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Gaius Marius posted:It would've actually have been really hosed up if you reunited Veronica and Christine. Imagine Veronica's horror at seeing that Christine's clearly gone through a ton of torture and some harrowing combat and when she opens her mouth a completely different voice comes out. It would be spooky as hell. And yet, I feel it's worse to deny a LGBT character(s) possible happiness in such a way? They've each already been through a lot of poo poo, Veronica and Christine should be allowed to rule the Madre together, in my opinion. I could say it feels a bit gay-bait-like. (actual gay folks in this thread should sound in and tell me if I'm right or wrong/full of poo poo or whatever)
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Apr 8, 2018 02:37
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LashLightning posted:I could say it feels a bit gay-bait-like.
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Apr 8, 2018 03:07
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I really enjoyed Matthew Perry as Benny. Not sure where the hate came from. I've said before that if I could have sided with Benny as an ending, I would have. I tried so hard to get Benny to accept me, but dude just would not stop betraying meLashLightning posted:I could say it feels a bit gay-bait-like. (actual gay folks in this thread should sound in and tell me if I'm right or wrong/full of poo poo or whatever) (Disclaimer: not gay) I would say a gay-bait character is a character who's gay and that's their entire identity and backstory. The most obvious example that springs to mind is a JRPG on Xbox 360 that I cannot remember the name of. Basically he was super ultra gay and everything he said and did was about him being gay. Aha, found it: Enchanted Arms SolidSnakesBandana fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Apr 8, 2018 |
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Apr 8, 2018 03:30
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I really enjoyed Matthew Perry as Benny. Not sure where the hate came from. I've said before that if I could have sided with Benny as an ending, I would have. I tried so hard to get Benny to accept me, but dude just would not stop betraying me  absolutely loved the guy still always felt so good killing him in the Presidential Suit
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Apr 8, 2018 03:39
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:(Disclaimer: not gay) I would say a gay-bait character is a character who's gay and that's their entire identity and backstory. The most obvious example that springs to mind is a JRPG on Xbox 360 that I cannot remember the name of. Basically he was super ultra gay and everything he said and did was about him being gay. Bethesda would write that. See one-note drug addict Cait. LashLightning posted:And yet, I feel it's worse to deny a LGBT character(s) possible happiness in such a way? They've each already been through a lot of poo poo, Veronica and Christine should be allowed to rule the Madre together, in my opinion. Straight white dude here, and no idea what 'gay-bait' is, but I do agree that that was a dumb reason to do it the way they did. I'm not sure that the two getting reunited really fits with the themes of either NV itself, or DM especially. I think it'd be more apropos if you just had a few lines of dialogue to let Veronica know that Christine is still alive, albeit horribly damaged. Anything that ends with the two of them reunited just seems too storybook for a game like NV.
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Apr 8, 2018 03:42
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I could maybe see them getting back together and Veronica taking care of her and helping her heal and stuff. I agree it shouldn't just be a storybook ending because it would feel out of place, but I could see how they could make it work. Treating them differently due to their sexuality and giving them gay plot armor sounds pretty lame to me though, but I agree it's sad you don't get to mention it at all.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:06
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Raygereio posted:What? Sorry, turns out the term is Queerbaiting and I'm not quite using it in the right context. The characters outright say they're gay/were in such a relationship in this case.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:10
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Neither Christine or Veronica ever mentions the other by name. Maybe there is more than one same-sex couple in the Brotherhood Of Steel.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:23
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The amount of ways to kill Benny is so satisfying, but my absolute favorite was the time I just walked right into the casino, didn't even wait for his dialogue prompt to start and shot him in the head before walking right back out again. It was basically this scene.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:28
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2house2fly posted:Neither Christine or Veronica ever mentions the other by name. Maybe there is more than one same-sex couple in the Brotherhood Of Steel. Gonna go ahead and guess that there probably weren't that many lesbians couples around that age who were specifically broken up by and holding a grudge against Elijah, though.
