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The Orville definitely feels more like a Star Trek show than Discovery. It might actually be because it's episode of the week - I think Star Trek does work best without a full on serial. DS9 style or even Stargate style is fine but it's hard to have a hopeful "What could happen here" thing with a story like they're doing in Discovery. I'm just shocked I like a Seth Mcfarlene vehicle so much.
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Dec 18, 2017 15:35
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DoggPickle posted:THIS made me laugh. I feel bad that I've attempted to catch the general "gist" of the comments from the ENTIRE orville thread at once and I was overwhelmed and I would just like some simple aggregate SA ideas about this thing. You seem much more focused on sussing out why we like it than whether you like it, while simultaneously giving the impression that you believe those two things are one and the same.
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Dec 18, 2017 15:37
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It hurts my brain because I know the people making it want it to be awesome and I have such a hopeful bone in my body!!
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almost every negative review of the Orville i've read has gotten hung up on this question of "what is this show?" as though it is doing something wrong by being a blend of genres, or that it's simply uninterpretable because of that. i honestly don't understand the issue. the show is what it is: serious and silly, happy and sad, whatever is appropriate for the situation at hand i didn't feel that any of the episodes aside from the pilot and the shuttle crash episode were "meh". most of the scripts were pretty smart, the characters are likeable, the humor is generally pretty good...what's not to enjoy? Jazerus fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 23:03
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People are just used to being told what things are.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:06
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It's literally just an updated Star Trek: The Next Generation with extra jokes. What's not to get? People forget that TNG had plenty of humor, this is just a more modern take on that humor and more of it.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:09
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Jazerus posted:almost every negative review of the Orville i've read has gotten hung up on this question of "what is this show?" as though it is doing something wrong by being a blend of genres, or that it's simply uninterpretable because of that. Some people, it seems, really like to know what they're going to get when they watch a piece of entertainment. And woe betide whomsoever serves them up anything different! EDIT: The strangest thing is that the crowd that cares so intensely about world building, themes, canon, etc. is also the ones who are loudest about wanting to avoid spoilers. Apparently the actual details of the plot must be kept secret at all cost, but the themes and setting must be so rigidly defined and adhered to that any alteration will cause a revolt. I'm noticing this big time with the new Star Wars too. PT6A fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 23:19
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PT6A posted:Some people, it seems, really like to know what they're going to get when they watch a piece of entertainment. And woe betide whomsoever serves them up anything different! "I must know what I'm going to feel ahead of time, and god forbid I feel multiple things!"
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Dec 18, 2017 23:22
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Taear posted:The Orville definitely feels more like a Star Trek show than Discovery. It might actually be because it's episode of the week - I think Star Trek does work best without a full on serial. i would kind of like to see a hybrid between the two; the orville has had a lot of scripts that could have spread their wings better in a 2-parter. the ideal star trek might be a series of mostly two-parters with some self-contained episodes
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Dec 18, 2017 23:25
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Jazerus posted:i would kind of like to see a hybrid between the two; the orville has had a lot of scripts that could have spread their wings better in a 2-parter. the ideal star trek might be a series of mostly two-parters with some self-contained episodes I think the entire run of the DCAU Justice League show was two or three parters and it worked fine and this is for a cartoon. This is a good format I think.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:29
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The Bloop posted:I think the entire run of the DCAU Justice League show was two or three parters and it worked fine and this is for a cartoon. This is a good format I think. They were also half-hours instead of hour episodes, though.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:34
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The whole "people aren't sure what they're getting when they watch The Orville" thing completely plays into what I've said over and over about the show: It's absolutely unpredictable. That's one of the main reasons I've come to love it so much; Every week I hold on tight for another round of "what the gently caress is going to happen next?!"
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Dec 19, 2017 00:25
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Jazerus posted:i would kind of like to see a hybrid between the two; the orville has had a lot of scripts that could have spread their wings better in a 2-parter. the ideal star trek might be a series of mostly two-parters with some self-contained episodes This is basically what Enterprise did for its 4th season and it worked out really well. Best season of the show, and all the 2 and 3 parters let the stories breath a little without getting bogged down in one long narrative. I hope we do see some of this in season 2 with hopefully a full season worth of episodes (though its understandable if 25 episodes isn't really on the cards in this day and age). The first season really felt like they were finding their footing with a "well we very well might never get a shot at this again so lets fit in as many star wars classic stories as we can".
