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Frostbite is EA's engine so they bypass having to pay licensing fees to Epic, and they literally own the engine development team so if they want a complex or low-level feature, it can be added. DAI was the first RPG to use Frostbite, but MEA certainly won't be the last. Other EA studios using Frostbite will be able to take advantage of features added for Dragon Age, and vice versa. Unreal started out as a strongly FPS-y engine that was a pain to do other types of game with, too. EA is playing the long game by diversifying Frostbite rather than relying on other companies engines or half a dozen different in-house engines that have to re-invent the wheel half a dozen times.
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Apr 22, 2018 23:11
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Raygereio posted:I'm 99% sure the ME1 planets were churned out by a fractal landscape generator. So two things, to clarify what I mean: 1. They're definitely not procedurally generated as you play the game. I didn't follow Andromeda's development that much but it sounds like that was something they were planning on, a la no man's sky or minecraft or w/e 2. I agree with you that a lot of the terrain of those maps was probably generated by classic landscape algorithms BUT there's still some amount of detailing I think they did by hand. I distinctly remember certain maps had little roads sized for the Mako, and there's the crater where you fight the big worm thing*, and of course all the little prefab bunkers and whatnot had to be copy-pasted by hand. In hindsight this probably seems pedantic af but my point is, the maps in ME1 actually were created by somebody beforehand, they're not made on the fly. They're still bland *my brain keeps wanting to call it a nydus worm even though I know that's a starcraft thing
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Apr 23, 2018 01:29
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I think EA's mandate that they all use Frostbite was reasonable, but I also don't know a ton about development so I don't have much room to talk.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:38
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Game engines are not dark magic, they're just all different ways of making the thing do the things you want to do. Proprietary systems have to be invented and implemented all the time on new projects, this isn't anything new, so Frostbite lacking some RPG interface tools should not have completely crippled the production like it did. There's nothing inherently wrong with Frostbite except that Bioware Montreal evidently had no programmers experienced in it whatsoever and licensed out absolutely everything to ex-Soviet bloc subsidiaries who ran face_rig_algorithm.exe and called it a day.
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Apr 23, 2018 01:46
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Bioware Montreal probably could have had the best engine for shooter-RPGs imaginable and it wouldn't have covered up for the fact that no one really had any proper ideas for it and it was a blatant sequel-y cash grab
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Apr 23, 2018 02:00
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exquisite tea posted:Game engines are not dark magic, they're just all different ways of making the thing do the things you want to do. Proprietary systems have to be invented and implemented all the time on new projects, this isn't anything new, so Frostbite lacking some RPG interface tools should not have completely crippled the production like it did. There's nothing inherently wrong with Frostbite except that Bioware Montreal evidently had no programmers experienced in it whatsoever and licensed out absolutely everything to ex-Soviet bloc subsidiaries who ran face_rig_algorithm.exe and called it a day. All right, fair enough. You're definitely right in that even if they did have to re-invent the wheel, a well-managed production would've accounted for that in the first place.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:33
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Bioware Montreal switched the software they were using to do faces and animations a couple of times during Andromeda's development, too, and the work they did on one couldn't be transferred. Andromeda was incredibly badly managed.
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Apr 23, 2018 02:36
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Andromeda isn't bad. Andromeda is poo poo lmao
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Apr 23, 2018 04:41
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Nah, not bad != good. It's bad. Yes there are worse, in the same way as there are worse films than The Emoji Movie. But it's still bad.
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Apr 23, 2018 10:59
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The andrmeda memes were v. good & 🔥 tho
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Apr 23, 2018 13:44
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I actually really like Andromeda. Not as much as the main trilogy, but I don't think it's really that bad.  I mean, it had lots of bad stuff about it when it came out, but the later patches fixed a lot of the bad face stuff/animations. They even patched Peebee's gun so it was facing the right way around in that one cutscene. This was never changed, though: 
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Apr 23, 2018 23:20
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A Buff Gay Dude posted:Andromeda is poo poo lmao  Taear posted:It's bad. Yes there are worse, in the same way as there are worse films than The Emoji Movie. This is hyperbole. But Andromeda still isn't good.
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Apr 24, 2018 00:11
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i really liked the feel of moving around in andromeda with the jump pack and boosting around the, uh, environment you moved around in wasn't so great, but the moving around was fun
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Apr 24, 2018 00:16
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PureRok posted:I actually really like Andromeda. Not as much as the main trilogy, but I don't think it's really that bad. I stayed out of the Andramada, but the gif makes me think Bioware could have maayyyybe gotten away with calling it a space comedy instead. Especially with a character holding a laser zap gun backwards, wowzers.
