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Wouldn't the best counter to lion be a defender that can do the same exact poo poo?
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Apr 4, 2018 18:28
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 06:35 |
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Malcolm Excellent posted:Wouldn't the best counter to lion be a defender that can do the same exact poo poo? God no. Not only is Lion's ability overpowered but it's not fun. His ability is "I take away your ability to do poo poo", those kinds of things need to be handled very carefully. I still think he needs to look at his arm for the whole scan so that he's out of action...his ability is powerful enough to justify it.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:30
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Mute is the answer, keeping a router or two on your person so you can drop them on demand
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Apr 4, 2018 18:32
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Jack Trades posted:Ubisoft should be doing the balancing separately for the console and PC versions, just like Overwatch does. you mean two changes and then ignoring the console version exists for two years? I think they're already there
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Apr 4, 2018 18:34
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mp5 posted:Mute is the answer, keeping a router or two on your person so you can drop them on demand It takes like 2 seconds to drop a jammer and if you move more than around 4 feet away the effect ends and you're scanned. so you're cutting your Mute capabilities by 25% - 50% for a late round retake strat that doesn't do a hell of a lot in most situations....you generally have to move more than 4 feet to get an angle on the Attackers in my experience.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:35
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Minrad posted:you mean two changes and then ignoring the console version exists for two years? I mean console version can be totally forgotten for all I care. I just want the balancing changes on PC to be done without the "but how does this affect console players?" in mind.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:37
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Jack Trades posted:I mean console version can be totally forgotten for all I care. This already happened, they removed console from Pro League. They don't really care about it. But PC is only 25% of RB6's player base so it probably wouldn't be a good idea to totally ignore everyone else.
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Apr 4, 2018 18:42
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This already happened, they removed console from Pro League. They don't really care about it. Wow really?
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Apr 4, 2018 19:08
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Honestly their record of operator design since Blood Orchid has been terrible. Even old ops have been changed negatively. The new Blitz sucks. with the exception of Zofia, White Noise geneuinely owned imo! dokkaebi's phone call was obviously silly but it felt self-aware and intentionally humorous at the time of release. the whole idea of a t4ctic00l h4x0r is  .it wouldn't be a problem if Lion/Finka weren't such lazy and immediate rehashes of her - especially just after introducing Ela's twin sister that was basically more of an Ash clone gameplay wise. the whole thing reeks of rushing to meet deadlines. but the hacking cameras thing and her DMR/smg combo are awesome and i would still play her even if that's all she had  also vigil is exactly what siege needs. i DO think that both korean loadouts are a bit overpowered but his ability is great in that it is so highly situational that many considered it useless. this is a good thing. if they released operators like this but with less reliable guns it would rule. people think guys like tachanka suck but it would be better for the game if new operators leaned in his direction every now and then. i really doubt they actually NEED to go full Ela with each new operator just to ensure season pass sales. most of the season pass owners i know just want to support this game regardless of who the gently caress they even add to it next and blow their extra renown on skins Thief fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Apr 4, 2018 |
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Apr 4, 2018 19:10
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Thief I didn't mean they were all bad, but Ela and Lion have flat out sucked and been blatantly overpowered from the get-go. That's 2/8, 25%, way too high for supposed "professional" game devs. I expect a bad one to sneak in there now and then but that's a lousy ratio. Plus Blitz getting turned into a monstrous Battering Ram of Doom on TTS before they walked it back. Plus Finka being a bad design that has a huge impact at lower skill levels and barely any impact at higher skill levels. I don't know. Feels like they don't know what they are doing, less like they're "experimenting" with new abilities and more like they're loving up.
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Apr 4, 2018 19:27
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Plus Blitz getting turned into a monstrous Battering Ram of Doom on TTS before they walked it back. I'm mostly with you on the other ones, but you shouldn't really fault them for stuff they do on TTS, the whole point of it is for testing.
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Apr 4, 2018 19:49
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Honestly their record of operator design since Blood Orchid has been terrible. Even old ops have been changed negatively. The new Blitz sucks. Honestly what they did currently worked pretty well. From every 3-4 games seeing really glaring nasty poo poo, now it is pretty tame in comparison. So yeah, I hope they don't go too crazy.
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Apr 4, 2018 20:05
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I would be fine with Lion if the scan wore off if you entered a mute field or stopped moving and or b. If he had more counters. Like I said I still don't know why vigil isn't his counter. Even giving one person the ability to move unhindered during the scan vastly changes how the op would play I feel.