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Apr 8, 2018 04:28
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It's still rather heavily implied since both Veronica and Christine had dealings with Elijah. Christine "leaving" the brotherhood seems to have been manipulated by Elijah, so as revenge she joined the internal affairs division to bring him to justice and avenge a personal wrong he did to her.
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Apr 8, 2018 05:11
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I still think FO4's brotherhood would have made more sense if they had been Circle Of Steel investigators suspicious of the Institute being a rogue/splinter BoS with newly discovered tech. At least makes more sense than them just Knowing about synths and the Institute, and flying across the commonwealth shouting "WE ARE HERE TO HELP" You could even retain the synth racism aspect, with multiple BoS subfactions arguing over how they are classified, with Maxson siding with "they count as old tech, we need to capture and mothball them". Danse could still face his personal crisis, but instead of live/die it would be "Loyal Weapon of the brotherhood", "you're a Real Boy, serve the Brotherhood in secret", and "you're a Real Boy, usurp Maxson and recruit the synths as brotherhood members". Considering Obsidian remains an independent studio, I wonder if there were any shared IP issues that necessitated ignoring NV ideas. Obviously there's likely some bad blood on Obsidian's side, but AFAIK Bethesda devs have no reason to dislike Obsidian or NV. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Apr 8, 2018 |
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Apr 8, 2018 05:21
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Bethesda just hire a larger team skyrim and fallout 4 were both enormous commercial successes just loving hire a bigger team just hire some more guys, just do it.
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Apr 8, 2018 05:30
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Mooktastical posted:Bethesda would write that. See one-note drug addict Cait. She's got a second character note! Terrible fake Irish accent in the far future where nobody has any idea what's on the other side of the Atlantic, or even that it's -called- the Atlantic!
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Apr 8, 2018 05:35
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Liquid Communism posted:She's got a second character note! Terrible fake Irish accent in the far future where nobody has any idea what's on the other side of the Atlantic, or even that it's -called- the Atlantic! That has bugged the gently caress out of me since FO3. it's been 200 years since the last trans-Atlantic voyage, HOW THE gently caress ARE YOU RUSSIAN/IRISH?
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Apr 8, 2018 05:38
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That was explained, she came from a vault whos only cultural archives were the O'Brien episodes of star trek https://m.facebook.com/doyletrek/
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Apr 8, 2018 05:39
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Neurolimal posted:Considering Obsidian remains an independent studio, I wonder if there were any shared IP issues that necessitated ignoring NV ideas. Obviously there's likely some bad blood on Obsidian's side, but AFAIK Bethesda devs have no reason to dislike Obsidian or NV. i think bethesda or obsidian hating each other only exists in the fevered imagination of bitter fallout fans
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Apr 8, 2018 06:39
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Berke Negri posted:i think bethesda or obsidian hating each other only exists in the fevered imagination of bitter fallout fans Well, Obsidian did get screwed out of a bonus for metacritic scores due to reviews that were negatively impacted by poor QA on bethesda's end (by one point, if I recall). IIRC that lead to a few layoffs (though not as much as Sega canceling their Aliens RPG and Microsoft randomly dropping their xbone project for no reason). I doubt there's any bad blood between the actual developers though.
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Apr 8, 2018 06:50
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I gotta say it was great when I finally got a dress for Veronica and she was so happy about it
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Apr 8, 2018 07:44
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They got laid off because development on F:NV ended and Obsidian had hired a bunch of extra people since that is to date the biggest project they've ever done.