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Apr 24, 2018 00:35
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Is Andromeda better or worse than DA2, hype aside? Because it sounds like most people's issues with DA2 eventually just boiled down to reused assets, while Andromeda had... a bunch of other problems.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:23
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ApplesandOranges posted:Is Andromeda better or worse than DA2, hype aside? Because it sounds like most people's issues with DA2 eventually just boiled down to reused assets, while Andromeda had... a bunch of other problems. I think Andromeda is worse - my biggest issues are with overall gameplay design. The actual running, shooting, and jetpacking is pretty fun and the Nomad is fun once you get it upgraded. But it's so drat rare to actually get an adventure where you're just off doing poo poo for a while. 80% of the game or more is monotonous fetch quests and "go talk to this guy on one end of the galaxy, go click on something on a planet on the other end of the galaxy, then go to a third guy on a completely different hub city to turn it in" separated by lots of loading screens. The biggest reason your mileage might vary, in my opinion, is your tolerance for poorly used open world nonsense. That game design fad needs to die. Andromeda's UI is godawful to boot.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:27
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ApplesandOranges posted:Is Andromeda better or worse than DA2, hype aside? Because it sounds like most people's issues with DA2 eventually just boiled down to reused assets, while Andromeda had... a bunch of other problems. Also I ordered one o' them hoodies from the BW store and it got here today. It's actually pretty nice, not the original $70 pricetag nice, but this was  and I'd call it a bargain if you can find something you like in your size.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:34
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Andromeda is worse than DA2. DA2, at the very least, is connected to Dragon Age as a whole. It fits into the narratives of Origins and Inquisition. Andromeda doesn't. Also, I say that as someone who liked it more than most people.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:40
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I've been watching SFDebris's retrospective of DA2 lately and it is absolutely not a better game than Andromeda. I hated it when it came out and it has only gotten worse and more embarrassing with age. Although you could argue that it's more noteworthy than Andromeda - every moment of DA2 is agonizing to play or watch, but Andromeda just feels like neutral static the entire time, so take your pick.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:43
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DA2 feels like it has a reason for existing though. Andromeda doesn't. Andromeda never overcomes its incredibly awkward premise that it's a sequel that wants to have nothing at all to do with the three very successful games that came before it.
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Apr 24, 2018 01:45
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DA2 was better than Andromeda because it has enough emotional weight for me to hate characters in it, where with Andromeda I just hated myself for playing it instead of doing something more fun, like laundry or buying groceries.
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Apr 24, 2018 03:38
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yeah DA2 is not a good game but it has an actual heart to it and your relationships with your party can be p. varied ME:A is hollow all the way through
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Apr 24, 2018 03:44
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Varric and Aveline are likeable and memorable characters. Anders blowing up the Chantry, Corypheus shoeing up and Qunari causing trouble were imporzant stepping stones for Inwuisition and beyond. And they were consistent with what came in Origins. Who was surprised that the mage-templar relationship collapsed? If you really listened to Sten, was the trouble with the Arishok unexpected? SFDebris is right that Hawke has little agency, but DA2 is still important for the DA games going forward. And many of the bad parts are for once proveably not Bioware's fault. The worst offenders are the asset reuse and the too short Act 3 (not enough development time), plus Orsino turning into an abomination (execs wanted a big boss fight). So that's EA's fault. And despite that, the DA team managed to make Inquisition, which was a good game.
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Apr 24, 2018 07:32
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ApplesandOranges posted:Is Andromeda better or worse than DA2, hype aside? Because it sounds like most people's issues with DA2 eventually just boiled down to reused assets, while Andromeda had... a bunch of other problems. Better combat and environments, worse in ever other respect, so it depends what's most important to you in a game. For me the sheer dullness of almost all Andromeda's quests and NPCs is much the worst problem.
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Apr 24, 2018 08:41
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ApplesandOranges posted:Is Andromeda better or worse than DA2, hype aside? Because it sounds like most people's issues with DA2 eventually just boiled down to reused assets, while Andromeda had... a bunch of other problems. That's not the only problem with DA2, no. Is it this time of the thread again? "DA2 is not actually that bad guys"  ME:A wastes its premise almost immediately and almost every aspect of the game is thoroughly  , but it's not aggressively bad like DA2. The only reason DA2 is "important" for the following game is because they took some of the actually good characters and some DLC plot development out of the terrible game and put them into a better one, but you could do the same with characters/plot from a novel. When it's not just awful like the mageocaust plot or the hilariously bad city, visuals and combat, the rest of DA2 is as forgettable and ultimately pointless as rebooting a sci-fi series in a different galaxy then doing everything exactly the same way again.E: I'll agree DA2's best characters are better than ME:A's best characters, but it still had plenty of bad ones (also companions). orcane fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 09:37
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At least I liked DA2's characters. I can't really say that for Andromeda.
