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Raygereio posted:From Elijah, I guess. Oh, that makes a ton of sense. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Apr 8, 2018 23:07
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Dongicus posted:the brotherhood deserve death, sorry. You don't really need to apologize for that since it's what the games (outside of Fallout 3) think too. The brotherhood are trying to do something that's both really dumb and really impractical. They think they're the good guys, they act like they're the good guys, but they're not the good guys and they don't do good things. They're a quasi-religious cult of out of touch zealots living in isolation and hoarding technology from people who need it (even as this technology becomes out of date as the world around them moves on). I sympathize with them, and the game does humanize them, but it's pretty clear in every game (except 3) that they're self-righteous morons and their organization needs to either fundamentally change (something they consistently refuse to do) or they're going to forever remain obsolete and ineffective.
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Apr 9, 2018 05:28
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The last time the Brotherhood developed something new (before they built the Prydwen) was a handful of laser weapons in Fallout 1. By contrast, the Enclave had nearly 150 years of nonstop technological progress since the bombs fell, and their power armor is far more advanced than the T-51 suits the brotherhood was stuck with until the T-60 retcon. I'm being kind of facetious with the lack of tech advancements but the point is they have lagged behind everyone else because they focused entirely on weapons. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Apr 9, 2018 |
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Apr 9, 2018 05:31
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i was glad that fallout 4 returned to the BOS being massive cunts the t-60 retcon doesnt really bother me as by the time any military project has been deployed to troops its successor is probably already in the works. the enclave power armour apparently being a pre-war thing is really dumb though. does anyone know any good lore-friendly weapon mods for fallout 4? or a good weapon rebalance mod? i really liked ropekids mod for new vegas but the fallout 4 survival mode really whomps chodes. i'm using some mystery mod from the last time I played the game called Weapon Overhaul, which is very specific. its ok.
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Apr 9, 2018 05:54
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Fallout 1 they were cool and good, ending even says they become a research and development house to help the wastelands. Fallout 2 retconned them to being people that just wanted to preserve tech. Then 3+ they became increasingly militant assholes
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Apr 9, 2018 05:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:The last time the Brotherhood developed something new (before they built the Prydwen) was a handful of laser weapons in Fallout 1. By contrast, the Enclave had nearly 150 years of nonstop technological progress since the bombs fell, and their power armor is far more advanced than the T-51 suits the brotherhood was stuck with until the T-60 retcon. Fallout Tactics has them develop new anti-robot tech. But Fallout Tactics is about the guys who were exiled for being, depending on who you listen to, either forward thinking go getters who believe in the potential of all humanity, or totalitarian fascist whackjobs who will let deathclaws drive tanks if it allows them to get access to a shiny new screwdriver.
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Apr 9, 2018 06:24
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chiasaur11 posted:will let deathclaws drive tanks if it allows them to get access to a shiny new screwdriver. I'm not seeing the issue.
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Apr 9, 2018 06:31
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chiasaur11 posted:Fallout Tactics has them develop new anti-robot tech. But Fallout Tactics is about the guys who were exiled for being, depending on who you listen to, either forward thinking go getters who believe in the potential of all humanity, or totalitarian fascist whackjobs who will let deathclaws drive tanks if it allows them to get access to a shiny new screwdriver. The midwest Brotherhood are what a faction would be like if an average player controlled a faction.
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Apr 9, 2018 06:35
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Azhais posted:Fallout 1 they were cool and good, ending even says they become a research and development house to help the wastelands. Fallout 2 retconned them to being people that just wanted to preserve tech. Given how much time has passed between the various games it's perfectly reasonable that they changed a lot. Really their fundamental philosophy is to control technology so the past doesn't happen again. There are some serious, fundamental flaws with that attitude. It'd be pretty difficult to keep being good guys with that kind of ethos going on. It also didn't help that the technology they hoarded didn't save them; they keep getting the poo poo kicked out of them and their self-righteous attitude toward what is and is not OK has always put them at odds with others. Becoming increasingly militant pricks really was inevitable. Even though after Fallout 1 they made nice with the wastes and shared technology they still had a strong desire to hoard it and prevent past issues. No way would they let the fanciest things into other peoples' hands and "we'll decide what is and is not OK for you to have" pretty much mandates becoming increasingly authoritarian. That also isn't exactly the best way to make pals with your neighbors especially with a strict policy of "no outsiders allowed with very few exceptions."