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Dec 19, 2017 00:35
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DaveKap posted:The whole "people aren't sure what they're getting when they watch The Orville" thing completely plays into what I've said over and over about the show: It's absolutely unpredictable. That's one of the main reasons I've come to love it so much; Every week I hold on tight for another round of "what the gently caress is going to happen next?!" I agree. I had a pretty low opinion of Seth Mcfarlane. I never liked Family Guy or his movies but everything I read from him implied that he had a real love of Star Trek. I'm glad I gave it a try because (after an uncertain start) it is one of my favorite TV shows. My wife and I both love it because we both love Star Trek the Original Series and The Next Generation (and Stargate SG-1 - we even enjoyed the Fargate years). Tom Guycot posted:This is basically what Enterprise did for its 4th season and it worked out really well. Best season of the show, and all the 2 and 3 parters let the stories breath a little without getting bogged down in one long narrative. I hope we do see some of this in season 2 with hopefully a full season worth of episodes (though its understandable if 25 episodes isn't really on the cards in this day and age). The first season really felt like they were finding their footing with a "well we very well might never get a shot at this again so lets fit in as many star wars classic stories as we can". We quit watching after S1. The cheesecake shots with T'Pal were super creepy. Maybe we should give it another go.
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Dec 19, 2017 02:03
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Yeah having a toddler Moclan at least you don't have to ever worry about Legos on the floor they probably just eat the loving things. Now that is an evolutionary advantage. I bet they never had a ban on Kinder eggs either. Still holding out for the episode where Moclans get strung out on fast food. As for the person who felt this didn't quite hit the mark, all I can say is.. I get it. I love the show, but tonally it can be a bit weird and sometimes it feels like it loses impact because of that. But at the same time, because everyone in the cast at least attempts to be likeable and have their own personalities, you care about them and want them to succeed. That carries me through some of the more "floaty" scenes or episodes and lets me really enjoy the great ones. That means at worst I end up with a few lukewarm memories and a bunch of cool and interesting ones, overall. It even sort of helps the overall message of the show, being more about flawed but more or less good people you can relate to rather than the neo-human or very alien aliens you might find on other shows (even other trek).
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Dec 19, 2017 02:15
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Aleph Null posted:We quit watching after S1. The cheesecake shots with T'Pal were super creepy. Maybe we should give it another go. Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that?
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Dec 19, 2017 02:17
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Azhais posted:Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that? That's pretty much all I remember other than the Suliban and the guy from the future.
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Dec 19, 2017 02:21
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Azhais posted:Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that? 
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Dec 19, 2017 02:51
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DaveKap posted:.... I gotta start watching Enterprise! if you're horny watch porn and if you want star trek watch something good there is no combination of horniness and trekiness that makes star trek enterprise the right choice
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Dec 19, 2017 03:07
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Definitely watch it if you want the best Trek. All you have to do is skip all the episodes and watch TNG instead
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Dec 19, 2017 04:13
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Azhais posted:Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that? This is the only episode of the show I watched and it's also all I remember about it
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Dec 19, 2017 04:40
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Azhais posted:Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that? Yeah that was it, and yeah it was blatant nerdbait. Fortunately they didn't repeat it... much.
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Dec 19, 2017 04:41
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Gynovore posted:Yeah that was it, and yeah it was blatant nerdbait. Fortunately they didn't repeat it... much. But when they did... 
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Dec 19, 2017 04:56
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I feel like the dog makes it okay
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Dec 19, 2017 06:21
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What makes The Orville great is it's the kind of show you can just plop down and watch, and enjoy whatever unfolds, while also not just being some generic CBS procedural. You know the basics of each character and how they can play off of each other. It's very old-fashioned yet modernly self-aware. I hope it runs for the next ten years.
