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I've never ever ever had pirates be an existential threat to my empire. Sure they might kill several mining stations (which is actually fine if you are a democracy) but they've been little more than a nuisance and totally outmatched by my fleets. Marauders? Yeah they can gently caress you over hard, but pirates are just a tiny annoyance for me (though I only play on hard difficulty - I have no idea if it may be worse at higher difficulties).
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Mar 12, 2018 17:58
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
Okay see this is where you lose me, because I'm 95% sure what you describe can't happen. Mining and Research stations are invincible until the systems starbase is taken out. The pirates can't kill your resource extractors until they fight the starbase.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:00
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I'm going to stop making GBS threads up the thread about it. I play a medium 4 arm spiral galaxy with 1.0 hyperlane density. I identify and rush to choke points while also trying to fill out my space so there are no unclaimed systems not protect by an upgraded starbase. The problem is the time before that fill-out is complete - the pirates spawn and before they engage the system's starbase they usually kill any mining/research stations in between where they entered the system and the defense station.
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Firebert posted:I've never ever ever had pirates be an existential threat to my empire. Sure they might kill several mining stations (which is actually fine if you are a democracy) but they've been little more than a nuisance and totally outmatched by my fleets. Marauders? Yeah they can gently caress you over hard, but pirates are just a tiny annoyance for me (though I only play on hard difficulty - I have no idea if it may be worse at higher difficulties). DatonKallandor posted:Okay see this is where you lose me, because I'm 95% sure what you describe can't happen. Mining and Research stations are invincible until the systems starbase is taken out. The pirates can't kill your resource extractors until they fight the starbase.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:00
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OwlFancier posted:The only thing I can think of that would be affecting your ability to fight the pirates would be if you're playing on a very connected map with no real chokepoints, because that's going to give you high piracy threat and make it really difficult to actually secure fronts. E: AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
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Mar 12, 2018 18:01
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
i'm just honestly puzzled by how fast your pirates escalate. screenshots of your first two or three pirate waves might help us understand what's going on here DatonKallandor posted:Okay see this is where you lose me, because I'm 95% sure what you describe can't happen. Mining and Research stations are invincible until the systems starbase is taken out. The pirates can't kill your resource extractors until they fight the starbase. this is definitely not true; pirates can kill stations before the starbase.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:01
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Jazerus posted:i'm just honestly puzzled by how fast your pirates escalate. screenshots of your first two or three pirate waves might help us understand what's going on here
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Mar 12, 2018 18:02
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Jazerus posted:this is definitely not true; pirates can kill stations before the starbase. I'll take your word for it then, I've never seen it happen (and I have seen them skip stations that are right next to them to get to the outpost) - the only time I've ever lost resource stations is after the pirates have taken out the local starbase.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:04
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:It just sucks because that is not "pirate" behaviour and it is just a fun tax. Pirates cant act like pirates in Stellaris because the game mechanics don't make it possible. Actual pirates would prey on civilian shipping, avoid any confrontation with naval forces, and slink away to share the spoils. But there is no civilian shipping or in fact any shipping at all so there really isn't anything a pirate can do except suicide into the nearest outpost. I'm starting to think that whoever suggested just abstracting piracy probably had it right. Just make it so that long borders with low protection causes a "piracy" effect that siphons resources. It puts that same pressure against over-expansion or naval neglect as current pirates, except without being annoying and retarded. Maybe spawn a fortified pirate base in deeper space that you can optionally assault to weaken them for a while, but do away with pirate raiding fleets.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:12
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I'm pretty sure they can and will go after stations without killing the base, it's just a little rare and probably even moreso if you play with normal system sizes because the base will cover most of the system with its missile battery. They disengage after blowing up some stations but they will prioritize the starbase if it starts shooting at them, which it will if they go anywhere near it.Chomp8645 posted:Pirates cant act like pirates in Stellaris because the game mechanics don't make it possible. Actual pirates would prey on civilian shipping, avoid any confrontation with naval forces, and slink away to share the spoils. But there is no civilian shipping or in fact any shipping at all so there really isn't anything a pirate can do except suicide into the nearest outpost. Honestly I'd quite like them to work more or less like marauder empires, expanding away from your empire and building up their own systems. If you have an unclaimed/undeveloped area then it should become a haven for pirates and I'd quite like them to set up an actual coherent base and start raiding lots of people from that area. One of the main issues I have with them is that they only spawn right on your border and only ever go after your own systems, really speaking they should spawn further away and try to raid anyone they can. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 12, 2018 |
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Mar 12, 2018 18:13
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Chomp8645 posted:I'm starting to think that whoever suggested just abstracting piracy probably had it right. Just make it so that long borders with low protection causes a "piracy" effect that siphons resources. It puts that same pressure against over-expansion or naval neglect as current pirates, except without being annoying and retarded. Maybe spawn a fortified pirate base in deeper space that you can optionally assault to weaken them for a while, but do away with pirate raiding fleets. 
