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double nine posted:it's pretty much the only paradox game where wartime casualties have an impact on your economy at large, which is great. i'll never get why devastation is so incredibly limp-dicked in EU4
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May 3, 2018 17:53
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Remember when you could literally depopulate an entire country in Victoria 2 for a patch? That was fun times, occupy France as Germany and sit on em for a decade, hello country with slightly more POPs than Jan Mayern.
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May 3, 2018 18:00
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Prav posted:i'll never get why devastation is so incredibly limp-dicked in EU4 I think during development it was harsher but they toned it down for MP balancing.
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May 3, 2018 21:19
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The main failing in PDS' design philosophy seems to be their assumption that the people who play their games are interested in interacting with other people. They should really fix that.
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May 3, 2018 21:26
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I've been quite enjoying playing Stellaris with some buds, but beyond some a few matches of HoI thats the only Paradox MP I've ever played.
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May 3, 2018 21:43
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The main failing in PDS' design philosophy seems to be their assumption that the people who play their games are interested in interacting with other people. They should really fix that. A shockingly large percentage of the playerbase plays multiplayer.
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May 3, 2018 21:47
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I play a fuckton of EU IV multi with my friends, I think it's like half my playtime in that game. With them, multi feels like having a random assortment of countries all got their AI replaced with Revolver Ocelots, so many double crossing and triple crossings  I will readily admit I'm most likely in the minority here, and multi is a completely different beast compared to single player.
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May 3, 2018 21:57
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The vague concept of "the more you suck the less of the resources you need you actually get" works it just needs to not be all or nothing. Personally I think it should tie in with prestige, if you, 5 prestige Ethiopia are trying to buy cement and 200 prestige Britain is ALSO trying to buy cements, for every 200 cement Britian is trying to buy you should be able to buy 5. That way you'd always be making at least SOME progress towards whatever it is you're looking for.
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May 3, 2018 22:12
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reignonyourparade posted:The vague concept of "the more you suck the less of the resources you need you actually get" works it just needs to not be all or nothing. Personally I think it should tie in with prestige, if you, 5 prestige Ethiopia are trying to buy cement and 200 prestige Britain is ALSO trying to buy cements, for every 200 cement Britian is trying to buy you should be able to buy 5. That way you'd always be making at least SOME progress towards whatever it is you're looking for. This is a cool idea, and also basically how trade nodes work in EU4. Country A has 100 trade power, Country B has 50 trade power, so B gets 50 ducats for every 100 A gets. Although I'd also replace prestige with something more like trade influence, which would be an amalgam of various factors. It's a little silly that making a bunch of paintings means you get all the machine parts in the world.
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May 3, 2018 23:28
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Influence is affected by how much investment you make in a minor's economy though? Building railroads or factories in a country is the easiest way to beat the AI in the sphere game. All it really needed was to make influencing those countries that disallowed foreign investment impossible, and then adding a threaten war option to force them to open up. Kind of - influence isn't BOOSTED by investment; it's diminished by a ratio of your investment in the nation compared to other GPs. So no matter how much you invest in a nation, you can never get more influence than when nobody had invested anything in the country. And once investment competition has started, you'll never get that much influence again, since even if you have 10x as much investment as an opponent, the fact that their investment exists at all still means that you'll generate a slight fraction of a % less than you did at 0. Having a CB to force a nation to open itself to foreign investment would be a good idea though - considering this is the time period of the Opium wars it seems odd that there really isn't much in the way of trade/economic CBs. I'm also surprised there's no mechanic for trade embargoes against other nations either, although maybe this would end up breaking the economy entirely if it was possible. reignonyourparade posted:The vague concept of "the more you suck the less of the resources you need you actually get" works it just needs to not be all or nothing. Personally I think it should tie in with prestige, if you, 5 prestige Ethiopia are trying to buy cement and 200 prestige Britain is ALSO trying to buy cements, for every 200 cement Britian is trying to buy you should be able to buy 5. That way you'd always be making at least SOME progress towards whatever it is you're looking for. Yeah this would make a lot of sense. Resource starvation in small low ranked nations is fine as a mechanic to represent the economic turmoil those countries had in the global economy, but it also seems weird that like, Germany can completely buy out everything produced in Argentina before Chile even gets to look at it.
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May 3, 2018 23:58
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Isn't prestige already used to rank countries for trade priority? Or was that only vicky1? The problem is that it's too all-or-nothing.
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May 4, 2018 00:44
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Isn't prestige already used to rank countries for trade priority? Or was that only vicky1? Yeah, I think it does work that way in 2. Highest prestige gets both first dibs on other markets, and gets their goods sold on the world market first, iirc.
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May 4, 2018 00:49
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Rank is used for priority. It's just that prestige plays a pretty crucial role in rank.
