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What's a good reasonably low-price LCD TV? I'm moving into a condo that has a heavy duty mount on the wall, the current owner is taking his 75" TV, and leaving the mount. I have a 40" LCD, but I want to upgrade to around the 60" 4k vicinity, and keep it under $800 or so.
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Jan 19, 2018 02:55
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Godinster posted:I wasn't particularly looking at one or another. From what I gathered the only difference between the B7 and C7 this year was Atmos support (I don't care) and the Bezel (I don't care). I'd almost certainly have gone for the B7 if I waited unless it was a significant difference on the 2018 models For 2018 there is an actual difference between the B8 and C8 so if you care about image processing read some reviews / reports, otherwise I'd say jump on the good deal on the 2017 model
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Jan 19, 2018 03:31
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Godinster posted:Is there any reason to wait for the 2018 LG OLEDs if I can get a 65" B7 for $2950ish Canadian? I'm using a 5-6 year old mid-tier Samsung plasma and the advent of 4K/HDR Linux ISOs flooding the internet right now has my interest growing at maybe upgrading. I think the support for black frame insertion is the biggest new feature of the 2018 models, supposedly makes motion handling a lot better.
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Jan 19, 2018 04:50
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Incessant Excess posted:I think the support for black frame insertion is the biggest new feature of the 2018 models, supposedly makes motion handling a lot better. But it will come at the cost of even lower brightness, which is already an issue for OLED. Unless they're massively improving peak brightness, the only time you 'll use that is if your TV room is as dark as a theater.
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Jan 19, 2018 06:56
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defaultluser posted:But it will come at the cost of even lower brightness, which is already an issue for OLED. I think peak brightness is getting a 20% bump but don't quote me for that.
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Jan 19, 2018 07:04
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Can someone explain to me how local dimming works exactly? I know the basics (TV can dim individual parts of the backlight, not just the entire thing at once) but I'm curious when exactly it activates. Is it just for completely black sections of the screen, like the black bars of a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie for example, or does it also work when you're, say, playing a racing game and a dark blue car drives past you?
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Jan 19, 2018 09:29
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Incessant Excess posted:Can someone explain to me how local dimming works exactly? I know the basics (TV can dim individual parts of the backlight, not just the entire thing at once) but I'm curious when exactly it activates. Is it just for completely black sections of the screen, like the black bars of a 2.35:1 aspect ratio movie for example, or does it also work when you're, say, playing a racing game and a dark blue car drives past you? Once it's active it's always active, all over the screen. There is a grid of backlight squares, usually at least 50-60 of them but less than 30 on some small sets and over 1000 on the latest top end sets. The processor is constantly adjusting the brightness of each square of backlighting to match the content. Here's a Panasonic marketing video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAOHsWJ0gIY&t=17s Here's a Sony demonstration showing exactly what the backlight is doing on a unit with over 1,000 local dimming zones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cxXYt_9R7A
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Jan 19, 2018 13:20
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Thanks, interesting stuff!
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Jan 19, 2018 14:06
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defaultluser posted:But it will come at the cost of even lower brightness, which is already an issue for OLED. Brightness is not an issue for oled. Oleds get plenty bright and should even with black frame insertion. Now they dont get as bright as some lcds but calling it an issue makes it sound like they are too dim to watch.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:48
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I believe current OLEDs can reach about half the brightness of top tier LEDs, that's still a pretty significant difference.
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Jan 19, 2018 15:55
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I still have yet to see a TV where BFI was actually useful and not headache inducing.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:01
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OLEDs definitely make going to the theater less fun, as you can’t help but sneer at the inherent poor black level due to the limitations of projection.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:04
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I find it quite pleasant on my Sony, still gets more than bright enough too but I tend to watch in dark environments. 
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Jan 19, 2018 16:05
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Would black frame insertion help a ton with OLED burn in?
