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PMush Perfect posted:As a reminder, the original roguelikes were intended to be beaten by groups of college students coordinating and experimenting together. Spoilers have been in the genre's blood from the very beginning. And "spoilers" is just a dumb term those groups decided to use so they could rag on players who hadn't been playing each game since it first showed up on the university system.
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Apr 23, 2018 14:49
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i respect people who avoid spoilers for their roguelikes but i cant live that way
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Apr 23, 2018 15:01
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Here's a neat game which recently released a demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P96O3xKpWmc Which you can find here https://www.alphabetagamer.com/lovecrafts-untold-stories-alpha-demo/
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Apr 24, 2018 00:42
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Harminoff posted:Here's a neat game which recently released a demo This isn't necessarily a roguelike as it is a card game, but it features permadeath, resource management, a RNG, and no metaprogression, but IS hard as hell and really fun, with amazing Art Deco graphics. This is for Android, and it is called Underhand (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=edu.cornell.gdiac.underhand). It is apparently the product of a class from Cornell, and appears 100% free as well as microtransaction free. Quite amusing.
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Apr 24, 2018 04:32
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Anyone poo poo-talking Ziggurat should be banned from playing any games involving wizards.
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Apr 24, 2018 13:22
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It's a lovely bog-standard first person (arena) shooter disguised as a wizard game. Hexen/Heretic do a better job at being both and they came out years earlier.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:04
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Samizdata posted:This isn't necessarily a roguelike as it is a card game, but it features permadeath, resource management, a RNG, and no metaprogression, but IS hard as hell and really fun, with amazing Art Deco graphics. This is for Android, and it is called Underhand (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=edu.cornell.gdiac.underhand). It is apparently the product of a class from Cornell, and appears 100% free as well as microtransaction free. This is cool as hell. Almost failed to summon my demon god because I got sidetracked eating all my cultists and repeatedly robbing the grocery store I worked at.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:05
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tote up a bags posted:Having played a lot of DCSS (and some Nethack) I don't understand how people can handle ADOM without it just being an exercise in Wiki reading. There seem to be an insane number of ways to gently caress yourself over (first kill etc.) and so many things you would just have to arbitrarily guess (requirements for Chaos gate, demented ratling etc) Nobody ever got hosed up by skipping Courage in ADOM, it's just a way to mitigate poor positioning. It's also one of the most transparent things in the game - the Old Barbarian will tell you if you're making progress each time you visit him even if you don't know your first kill, and after the first time you get the quest you know to record it. Finding Filk is tougher, but you only need to do that for an Ultra. By the time you're ready to try that, you already know a lot more about the game.
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Apr 24, 2018 14:21
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PMush Perfect posted:As a reminder, the original roguelikes were intended to be beaten by groups of college students coordinating and experimenting together. Spoilers have been in the genre's blood from the very beginning. This is a really good point. To be fair I only managed to beat Crawl with a huge amount of Wiki usage, and Crawl's gotta be the most straight up "kill a lot of dudes and then get something and you win" of them all
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Apr 24, 2018 15:13
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The only wizard game that actually gets playing a wizard right is Fictorum. Underhand was fun for a while, but I always eventually found myself in a loop that I couldn't get out of due to the tiny deck size and the cards in it. I'd still be able to keep the game going and survive, but I'd end the deck with the same amount of resources as I had the last time. I bought Card Quest thanks to this thread and really like it so far. I'm playing through the tutorials, first, and like the puzzle aspect of them.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:23
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OutOfPrint posted:The only wizard game that actually gets playing a wizard right is Fictorum. Magicka got it right too. Fictorum looks interesting but the reviews are giving me a bad vibe.  One way or the other, Ziggurat is terrible.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:30
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RyokoTK posted:Magicka got it right too.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:41
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Fictorum is very interesting but it's also incredibly amateurish, which is not surprising considering it's their first game. I definitely recommend trying it though, once it goes on sale. Blowing up building and killing dudes (and yourself) with the resulting debris is quite fun.
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Apr 24, 2018 15:41
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Underhand is good, but they made an odd choice where your deck is randomized, and sometimes the deck you get simply can't produce the pieces you need to win. For instance, many gods require a relic to summon, and your deck may only have one chance to get a relic in it, ever (some cards, including most of the relic sources, get removed from the deck when you use them, instead of getting reshuffled). If you lose the relic, which can happen just due to bad luck, you are now stuck in an unwinnable state. That said, it's quite fun to play and I love the aesthetic. Dangit, it's the tax man again! Why now? I can't pay taxes, I have to funnel all this money into my illicit tea shop to appease the dragon god of tea and prosperity!