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Apr 9, 2018 06:41
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I really enjoyed Matthew Perry as Benny. Not sure where the hate came from. I think what makes Perry’s performance stand out noticeably is that the character is just so specifically written in a way that his line-reading just doesn’t get on board with. For instance, people have been citing Trejo as another bad performance, but it is at least a tired and disinterested reading of a perpetually tired and disinterested character. Whereas Benny is a slick, ruthless, wise-cracking smartass who just happens to sound like a baffled actor in a sound booth who’s too busy getting his head around the speech tics and idioms to display any emotion, whether he’s meant to be coldly ordering subordinates to clean up a bloodied apartment or frantically begging not to be crucified. Hate is a strong word, but he definitely stands out.
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Apr 9, 2018 07:17
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:You don't really need to apologize for that since it's what the games (outside of Fallout 3) think too. and even in 3s defense there's a lot going on where there's a lot of disagreement in the East Coast BoS leading to the Outcasts and such (who eventually, by FO4 time, won over the dispute)
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Apr 9, 2018 07:25
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grobbo posted:For instance, people have been citing Trejo as another bad performance, but it is at least a tired and disinterested reading of a perpetually tired and disinterested character. Yeah I had no problems with Raul's voice work there. He's a ghoul over 200 years old that has seen an unbelievable amount of poo poo. He's old, cranky, sarcastic, and has had enough of this crap. It worked for his overall attitude of "well, guess I'm with this chucklehead now. Whatever. Beats being locked up by Tabitha."
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Apr 9, 2018 07:47
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i gotta say i really like nuka world. feels really desolate when you're wandering between the areas. it's like the only place in the game that is built somewhat to scale and it really helps the feeling of post-apocalyptic emptiness.
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Apr 9, 2018 09:16
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The biggest problem with Benny is that the worst lines come in the one dialogue that's pretty much mandatory to have with him. Well, there's also the sex scene, but frankly that was hilarious and I wouldn't want it any other way. That said, on the whole, I think the "celebrities" in New Vegas cast gave pretty good performances. Kris Kristofferson in particular was excellent as Chief Hanlon.
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Apr 9, 2018 09:37
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:The biggest problem with Benny is that the worst lines come in the one dialogue that's pretty much mandatory to have with him. It’s been a couple of years now since I last played, so perhaps I’m being unfair, but I specifically remember the line “Let’s keep this in the groove, hey? Smooth moves...’ ..as 0% ‘slick hustler trying to charm his way out of a fight’ and 100% ‘muted, halting delivery of a man who doesn’t know what “keep it in the groove means” and is audibly trying to figure it out before he gets to the end of the paragraph.’
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Apr 9, 2018 12:18
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Its a shame particularly since Benny is a really good character - terrifying feral nomad wrapped up in faux 50's trappings. He was really neat and I think Perry could have been perfect. Must have been the direction. OR time constraints or whatever. LashLightning posted:And yet, I feel it's worse to deny a LGBT character(s) possible happiness in such a way? They've each already been through a lot of poo poo, Veronica and Christine should be allowed to rule the Madre together, in my opinion. Disagree completely. Veronicas arc is unfinished, which is probably why we don't get closure with the BOS stuff. But all the BOS stuff seems half finished and the chase for Elijah seems like it was just finished off with Dead Money. It's a shame. Arcade is a better rounded character imo and since the scope of his quest is smaller you get the closure Veronicas arc lacks. Liquid Communism posted:She's got a second character note! Terrible fake Irish accent in the far future where nobody has any idea what's on the other side of the Atlantic, or even that it's -called- the Atlantic! This is particularly weird. Irish characters keep popping up in FO. FO2 had McRae who taught you to box in Klamath I think? Then Moriarty in FO3 and Cait in FO4. Cait is annoying due to consisting of a bunch of irish stereotypes. Red haired, fighter with substance abuse problems. Brilliant. Ground breaking writing from Bethesda. Also the name Cait is pronounced "Catch" not Kate. Some internal conssitency in the games would be nice. They manage to keep the Elder scrolls lore pretty tight, and they change it to suit them and it makes sense. Why not with Fallout?
