|
Best producer/showrunner? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Verity Lambert |
|
30 | 15.31% |
| Barry Letts |
|
7 | 3.57% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
|
32 | 16.33% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
|
6 | 3.06% |
| Russell T Davies |
|
33 | 16.84% |
| Steven Moffat |
|
50 | 25.51% |
| Chris Chibnall (I am from the future) |
|
38 | 19.39% |
| Total: | 196 votes | ||
|
I just bought a thing https://www.etsy.com/listing/547281...ef=sr_gallery_2
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 17:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:54 |
|
|
This is a pro click.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 18:08
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:This is a pro click. And also shows what would have happened if Moffat had anyone to answer to in a script editing capacity. The whole middle section of that final speech would've been cut, and it's better for it. Nothing sums up Twelve as well as "Always TRY to be nice, but never fail to be KIND!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 19:23
|
|
|
I hear ya but I dunno man, that middle part has been getting a lot of flack for some reason but if Twelve wanted to regeneration babble about children understanding his real name if their hearts and the stars were in the right place, then goddamnit, let the man have his say.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 19:26
|
|
|
I liked the whole bit. I thought it was sweet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 20:48
|
|
|
Each time I rewatch it I like his whole rambly speech more.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 20:52
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I hear ya but I dunno man, that middle part has been getting a lot of flack for some reason but if Twelve wanted to regeneration babble about children understanding his real name if their hearts and the stars were in the right place, then goddamnit, let the man have his say. Moffat said he took that from something Capaldi said, so it's a tribute to him as Doctor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 21:18
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:I hear ya but I dunno man, that middle part has been getting a lot of flack for some reason but if Twelve wanted to regeneration babble about children understanding his real name if their hearts and the stars were in the right place, then goddamnit, let the man have his say. I think someone in this thread said the stuff about children understanding the Doctor's name is something Capaldi himself said to someone who asked what the Doctor's real name is. I don't know if that's true but just based on what I have seen Capaldi say (e.g. the Christmas card a few posts back) I 100% believe he either fought to keep it in against the wishes of anyone who wanted to shorten the big speech, or wrote it himself and demanded its inclusion. According to this blog post which transcribes a Doctor Who magazine article he seems to have had some creative input in the show, including his final scenes. Anyway, it's weird to see those lines come in for a bit of a kicking, they're the only ones I actually like. The rest of the speech is just repeating from when the Doctor was saying goodbye to Clara or ranting at the Master about how ace he is because he's kind. Give me a nod to the show being for the kiddies any day
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 21:23
|
|
|
Your Boy Fancy posted:It almost felt like Oxygen was a pendulum course correction. Goddamn Oxygen was such a great episode. "Like all workers everywhere... we're fighting the Suits."
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 21:29
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Anyway, it's weird to see those lines come in for a bit of a kicking, they're the only ones I actually like. The rest of the speech is just repeating from when the Doctor was saying goodbye to Clara hmm i wonder why that might be the case
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 22:30
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Anyway, it's weird to see those lines come in for a bit of a kicking, they're the only ones I actually like. The rest of the speech is just repeating from when the Doctor was saying goodbye to Clara or ranting at the Master about how ace he is because he's kind. Give me a nod to the show being for the kiddies any day Yeah, I like that Capaldi was really on board with the role being an icon for kids. He seems like a sweet man.  Perhaps that part of the speech will be a grower, I imagine I'll rewatch that scene again at some point. I don't know how I feel about that speech as a whole, really. Hit & miss, I think.
