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Yes, Victoria pops. Because what Stellaris needs most is more micromanagement.
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Apr 27, 2018 20:50
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GunnerJ posted:Wiz just told me Stellaris is being reworked into a single player story experience a la "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" with the Blorg as the player empire. Starring Mercedes Romero.
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Apr 27, 2018 20:59
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Peachfart posted:Yes, Victoria pops. Because what Stellaris needs most is more micromanagement. You should play Victoria 2, it's good.
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Apr 27, 2018 20:59
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Peachfart posted:Yes, Victoria pops. Because what Stellaris needs most is more micromanagement. victoria pops* are less micro-y than tiles *victoria 2 pops that is. pop-splitting can stay dead thanks LordMune posted:I'm not a programmer and I obviously can't make any promises, certainly not for 2.1, but how would you like this to work? As a property (pointing to an icon texture) in the system/planet initializers, or an effect run in an event that adds/removes an icon(s) in system/planet scope? hey mune while you're here start_colony doesn't accept a species parameter even though the documentation says it should - it just grabs the founder species Jazerus fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 21:02
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GunnerJ posted:Wiz just told me Stellaris is being reworked into a single player story experience a la "Nexus: The Jupiter Incident" with the Blorg as the player empire. Would play the poo poo out of this.
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Apr 27, 2018 21:05
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Shadowlyger posted:Removing tiles also pretty much means removing species traits as they currently function. Or ditch pops entirely and go with raw population. On a regular planet if at least 30% of your pops have a bonus you get its full effect, 15% you get half etc. Mineral rich planets let you go up to 45% for 1.5 the benefit etc. e: this is not be ideasguying (for once), just some illustrative examples of why traits don't need tiles. Splicer fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 21:09
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I think the way the game handles planets' surfaces is really poor and should be improved. I'd just like a bit more variety too, something to remember some of my former planets by, procedurally generated stuff, maybe even more of a visual representation of their terrain, things like that.
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Apr 27, 2018 21:10
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Splicer posted:Nah. One easy example: Ditch tiles but keep pops. Planet X is size 12. This means it can hold 12 pops. Each pop in the general population produces +0.5 of each resource, modified by buildings and tech etc. If a pop has a +minerals trait it produces more minerals. If you want to reward having multiple species types add a couple of specialist slots. Someone in a specialist slot just produces 3 of that resource, so if you have only one +minerals guy he obviously goes in there, and having a +minerals in the minerals slot(s) and a +energy in the energy slot(s) is best. Much of the customisation of tiles but much easier on the AI. So, basically, have planets work... kinda like starbases? You have slots for buildings, and the more pops on the planet the more resources it produces.
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Apr 27, 2018 21:13
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If you're going to redo tiles/pops/buildings, please dont remove planet modifiers affecting stuff on planets  No reason.. :>
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Apr 27, 2018 22:23
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You'd probably have to deal abstract minerals into raw and refined but it would be cool if forgetting my pops on mineral extraction hellworlds led to egalitarian revolts.
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Apr 27, 2018 23:12
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Stellaris was victoria 3 after all.
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Apr 27, 2018 23:12
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AriadneThread posted:looking forward to using l-space to access every library that ever was or will be I already made a similar joke!!! I'm glad someone else went straight there when they saw "l-space" though
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Apr 27, 2018 23:13
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Tiles and distinct pops are absolute loving garbage and I'm glad they're not a sacred cow. Rip it all out and replace it with something kinda like Stars in Shadow does imo Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Apr 27, 2018 |
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Apr 27, 2018 23:50
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Are we sure that wasn’t a troll post though?