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Apr 24, 2018 15:59
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Yeah, Underhand does have an element of luck to it (which weirdly kind of works, as it compliments the "attempting to appease distant and inscrutable elder gods" theme), but I've also found that it becomes quite a bit easier when you work out that "never, ever, ever go over 15 cards if you can possibly help it" is one of the most important rules in the game. Greed will absolutely gently caress your hand up, and if you're hoarding a relic that you need to summon your god, Greed will definitely take it away. Use events like the wandering trader as a means of grinding up cards - deliberately take a loss whenever you can sustain it so you can keep your hand size manageable. Also, only take the "get a bunch of X card but a lot of suspicion too" options like kidnapping/indoctrinating the lost children if you desperately need the cards on offer right now, because getting raided by the cops and surviving only takes away half of your current suspicion, so you end up being much more likely to get into a cycle where you repeatedly get raided and get more cultists to survive the next raid and get raided because you're openly recruiting etc.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:08
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Yeah, keeping things as low-key as possible is definitely the big trick, and I like that that is entirely on brand. You're a cult, you don't want to be doing TOO well, because somebody might notice. You can rob a bank, but it's hardly ever worth it because the piles of cash and suspicion you get are way too big to reasonably fit in your hand.
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Apr 24, 2018 16:23
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That's why the tea shop dragon is hands down the best old god to get blessed by. The random tea shipments are incredibly good for how cheap they are to purchase, and Assassination is outright one of the best recurring blessing events in the game. I say "one of" because Wendigoo's Organ Harvest is also absurdly good; having both of them in your deck gives you an tremendous degree of control over your food, money, and suspicion if you can plan ahead using Foresight or careful forethought. Never drink the forbidden tea, though.
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Apr 24, 2018 17:38
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RyokoTK posted:Magicka got it right too. Fictorum looks interesting but the reviews are giving me a bad vibe. True, I forgot about Magicka. Really, the only good wizard games are ones where there are no character options outside of "you're a wizard" and give you the tools to die from your own hubris in funny way. Fictorum is janky as all hell. The graphics are dated, it isn't optimized well at all, the AI pretty much matches the behavior of enemies from DCSS, and it's a perfect example of a game whose ambition vastly outpaced its budget, but you start off feeling powerful, can rig up spells to get stupidly powerful, and raining meteors on houses and bridges is really fun. I definitely recommend it when it's on sale. $20 is a bit too steep for it. EDIT: Now that I think about it, has there ever been a roguelike on this kind of premise? One where you play a wizard with spellbook powerful enough to be called and arsenal with destructible environments could be really fun. "Oh, poo poo, this goblin king is a turn away from shanking my wizard rear end in this tiny throne room and the only spell I have is Cluster Nuke. Oh well, time to nuke him and this entire goblin village!" If not, I might have a downtime project to work on. OutOfPrint fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 17:40
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I'm kind of having a flashback to the Ultima series. The Armageddon spell, in particular. Which upon casting destroyed ALL life in the entire game world. On a different thread, anyone have an opinion on The Swords of Ditto?
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Apr 24, 2018 18:08
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LordSloth posted:I'm kind of having a flashback to the Ultima series. The Armageddon spell, in particular. Which upon casting destroyed ALL life in the entire game world.
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Apr 24, 2018 18:19
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PMush Perfect posted:Yourself included? No, nor your party members. Everyone else though, yeah absolutely. Have fun wandering through a game world that's been reduced to a ghost town!
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Apr 24, 2018 18:25
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There's nothing quite like booting up IVAN, drinking from the first fountain you see, getting turned into an ommel tooth golem, sprinting back to Attnam, running up to Rachel Decos, and just absolutely loving obliterating him and all his guards before turn 250  e: walked into magic mushroom bubbles, got teleported adjacent to a kamikaze dwarf, and got blown the gently caress up. Yeah, that's pretty much what I expected. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 20:30
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Sage Grimm posted:It's a lovely bog-standard first person (arena) shooter disguised as a wizard game. Hexen/Heretic do a better job at being both and they came out years earlier. Hold the gently caress on there, Ziggurat isn't great but it absolutely does not deserve to be called as bad as Hexen. Did the devs run over your cat or something?
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Apr 24, 2018 20:43
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My understanding is mostly that if you like Ziggurat at all, you should be playing Immortal Redneck instead. Same gameplay style with less clunkiness and more fun.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:25
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The biggest difference between Ziggurat and Immortal Redneck, for me, is that in Immortal Redneck I can point to what I did wrong, both in micro (should have zigged when I zagged) and macro (I should have kept my old gun), whereas Ziggurat I remember constantly thinking "well great, I'm dying because the game decided to throw Some Bullshit at me." It's entirely possible I was doing things wrong in Ziggurat too, but I couldn't tell, and that made the game feel arbitrary and unfair. Well, that and the suckiness of most of the guns. Immortal Redneck has vastly better gunfeel.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:30
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my biggest issue with ziggurat is the weapons and weapon feedback feel like rear end
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Apr 24, 2018 21:31
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Awesome! posted:my biggest issue with ziggurat is the weapons and weapon feedback feel like rear end This was my problem with the game as well, weapons feeling good to use has a shockingly high effect on a players general perception of a game.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:33
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LordSloth posted:On a different thread, anyone have an opinion on The Swords of Ditto? It seems to be structured a little bit like Rogue Legacy or Immortal Redneck in that the metaprogression is the game, and that individual deaths or victories are in service of like an overarching story victory. I died once, and it carried my XP and gold to my next character, but all of the items I had were lost. And I think upgrades you find are permanent, but I haven't got any yet. And I have one victory, which took like two and a half hours, so it's kind of long, but it's not very hard. I'm not sure what happens after you win since I had to leave for work, but it's fun and the art style is good, and it's a little on the easier side. You have a time limit, which you can spend a special currency to extend, and clearing additional dungeons makes Mormo (the final boss) easier, so you're definitely in a bit of a time crunch to advance through the overworld as much as possible before the final battle approaches and you have to drop everything and fight her. So far it feels like a cross between Dungeonmans and Link’s Awakening, which is a good pairing to me. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 21:36
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Ziggurat occupies the same space in my mind as Rogue Legacy and Sigmund Freud. They were all formative in their respective fields, but we've learned so much between then and now that they are not relevant outside of a historical perspective and, in hindsight, were pretty bullshit.