Stabbatical fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 29, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 22:43
|
|
|
It's less about the sentiment, which is lovely, and more about structure and pacing. You notice that the "Laugh hard, run fast, be kind" line basically repeats the first section in a shorter fashion? That's because the name section completely diverts from those ideas as the main thesis of the scene and so Moffat has to remind us what the point was before wrapping it up. Basically, imagine if right after 'children can hear it', the regeneration happened. It would feel abrupt, wouldn't it? But if it happened at any of the other lines people have suggested, it would feel like a good coda. It's the definition of something that would be trimmed in a second draft. And not all things that are cut are cut because they're bad in isolation (hence why deleted scenes being on DVDs is a thing) but because they hurt the piece overall when place into the context of the whole work. They're sweet lines, delivered and shot well... and they kill the pace.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 22:49
|
|
|
So they did mean to reference that back when they were climbing down the chains to the TARDIS. I love how Capaldi is a big ol' geek like the rest of us. Classic. I really hope he does some Big Finish. The Twelfth Doctor's reign needs some bulking out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 23:12
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:hmm i wonder why that might be the case Because Steven Moffat sucks poo poo and should be killed!!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
2house2fly posted:Because Steven Moffat sucks poo poo and should be killed!!! It's because the whole point of seasons 8 and 9 is that Clara is just as deserving of the Doctor's life as the Doctor is, and that "Clara Who" is valid. Duh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
Carbon dioxide posted:Hah. I couldn't help but notice that when Eleven was recording his message for Clara about dealing with Twelve, he said "The man you're with" when talking about Twelve. As if it was completely obvious that he'd regenerate into a man. Capaldi hinted at the future being female a couple eps before his regeneration too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:It's because the whole point of seasons 8 and 9 is that Clara is just as deserving of the Doctor's life as the Doctor is, and that "Clara Who" is valid. You're really hung up on this bad plot point huh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 03:52
|
|
|
It's a good plot point and Clara owns.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:00
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:It's a good plot point and Clara owns. I've never felt closer to you
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:01
|
|
|
clara isnt as good as donna. donna deserved it more
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:31
|
|
|
Soothing Vapors posted:I've never felt closer to you This is how we get restraining orders. corn in the bible posted:clara isnt as good as donna. donna deserved it more ain't that the goddamned truth
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:33
|
|
|
corn in the bible posted:clara isnt as good as donna. donna deserved it more Clara is actually much, much better than Donna. For example, Clara did not let a moron wipe her memory
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:41
|
|
|
we don't need to pit clara and donna against each other. they, like evelyn smythe (hallowed be her name), are extremely cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
Clara was good and cool, and I don't think the Twentieth* Doctor's last monologue had anything to do with that though. ___ *1) William Hartnell/Richard Hurndall/David Bradley 2) Patrick Troughton/Frazier Hines 3) Jon Pertwee and various other Pertwees 3a) David Warner 4) Tom Baker 5) Peter Davison 6) Colin Baker 7) Sylvester McCoy 8) Paul McGann 9C) Rowan Atkinson 10C) Richard E. Grant 11C) Jim Broadbent 12C) Hugh Grant 13C) Joanna Lumley 8W) John Hurt 9) Christopher Eccleston 10) David Tennant 10a) David Tennant 11) Matt Smith 12) Peter Capaldi 13) Jodie Whittaker
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:15
|
|
|
docbeard posted:I don't think the Twentieth* Doctor's last monologue had anything to do with that though. You've missed out at least 11 I can think of
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:18
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:You've missed out at least 11 I can think of Oh, yeah, I thought of more after I wrote it. (Peter Cushing for one, all the ones from the other Unbounds that I haven't listened to, probably some others.) The really sad thing is that was more or less from memory. (Would have been entirely from memory except I blanked on Jim Broadbent's name.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:22
|
|
|
docbeard posted:Oh, yeah, I thought of more after I wrote it. (Peter Cushing for one, all the ones from the other Unbounds that I haven't listened to, probably some others.) The big ones you missed out on were the Valeyard (two actors) and the eight Morbius doctors (the other one I was thinking of was Adrian Gibbs, who played The Watcher)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:27
|
|
|
Also Richard E Grant should have another entry for when he was the 9th Doctor.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:30