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Dec 19, 2017 06:22
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Laterite posted:What makes The Orville great is it's the kind of show you can just plop down and watch, and enjoy whatever unfolds, while also not just being some generic CBS procedural. You know the basics of each character and how they can play off of each other. It's very old-fashioned yet modernly self-aware. I hope it runs for the next ten years. Yeah. We've gotten subversively creepy sex comedy, a solid Prime Directive Episode, observed truly alien (2d) life, relationship drama, survival horror, serious commentary on gender issues, and more. Even when you spot what kind of episode its going to be, they still surprise you with the back half. I sure didn't expect the Krill episode to turn into "we come in peace, oh poo poo we're gonna kill you all instead, oh gently caress there's kids on board, you made enemies today".
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Dec 19, 2017 06:34
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Xibanya posted:iirc The King’s Speech rated R because the therapist discovers that Albert can speak without stuttering if he swears so there’s a scene where he says “gently caress” like ten times in a row and then there’s no swearing anywhere else in the film. That always struck me as pretty funny. I wound up liking this movie a lot more than I thought I would. Makes a nice companion to S1 of The Crown. Aleph Null posted:We quit watching after S1. The cheesecake shots with T'Pal were super creepy. Maybe we should give it another go. My partner and I are maybe 6-7 eps into S1 and it's similar. Finding it tolerable but not that great. I've seen pretty much the entirety of TNG, DS9, and VOY, but this is my first time watching ENT. On the one hand I like the lower tech, standoffishiness with the Vulcans, etc, but it's not really grabbing me much. OTOH it's available on Netflix and there's no Orville or Discovery for a while... Azhais posted:Wasn't S1E1 basically "oh no, T'Pal has radiation poisoning! better get her naked and rub her down with baby oil"? Or did they wait til 2 for that? Although to be fair to Enterprise...
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Dec 19, 2017 07:21
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Enterprise is fine and would have been regarded as "pretty ok" if it had found its legs sooner. It tried to do some things and had some arcs so it's certainly above voyager.
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Dec 19, 2017 07:46
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Baronjutter posted:Enterprise is fine and would have been regarded as "pretty ok" if it had found its legs sooner. It tried to do some things and had some arcs so it's certainly above voyager. On the other hand, it also has an episode where Captain Archer condemns an entire sapient species to death because of the writer's utter misunderstanding of how evolution and the Prime Directive are supposed to work.
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Dec 19, 2017 07:56
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Someone asked Frakes about the last episode of Enterprise at a Con a few years ago. He said that Bakula was nice and very understanding, but both he and Marina hated being basically stunt-cast to smother a series to death.
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Dec 19, 2017 08:07
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:On the other hand, it also has an episode where Captain Archer condemns an entire sapient species to death because of the writer's utter misunderstanding of how evolution and the Prime Directive are supposed to work. Voyager didn't understand evolution either on at least two very notable occasions.
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Dec 19, 2017 08:12
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I'll defend Enterprise. I really enjoyed it to the point I still come back to some random episodes of it, though theres no getting around the first couple seasons were a bit shakey, especially whenever they tried to do the stupid temporal cold war thing. That said, there are still a lot of episodes from those first 2 seasons I really enjoyed, specifically the ones where there so out of their depth and things don't work right. The low tech nature of it in general I loved, small ship, more submarine like in aesthetic, workman like uniforms, all the hazard warning labels on stuff, crew busting out welding masks and torches for repairs, no tractor beams, transporters everyone is scared to use (in one case screwing up and merging someone with plant matter) so they have to use shuttles and docking all the time, the overexcited nature of the humans doing stupid stuff like taking photos of themselves on planets while the other aliens kind of roll their eyes at them, Hoshi having to actually do a lot of translating work, lots of use of space suits, and a ship they're super proud of but is basically outclassed by every tugboat in the galaxy. The 3rd season also suffered from trying to make an arc cross a full 26 episodes or whatever, paired with the post 9/11 rah rah whatever it takes attitude thats still with us, but I still really liked it. Outside of a lot of the filler episodes theres some great stuff with fun continuity there, I really liked how by the end of the season the Enterprise had lost about 1/4 of the whole crew, were forced to rob a warp core part from innocent traders, and were basically held together by duct tape. It really felt like they had suffered and been through an ordeal, and all that worked great. The 4th season has a lot of really fun 2 and 3 part episodes, some more goodness with Shran, and getting to see the tellerites again, plus, for however unnecessary it may have been, I really appreciated what a good job all things considered they did trying to explain away the bad 60's klingon makeup. It doesn't feel cheap. The human first group, Spiner's great little 3 part arc, and more stuff that I just really liked from the season. Its really a crime it got canceled when it did, the 5th season was supposed to bring us mother fuckin' Shran as a main cast member, show those cat aliens for the first time in live action, and give us the start of the romulan war. Such a waste. Anyways, I still hold that ENT is underrated, and I really enjoy it.