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May 4, 2018 00:55
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Rynoto posted:Rank is used for priority. It's just that prestige plays a pretty crucial role in rank. Yep; it was a common misconception it was prestige for a long time.
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May 4, 2018 02:15
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I'm also surprised there's no mechanic for trade embargoes against other nations either, although maybe this would end up breaking the economy entirely if it was possible. Now that you mention it, that is surprising! I wonder if it's possible to sell guns and boats to a country you're at war with.
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May 4, 2018 03:08
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Magissima posted:Now that you mention it, that is surprising! I wonder if it's possible to sell guns and boats to a country you're at war with. As far as I understand it, yeah. Everything that doesn't get sold on your local market goes up on the global market where it's fair game to everyone else in the world, regardless of current diplomatic status. I don't think the game even really keeps track of what specific goods came from where - most likely it just lumps it all in a big pile and tracks what proportion of it came from where. Then when stuff sells from that pile it just splits the money between everyone who put into that pile based on said proportions.
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May 4, 2018 03:15
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Anything you produce that isn't bought by your pops/factories then goes on the common world market that anybody can buy from, no exceptions, so it is extremely possible that the guy you're currently in a genocidal hellwar with is just buying all your extra rifles/ammo/tanks/whatever and using them against you. Or at the very least it's your steel feeding their artillery factories, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's one of my biggest problems with Vicky, for a game so heavily focused on the economy there's basically no way to do economic warfare and embargo/blockade your rivals or whatever.
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May 4, 2018 03:18
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Crazycryodude posted:Anything you produce that isn't bought by your pops/factories then goes on the common world market that anybody can buy from, no exceptions, so it is extremely possible that the guy you're currently in a genocidal hellwar with is just buying all your extra rifles/ammo/tanks/whatever and using them against you. Or at the very least it's your steel feeding their artillery factories, and there's nothing you can do about it. That's one of my biggest problems with Vicky, for a game so heavily focused on the economy there's basically no way to do economic warfare and embargo/blockade your rivals or whatever. I read posts like this, and I think, ah, yes, now I understand vicky, then I boot it up and stare slack jawed a bit before going back to my retard masturbator career.
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May 4, 2018 03:22
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To be fair, it is extremely victorian era to sell weapons to your enemies as well. If you have liberals in power, even moreso.
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May 4, 2018 03:24
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really queer Christmas posted:To be fair, it is extremely victorian era to sell weapons to your enemies as well. If you have liberals in power, even moreso. Reading a big book about the Krupp company over the centuries was pretty drat funny$. "THE GOVERNMENT MUST BUY ITS WEAPONS FROM KRUPP TO MAINTAIN A DOMESTIC ARMS INDUSTRY" and also "KRUPP MUST BE ALLOWED TO SELL ARMS ON THE INTERNATIONAL MARKET SO WE MAY REMAIN SOLVENT AND MAINTAIN A DOMESTIC ARMS INDUSTRY" ... *German gunboat in China gets lit up by Krupp guns* $Until the WWII war crimes business anyway 
Arrath fucked around with this message at 04:03 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 03:57
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The main failing in PDS' design philosophy seems to be their assumption that the people who play their games are interested in interacting with other people. They should really fix that. I think there might be room for some different values/tweaked rule differences between single and multi player. Slant the rules to be a little harsher/more "historic" in single player, and more tuned toward blobbing in multi. Paradox probably doesn't want to maintain two rule sets, though.
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May 4, 2018 04:31
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Fintilgin posted:I think there might be room for some different values/tweaked rule differences between single and multi player. I dunno, I feel like the "game rules" stuff they have in CK2 is a good approach to this kind of thing. You could even have different defaults in SP and MP if you wanted them to have a different focus from each other, and in either case players would be free to tweak the stuff they want to change to suit the game they're aiming for.
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May 4, 2018 04:34
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really queer Christmas posted:To be fair, it is extremely victorian era to sell weapons to your enemies as well. If you have liberals in power, even moreso. History repeats itself with the US arms industry, selling around the world. If we wind up at war with Iran we'll be fighting their American-made F-14 Tomcats, and half the rebels in any chosen Middle East conflict are US supplied.