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Apr 24, 2018 09:40
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DA2 has lots of funny dialogue. While it’s not a great RPG in a technical sense, the humour elevates it over many other games.
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Apr 24, 2018 10:02
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The one way DA2 is better is the game is often unintentionally funny in a "trainwrecks are fun to watch" sort of way, so I can see the entertainment value. MEA had some funny glitches (many of which have been patched since) but it usually evokes the feeling of "what is this lame poo poo,  "
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Apr 24, 2018 10:15
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Like I compared before, Andromeda is a lot like the Emoji movie. It's got some technical flair and had a lot spent on it but it's soulless and awful. DA2 is more like San Andreas. The people involved seem to be having fun and although it's still mostly poo poo there's a bit of something in there you might enjoy.
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Apr 24, 2018 12:22
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I like to think that maybe with more time DA2 could have been not-poo poo, but I don't feel like more time would have helped elevate MEA beyond the soulless dreck it was.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:47
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I hate the art design in DA2. Tbh Origins looks better to me. Da2 looks so cartoonish at times. The first time I played it the way the Darkspawn looked was a huge turn off immediately. That said I've beaten Da2 a few times and I actually do like it. Mark of the Assassin is a fun dlc.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:02
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I bought DA2 quite a while after it came out (like 6 months, maybe?) so I went into it with incredibly low expectations, as everyone seemed to hate it. I ended up actually quite liking it as a result. I won't dispute that the game is lazy as gently caress (in terms of reusing maps, being set only in the one city and its surroundings, and long corridors and whatnot), but I actually prefer my games to be more linear. It's why I disliked Inquisition, it felt like a MMORPG without the MM (read: other loving people) bit... which is just... bad? The only thing I wasn't a huge fan of in DA2 is that the combat is more "arcadey" and less "strategic", which should/could translate to "more fun", but since a lot of enemies (even just "random-evil-pleb-you-encounter-on-the-street") are massive sacks of hit points that take about 100 chops to the face with your giant-fuckoff 2-handed sword (or whatever), it just feels a bit off to me. There are also some really bizarre aesthetic choices, like making elves all look like weird bug-eyed monstrosities and having literally every woman (including the player character's mother who is implied to be about 50 or so, but not the default female player character herself) sport enormous, gravity-defying breasts. Anyway, for those who have heard bad things about DA2 but never played it: if you can find it on the cheap and manage your expectations, it ain't that bad, yo. Try to look at it as its own thing rather than a sequel to (the admittedly far superior) Origins.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:35
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Burning Sensation posted:I bought DA2 quite a while after it came out (like 6 months, maybe?) so I went into it with incredibly low expectations, as everyone seemed to hate it. I ended up actually quite liking it as a result. My main issue with DA2 (beyond recycled areas) is the time skips being shittily done. It's like it's been days. And often like you haven't seen each other in the intervening time at all.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:41
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Taear posted:My main issue with DA2 (beyond recycled areas) is the time skips being shittily done. It's like it's been days. And often like you haven't seen each other in the intervening time at all. Honestly, I haven't played the actual game in a really long time, so I don't remember that specific thing being bad or good (though I do remember it covers like 10 years?), but the story is pretty generic in general. It's not bad enough to put me off playing it or anything, but it does feel like "filler", kinda like a "MEEEEAANWHILE......" to the previous game's story, which is actually good and cool. It's like "here's a game set in the Dragon Age universe to tide you over until we feel like actually putting effort into making a REAL sequel, peasant". I do remember liking Varric and hating pretty much everyone else, but I don't really play these games to be best buds with pixel men, so I dunno. Varric was a pretty cool pixel man, to be fair. There was also an elf who was either annoying, or amusing, seemingly dependent on which way the wind was blowing. Everyone else was as GENERIC NPC ALLY as it gets. I remember Qunari being involved and a hilarious Benny Hill style boss battle where he's literally invincible unless you run around like a lunatic and kite him in an attempt to not get one-shot by his enormous penis-compensating axe, but that's as far as my recollection of the main story (excluding DLC) goes, really (also aside from the usual templar/mage shenanigans). I actually remember this with fondness because of how epic the trailer made that particular boss battle look and how ridiculous it actually is in practice. Maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment, who knows? Story is, once again: mages are bad, but maybe not! But templars are bad too so... uh.. yeah?. Now with 50% more Qunari. Standard Dragon Age fare...? v  vJust to be clear, I totally understand why people dislike this game, and it's definitely justified, I just think that, given the chance, there is actually some fun to be squeezed out of this title if you can look past its er... blemishes.
