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Crowsbeak posted:Wronng like but then there is this. What are you trying to communicate by your link?
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Feb 15, 2018 06:07
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Baron Porkface posted:Why are you holing Obamacare Democrats responsible for the actions of Republicans who blocked any more robust healthcare reform and the future actions of republicans who will attempt to destroy Obamacare? Question: On the Amendment (Dorgan Amdt. No. 2793 ) Statement of Purpose: To provide for the importation of prescription drugs. YEAs ---51 Alexander (R-TN) Begich (D-AK) Bennet (D-CO) Bingaman (D-NM) Bond (R-MO) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Coburn (R-OK) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX) Crapo (R-ID) DeMint (R-SC) Dorgan (D-ND) Feingold (D-WI) Feinstein (D-CA) Franken (D-MN) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Harkin (D-IA) Hutchison (R-TX) Johanns (R-NE) Johnson (D-SD) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) LeMieux (R-FL) Leahy (D-VT) Lincoln (D-AR) McCain (R-AZ) McCaskill (D-MO) McConnell (R-KY) Merkley (D-OR) Murkowski (R-AK) Nelson (D-FL) Nelson (D-NE) Pryor (D-AR) Risch (R-ID) Sanders (I-VT) Sessions (R-AL) Shaheen (D-NH) Shelby (R-AL) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (D-PA) Stabenow (D-MI) Thune (R-SD) Udall (D-NM) Vitter (R-LA) Webb (D-VA) Wicker (R-MS) Wyden (D-OR) NAYs ---48 Akaka (D-HI) Barrasso (R-WY) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Bennett (R-UT) Brownback (R-KS) Bunning (R-KY) Burr (R-NC) Burris (D-IL) Cantwell (D-WA) Cardin (D-MD) Carper (D-DE) Casey (D-PA) Chambliss (R-GA) Cochran (R-MS) Dodd (D-CT) Durbin (D-IL) Ensign (R-NV) Enzi (R-WY) Gillibrand (D-NY) Gregg (R-NH) Hagan (D-NC) Hatch (R-UT) Inhofe (R-OK) Inouye (D-HI) Isakson (R-GA) Kaufman (D-DE) Kerry (D-MA) Kirk (D-MA) Kyl (R-AZ) Landrieu (D-LA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lugar (R-IN) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Roberts (R-KS) Rockefeller (D-WV) Schumer (D-NY) Tester (D-MT) Udall (D-CO) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (D-VA) Whitehouse (D-RI) Even though the amendment passed 51 to 48, thanks to a majority of GOP senators' votes, Reid struck the amendment because it wasn't filibuster-proof, even though a majority of GOP senators voted for the measure. Real reason it was withdrawn from the ACA: Because Obama had already made a secret deal with PhRMA & Billy Tauzin to kill such a measure. Note that all three Dem Senate leaders at the time voted nay on the amendment, as did the majority of Democrats. And here we are today, in the land of $600 epipens and $100/week for Tamiflu, thanks to
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Feb 15, 2018 06:11
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So the Republican congress is going to pass prescription imports any day now right?
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Feb 15, 2018 06:18
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Baron Porkface posted:So the Republican congress is going to pass prescription imports any day now right? You really need to get over your 5 year old view of the world. You think because the Republicans are Bad Guys that the Democrats must be Good Guys.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:23
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WampaLord posted:You really need to get over your 5 year old view of the world. You think because the Republicans are Bad Guys that the Democrats must be Good Guys. Their just a sociopath and it's better to remember that such people are who rule the Democrats.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:33
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WampaLord posted:You really need to get over your 5 year old view of the world. You think because the Republicans are Bad Guys that the Democrats must be Good Guys. On many issues they are the good guys and you should vote for them with no hesitation until whatever full communism now party you support actually succeeds at being a realistic contender in any race anywhere.
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Feb 15, 2018 06:50
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:On many issues they are the good guys and you should vote for them with no hesitation until whatever full communism now party you support actually succeeds at being a realistic contender in any race anywhere. You realize that under this logic, a "full communism now party" (nice strawman of my position, btw) would never ever come to pass because we're forced to keep voting for the "good guys" as they become worse and worse at actually doing good things. I voted D in 2016, I'm going to probably vote D for my entire life, would y'all stop acting like yelling at individual people for not blowing the Dems enough actually accomplishes anything when it comes to an entire country's votes? You're literally just mad when the Dems get criticized, rightly or wrongly. It's terribly sad. ETA: I voted for Patrick Motherfucking Murphy, don't you dare give me poo poo about waiting for full communism now. WampaLord fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 06:55
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:On many issues they are the good guys and you should vote for them with no hesitation until whatever full communism now party you support actually succeeds at being a realistic contender in any race anywhere. You do realize that people who criticize the Democrats from the left still tend to turn out for the Dems, right? 