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Apr 27, 2018 23:55
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I have a confession. I like tiles. I know they're sort of micromanagement, especially when you have a lot of planets, but I do like the idea of, you know, first, that you have limited space to build...you have to choose buildings and specialize your planets, and second, that you can synergize resources and building placement. Would i like to see changes made to it? Sure...some sort of building manager, where you can upgrade all your buildings on a planet at once would be nice, and i like the changes that happened with 2.0, where your planet list on the right tells you what planets have empty space, upgradeable buildings, and tile blockers. But it seems to me that having the titles helps me conceptualize and choose buildings better than a game like Endless Space, where putting build orders in didn't really seem real or seem like it had any effect on the planet.. i like being able to look at the planet and say, "Well, i just put this mine down on this space, and now I'm getting 4 minerals from it.", or looking at a potentially colonizable planet and seeing "Oh, this has a lot of sociology resource squares...better make this a research planet and colonize it with my expert sociologists." That sort of thing is fun to me. Victoria's pop and economic system on the other hand never made much sense to me. it seemed hopelessly cluttered with too much info, and i could never figure out how to actually affect the economy. It was more like, "Oh, I have 4000 Flemish Catholic Middle Class priests in Namur who aren't getting their furniture needs met. Better build a furniture factory. <Builds a furniture factory. Furniture factory turns a profit for 3 months and then goes bankrupt.>
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Apr 28, 2018 00:17
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Crazycryodude posted:Rip it all out and replace it with something kinda like Stars in Shadow does imo I am low-key super impressed by SiS' planet/population/economic model. It is everything Stellaris' is not in terms of differentiation, clarity, low effort/high impact. Except for shuffling pops around to fill out biomes, that desperately needs an interface overhaul. I feel like it might have been lifted wholesale from one of the MoOs? If so, that is the one aspect of MoO people don't copy enough.
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Apr 28, 2018 00:21
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You're just getting trolled, dudes. The only remarks Wiz has made recently is saying "probably not" when someone on the official forums asked if tiles were really necessary then later remaking on reddit that: Pops are an integral part of Stellaris and should definitely never go anywhere. I'd like to be able to do more with them though, and not have planets arbitrarily limited to one Pop per tile. He has made no other announcements regarding planets or pops so I don't know why people are getting all worked up again. I like having more in depth planet management, too. Having the game revolve entirely around gaming the diplomacy AI in between wars that amount to little more than cat-and-mouse games would be boring as poo poo. Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 00:22
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Someone mentioned Endless Space's system management a little while back and I'd just like to suggest they can piss off and play Endless Space if they want that. I like Stellaris because it's very much not that poo poo. But, that said, the only two 4x spacegames that have ever held my interest for more than a single game have been Ascendancy and Stellaris, and they've got a bunch of things in common. I miss the Ascendancy ship creation mechanic though. (For those that don't know it was an old-rear end DOS 4x where, rather than individual classes of ships, you'd research increasingly larger hulls and various components. The hulls were basically a set of tiles, bigger hulls had more tiles, onto which you put components like generators, engines, sensor equipment, electronic warfare, weapons, colonisation modules, and so on. You you could arrange these however the hell you wanted on the hulls, and you could even build a 'ship' that had no engines and just sat as a turret outside of the planet you built it on.) Arrath posted:Maybe I'm alone in this but I bounced off Endless Space hard. So I'm a reactionary and make the sign of evil whenever people suggest adopting bits from it. I mean, I'm sure it has systems that were good I just never played it enough to find out. Nope I played a single game of it and then regretted buying it. Black Pants fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 01:15
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wiz told me he's adding two more starbases to grasp the void
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Apr 28, 2018 02:33
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Maybe I'm alone in this but I bounced off Endless Space hard. So I'm a reactionary and make the sign of evil whenever people suggest adopting bits from it. I mean, I'm sure it has systems that were good I just never played it enough to find out. All games need the Star Ruler 1 ship design thing. Including the "ah gently caress I didn't include enough surplus/backup power, it drained the batteries in the first shot, killed life support and now the whole crew is dead and the lifeless hulk is hurtling across the system" trap.