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Apr 4, 2018 20:08
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a real counter is sorely needed. Finka has been a huge buff to smoke's warcrimes as someone that doesn't play the test server, i feel that the blitz that finally went live is in a good place and the more variation to shield users the better. but yeah they STILL need to properly nerf ela's smg into the ground even after "balancing" her. ignoring that her silenced shotgun is one of the single most fun roaming specs in the entire game so i can't help but love ubi for making that an option. it makes no sense that this wasn't her primary focus right from the start considering how well grzmots work for improvised ambushes. kapkan's rework was very cool and i hope they continue doing stuff like this. a lot of people considered it a nerf but as time passed i think most of the mains out there have come to appreciate it despite losing their precious 1 hit kills. unfortunately this is something we won't likely see anytime soon with lion or finka. they could be SO much better if activating their ability wasn't so easy. lion has this huge loving backpack he waddles around with. maybe make him take it off and deploy it like a rook bag to scan adjacent rooms or something? thermite has no problem running up to the loving immediate obj walls so its not like this would be too hard. the invincible dubstep drone hovering over the center of the map isn't going to be why kids are quitting Call of Duty to migrate to this game in 2018 lmao and i like finka because pretty much just because she brings the Saiga shotgun to the attack team without having to play recruit. that and the russian LMG are possibly the two funniest things to exploit with no recoil. but all she has to do is squeeze her power glove to cast a raidwide buff across the whole map with practically zero cooldown between when its active and wears off  first of all Finka's ability should only affect herself. why the gently caress are R6's top operators that don't suffer from her condition juicing themselves with experimental nanobots, its loving insane lmao. this way even if they don't change the instant activation it wouldn't be a tactically magical battle rez. i mean lol @ anyone not already doing this but an ability like that should be used very selfishly - like doc spawn peekers do except with no option to share the love.
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Apr 4, 2018 20:31
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Vigil isn't his counter because Lion's drone uses a special snowflake sonar wallhacks method of acquiring targets and Vigil only affects cameras. If anything Cav would be the counter (as if she needs to be more annoying).
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Apr 4, 2018 20:35
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Easy, let anyone who encounters Lion's dead body rip off his armband and enjoy the free intel. Even Defenders.
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Apr 4, 2018 20:55
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So even if you kill Lion his teammates just cannibalize him? Great plan, genius, 5 Lions in every match are just the nerf to him we need.
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Apr 4, 2018 20:57
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ubi's proposed nerf is something really simple like lowering the uses fro. 3 to 2 or something surely that way his pickrate will be reduced in pro league from 100% to ...well lol it'll probably still be like at least 85% because he has no real counter.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:01
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Buffing the range of Mutes devices would be a counter. Triple range specific to lions scan?
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Apr 4, 2018 21:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It takes like 2 seconds to drop a jammer and if you move more than around 4 feet away the effect ends and you're scanned. so you're cutting your Mute capabilities by 25% - 50% for a late round retake strat that doesn't do a hell of a lot in most situations.... If what people are saying about Lion's pick rate is true, "most situations" are now going to be facing a Lion on the other team. Keeping one jammer on you undeployed was already a good strategy so you could place it later in the round as you needed to anyway. I have a video of me playing Mute in this situation from a couple of days ago that I'll post here tonight once I cut out some post-match adrenaline-fueled screaming.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:17
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huge Castle buff finally inbound as he unrolls the spiky soundproofing foam you see in studios
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Apr 4, 2018 21:20
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Thief posted:huge Castle buff finally inbound as he unrolls the spiky soundproofing foam you see in studios All I want is Bouncy Castle
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Apr 4, 2018 21:22
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My personal feeling is that Lion's current power level makes him a must-pick operator and effective counters to him would, by necessity, also become must-pick operators. And must-pick operators are bad, as is being forced to play paper-rock-scissors with the meta.
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Apr 4, 2018 21:34
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:My personal feeling is that Lion's current power level makes him a must-pick operator and effective counters to him would, by necessity, also become must-pick operators. And must-pick operators are bad, as is being forced to play paper-rock-scissors with the meta. What do you want to do about Thermite/Hibana and Thatcher then?
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Apr 4, 2018 22:14
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That's mostly because they fill a role of hard breacher, which is a very strong role to play. Different story. And Thatcher is by no means a "must pick", his rate during the invitational was 30% (compared to 40% Thermite and 80% Hibana, which is still smaller than the outrageous 97% pick rate for Lion).
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Apr 4, 2018 22:24
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They should make Thatcher's EMPs also frags.
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Apr 4, 2018 23:02
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SpazmasterX posted:They should make Thatcher's EMPs also frags. This would be pretty funny. So many fragged Thermites
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Apr 5, 2018 00:14
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It takes like 2 seconds to drop a jammer and if you move more than around 4 feet away the effect ends and you're scanned. so you're cutting your Mute capabilities by 25% - 50% for a late round retake strat that doesn't do a hell of a lot in most situations....you generally have to move more than 4 feet to get an angle on the Attackers in my experience. Re-quoting this because I got that video uploaded. I'm by no means a wizard at this game but I'm gonna always keep a jammer on me for these situations going forward. All it took was wiggling 4 feet to the right or so to get an angle here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G1Y8B1dCyY I think I'm happiest about Blitz though.