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Apr 24, 2018 18:58
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I’m a big defender of DA2 and while it’s recycling of assets is lazy and cheap, I vastly prefer its story and characters to that in Origins.
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Apr 24, 2018 19:02
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Oh, have we entered the "DA2 was bad!/No it wasn't!" cycle of the thread again? Suppose it's as good a time as any to mention that I played DA2 after all the hullabaloo had came and went, and... you know, I didn't find it bad either. I was expecting a completely reprehensible, borderline unplayable turd, and the product I got was... aggressively mediocre, but hardly the catastrophe I'd come to expect. I mean, when you come down to it, it just seems like a game that was put out before it was done. And there were certain ideas that were good. I liked the idea of the smaller scaled story of a guy trying to get by, I liked the idea of the friendship/rivalry system because it allowed you to speak your actual mind about your companions and their ideas without worrying that they might leave you... I didn't really like the new combat because I'm one of those weirdos that like fooling around with the strategic battle camera, but I see the point of streamlining things; not everyone wants to fool around in a single battle for hours. I don't even have a lot of problems with the plotting or the writing, really- it might have leaned too heavily on... certain crutches of drama to get the point across, let's say, but I see where they were going with the plot beats, and it's fine. It's OK. It's not great, and sure, it would have been nice to see more character choice reflected in the story and world, but the bottom line is, this is still a written property being produced by a few people and it's not like they can possibly account for all that might happen. They had a plan for how the cataclysm, the inciting incident that caused the Mage Revolt, would happen, a plan that you can see the traces of all through Origins as well; it didn't come from nowhere, as some people claimed. But that's kinda a whole other posts. That having been said... the visual presentation was not good. The artistic design of all characters was rough and got rougher at the lower settings, and even beyond the revolution was just plain weird. The animation is janky, hilariously so in some places, and the combat seems a bit too dumbed down at times, until you're just pushing a button over and over until the bad guys fall down. There were not enough environments to justify the amount of time we spent in them, doing largely the same quest of fetching a thing/ killing some guys (some people think Inquisition feels more like an MMO, but for me, it doesn't have a patch on DA2), there were not enough character models to accommodate the amount of characters or their ages (you really do notice it when everyone has the same male/female model, I promise; happened in the first mass effect, happened here) and as had been mentioned, the timeskips were handled poorly, with a matter of months/years being treated like an absence of a few weeks by all of the characters involved. They could have fixed that with a few more passes, introduced a few more comments ingame about a shared history between these characters- indeed, ALL of these problems might have been at least mitigated by another year or two of development. But no, they rushed it out... and what would have been merely a disappointment was compounded by massive hype before and... all the stuff that came after. The condescending dismissal of arguments, the obvious shill reviews, the endless parade of people telling us what we were actually playing was great and we were just too fill-in-the-blank to really get it, maaan....I'm not loving going to bat for that behavior, because that is indefensible. But I see some of the things we said and did back then (especially in the really kind of uncomfortable misogyny of some of the stuff leveled against Jennifer Hepler, Sheryl Chee, and anyone else who happened to be a female and involved) and I think, "Guys... really?"
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Apr 24, 2018 19:09
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resurgam40 posted:Oh, have we entered the "DA2 was bad!/No it wasn't!" cycle of the thread again? Suppose it's as good a time as any to mention that I played DA2 after all the hullabaloo had came and went, and... you know, I didn't find it bad either. I was expecting a completely reprehensible, borderline unplayable turd, and the product I got was... aggressively mediocre, but hardly the catastrophe I'd come to expect. This time it's more about if Mass Effect Andromeda is worse than DA2. And even as someone who really hated DA2 I'm saying the answer is "yes, it is worse".
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Apr 24, 2018 19:38
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Don't y'all make me post the like 8000x8000px image of Chris priestly
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Apr 24, 2018 19:45
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People wanted a sequel to DAO. No one wanted a sequel to ME3. DA2 wins.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:25
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Taear posted:This time it's more about if Mass Effect Andromeda is worse than DA2. Oh, for sure.
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Apr 24, 2018 22:42
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