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enraged_camel posted:So what exactly happens when you run out of stamina? It's exactly the same mechanic as we fight with shieldvermin. When you have 0 stamina and get hit, your guard is broken and you stagger. This puts you into a state that lasts around a half second where you cannot block and will get hit if someone attacks. Now, a lot of enemies do not have the ability to follow up in that time period and you will re-establish your 0-stamina guard by the time they can hit again. This isn't unique to Ribspreader - Spinemanglr also cannot unless he uses one very specific combo attack. Ribspreader and Spinemanglr both have attacks that will do damage through guard, and Spinemanglr's is actually much easier to dodge than Ribspreader's once you realize it has an absurd amount of phantom range. You should basically consider yourself fortunate that he decided not to use the attack. This does, however, mean that in general you should not drop your guard if you run out of stamina. You can still deflect a surprising number of blows even with no stamina and it's very frequently the difference between life and death.
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Mar 30, 2018 18:17
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i've tried but the dwarf's pick just absolutely feels awful no matter what i do and i see no benefit to it over the 2h hammer or greataxe whatsoever. if i want to do high damage to something big i just use a basic attack with those, and if i want to reliably control a crowd i can use charged attacks at a pace that suits me with the pick i have to do a slow, awkward attack to do high damage and the attack i want to use against hordes is glacially slow. my sicknasty minecraft cosplay will never get off the ground at this pace.
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Mar 30, 2018 18:19
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Ironically, just as I complain about Halescourge on Quick Play, I end up going through the fastest Halescourge kill I've ever seen. Ironically we weren't even focusing the fat gently caress down; I burnt my speed potion early to intercept a couple of Chaos Warriors dropping in and ended up sledgehammering him in the back after they went down.
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Mar 30, 2018 18:32
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Ignite Memories posted:you are slowly infecting me btw and i'm spending more and more of my dwarf time playing as Captain Twohammers it makes you much better at melee!
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Mar 30, 2018 18:38
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The Slack Lagoon posted:When is the beta going live? Sienna's melee weapons are probably the least effected by the cleave change. Most of her stuff was already excellent at cleaving and she didn't really have a glaive/falchion equivalent. He melee attacks are strictly single target high damage or area control with no middle ground. The middle ground weapons are the ones that got affected the worst. On that note, playing unchained with a longsword and flamethrower staff is actually super great fun on the beta patch, especially if you are rolling with a bh or WW or lumberjack to snipe. You are the street sweeper supreme and can lay waste to wave after wave of shitling without pause. Especially now that your can openers specifically are going to struggle on hordes its useful if you've got axe dwarves and hunters.
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Mar 30, 2018 18:59
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Cowcaster posted:i have absolutely no problem getting to the second grim on righteous stand but i'll be goddamned if climbing back down the ladder to drop safely hasn't caused me and several people i've played with to go splat The pro move is to jump back into the window you came out of
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Mar 30, 2018 19:01
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Drythe posted:it makes you much better at melee! I played a round as ranger and it was like swinging my hammer through molasses
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Mar 30, 2018 19:02
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Ignite Memories posted:I played a round as ranger and it was like swinging my hammer through molasses Even if it's not mechanically the best weapon (although it objectively is) the warhammers are the best weapons simply by virtue of how well it makes enemies flop and ragdoll around.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:05
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I have a love-hate relationship with hammers/maces. I love seeing rats flop around, but I also hate not knowing at a glance which ones are going to get back up.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:09
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You get better and better at reading ragdolls. It's important to remember that the instant they drop their weapon they are Dead
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Mar 30, 2018 19:11
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Zhulik posted:I have a love-hate relationship with hammers/maces. I love seeing rats flop around, but I also hate not knowing at a glance which ones are going to get back up. Finding Dawri: Just Keep Swinging, Just Keep Swinging...
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Mar 30, 2018 19:11
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The 2H hammers have been the most consistently good weapons for Kruber and Bardin, IMO. I've had bad rounds with the Halberd, 1H Sword, and the 2H Axe, but being able to chain-knockdown infinity light targets and kill armored dudes quickly always lets me contribute.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:12
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The only, ONLY situation that a 2 handed hammer handles poorly is when you are so surrounded that you don't have time to charge a heavy attack. It is at times like this when the discerning dwarf pulls out his auxiliary hammer
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Mar 30, 2018 19:13
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i hope they add orcs soon
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Mar 30, 2018 19:16
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Beta dudes: how has Kruber's sword/shield been affected by the changes?