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Dec 19, 2017 12:30
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Kurieg posted:Someone asked Frakes about the last episode of Enterprise at a Con a few years ago. He said that Bakula was nice and very understanding, but both he and Marina hated being basically stunt-cast to smother a series to death. A Love Letter to the fans!
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Dec 19, 2017 13:32
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I still love the episode where Archer's dog pisses on a holy tree and causes a diplomatic incident. The resolution is a little weak but that setup is surprisingly great and overall the episode manages to portray the whole thing well. It's just such a weird episode in general but man did it do a great job of establishing characters and portray diplomacy as the shitshow it often is. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 14:00
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Mokinokaro posted:I still love the episode where Archer's dog pisses on a holy tree and causes a diplomatic incident. Along with that, I always enjoyed the episode where they offended a race who stormed off their ship because they invited them to the captains mess to eat dinner and it turned out to them eating food in front of other people was as vulgar as just loving in front of a crowd of guests. The show really did a great job showing just how lacking in any and all grace and tact the humans of that time were when first meeting all these species.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:30
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Aleph Null posted:Voyager didn't understand evolution either on at least two very notable occasions. It's basically canon that natural selection doesn't exist in the Star Trek universe. Instead, evolution is actually a determinist process based on fate.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:40
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It's explicitly stated that billions of years ago, planets were seeded by some mysterious progenitor race with a retrovirus or some other form of DNA manipulation which resulted in the convergent evolution of humanoid forehead aliens across the galaxy. There was a whole two parter about it in TNG.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:46
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Kurieg posted:Someone asked Frakes about the last episode of Enterprise at a Con a few years ago. He said that Bakula was nice and very understanding, but both he and Marina hated being basically stunt-cast to smother a series to death. It was pretty messed up of Viacom to put a gun to their heads and make them do it.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:49
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Dietrich posted:It's explicitly stated that billions of years ago, planets were seeded by some mysterious progenitor race with a retrovirus or some other form of DNA manipulation which resulted in the convergent evolution of humanoid forehead aliens across the galaxy. There was a whole two parter about it in TNG. Some day they shall return to reap foreheads for their vast collection.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:52
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Tom Guycot posted:Along with that, I always enjoyed the episode where they offended a race who stormed off their ship because they invited them to the captains mess to eat dinner and it turned out to them eating food in front of other people was as vulgar as just loving in front of a crowd of guests. I believe that was the same episode but different aliens.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:54
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Dietrich posted:It's explicitly stated that billions of years ago, planets were seeded by some mysterious progenitor race with a retrovirus or some other form of DNA manipulation which resulted in the convergent evolution of humanoid forehead aliens across the galaxy. There was a whole two parter about it in TNG. Yes. That's exibit A. In Voyager, Threshold demonstrates that humans will eventually evolve into giant salamanders. Rather tha. This being the result of environmental pressures, Tom Paris has to find a plant to suit his newly evolved physiology. Also in Voyager, not inly did dinosaurs evolve be into humanoids, but Janeway was able to look at a hadrosaur and tell the computer to "simulate 64 million years of evolution" and it produced a humanoid indentical to the ones they had just encountered. And then TNG and ENT both have EPS where prime directive non-interference is concerned with the predetermined fate of another civilization.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:57
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