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Apr 8, 2018 07:46
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LashLightning posted:And yet, I feel it's worse to deny a LGBT character(s) possible happiness in such a way? They've each already been through a lot of poo poo, Veronica and Christine should be allowed to rule the Madre together, in my opinion. (Actual gay person here) I agree with you, an ending where Veronica and Christine reunite at the Sierra Madre would have been fantastic. It wouldn't have been that hard to program either: after you complete the Dead Money DLC you have the option of telling her you know what happened to her girlfriend. At this point she would leave to go find her and you would lose her as a companion, but in the ending slide show you would learn that she and Christine are together and happy. It'd be nice for Veronica to have at least one chance at a happy ending (because as it stands every option available for her is terrible in the end). Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Apr 8, 2018 |
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Apr 8, 2018 08:00
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8one6 posted:That has bugged the gently caress out of me since FO3. it's been 200 years since the last trans-Atlantic voyage, HOW THE gently caress ARE YOU RUSSIAN/IRISH? I mean, weird to be defending Bethesda's worldbuilding, but Fallout 3 did mention that Tenpenny actually came over from England and apparently things are bad enough over there that Europeans still try and flee to America by boat on occasion so that sort of explains the Irish and the Bobrovs. The Nakamuras are the real confusing thing. Especially that they both have the accent, so there's at least two families of Japanese descended people with strong accents running around. I hope.
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Apr 8, 2018 11:56
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:(Actual gay person here) I agree with you, an ending where Veronica and Christine reunite at the Sierra Madre would have been fantastic. The reason there’s nothing like that with Veronica, or with Caesar about Joshua, is because they couldn’t put new content into the base game after the DLCs. The conversation with Veronica about Elijah was already in the game, disguised as being about another quest. So yeah, it would actually have been that hard to program
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Apr 8, 2018 12:41
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eating only apples posted:The reason theres nothing like that with Veronica, or with Caesar about Joshua, is because they couldnt put new content into the base game after the DLCs. The conversation with Veronica about Elijah was already in the game, disguised as being about another quest. So yeah, it would actually have been that hard to program That's not actually true, though. From a technical standpoint at least. Mods and DLC work the same way in the game engine, and mods almost exclusively add new content into the base game. Hell, GRA is just adding new content to the base game.
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Apr 8, 2018 13:21
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"Hey Veronica, Christine's still alive!" "..who?"
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Apr 8, 2018 13:51
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I'm pretty sure that's actually Ropekid being misquoted / misinterpreted when people parrot the "DLC can't touch the basegame" thing. Anyway DLC can affect the vanilla game. As far as the engine is concerned, the DLC's plugins aren't any different then those of mods. Things like adding new weapons to vendor/loot lists or adding new dialogue to existing NPCs can be done without problem. The DLCs even do those both two things. What the DLCs couldn't really do was add / change things to the gameworld. Things like new NPCs, clutter, etc. Anything that eats up vram. This was in the twilight years of the 7th console generation and the game ran face first into the limited memory of the consoles (PS3 in particular). Getting the base game to work at all was probably a frustrating task and even then they had to remove NPCs and other things via patching because the memory footprint still got too large. Having the DLCs add things to the gameworld would have been a nightmare of balancing memory usage and testing. So that's why the answer was always "No, because of technical reasons" when asked if the DLCs or patches could add content of the base game.