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Mar 12, 2018 18:18
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What is the difference between point defense and flack?
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Mar 12, 2018 18:21
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Point defense is good against missiles, flak is good against strikecraft.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:33
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
If you have a lovely system not worth outposting in your interior, leave it open, preferably next to your fleet base, they will spawn there. The AI often seems to do just that for seemingly that purpose, leaving a single star system gap between yours and their border somewhere.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:35
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Sloober posted:If you have a lovely system not worth outposting in your interior, leave it open, preferably next to your fleet base, they will spawn there. The AI often seems to do just that for seemingly that purpose, leaving a single star system gap between yours and their border somewhere.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:37
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Eh, this isnt really a reliable option. Trust me, I've tried it....it sucks more (to me). I'm not gonna lie it seems like your problems are very unique, its always worked for me
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Mar 12, 2018 18:39
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Sounds like, instead of blobbing outwards and keeping your empire contiguous, you are racing ahead and building isolated outposts in otherwise unclaimed space. If so, that’s exactly the type of behavior the pirates are intended to discourage. Sounds like it’s working. You’re extremely discouraged.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:40
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This game definitely needs something to make snaking your way to chokepoints not the 100% always best strategy. Pirates are a decent attempt, but they don’t destroy your claim (which would be annoying as hell granted) so I don’t think they quite do it.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:47
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ConfusedUs posted:Sounds like, instead of blobbing outwards and keeping your empire contiguous, you are racing ahead and building isolated outposts in otherwise unclaimed space.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:50
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Senor Dog posted:This game definitely needs something to make snaking your way to chokepoints not the 100% always best strategy. Pirates are a decent attempt, but they don’t destroy your claim (which would be annoying as hell granted) so I don’t think they quite do it. Something like the simulation of trade lanes from your outposts back to your colonized systems, representing how those resources get from your mines to the economy at large. Then pirates can park on those lanes and hit you with a penalty to whatever the income is?
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Mar 12, 2018 18:52
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Arrath posted:Something like the simulation of trade lanes from your outposts back to your colonized systems, representing how those resources get from your mines to the economy at large. Then pirates can park on those lanes and hit you with a penalty to whatever the income is? That's how it works in endless space. And is also extremely good for getting rid of pops you don't like (just resettle them to a planet beyond the pirate trap, the transport ship is gonna get blown up )
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Mar 12, 2018 18:55
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Truga posted:That's how it works in endless space. And is also extremely good for getting rid of pops you don't like (just resettle them to a planet beyond the pirate trap, the transport ship is gonna get blown up Oh man, I have a goodly number of pops I wouldn't mind doing this to. Stupid no purge grumble grumble.