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Jan 19, 2018 16:05
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Incessant Excess posted:I believe current OLEDs can reach about half the brightness of top tier LEDs, that's still a pretty significant difference. I can't really say I've ever noticed a difference, even in peak HDR stuff. LED upstairs, OLED downstairs and old Panasonic plasma in my workout room.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:05
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Zero VGS posted:Would black frame insertion help a ton with OLED burn in? No, it only helps with motion. If you're watching content with the same average brightness there will be the same average burn-in. EL BROMANCE posted:OLEDs definitely make going to the theater less fun, as you can’t help but sneer at the inherent poor black level due to the limitations of projection. https://news.samsung.com/global/inside-look-samsungs-cinema-led-screen-a-next-generation-theater-experience
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Jan 19, 2018 16:22
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Current top tier LCD TVs also get 3 or 4 times as bright as the average LCD TVs from a couple years ago. So being half as bright as that is still brighter than what most people are used to. Also I use black frame insertion on my Panasonic plasma in a dark room when watching movies. The flicker is noticable but it's like an actual movie projector and once you are used to it motion looks better with it on. As an aside VR headset use OLED screens at 90fps and they use something similar to black frame insertion, only they show an image at full 90hz but keep the screens black for most of the time instead of sample and hold. It has to do with persistence of vision.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:31
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Incessant Excess posted:I believe current OLEDs can reach about half the brightness of top tier LEDs, that's still a pretty significant difference. The half brightness of an oled (compared to a top tier lcd) is still incredibly bright though.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:44
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Zero VGS posted:Would black frame insertion help a ton with OLED burn in? Oled burn in is cumulative. Blacking out the panel doesn't change this.
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Jan 19, 2018 16:45
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Every piece of evidence on OLED burn in points to it being straight up cumulative. Having a bright red logo on the screen for 300 hours is going to have the same effect if it was 300 hours straight or 1 hour a night for 300 days. OLED light level seems like it has influence on how many hours it takes to get burn in. Less overall brightness, more time on the clock. Saturated red, yellow, and orange appear to be the worst. The theory is that the white OLEDs aren't as bright in the red part of the spectrum and thus have to be driven harder behind the red color filter. White is pretty robust by itself since there's no filter, but not immune. White burn in is less likely to show up in normal content though since it shouldn't show coloration on anything other than a near white screen at high brightness. 50% grey so far seems to be completely fine indefinitely. rtings has over 2200 hours of their burn in test done now and their grey portion of the test fails to show up on any slide. White, even 50% opacity, is showing some yellow discoloration by this point. What is unknown about OLED burn in right now is if panel lottery has anything to do with it and the level of influence brightness has. One other good bit of news about the test is they now have hundreds of hours of letterboxing on the TV and it's showing no signs that differential aging is happening.
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Jan 19, 2018 17:13
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Incessant Excess posted:I think the support for black frame insertion is the biggest new feature of the 2018 models, supposedly makes motion handling a lot better. TomR posted:Also I use black frame insertion on my Panasonic plasma in a dark room when watching movies. The flicker is noticable but it's like an actual movie projector and once you are used to it motion looks better with it on. As an aside VR headset use OLED screens at 90fps and they use something similar to black frame insertion, only they show an image at full 90hz but keep the screens black for most of the time instead of sample and hold. It has to do with persistence of vision. While I'm happily surprised there's going to be OLED TVs with black frame insertion, I think flicker at 60hz is unacceptable and black frame insertion doesn't look good unless the content matches the refresh rate. So at the moment it's only good for PC gaming, VR and super high fidelity web browsing. I'm looking for a 50''+ easy to use TV for my mom. I'm guessing 120hz would be best for seamless transition to 24fps content, unless there's a TV that can automatically change refresh rate. It looks like a lot of the newer TVs can do 120hz at 1080p but I'm having trouble finding exact specifications. The staff at electronics stores are completely useless in this regard.