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Feb 15, 2018 07:28
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Riptor posted:I fully support mandatory voting, provided it's a 1 for this thread
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Feb 15, 2018 07:43
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Majorian posted:You do realize that people who criticize the Democrats from the left still tend to turn out for the Dems, right? I'm not convinced of that. This thread, for example.
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Feb 15, 2018 07:47
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I’m sorry for you that you are evil, Baron Porkface. That must be a hard information to assimilate and accept.
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Feb 15, 2018 07:55
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Baron Porkface posted:I'm not convinced of that. This thread, for example. Well, I think that’s probably not the best barometer for that sort of thing. The fact that only 12% of Bernie voters didn’t turn out for Clinton, while somewhere in the vicinity of 25% of Clinton ‘08 supporters refused to vote for Obama. It’s almost as if...centrist Dems...are less interested in social AND economic justice than leftists? 
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Feb 15, 2018 07:55
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Flowers For Algeria posted:I’m sorry for you that you are evil, Baron Porkface. That must be a hard information to assimilate and accept. nuh-uh you are evil.
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Feb 15, 2018 08:11
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Majorian posted:Well, I think that’s probably not the best barometer for that sort of thing. The fact that only 12% of Bernie voters didn’t turn out for Clinton, while somewhere in the vicinity of 25% of Clinton ‘08 supporters refused to vote for Obama. But I thought Obama was the EEEEEvil centrist. edit: and Turmp is an enormously different candidate from McCain. and Bernie supporters raged across the internet spreading anti-clinton propaganda I certainly don't remember that in 2008 after the convention. Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 08:15
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Baron Porkface posted:edit: and Turmp is an enormously different candidate from McCain. and Bernie supporters raged across the internet spreading anti-clinton propaganda I certainly don't remember that in 2008 after the convention. lol
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Feb 15, 2018 09:45
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Baron Porkface posted:But I thought Obama was the EEEEEvil centrist. Is that because your brain got damaged the day after Obama got the nomination
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Feb 15, 2018 09:50
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Crane Fist posted:Is that because your brain got damaged the day after Obama got the nomination Social media wasn't as prevalent back then and it was 10 eyars ago, I could just not be remembering. Are you able to quantify the anti-obama propaganda?
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Feb 15, 2018 09:52
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Baron Porkface posted:Social media wasn't as prevalent back then and it was 10 eyars ago, I could just not be remembering. hillaryis44
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Feb 15, 2018 10:00
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Ok now my memory is jogged
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Feb 15, 2018 10:08
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IIRC, the PUMAs are all hardcore Trumpers now.
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Feb 15, 2018 11:29
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Majorian posted:You do realize that people who criticize the Democrats from the left still tend to turn out for the Dems, right? Yeah right, they mostly turn out for smugly telling you they didn't vote and for rushing into every conversation they can find to parrot every republican fox news talking point they can manage to sand down enough to pretend they are saying it because they are actually so woke and leftist
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Feb 15, 2018 13:38
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah right, they mostly turn out for smugly telling you they didn't vote and for rushing into every conversation they can find to parrot every republican fox news talking point they can manage to sand down enough to pretend they are saying it because they are actually so woke and leftist You live in a strange strange world I defy you to actually provide any significant example of a leftist parroting a republican fox news talking point
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Feb 15, 2018 13:42
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah right, they mostly turn out for smugly telling you they didn't vote and for rushing into every conversation they can find to parrot every republican fox news talking point they can manage to sand down enough to pretend they are saying it because they are actually so woke and leftist Meeting evidence-founded argument with unfounded accusations of leftists being crypto-republicans is not a particularly effective strategy
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Feb 15, 2018 13:46
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Flowers For Algeria posted:You live in a strange strange world I'm guessing it's along the lines of 'Hillary Clinton ran a bad campaign'.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:10
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Samantha Bee liked to point out that Bernie Bros and Trumpists were getting their information from the same place (despite having wildly different ideologies) during the election.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:18
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If you leftists actually vote for the lesser evil, why do I keep insisting that you don't?