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Apr 8, 2018 13:56
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eating only apples posted:The reason there’s nothing like that with Veronica, or with Caesar about Joshua, is because they couldn’t put new content into the base game after the DLCs. The conversation with Veronica about Elijah was already in the game, disguised as being about another quest. So yeah, it would actually have been that hard to program i don't think this is the case at all. it's just a matter of not assigning resources to something very few people will see, and even fewer people will make the connection with. stuff like that is just the first kind of thing that gets cut when you're working with a limited time and budget Raygereio posted:I'm pretty sure that's actually Ropekid being misquoted / misinterpreted when people parrot the "DLC can't touch the basegame" thing. yeah trying to get the thing working on consoles is a good point, what with how inefficient that engine is at handling certain things. i'd say 'dlc can't add to the base game' is also tied in with delivering a saleable product - it's much easier to market 'a whole new area with a whole new story' and much easier to direct players (regardless of their familiarity with the game) towards this new content, especially in a game like this wherein if you added it to the existing world they might well miss the new content, or have already cleared the area out or somesuch. it's like the morrowind expansions - if you buy the game of the year edition that's on steam now and try to play it without mods that mitigate this behaviour, the game is smacking you in the face with the expansion content from the word go. everyone is talking about loving solstheim, you're getting attacked by assassins that, if you follow up on the attacks, direct you to the ridiculously high level endgame area from the tribunal expansion. it makes no sense now, but it makes sense in the context of how those expansions were made - it's 2003 and you've completed the main game so you buy the expansion and boom, you know exactly where to go. just the weird result of trying to square delivring a saleable piece of software with a story driven experience. i'm not a huge fan of the skyrim dlcs but they seemed to work out a decent way of doing things by that point; you know where to go but the game isn't hitting you over the head with it. Generic Monk fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Apr 8, 2018 |
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Apr 8, 2018 14:16
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Generic Monk posted:you know where to go but the game isn't hitting you over the head with it. Heard they're reforming the Dawnguard. Vampire hunters or something.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:01
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Neurolimal posted:Considering Obsidian remains an independent studio, I wonder if there were any shared IP issues that necessitated ignoring NV ideas. Obviously there's likely some bad blood on Obsidian's side, but AFAIK Bethesda devs have no reason to dislike Obsidian or NV.
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Apr 8, 2018 15:47
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Byzantine posted:"Hey Veronica, Christine's still alive!" Something which I started to wonder the second time I played Dead Money: How does the Courier learn Christine's name? You can use it in conversation with Dean before she regains her voice. Does the Courier read it off the conversation UI?
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Apr 8, 2018 18:54
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Vavrek posted:How does the Courier learn Christine's name? The quest to locate her is called "Find Collar 12: Christine" and Elijah put that quest in your pip-boy.
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Apr 8, 2018 19:03
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LashLightning posted:Sorry, turns out the term is Queerbaiting and I'm not quite using it in the right context. The characters outright say they're gay/were in such a relationship in this case. it's not queerbaiting. her getting sad endings is concurrent with every other companion including the extremely gay Arcade
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Apr 8, 2018 19:41
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also veronica is the worst companion dont quote me
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Apr 8, 2018 19:45
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2house2fly posted:The brand's reputation may have suffered due to New Vegas being so buggy and not being a drastic evolution from Fallout 3. I can see them worrying about it being perceived as a cheap cash-in. Haha, imagine a Bethesda title's reputation suffering due to bugginess.
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Apr 8, 2018 20:27
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Dongicus posted:it's not queerbaiting. Pretty much all of Veronica's endings are terrible for her. She pretty much always either ends up dead or a solitary wanderer. Arcade at least has happy endings. Even though some of them end up with him disillusioned with the Followers a lot of them end up with him happily working as a doctor for the rest of his life. Plus the game seems to really, really want you to blow up the Brotherhood. Even though she's more or less and outcast she isn't totally disconnected from them when you meet her. For better or worse that's her family but the game is like "hey you should murder all these people. Really. Do it. Do it now."
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Apr 8, 2018 21:24
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Dongicus posted:also veronica is the worst companion dont quote me "When Salt-Upon-Wounds burned New Canaan, he salted the earth so that nothing could grow there. What kind of monster could do this?"
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Apr 8, 2018 21:34
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Pretty much all of Veronica's endings are terrible for her. She pretty much always either ends up dead or a solitary wanderer. Arcade at least has happy endings. Even though some of them end up with him disillusioned with the Followers a lot of them end up with him happily working as a doctor for the rest of his life. the brotherhood deserve death, sorry.
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Apr 8, 2018 22:53
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West Coast BoS? agreed East Coast BoS are cool as gently caress though
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Apr 8, 2018 22:58
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we're talking about the good fallout games though
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Apr 8, 2018 23:00
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frajaq posted:West Coast BoS? agreed That's like trading authoritarians for a neo fascist cult.
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Apr 8, 2018 23:05
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