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Mar 12, 2018 18:58
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I wish there were options for really slow "ethical purges" to just generally reduce your pops in order to make room for robots. I mean in real life it would not be hard to replace a bunch of miners or farmers with robots over time, and those displaced workers would just go somewhere else, especially in a utopia.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:01
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Sloober posted:If you have a lovely system not worth outposting in your interior, leave it open, preferably next to your fleet base, they will spawn there. The AI often seems to do just that for seemingly that purpose, leaving a single star system gap between yours and their border somewhere. They it becomes a hive of scum and villainy.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:06
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Started again recently and AI seem even worse than before for anyone else? (2.02 beta) Playing with Advanced start + Insane and by 2300 or so they are completely inferior in everything and even fallen empires aren't much threat (they don't handle the new none-deathball war very well). By early-mid 2300 players can field around 100-150k in fleet power and AI seem to have something like 30k-60k (100kish for fallen empires) total at most. Are there any good AI/Difficulty mods in the workshop that anyone can recommend? Haven't gotten to end game contingency because desync issues make it impossible to play multiplayer past 2300, really hope that gets fixed soon. Having to do a 5min reload every 15-20minutes make it unplayable. Other than this game-halting issue everything in the new 2.00 changes seem fantastic (albeit unbalanced but fun nonetheless) Also the solution I took to piracy is just to ignore them completely, they kill 2-3 systems and go back, so you just take the hit and rebuild it and be sane for few more years. The fleet progression seems to be 100 - 600ish-1kish-repeating till it caps out around 5k which is the single pirate galleon.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:15
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Yeah I think they blundered the AI difficulty a little? Or at least are still ironing a few things out. Looked like the next beta patch has some AI diff stuff.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:18
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I receive a trio of "Escort" class ships from an Enigmatic Observer AE. After a few battles, I'm down to 2 of them. When I hit reinforce fleet, I'm surprised to see an Escort in the build queue as I don't have the ship design and it is completely different to my empire's ship types. When it pops out, I notice that this huge thing that looks like a piece of a space station with odd geometric symbols is now sitting at the front of my fleet. 
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Mar 12, 2018 19:22
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Inevitablelongshot posted:I receive a trio of "Escort" class ships from an Enigmatic Observer AE. That would be a bugged model and a giant turret. There was something in the beta patch about event ships having fleet templates but I don't know if they were fixing that issue or whether they caused that issue.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:27
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Inevitablelongshot posted:I receive a trio of "Escort" class ships from an Enigmatic Observer AE. hell yeah finally my own ship building mentality, strap an engine to a cannon
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Mar 12, 2018 19:30
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'm not sure where you get that. I'm talking about the pirates that spawn when you only have a few systems 10 years into the game, where being expanded out to choke point and having starforts built in stategic locations will not have necessarily happened yet. Again, I want to drop it until I can post some screenshots. At this point I dont even want to bother with that because this turned into much more of a commotion than I ever thought it would. I appreciate that people want to help and that I have gotten so many replies, but it is looking more and more like bad luck combined with maybe needing to employ a different strategy in the first fifteenish years of the game. What difficulty setting do you have? Maybe there's a bug on a lower difficulty or something? The part that we're confused on isn't based on luck. The starting pirate strength is very consistent, and it takes almost no investment to be able to fight off them off (200 energy, ~300 minerals for admiral+2 corvettes). With the influence gating expansion speed even the longest time to get your fleet to the targeted system you'd lose at most that 1 system worth of mining bases. Part of that cost then gets recouped by the reward on the pirate base being bigger when they blow up stuff. You should have enough time after that to consolidate initial space fairly well. Often you'll have some systems you need to clear (500 and 1000 being rough strengths of space monsters), so slowly building up your fleet to 1.5k strength (somewhere around 16-20 corvettes) is your goal. Next pirate spawn is like 500 or 600 strength? I'm not even sure because I crush their skulls really easily, then you can boat your fleet around to start clearing those monster guarded systems. If you're not killing monsters it should be in your budget to expand up to 1k fleet strength. After that second pirate wave if you're not doing wars, border forts should either be able to straight repel pirate fleets or hold out long enough for your fleet to arrive, or just be a spot you station that 20 corvette fleet. A couple people have talked about pirate fleets growing on par with their fleet strength, and I'm guessing this is just people not keeping up on where their fleet strength should be. What is your naval strength/capacity compared to other empires? By the time I see pirate galleons (the 4k fleet strength), I'm fielding a 14k strength fleet or two. The only other option is they're not killing the pirate base itself, because that pumps out new fleets that grow in strength.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:35
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I've conquered a few planets from non-hive empires that had hive pops living and working peacefully side by side. Of course the moment I took control they all were put the the ol' genocide. Anyone else noticed this?