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Jan 19, 2018 18:56
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Check out the motion tests on rtings. They break down 24fps motion handling. Long story short, most can do native cadence when fed 24hz signal. Most fall down when given 24fps over 60hz. The Sonys are usually excellent. Set Motionflow to True Cinema and Cinemotion to High and the drat thing will sniff out native cadence delivered by smoke signals for display without motion interpolation. LG is a bit more hit or miss. The 2016 models can only do reverse telecine on interlaced input. The 2017 models do both progressive and interlaced, but it's still not quite as adaptable as the Sony (I've seen my X900e get native cadence from 2:1:1 30hz sources while most others can only handle 3:2). Vizio and TCL mainly only handle things if they get native input.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:13
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EL BROMANCE posted:OLEDs definitely make going to the theater less fun, as you can’t help but sneer at the inherent poor black level due to the limitations of projection. Get off my lawn etc 
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Jan 19, 2018 19:13
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EL BROMANCE posted:OLEDs definitely make going to the theater less fun, as you can’t help but sneer at the inherent poor black level due to the limitations of projection. If there's a Dolby Cinema in your area I highly recommend it. Totally worth the extra $3.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:16
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None near me according to the Dolby Labs page, but given they mostly seem to be AMC cinemas and we have a few here, maybe one will be upgraded sooner or later.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:20
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pwn posted:DCP has made going to the theater less fun because film just natively handled all this poo poo while the digital world is still playing catch-up. Eh. One thing that struck me when I went to see the Hateful Eight in 70mm is I forgot just how much drat flicker is in film projection. The black levels also still weren't at OLED levels. The only way you are going to get that contrast is with insane brightness from laser projection and special screen material to minimize ambient light reflection. It sucks that there's no Dolby Cinema within hundreds of miles of me.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:22
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For the record my TV only does black frame insertion for 24fps. I don't know what BFI looks like at 60fps.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:31
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bull3964 posted:I've seen my X900e get native cadence from 2:1:1 30hz sources
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Jan 19, 2018 19:36
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Mercrom posted:That sounds awesome. That one costs a bit though. I'll check rtings for cheaper alternatives. Yeah, blew my mind when I fired up the FXX app which I know is a native 30 hz stream and didn't get the horrible judder I see in other places.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:38
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Mercrom posted:That sounds awesome. That one costs a bit though. I'll check rtings for cheaper alternatives. I think the next step down is the X850E which features the same image processing chip and thus the same motion handling capabilities. You miss out on the direct backlight and the full array local dimming that comes with it tho, which is a pretty big deal feature.
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Jan 19, 2018 19:56
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Incessant Excess posted:I think the next step down is the X850E which features the same image processing chip and thus the same motion handling capabilities. You miss out on the direct backlight and the full array local dimming that comes with it tho, which is a pretty big deal feature. I looked at the 850e in store and honestly it looked pretty drat close to the 900e that was above it, ultimately decided the 900e was worth the cost difference since the 75" 850e uses an IPS panel and the full backlighting helps when it's darker.
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Jan 19, 2018 20:55
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Cat Army
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qirex posted:If there's a Dolby Cinema in your area I highly recommend it. Totally worth the extra $3. Oh man, there's one of these 15 minutes way, I know what I'm doing this weekend.
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Jan 20, 2018 02:14
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It's wild that even high end TVs these days still don't have gigabit ethernet. I've gotten buffering on some 4K HDR films and had to switch over to Wireless AC to get them to play properly (on my LG B7).
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Jan 20, 2018 16:21
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There's nothing streaming that would tax a 100mbs connection.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:29
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Sphyre posted:It's wild that even high end TVs these days still don't have gigabit ethernet. I've gotten buffering on some 4K HDR films and had to switch over to Wireless AC to get them to play properly (on my LG B7). It wasn't your ethernet causing the problem. It would have been something else.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:31
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bull3964 posted:There's nothing streaming that would tax a 100mbs connection. I'm not talking about anything from a streaming platform, i'm talking about untouched H265 video from UHD blu-rays which do hit >100mbit bitrate at peak.
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Jan 20, 2018 16:38
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Sphyre posted:I'm not talking about anything from a streaming platform, i'm talking about untouched H265 video from UHD blu-rays which do hit >100mbit bitrate at peak. What player are you using for that?
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Jan 20, 2018 16:40
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Dogen posted:What player are you using for that? The inbuilt LG DLNA video player, the WebOS plex client is pretty bad 
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Jan 20, 2018 16:56
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bull3964 posted:There's nothing streaming that would tax a 100mbs connection. Some TV apps connect to your local network though, and in theory a remuxed UHD could eclipse that. E: doh, replying to older post that’s been covered since.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:08
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bull3964 posted:The theory is that the white OLEDs aren't as bright in the red part of the spectrum and thus have to be driven harder behind the red color filter. My guess is that it is just that the OLED materials aren't great optical materials (they can be directly coated on glass though, and thus are cheaper per area when compared to the higher performance inorganic LEDs in lightbulbs--cost is the only reason why there is no 'InorganicLED' display technology) and they degrade over time. I think this reliability issue is what held OLED back from the marketplace for a long time.
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Jan 20, 2018 17:12
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