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Apr 5, 2018 02:42
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Am i missing something? You didn't achieve anything during the scan.
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Apr 5, 2018 04:17
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I feel like i'd have been hit if I hadn't been moving when they were shooting through the wall. It also seems like Ying was relying too hard on Lion's pings when the other guy walked through the hallway and got shot; she looked like she was droning to try and find the last person when I got her. I could be wrong and if so I'm just happy to have clutched the match. I'm not saying Lion isn't a problem, but I think Ela at her worst was worse than this is.
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Apr 5, 2018 04:50
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mp5 posted:
I started playing when Ela was new, no way was she worse then than Lion is now. Ela never achieved 100% pickrate in pro league, which should say something.
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Apr 5, 2018 05:18
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Lion doesn't have the stats that Ela had. She was only finally nerfed because her personal global stats (KDR, W/L, pick rate, etc.) were ridiculously high. Lion is godlike because his ability lets any attacker get free kills, and he's a must-pick in Pro League because with the amount of coordination those teams have, they can exploit the skill ceiling on his ability to devastating effect. Pub games don't have that, not even ranked ones, so Ela was way more OP outside of Pro League because she allowed you to carry a match, which was way more important (and not nearly as important in Pro League, where operator utility is far more significant). The Siege community hated Ela and is largely indifferent towards Lion. Pro Leaguers hate Lion and were largely indifferent towards Ela.
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Apr 5, 2018 05:43
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Every ranked game in high ELO is lion + dokkabei + ying with a hibana or something in the mix. Siege took a hit on player numbers since the release of new ops. Multiple calls for operators affecting the environment not the players as thats where teh fun is and they go and release loving Lion. Pro players complaining that the meta sucks and isn't fun, same with pubs. I love this game but holy poo poo if they are releasing counters with the new defenders it needed to be at the same time. If you don't think Lion makes this game worse in every way I don't know what to tell you. just lol at 'carry jammers with you'
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Apr 5, 2018 06:08
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Siege is up to 80k players from 60k in January. It dropped ~2k in the last 30 days. Not much of a hit.
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Apr 5, 2018 06:29
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no one said what you're saying. i think everyone agrees lion is super strong, but you're living in a fantasyland if you think a pub group is going to get the same strength from his gadget that a pro team will. the average ranked team probably still isn't coordinated enough to actually force movement during lion scans. i do think he needs to be touched, but he's absolutely not as bad as ela was.
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Apr 5, 2018 06:30
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The rise in playerbase at the beginning of Chimera was the result of coming off of a popular Pro League, a marketing push on Outbreak and the new game versions. I think there was a sale as well. People finished outbreak pretty quickly considering its about 3 and a half hours of content played the across 2 difficulties. They didn't offer weekly modifiers to change up the gameplay (no barricades, bigger horde, two big guys, etc) so once you were done, unless you wanted charms, that was it. And Lion soured people pretty quick, yeah. Seeing the 99% pick rate is nuts, was Ela that high originally? I don't remember
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Apr 5, 2018 06:39
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its not exactly difficult. nearly every 'pub' team in plat and above can do it. The point is he takes action away from the player and its just not a fun mechanic.
queef anxiety fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Apr 5, 2018 |
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Apr 5, 2018 06:40
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Brinner posted:its not exactly difficult. nearly every 'pub' team in plat and above can do it. The point is he takes action away from the player and its just not a fun mechanic. Except a lot that aren't premade or unicorn in the wild levels of rare randoms that prematch commo aren't going to be able to fully capitalize on it as opposed to the idiot random going Ash or something. That's the point being made in thread. I think he just needs to deploy poo poo and ping an area, which was supposedly his original concept.
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Apr 5, 2018 06:56
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Nebiros posted:Except a lot that aren't premade or unicorn in the wild levels of rare randoms that prematch commo aren't going to be able to fully capitalize on it as opposed to the idiot random going Ash or something. That's the point being made in thread. I think he just needs to deploy poo poo and ping an area, which was supposedly his original concept. That wouldn't be a bad change although if it was a large area it would still be pretty OP for clearing rooms. Idk, i feel like there are so many great ideas for environmental changes and is part of what makes siege great. and we get lion, finka, zofia.
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Apr 5, 2018 07:26
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I still think one way to nerf Lion would be that he has to watch the drone from above while he's using it, surveying the area, and being the only one who can see the movement on his screen. It means the team is down one man while he's using it, and defenders can probably gamble that opfor isn't communicating enough to intercept a coordinated push with several of them moving at once. EDIT: also vigil should be invisible on Lion's drone, and if he does move, the screen should just flicker with error messages to spite Lion
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Apr 5, 2018 10:47
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