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Apr 9, 2018 13:58
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Southpaugh posted:Some internal conssitency in the games would be nice. They manage to keep the Elder scrolls lore pretty tight, and they change it to suit them and it makes sense. Why not with Fallout? Because they said as much (from interviews with Todd and comments by Pete Hines) that they consider the Fallout IP as their playground where "anything goes"
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Apr 9, 2018 14:02
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Southpaugh posted:Some internal conssitency in the games would be nice. They manage to keep the Elder scrolls lore pretty tight, and they change it to suit them and it makes sense. Why not with Fallout? oh boy I certainly consider Elder Scrolls to be rather creative in the use of stuff like pseudo-gnosticism as a way to make really fun, weird lore, but consistent is another thing entirely. CHIM as console cheats? Time-travelling cyborg as a possible temporal splinter of a god who killed himself? Bethesda really needs a core worldbuilding team to anchor development, and they don't need to be industry types for that to work: I am certain that there are more than enough game nerds with graduation in language and literature who would be fantastic for stuff like that. (also any solid fun builds for New Vegas that aren't sniper would be greatly appreciated  )
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Apr 9, 2018 16:41
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Weird wasteland, unarmed, fist of the north rawr
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Apr 9, 2018 17:08
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grobbo posted:It’s been a couple of years now since I last played, so perhaps I’m being unfair, but I specifically remember the line “Let’s keep this in the groove, hey? Smooth moves...’ You could argue that Benny doesn't know what it means... they were all random tribal dudes like only a few years prior to that, right?
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Apr 9, 2018 17:11
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Benny's dialogue always disappointed me because he's fine in the opening cutscene, but every appearance after that is just incredibly flat.
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Apr 9, 2018 17:18
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its really weird seeing the New Vegas Benny and then reading the All Roads graphic novel later Their personalities are so different
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Apr 9, 2018 18:27
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I think the BOS have a pretty noble goal of preserving tech, it's just that goal got corrupted along the way. Also, they only seem to hoard military tech, they don't seem interested in trying to salvage things that would improve civilian life. It's like if they're just waiting for all the wastelanders to die out before leaving their precious bunkers to resettle the land or something.
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Apr 9, 2018 18:38
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They made everyone look at their character models before doing the voice work and everyone matches perfectly with the lemon eaters of the Mojave desert
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Apr 9, 2018 18:46
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wafflemoose posted:I think the BOS have a pretty noble goal of preserving tech, it's just that goal got corrupted along the way. Also, they only seem to hoard military tech, they don't seem interested in trying to salvage things that would improve civilian life. It's like if they're just waiting for all the wastelanders to die out before leaving their precious bunkers to resettle the land or something. They do salvage non-military tech, they just dont do anything with it. In one of Veronicas' endings she laments recovering blueprints and documents for old-world agricultural machines that will never actually be used. Basically their goal is "well some sort of tech hosed society up, we should hoard as much of this stuff as possible so it doesn't happen again". Essentially techno-luddites.
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Apr 9, 2018 18:46
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You can still give that agriculture technology to OSI so the NCR can stave off starvation
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Apr 9, 2018 19:06
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Arcsquad12 posted:You can still give that agriculture technology to OSI so the NCR can stave off starvation I was kinda disappointed doing this didn't end up with an ending where the NCR sees insane outbreaks of mutant plant spores taking over swathes of their territory. Although you can still gently caress the NCR over pretty bad by turning any passage between their core territories and the Mojave into irradiated hell roads, ruining their biggest trading company and killing any of their leaders that could effectively right the ship. The bonus would be to do this all before talking to Ambassador Crocker and getting your reputation reset so you still end up as an NCR hero.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:21
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You really can only ruin crimson caravan's Mojave branch. And if you don't the correct ending for honest hearts then happy trails prospers on the northern routes
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Apr 9, 2018 19:34
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dead comedy forums posted:oh boy they did actually have one guy who was behind all the really interesting lore poo poo for elder scrolls, but I think he stopped being involved around the time of oblivion because their stock fantasy setting for oblivion poo poo on a lot of the lore he'd worked on. morrowind and daggerfall had really unified consistent lore poo poo that was weird as hell, but it fell apart for oblivion. skyrim seems like it tried to claw some stuff back, but they still compromised on things in a really weird lovely way.