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Mar 30, 2018 19:26
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The character design on Spinemanglr is so loving great, a giant armored rat with a huge fuckoff spear and dual swords. Love that dude
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Mar 30, 2018 19:43
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Skypie posted:Beta dudes: how has Kruber's sword/shield been affected by the changes? Haven't played it but it's more than likely fine. Like I've been saying, the stuff that has always handled big groups of bullshit still does so excellently. With weapon power on champion nerfed across the board there is a lot more stuff you won't be killing outright in one hit so being able to control hordes is going to be the difference between a successful champion run and a unsuccessful one. The weapons that you are most going to notice the effect on (aside from everyone seeming tougher in general) are the versatile weapons that could do a little bit of everything but weren't great cleaving baseline (especially when using the first game as your baseline). Falchion, glaive, greataxe, and (probably) halberd users are going to have a rude awakening when they can't just keep swinging constantly and kill all the rats. If you want to manage big groups of poo poo, you're going to need greatswords, hammers, arming swords, elf sword/sword/dagger and the like. The cleave change also is applying to ranged weapons so elf and BH can't just scythe through hordes like they use to because their poo poo killed the next 8 rats behind the main target. For Bounty Hunter, I could see the new normal being the repeater pistol or volley crossbow (for stomping bosses and specials) paired with his greatsword for managing hordes. Expect to see a lot more shields, a lot more greatswords, and a lot more axes when the next patch goes live.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:48
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The glaive still just keeps swinging and kills all the rats, you just need to move, dodge, and parry while you do it now. I'm not finding it struggling with groups of enemies in the least.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:53
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Especially with penetration on the Volley Bow and elfbows nerfed. I would also expect flamethrowers to be more in vogue for champion. It doesn't really penetrate so much as it does blind area saturation and being able to handle the rear of the group, point downrange and end a group in it's tracks is going to be a huge huge thing. HOWEVER, they did nerf the hitstun on it compared to the current live patch. Blazing away on stormvermin no longer hitstun them so you can no longer use the flamethrower to contain a stormvermin patrol in a hallway like you can currently. Hookrats also don't get hitstunned anymore and will grab your rear end mid-420-blaze-it.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:54
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Night10194 posted:The glaive still just keeps swinging and kills all the rats, you just need to move, dodge, and parry while you do it now. I'm not finding it struggling with groups of enemies in the least. That's the point. Before it was braindead easy, you didn't really need to worry about self preservation and was far and away the best elf melee weapon. Now that you have to employ the same strategies you would use for any of the non-broken weapons and you aren't killing everything in one swing there will be reasons to bring other stuff. Having only 2 block shields is going to be way more noticeable now that you actually have to block.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:58
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DeathSandwich posted:That's the point. Before it was braindead easy, you didn't really need to worry about self preservation and was far and away the best elf melee weapon. Now that you have to employ the same strategies you would use for any of the non-broken weapons and you aren't killing everything in one swing there will be reasons to bring other stuff. Having only 2 block shields is going to be way more noticeable now that you actually have to block. Yeah, rolling Stamina and/or block cost reduction on some things is good for the Glaive.
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Mar 30, 2018 19:59
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For Slayer are dual axes worth using? I feel like their damage is poor but they swing so fast they might actually put out more damage then a 2H hammer?
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Mar 30, 2018 20:12
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Really would like to use the 2H sword more but it's oddly slow and the complete lack of real anti-armor on it is crippling in Champion. At least the Executioner's Sword has a good moveset, though I wish it actually had a skin with a pointy bit at the end like a real sword.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:21
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toasterwarrior posted:Really would like to use the 2H sword more but it's oddly slow and the complete lack of real anti-armor on it is crippling in Champion. At least the Executioner's Sword has a good moveset, though I wish it actually had a skin with a pointy bit at the end like a real sword. what use is there for a point if it's specifically made to chop off heads https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executioner%27s_sword
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Mar 30, 2018 20:25
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Johnny Joestar posted:what use is there for a point if it's specifically made to chop off heads I know that executioner swords are a real thing; I'm just fashion souls-ing here.