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Apr 28, 2018 02:48
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Arrath posted:All games need the Star Ruler 1 ship design thing. Including the "ah gently caress I didn't include enough surplus/backup power, it drained the batteries in the first shot, killed life support and now the whole crew is dead and the lifeless hulk is hurtling across the system" trap. Right game, wrong lesson. All games in fact need the ability to strip-mine multiple galaxies so you can build Large Scale.avi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJJEMmzKzR4 Ship design needs to be stolen from Space Empires V
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Apr 28, 2018 02:57
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Sweet loving christ how long at max time compression did it take to build that thing.  I have to assume the slightly-less-big one was a monumental construction ship.But yeah, I totally agree with you there. I'm a little broke-brained and somehow enjoyed the ability to turn loose successively bigger and bigger mining and construction ships on the universe to build ever bigger ships. It was awfully nice blowing up other people's worlds from my own systems.
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Apr 28, 2018 03:00
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Arrath posted:It was awfully nice blowing up other people's worlds from my own systems. The Gigastructure mod lets you build a Nicoll-Dyson beam that lets you do precisely this.
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Apr 28, 2018 03:31
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Since posting what I did before I've found this mod so go ahead and have your Endless Space in Stellaris if you want I guess. https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1367553125
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Apr 28, 2018 05:20
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Shadowlyger posted:The Gigastructure mod lets you build a Nicoll-Dyson beam that lets you do precisely this. Oh yeah I remember coming across that mod before, I might have to give it a go.
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Apr 28, 2018 05:24
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Say what you will about it, but the endless space/legend approach to city/planet management is really good. No tiles to gently caress with, just tell the planet what to make, build buildings to make it better at doing that thing.
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Apr 28, 2018 05:32
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Wiz told me that he's reworking invasions again, and now whenever you start a ground invasion, it launches starcraft 2
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Apr 28, 2018 06:08
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tithin posted:Wiz told me that he's reworking invasions again, and now whenever you start a ground invasion, it launches starcraft 2 I already do this so it'll be nice to have the process automated
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Apr 28, 2018 06:08
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Arrath posted:Maybe I'm alone in this but I bounced off Endless Space hard. So I'm a reactionary and make the sign of evil whenever people suggest adopting bits from it. I mean, I'm sure it has systems that were good I just never played it enough to find out. I think the thing about Endless Space (and other 4Xs like Civ) is that it is entirely and wholly built around its gameplay systems. The systems may be named and themed around certain real life concepts like trade or warfare or development or what have you, but this is just a thin covering over a series of tightly interlocking systems that force interesting decisions. The raw machinery of the game is never far from the surface. This is great if what you want is to dig into meaty, crunchy systems ripe with strategic possibilities, but if what you want is to feel like the leader of an interstellar nation and people, it feels kinda like having a conversation with a robot in a badly-fitted skinsuit. It may be a very clever robot indeed, but it's not human and when it tries to be human it feels wrong. Stellaris, like most other Paradox games, tends by contrast to blur the line between simulation and gameplay. There's more scope to see the shape of the empire and people you're leading, and more scope to make decisions in line with whatever you envision an interstellar empire ought to be doing, independent of the driving need to compete and win the game. It's a better game for those who think of their empires as more than the instrument of their victory. They're both great games in different ways, mind you, and I enjoyed both of them, but I think at a fundamental level they appeal to slightly different audiences, despite being both 4Xs on paper. Incidentally I feel the same way about Sword of the Stars when people rave about how it was the "perfect game." I played the poo poo out of it, but I never really felt much of a connection to the factions I was leading because all they came down to was a series of sliders. It was good at setting up interesting battles, but I personally needed more context than just the military strategic situation to feel invested. It was good, yeah, but there were distinct itches it wasn't scratching for me, specifically because of the way it was streamlined and designed wholly to scratch another type of itch entirely.
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Apr 28, 2018 07:10
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I watched a Swedish improv group tonight and one of the dudes sounded exactly like Wiz and was also named martin. Due to their similarities I asked him about tiles and he said they are totes getting removed.