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Feb 15, 2018 14:22
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Radish posted:Samantha Bee liked to point out that Bernie Bros and Trumpists were getting their information from the same place (despite having wildly different ideologies) during the election. Interesting ideas coming from a segregationist.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:23
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Flowers For Algeria posted:I defy you to actually provide any significant example of a leftist parroting a republican fox news talking point Provide me with any significant proof that people that take up the "leftist" label as an excuse to spam the same few slogans to every thread on every website are actually meaningfully particularly "leftist" or any more actually progressive than people that don't do that.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:33
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If the dem fanboys were half as interested in turning the party into something that people actually want to vote for than they are in making excuses for the incompetence and corruption of the dem establishment, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:33
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Cerebral Bore posted:If the dem fanboys were half as interested in turning the party into something that people actually want to vote for than they are in making excuses for the incompetence and corruption of the dem establishment, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Hillary clinton got the majority of the votes in the election. By several million people.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:39
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Lesser evilism is also a reason the Democrats have such a disadvantage with our trash media. The media desperately paints a portrait where both sides aren't really that different and acting in mostly good faith. In that sort of environment trying to claim you HAVE To vote for the lesser evil or everything breaks down is incredibly difficult. It basically boils down to not wanting to take any hard stands that could lose you votes with "moderate" or conservative Democrats because they consider those to be their base. It's a way to guilt people that they don't actually want to represent to vote for them instead of actively try and get their support like they should. It's why after having to vote for the lesser evil there is little attempt to reign in the evil and instead start yelling at people that complain. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 14:41
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Hillary clinton got the majority of the votes in the election. By several million people. Cool that she's president, then. This is incidentally why your lot is useless at winning anything - you literally end up ignoring objective reality in favour of poo poo that doesn't loving matter but you wish it did.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:44
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Provide me with any significant proof that people that take up the "leftist" label as an excuse to spam the same few slogans to every thread on every website are actually meaningfully particularly "leftist" or any more actually progressive than people that don't do that. Hello, my name is Fred, I’m 29, I’m an active leftist militant who campaigned for a leftist candidate in the elections in my country. The platform I defended is significantly more progressive than anything the Democratic Party has ever dreamt of, but that’s not really hard. You can google it, it is called L’Avenir en Commun, and if you’re afraid you won’t understand it there’s also a comic book version, the images should help. I am a proud leftist, and the Democratic Party is utter trash and a den of rightwing plutocrats who are ready to sell mother, father and more importantly every single one of their so-called principles in order to have their name on a bill and to look like the adult in the room - as shown by the latest immigration reform travesty. Now, your turn. Show me examples of what I asked you.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:45
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Cerebral Bore posted:Cool that she's president, then. You literally just said democrats need to turn into something people vote for. People voted for them, more people voted for them than republicans, millions of more people voted hillary clinton than trump. More people have voted for democrats than republicans in all but like one election in the last 25 years. Getting raw numbers of people to vote for them is the exact thing democrats are actually good at.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:49
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You literally just said democrats need to turn into something people vote for. People voted for them, more people voted for them than republicans, millions of more people voted hillary clinton than trump. More people have voted for democrats than republicans in all but like one election in the last 25 years. Getting raw numbers of people to vote for them is the exact thing democrats are actually good at. More people voted for them because they focused on population centers rather than winning states. I imagine it would have been a closer PV if Trump had done the same, as both candidates had extremely bad approval ratings. When you play baseball, you dont throw the bat into the crowd and then brag about how you threw the bat farther than everyone else in the game after your team loses. You threw the bat farther because nobody else threw their bat, because that's a stupid thing to do.
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Feb 15, 2018 14:53
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Neurolimal posted:More people voted for them because they focused on population centers rather than winning states. Cool, weird that that wasn't the issue that got brought up and instead the original go to attack was some incorrect lie about them not having a platform people want to vote form even though they have gotten the most votes in nearly every election in decades. Almost like people bringing it up are disingenuous or something!
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Feb 15, 2018 15:04
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Instead of justifying voting for the lesser evil, why not ask why both candidates are evil? Why isn't there a good person in the ballot? Instead of trying to decide between bad and worse, why not ask why the only two candidates on the ballot agree on so many issues in the first place?
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Feb 15, 2018 15:18
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:You literally just said democrats need to turn into something people vote for. People voted for them, more people voted for them than republicans, millions of more people voted hillary clinton than trump. More people have voted for democrats than republicans in all but like one election in the last 25 years. Getting raw numbers of people to vote for them is the exact thing democrats are actually good at. Cool that the dems haven't been completely routed and lost the entire federal government as well as most every state government, then. I'm sure that if you just win the semantic argument everything will be fine. It's not like you're zealously shielding incompetents, after all.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:18
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One thing that bugs the hell out of me are people that tell me I have to vote for the lesser of two evils and then claim the lesser evil is my ally and we all agree on 95% of the same stuff. It not only sounds ridiculous, but it shows a severe disconnect in what I consider important or even want out of government.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:21
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Like, leaving political opinions aside, the real bad thing about lesser evilism is that it makes it nearly impossible to reform a failing party like the Dems because you get a core of true believers to whom even demanding some sort of accountability from the party leadership is going too far. It's obvious why they keep losing all the time, because failure is never punished.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:35
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