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Mar 30, 2018 20:32
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Dr. VooDoo posted:For Slayer are dual axes worth using? I feel like their damage is poor but they swing so fast they might actually put out more damage then a 2H hammer? they gently caress up armor and bosses
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Mar 30, 2018 20:36
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Dr. VooDoo posted:For Slayer are dual axes worth using? I feel like their damage is poor but they swing so fast they might actually put out more damage then a 2H hammer? They're Elite and boss killers, a great secondary choice for Slayer. Try the push attack with dual axes, you can make mincemeat out of Chaos Warriors with it (the heavy attacks work just fine but if you can afford to deplete some stamina the push attack comes out super fast and can melt a CW in seconds). I always have a dumb amount of Elites Killed at the end of every match as Slayer because of the Dual Axes. 1h Hammer for everything else is my preference. blindwoozie fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 30, 2018 |
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Mar 30, 2018 20:48
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Dr. VooDoo posted:For Slayer are dual axes worth using? I feel like their damage is poor but they swing so fast they might actually put out more damage then a 2H hammer? In terms of raw single target damage capability, the dual axes are one of the best weapons in the game. You will blend single targets especially when combined with the slayer passive. It hits like the 1 hand axe but has a swing speed like elf daggers, it's great. You'll want to use a hammer or warhammer (or a pick, if they ever unfuck how terrible it is) as your backup hordesweeper though, and the hammer is actually really great defensively since it comes with 4.5 block shields by default. Basically: Dual axes are why you slayer. You may as well use it if you get one.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:00
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Like one or two heavy attacks will kill almost any elite in the game with the dual axes. Those things hit hard as gently caress. Also they're ridiculously fun to use. I know they shouldn't be used on hordes but gently caress it, axe dance.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:00
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if you can flank the horde and start taking them out from behind the axes work real well combined with his increased movespeed talent
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Mar 30, 2018 21:03
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Trying to flank a horde seems like it'd be a great way to wind up either sandwiched between two hordes, or with a horde between you and your team while a special chokes the life out of you.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:13
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if you cant dodge specials you really shouldn't play Slayer, because how else are you gonna handle them
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Mar 30, 2018 21:14
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Backhand posted:Trying to flank a horde seems like it'd be a great way to wind up either sandwiched between two hordes, or with a horde between you and your team while a special chokes the life out of you. You move in a curve, out and back and out with your teammates as a center point.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:28
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Anyone know what causes chatty boys? There's nothing funnier than a dead rat screaming BARGLLAHRHGHBBNLLLL at you while you're trying to do grimoire parkour. I hope it is never fixed
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Mar 30, 2018 21:39
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Drythe posted:they gently caress up armor and bosses they also give you carpal tunnel
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Mar 30, 2018 21:44
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DeathSandwich posted:Haven't played it but it's more than likely fine. Like I've been saying, the stuff that has always handled big groups of bullshit still does so excellently. With weapon power on champion nerfed across the board there is a lot more stuff you won't be killing outright in one hit so being able to control hordes is going to be the difference between a successful champion run and a unsuccessful one. The weapons that you are most going to notice the effect on (aside from everyone seeming tougher in general) are the versatile weapons that could do a little bit of everything but weren't great cleaving baseline (especially when using the first game as your baseline). Falchion, glaive, greataxe, and (probably) halberd users are going to have a rude awakening when they can't just keep swinging constantly and kill all the rats. If you want to manage big groups of poo poo, you're going to need greatswords, hammers, arming swords, elf sword/sword/dagger and the like. Yeah, that's cool. I just haven't really had a chance to play the last couple days, and we're about to head out on a 6-day trip to see the fiancee's family so I'll probably be MIA when this goes live. I really like the sword/shield playstyle so having it be more useful, for lack of a better term, would be nice.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:57
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Coolguye posted:they also give you carpal tunnel The real reason Slayers want to die.
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Mar 30, 2018 21:57
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The titular setpiece on Screaming Bell sure has some exciting geometry when you're trying to handmaiden charge through a chaos spawn.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:11
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Drythe posted:if you cant dodge specials you really shouldn't play Slayer, because how else are you gonna handle them leaping into them, christ what kind of question is that
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Mar 30, 2018 22:11
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Which weapon combo is recommended for the Witch Hunter Captain? I often see Saltzpyres with a ridiculously fast rapier kind of thing.
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Mar 30, 2018 22:14
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