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Apr 28, 2018 07:24
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Endless Space 2 is an aggressively pretty 4x. The cinematic planet reveal scenes say a lot about what the Endless series is about, which is cool visuals and neat concepts. Endless Legend has by far the most diverse cast of nations I've played in a 4x game, with the Drakken being able to go tall and use influence to force peace on all enemies, to Broken Lords or Necrophage covering the entire land like a fire. Every race has a totally different playstyle and that causes all sorts of emergent drama like swinging the cultists tier 3 megapole metropolis with Forgotten spy antics to win the game.
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Apr 28, 2018 07:25
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Or, like me, you'll have three other empires demanding your lunch money or they'll beat you up and then begging for peace when you fight back. Repeatedly. While you're trying to play just some peaceful pacifist trees. Endless Space/2 felt like the most elaborately and prettily dressed-up foot-deep wading pools to me. Full of kids that just want to kick you in the shins. But like Arrath said I wasn't able to care to play long enough to see otherwise. I think the turn-based nature just amplified my annoyances with it granted. Sitting staring at a real-time game waiting for resources to build up is a lot different than clicking 'end turn' 10 turns in a row because there's literally nothing else you can do until your build queue is finished. I know Stellaris doesn't tell a 'story' as much as they do but it gives me what feels like a more tangible way of interacting with and making choices about the empire I'm building, and lets me create the empire and story I want to play. Because I play with mods like EUTAB and Alphamod, hands-on planet customisation is part of that. ...At least for a handful of planets and then any more can go into sectors. Hm. Since Glavius' now apparently makes AI aggressively build habitats if they can, maybe I could try turning habitable planets down real low on my next game, see how that feels...
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Apr 28, 2018 08:14
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I played Endless Space for a bit but I didn't care for the combat. It was just kind of a boring game, the one thing I did like were the planet anomalies which felt a bit more consequential.
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Apr 28, 2018 08:25
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Combat has never really been a strong suit of those games. The tactical battles in EL are either micromanagement or huge swings for no reason. Endless Space has always just been basically cinematics with limited interaction, basically the same as risk-style dicerolling.
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Apr 28, 2018 09:00
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I mean, the combat in Stellaris is also boring, but in a way that at least doesn't involve cards. The sight of Magic the Gathering style cards instantly turns me off.
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Apr 28, 2018 09:16
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The cards in a ES1 weren't great but they're fine ES2 because it's not fancy rock paper a scissors and instead give you a limited selection of buffs and debuffs. Stellaris is a different sort of game with a different design philosophy so it's fine to not like one or the other
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Apr 28, 2018 09:30
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In Stellaris the ground "combat" consists of watching a bunch of green circles tick down numbers. That part of the game might as well not exist, it'd probably be less boring if conquering the starbase in a system also meant conquering the planets.
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Apr 28, 2018 13:08
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Shibawanko posted:In Stellaris the ground "combat" consists of watching a bunch of green circles tick down numbers. That part of the game might as well not exist, it'd probably be less boring if conquering the starbase in a system also meant conquering the planets. At its core it isn't any different than combat resolution in EU4 or CK2, it just has a minimalist bordering on non-existant GUI. Functionally I could survive with having an event that fires at the start of ground combat that gives me options for how to arrange battle (tweaking factors such as survival vs. lethality of troops) based on what type of units I have and how fortified the planet is, Aesthetically it'd be nice to see dinosaur riding Jedi slashing through hordes of xenomorphs, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Apr 28, 2018 13:17
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Tiles suck hard. Think of playing wide an the amount of loving pointless clicks, think of the back end resources they consume an the payoff. Think of how much better it would be if it was more of a vicky 2 style demography chunk with modifiers. Reddit loves tiles but as we all know reddit often has bad opinions. Also the current pop system doesnt really give me an idea on what my per citizen population is. Long story short I want to know the specific human toll a multi decade war causes Grammar-Bolshevik fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Apr 28, 2018 |
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Apr 28, 2018 13:48
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Tiles had a good run, RIP tiles.
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