|
|
|
Clara was not cool and quite bad and the quality of the show took a mysterious noticeable dip whenever she was anywhere near it. See: the season where the only good episode was Heaven Sent, the worst moment of which was his dream Clara giving him a hug, and this entire last season that was really good (2/3 Monks episodes aside) and didn't have her in it at all, other than the Christmas special which was bad again. It's not even her character in particular that I can see, It's just... Is Clara in it? Then it probably sucks for several unrelated reasons. I do also hate her stupid verbal tics though, they really put me off going back to Mummy and Flatline.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:44
|
|
|
Isn't Nicholas Briggs doing Ninth audios?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:46
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Isn't Nicholas Briggs doing Ninth audios? So far only one box set. And they hired a dude who does impressions of Tennant and Smith to do the 10/11 sets, so maybe future 9 sets will have someone else? I love Briggs to pieces, but his 9 is poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 05:55
|
|
|
I liked Clara but "actually, turns out you can" is kind of an unsatisfying resolution to "companion behaves like the Doctor and it eventually catches up with them because people can't survive the way immortal space wizards do" which was otherwise a really interesting development for her after Danny.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 09:04
|
|
|
Thinking about it that's kind of the same message as "listen to the voices in your head" from Forest of the Night isn't it. Less directly applicable to reality of course.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 12:21
|
|
|
The last lesson Doctor Who should ever teach is that humans are too fragile to do good and that you should leave the heroism to the immortal space wizards.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 12:22
|
|
|
I'm glad that the doctor was willing to break time law for a friend but not for his wife
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 13:13
|
|
|
remusclaw posted:The last lesson Doctor Who should ever teach is that humans are too fragile to do good and that you should leave the heroism to the immortal space wizards. "All good in the universe comes from the Doctor" was another bit of the Christmas I wasn't a huge fan of.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 13:23
|
|
|
Dabir posted:Clara was not cool and quite bad and the quality of the show took a mysterious noticeable dip whenever she was anywhere near it. See: the season where the only good episode was Heaven Sent, the worst moment of which was his dream Clara giving him a hug, and this entire last season that was really good (2/3 Monks episodes aside) and didn't have her in it at all, other than the Christmas special which was bad again. It's not even her character in particular that I can see, It's just... Is Clara in it? Then it probably sucks for several unrelated reasons. The worst moment of Heaven Sent was when they either didn't have time or couldn't figure out how to establish that the rooms are all timelooped and reset themselves, so they just had the Doctor say that it is so. Also series 8 is better than series 10
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
Here's the thing with Clara. Like, honestly. Clara was only a character in season 8. She had the school, she had Danny, she had aspirations beyond the Doctor and a character arc Before season 8 she's a glorified plot device that wildly changes from episode to episode to fit whatever is needed After season 8 she's just a confused mess because Moffat got so wrapped up in his SET UP THINGS THAT DON'T MATTER IN THE BLUNTEST WAY POSSIBLE gimmick of the season that she didn't actually get a proper character arc. The signs were pointing to her dying and being suicidal from early on but then that didn't actually happen but then it did but not in the way it was building up to and all of the build up of the Doctor traveling with her not always being the same chronologically was just kind of tossed And she as a character regressed hard with only flashes of her actual personality she found in 8. She went back to The Every Companion, Buy One Today And then she gets an overwrought and overblown death scene that is just comical and not at all appropriate only for the solid three minutes of her dying to get undone the episode after we spend an entire episode mourning her. Basically the idea of Clara is great. The reality of Clara is flawed, confused and kind of a mess.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 16:39
|
|
|
loving up Clara is emblematic of Moffatt stretching until he snapped creatively. Too many balls in the air, and when your calling card is clever puzzle boxes and the like, you can’t allow yourself to get distracted. Instead, both here and in Sherlock, he’d get some threads going and forget to finish them off. So everything came undone everywhere. Dude needs a rest, then a chance to write one good episode a year in whatever place he lands. Or do season two of Jekyll. Whichever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 17:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 15:54 |
|
|
Moffat has literally never given a good payoff to his Clever Hints. Like, not even once, in his entire career.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 17:40
|
|