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Apr 9, 2018 19:42
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wafflemoose posted:I think the BOS have a pretty noble goal of preserving tech, it's just that goal got corrupted along the way. Also, they only seem to hoard military tech, they don't seem interested in trying to salvage things that would improve civilian life. It's like if they're just waiting for all the wastelanders to die out before leaving their precious bunkers to resettle the land or something. It's not so much that their goal is corrupted as it is unfeasible right from the start. See, they seem to think they can control technology by stealing a bunch of weapons and data, but technology is more than just a bunch of stuff: it's thoughts and ideas. People figured out how to make guns, and if you take those guns away they'll make new guns, and then when you come back again they'll shoot you with those new guns because they're pissed off about you taking their old guns. As long as humanity exists technology will advance, and by isolating themselves from humanity in favor of squatting on a bunch of old world tech in a hole The Brotherhood are dooming themselves to failure in the long run. Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout New Vegas have a very clear and intentional pattern of the Brotherhood becoming more and more irrelevant. If Obsidian had made Fallout 4 the Brotherhood probably would have just been one sad old man in power armor guarding a mostly empty library. grobbo posted:For instance, people have been citing Trejo as another bad performance, but it is at least a tired and disinterested reading of a perpetually tired and disinterested character. Any one who think's Trejo's performance is bad is just flat out wrong, the deadpan way he's delivering the lines perfectly fits the character. juggalo baby coffin posted:i gotta say i really like nuka world. feels really desolate when you're wandering between the areas. it's like the only place in the game that is built somewhat to scale and it really helps the feeling of post-apocalyptic emptiness. Hey! I just started Nuka world too! My current plan is to get these raider to trust me just enough to let their guard down for a split second, then betray and slaughter them all. Although I feel a little bit guilty about it because I'm starting to honestly like this Porter Gage guy, and I love Andrew W.K.'s raider radio. which raider group should I be giving land to? Or does it not matter? Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Apr 9, 2018 |
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Apr 9, 2018 21:49
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juggalo baby coffin posted:they did actually have one guy who was behind all the really interesting lore poo poo for elder scrolls, but I think he stopped being involved around the time of oblivion because their stock fantasy setting for oblivion poo poo on a lot of the lore he'd worked on. morrowind and daggerfall had really unified consistent lore poo poo that was weird as hell, but it fell apart for oblivion. skyrim seems like it tried to claw some stuff back, but they still compromised on things in a really weird lovely way. Kirkbride seems good until you read anything he writes without an editor.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:19
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Hey wild ideas then realized by a rational editor seems like a good way to go
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Apr 9, 2018 22:24
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout New Vegas have a very clear and intentional pattern of the Brotherhood becoming more and more irrelevant. If Obsidian had made Fallout 4 the Brotherhood probably would have just been one sad old man in power armor guarding a mostly empty library. Hell, 3 fits into that just fine with Lyons trying to drag the Brotherhood into a new mission while the hardliners in the Outcasts are completely irrelevant to anything that happens.
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Apr 9, 2018 22:28
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:
It kinda matters if you want to keep the gangs around, but not if you plan on killing them all anyway. Spoilered just in case, but it's pretty minor: whichever gang you give the least territory to will betray you and force you to kill them. If you have given this gang any parts of the park, you can reclaim them and assign another gang. If you've given them outposts, clearing the location means you can give it to another gang or (I think) back to normal settlers. Killing any gang leader beyond the ones who betray you will make ALL the other gangs hostile, along with Gage (though there are mods to spare him) and Raider Radio will play one last message before going off the air permanently. Any outposts will then have to be retaken by force.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:08
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Byzantine posted:Hell, 3 fits into that just fine with Lyons trying to drag the Brotherhood into a new mission while the hardliners in the Outcasts are completely irrelevant to anything that happens. One thing they could have done to really drive this point home in Fallout 4 would have been revealing that she had been executed by the BoS for trying to do things too differently instead of just telling us she got killed in combat off screen. That would have fit in perfectly with the brotherhoods theme of self sabotage and devotion to dogma above common sense.
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Apr 9, 2018 23:17
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dead comedy forums posted:oh boy CHIM I remember, but who was the time traveling cyborg? The ending of the words is A L M V I S I
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Apr 9, 2018 23:51
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Hobo on Fire posted:It kinda matters if you want to keep the gangs around, but not if you plan on killing them all anyway. Do you get different rewards based on who you help? or is it purely an aesthetic choice? I'd rather let the Operators (they seem pretty suave) and the Pack (they like bright colors and animals, I can relate) live a bit longer and kill the Disciples (these guys freak me the gently caress out) off first. But this can change if I get better stuff killing someone else (before killing them all that is).
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Apr 9, 2018 23:58
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Nasgate posted:Kirkbride seems good until you read anything he writes without an editor. im not saying hes a good prose author, but he did produce one of the best fantasy universes of recent years in morrowind.
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Apr 10, 2018 00:26
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:CHIM I remember, but who was the time traveling cyborg? Pelinal Whitestrake is described as having a glowing heart, futuristic armor, and could shoot lasers from his hand. The Song of Pelinal speaks of him as quote:a diamond soaked red with the blood of elves, [whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time].
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Apr 10, 2018 01:41
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