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May 4, 2018 05:36
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Cantorsdust posted:History repeats itself with the US arms industry, selling around the world. If we wind up at war with Iran we'll be fighting their American-made F-14 Tomcats, and half the rebels in any chosen Middle East conflict are US supplied. a lot of isis gear is just stuff they lifted from iraq, which was originally from the US
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May 4, 2018 05:44
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Agean90 posted:a lot of isis gear is just stuff they lifted from iraq, which was originally from the US Not just gear. A fair amount of ISIS' initial stock of trained soldiers was from the Iraqi Republican Guard, that is, the former regime's elite troops. When the Americans invaded back in the war a good chunk of the Republican Guard just hosed right off into the desert. At least, that's how I hear it. To couch it in Vicky 2 terms, the army was routed, but the Soldier pops remained and became a problem later. Radio Free Kobold fucked around with this message at 09:17 on May 4, 2018 |
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May 4, 2018 08:06
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The main failing in PDS' design philosophy seems to be their assumption that the people who play their games are interested in interacting with other people. They should really fix that. EUIV online with friends is loving wild
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May 4, 2018 19:57
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the problem isn't that they sometimes make changes on account of mp the problem is that sometimes those changes are stupid
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May 4, 2018 20:01
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Kind of - influence isn't BOOSTED by investment; it's diminished by a ratio of your investment in the nation compared to other GPs. So no matter how much you invest in a nation, you can never get more influence than when nobody had invested anything in the country. And once investment competition has started, you'll never get that much influence again, since even if you have 10x as much investment as an opponent, the fact that their investment exists at all still means that you'll generate a slight fraction of a % less than you did at 0. And then you can crisis over economic issues too.
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May 4, 2018 20:03
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:A shockingly large percentage of the playerbase plays multiplayer. No they dont. Not unless your definition of "large" is well below 5%
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May 4, 2018 20:20
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Not just gear. A fair amount of ISIS' initial stock of trained soldiers was from the Iraqi Republican Guard, that is, the former regime's elite troops. When the Americans invaded back in the war a good chunk of the Republican Guard just hosed right off into the desert. At least, that's how I hear it. To couch it in Vicky 2 terms, the army was routed, but the Soldier pops remained and became a problem later. iirc the american policy was that "anyone who used to be a member of the Ba'ath party (saddam's political organisation) is fired immediately and can't come back. Turns out if you dump a bunch of military personnel and don't give them civvy jobs, they get a bit bored and start shooting at stuff. Who knew.
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May 4, 2018 20:22
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Prav posted:the problem isn't that they sometimes make changes on account of mp Examples?
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May 4, 2018 20:32
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SickZip posted:No they dont. Not unless your definition of "large" is well below 5% It depends a lot on which game. CKIIs MP base is negligible, HoI4 has like 12% of the playerbase ever playing MP at all (and the so-called competetive community being tiny), but from what I recall EU4 is well above that. They are a minority on all games though.
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May 4, 2018 20:43
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any advice on the papal states in vicky?
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May 4, 2018 22:06
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ArchangeI posted:It depends a lot on which game. CKIIs MP base is negligible, HoI4 has like 12% of the playerbase ever playing MP at all (and the so-called competetive community being tiny), but from what I recall EU4 is well above that. They are a minority on all games though.
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May 5, 2018 02:55
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Yeah, I vaguely remember Groogs or one of the other devs mention a crazy high number of multiplayer games for EUIV I wonder how that's counted, though. If 10 people start a multi session together, does that go into the stats as 1 game started or 10 games started?
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May 5, 2018 03:05
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Fintilgin posted:I wonder how that's counted, though. If 10 people start a multi session together, does that go into the stats as 1 game started or 10 games started? We count "number of players who clicked on the MP button", so that would count as a 10. We don't care about the number of games.
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May 5, 2018 09:58
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Not just gear. A fair amount of ISIS' initial stock of trained soldiers was from the Iraqi Republican Guard, that is, the former regime's elite troops. When the Americans invaded back in the war a good chunk of the Republican Guard just hosed right off into the desert. At least, that's how I hear it. To couch it in Vicky 2 terms, the army was routed, but the Soldier pops remained and became a problem later. IIRC The entire Saddam-era military was disbanded and everybody who'd been part of it were barred from joining the new one. Which meant there was an entire army of trained men with guns who suddenly were out of a job. Also everyone who had been part of the Baath party were banned from any level of government, which was basically everyone as career advancement was near impossible unless you were a party member. Needless to say the US-supported successor regime had a lot of growing pains. E: This is all based off of vaguely-remembered secondhand knowledge, so take it with a grain of salt
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May 5, 2018 15:51
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ThaumPenguin posted:IIRC The entire Saddam-era military was disbanded and everybody who'd been part of it were barred from joining the new one. Worth noting that everyone except the people actually making that decision thought it was a bad idea. There was a guy that managed to google of a ton of stuff about the Iraqi power grid and put together a plan to knock it out in a way that would make it easy to fix afterward. He was ignored. Cheney or Rumsfeld caught wind that the Army was planning on using way more troops than was strictly necessary to defeat the Iraqi army and demanded cuts. Those troops where in the plan to prevent looting in the aftermath. Turns out several weeks of looting completely destroys economies, who knew?
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May 5, 2018 16:39
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double post, sorry.
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May 5, 2018 16:39
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This is clearly unacceptable encroachment on china's part.
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May 5, 2018 18:28
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