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Mar 12, 2018 19:38
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Another change I would love is Marauders having closed boarders so your fleet manager doesn't decide to funnel all your ship through them and get killed. Also, maybe a token reward for killing them? I wiped them out before any of them generated a Khan and there is just nothing? and their systems aren't anything special or even have a planet! Atleast the fallen empire is nice enough to give you a swag rear end planet and T5 techs when you roll over their 100k fleet.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:40
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Wassbix posted:Another change I would love is Marauders having closed boarders so your fleet manager doesn't decide to funnel all your ship through them and get killed. usually one of their systems is a pretty good trove of minerals on a smaller scale than the ether drake's horde. At the time you can wipe them out though it's still just a pittance like the ether drake's. (its egg is at least fun, and you get dragonskin from it so)
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Mar 12, 2018 19:47
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Has anyone been actually attacked by Marauders? I see their fleets fly by sometimes on their way to get stuck in whatever system in the galaxy the game has decided to send all marauders to, and sometimes I get a message saying I'm about to be attacked but no one ever showed up. I've not once actually see a red-flagged marauder fleet.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:49
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Sloober posted:usually one of their systems is a pretty good trove of minerals on a smaller scale than the ether drake's horde. At the time you can wipe them out though it's still just a pittance like the ether drake's. (its egg is at least fun, and you get dragonskin from it so) Yeah a fun token reward would be great. A monument/zoo building with the Khan in chains would be funny or an empire modifier geared towards military (fleet cap/fire rate etc). Fun fact is the marauders don't move fleets around their own systems so you can effectively beat them with 20-30k worth of fleetpower if you wanted, far before they ever awaken a Khan.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:52
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Marauder fleets in my game seem to stall out halfway to their targets and just sit. Now that I’ve had a 2.0 game hit a crisis I see that you get the discount for pulling minerals out of sector stockpiles like in a defensive war! Can you pretty please do the same for the desperate measures edict?
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Mar 12, 2018 19:52
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Wassbix posted:Fun fact is the marauders don't move fleets around their own systems so you can effectively beat them with 20-30k worth of fleetpower if you wanted, far before they ever awaken a Khan. Be careful doing this. Attacking them this way can cause the Khan to spawn with his 60k fleet right in front of you. A rather rude awakening.
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Mar 12, 2018 19:55
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Sloober posted:hell yeah finally my own ship building mentality, strap an engine to a cannon
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Mar 12, 2018 19:58
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Baronjutter posted:Has anyone been actually attacked by Marauders? I see their fleets fly by sometimes on their way to get stuck in whatever system in the galaxy the game has decided to send all marauders to, and sometimes I get a message saying I'm about to be attacked but no one ever showed up. I've not once actually see a red-flagged marauder fleet. Yeah they got hired to rough me up once. Maybe they suffered some attrition on their way through my neighbor's territory but I kicked their rear end pretty handily. NBD.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:00
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Wassbix posted:Another change I would love is Marauders having closed boarders so your fleet manager doesn't decide to funnel all your ship through them and get killed. When you come across Marauders or Leviathans make sure you open up their system and click the button on the left to put the system off-limits for ship travel. I've noticed that since 2.0, fleets and reinforcements really like to suicide into deadly systems and that prevents it from happening.
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Mar 12, 2018 20:03
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Firebert posted:When you come across Marauders or Leviathans make sure you open up their system and click the button on the left to put the system off-limits for ship travel. I've noticed that since 2.0, fleets and reinforcements really like to suicide into deadly systems and that prevents it from happening. I didn't know this, this is great thanks! It will be great to use when they fix the desync issues and I can play again 
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Mar 12, 2018 20:07
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