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Apr 24, 2018 21:52
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I'm suspicious of rogue legacy being formative of anything and OBLIGE existed way before ziggurat 
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Apr 24, 2018 22:05
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immortal redneck is strictly better than ziggurat in every single way
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Apr 24, 2018 22:12
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FRINGE posted:Im not one of the video game master people and I thought it was fine. I also liked the gimmick/spin themes on the old original DnD modules as backgrounds/interludes. its the late game in card hunters that is problematic. like half way through the game everything just gets so much loving stronger that if you have any minor cards you're gonna just get loving crushed. AkumaHokoru fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Apr 24, 2018 |
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Apr 24, 2018 22:15
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Like the army of people that hated Torment for being "too much reading" (which was exactly what it was designed to be and marketed as).
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Card Quest is so good wtf
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Apr 24, 2018 22:55
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LordSloth posted:I'm kind of having a flashback to the Ultima series. The Armageddon spell, in particular. Which upon casting destroyed ALL life in the entire game world. I never really thought about it much but it was definitely cool how the last level of spells in ultima were like too powerful for the game world.
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Apr 24, 2018 23:46
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AkumaHokoru posted:its the late game in card hunters that is problematic. like half way through the game everything just gets so much loving stronger that if you have any minor cards you're gonna just get loving crushed.
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Apr 25, 2018 00:31
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Johnny Joestar posted:immortal redneck is strictly better than ziggurat in every single way This is the gospel. At a cursory glance, Immortal Redneck shouldn't be any good: It's made by a tiny developer whose previous experience consisted solely of forgettable mobile games, it aimed for a very specific genre that's apparently difficult to do "correctly", and the concept of the game (Redneck in Egypt) came off as a really "meh" goofy concept. But the game is good. Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 00:59
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:This is the gospel. At a cursory glance, Immortal Redneck shouldn't be any good: It's made by a tiny developer whose previous experience consisted solely of forgettable mobile games, it aimed for a very specific genre that's apparently difficult to do "correctly", and the concept of the game (Redneck in Egypt) came off as a really "meh" goofy concept. Scrolls are poo poo But the rest is fun
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Apr 25, 2018 01:41
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:Goblin camp gives a good survivability boost to new characters with free gear + rocks to throw. Borderland settlement is free pre-crowns pretty much and has a potion shop. The random dungeons and Ice Queen Domain help make the jump up to ToEF not a loving brick wall (get this--ToEF is now a thing people wind up doing before water temple because it's Just That Easy Now). The Rolf Questline is very involved and extremely difficulty at the end but parts of it will get you good weapon + shield, and if you don't care about it you can use parts of it to easily satisfy the demented ratling and not have to give up any useful artifacts instead. Merchant's guild is extremely dangerous to try to clear but you get 4 artifacts if you do. The heavenly area is very dangerous but hey its part of Kherab's third quest (a.k.a. not worth it, also you have to be The Worst Alignment for it to appear). Antediluvian jungle is so obscure and not useful that you probably won't bother generating it. Just wondering, is there anywhere that has a writeup of the new content in-depth, kinda like the old unauthorized guide? I had a couple wins way back forever and am interested in trying it again with the tiles and other upgrades.
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Apr 25, 2018 01:47
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The complaints about Ditto on RPS sounded like a deal killer to me. It looks adorable but long unskippable stuff on each death is pretty dire for a RL.
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Apr 25, 2018 02:18
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The Immortal Redmeck guys figured out that just because it’s a roguelike, it still has to be mechanically fun to play with starting stats. Hence the crazy movement speed and acrobatics. If anything, I would say it’s almost too well balanced, since there isn’t an inherent reason to switch from your starting guns at any point other than personal preference and most of the guns are perfectly decent. e: I don’t know what unskippable stuff they were referring to but Ditto is definitely pretty long. We’ll see when I get back to it after winning. e2: it’s actually kind of weird since the Steam page and the marketing seem to not mention that it’s a roguelike at all, it plays a lot more into the Zelda aspect. Which is fine, it definitely plays like Zelda and it doesn’t seem to have a ton of run variability, but then why have the permadeath? RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Apr 25, 2018 |
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Apr 25, 2018 02:29
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