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I was thinking about ghouls. In a world where people will shoot a ghoul on sight even if they aren't feral, why are sentient ghouls not wearing disguises? I want ghouls in fake mustaches.
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May 11, 2018 13:00
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pop fly to McGillicutty posted:I was thinking about ghouls. In a world where people will shoot a ghoul on sight even if they aren't feral, why are sentient ghouls not wearing disguises? I want ghouls in fake mustaches. in NV i think the "disguise" is that they're wearing normal clothing and otherwise behaving themselves. since ferals typically wear no clothing / garbage tatters and try to chew your face apart if they make eye contact, a ghoul wearing regular clothing is already wearing an appropriate disguise. in 3 and 4 though it gets a little more dicey. i think hancock is the only ghoul in 4 that lives in a human settlement (not including your potential settler NPCs) and ghouls are only "safe" in the ghoul town in 3. i think the main issue is that even if you're a well behaved ghoul, you still cook off a bunch of latent radiation at all times which makes regular humans very concerned about living in proximity to you.
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May 11, 2018 16:21
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corn in the bible posted:I don't know why you'd want to break the power curve and exploration like that. breaking a game is fun, most of the time. I especially like it when the player has to take some risk to get an early game advantage. I don't really like rushing to san francisco in FO2, but simpler stuff like the Hunting Shotgun in the Nuclear Test Site or Chance's Knife just north of Goodsprings is great. Most players wouldn't know about it, and it's rewarding for a replay. Some games like BG2 are pretty much all about breaking the poo poo out of the game in several different ways from the start, though.
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May 11, 2018 16:39
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You'd think places like the NCR would be more appreciative of ghouls. If nothing else the pre war ones must be an incredible fount of knowledge that otherwise might be lost.
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May 11, 2018 16:40
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Wellwinds posted:Diamond City Blues=>Let paul and cooke charge in to the triggermen and die=>Buy half the legendaries available for sale before level 5 If you're going to Nuka World early on, then you should just save up cash, murder everyone stealthily for stuff and buy the Splattercannon. That thing has lvl 36 mods on it from the start, and the legendary effect is the second best for an automatic weapon. I managed to do it on lvl 3 or so, but it was a loving mess of reloads, and I had to sell everything I had to buy the weapon. I then closed the game and never touched the save again, because I just wanted to know if I could do it. Probably should install a mod that makes the ammo for it show up in the original game if you bother doing that, though.
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May 11, 2018 16:44
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Wasn't there a ghoul in Nuka World who was trying to find the cure for going feral, and it turns out that all ghouls eventually go feral?
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May 11, 2018 16:45
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Gaius Marius posted:You'd think places like the NCR would be more appreciative of ghouls. If nothing else the pre war ones must be an incredible fount of knowledge that otherwise might be lost. or uncomfortable reminders about the consequences of their policies/politics.
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May 11, 2018 17:03
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I always assumed that feral ghouls were less an affliction and more a loss of sanity; be it from the initial pain and shock of becoming a ghoul or decades of near-death isolation while people were still stuck in vaults.
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May 11, 2018 17:04
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Wasn't there a ghoul in Nuka World who was trying to find the cure for going feral, and it turns out that all ghouls eventually go feral? There was one that looked around the town's surrounding Nuka World - until she felt herself going feral and killed herself. She leaves a message for another ghoul, which you can take to them and then they go off looking for a cure - or something like that. Basically, you meet a few other ghouls who'll have been around as long as that lady (or longer in the case of that stupid quest with Nick Valentine...) and they haven't gone feral or "feel" like they're at threat of going feral sooooo... I never played the original two games, did feral ghouls exist there?
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May 11, 2018 17:04
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Wasn't there a ghoul in Nuka World who was trying to find the cure for going feral, and it turns out that all ghouls eventually go feral? nah, he was waiting for his wife/girlfriend or whatever to come back after she said she'd look for a cure. She didn't find one and turned feral herself, but that isn't exactly proof that there isn't any.
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May 11, 2018 17:05
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I've never played nuka world and I definitely remember dialogue from a ghoul about ghouls eventually turning feral. Raul from New Vegas maybe?
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May 11, 2018 17:16
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Gaius Marius posted:You'd think places like the NCR would be more appreciative of ghouls. If nothing else the pre war ones must be an incredible fount of knowledge that otherwise might be lost. I think you can find Ranger ghouls at Camp Golf but it's never really commented on.
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May 11, 2018 17:31
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Neurolimal posted:I always assumed that feral ghouls were less an affliction and more a loss of sanity; be it from the initial pain and shock of becoming a ghoul or decades of near-death isolation while people were still stuck in vaults. It's never explicitly explained, but there are comments to the effect that it's the result of them absorbing too much radiation. LashLightning posted:I never played the original two games, did feral ghouls exist there? The only ones I remember we're that you could get attacked by crowds of unarmed ghouls wandering around Gekko in 2, but I don't remember them being called ferals, either. I didn't spend as much time in Necropolis as I should have in 1, but the impression I got was that they were all sane there, just assholes.
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May 11, 2018 17:35
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LashLightning posted:There was one that looked around the town's surrounding Nuka World - until she felt herself going feral and killed herself. She leaves a message for another ghoul, which you can take to them and then they go off looking for a cure - or something like that. No, feral ghouls first showed up in 3 and even then there was no indication that they all go feral anyway. A lot of people were hostile to ghouls because they believed they would of course but there was always friction between humans and ghouls. That also gets mentioned in 4 when the one ghoul is like "hey you know, occasionally one of goes feral and murders people but humans snap and go on killing sprees too so let's not be so quick to judge, you know?" There are way too many feral ghouls in 4, really, and the suggestion in previous games was that most ghouls don't go feral. Relatively few do. It isn't curable but most don't ever go feral.
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May 11, 2018 17:45
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LashLightning posted:There was one that looked around the town's surrounding Nuka World - until she felt herself going feral and killed herself. She leaves a message for another ghoul, which you can take to them and then they go off looking for a cure - or something like that. It's also heavily implied (or maybe outright stated, I can't remember) that the reason the ghouls in Nuka World all turned feral and turned so quickly is because they were constantly dosing themselves in high levels of radiation. So it seems like going feral is something directly linked to radiation exposure rather than something that just happens naturally over time. Other ghouls have never really had this problem, just the one group regularly spraying themselves with radioactive waste. Every other ghoul community: sane, functional citizens, no reports of anyone ever spontaneously turning feral even over long periods of time. Nuka world group: all turn feral extremely fast, right around the time they start dosing kiddie kingdom in toxic waste, the only one who remains sane is a glowing one, a kind of ghoul with a special ability to endure high levels of radiation Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 17:53 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 17:46
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Keeshhound posted:The only ones I remember we're that you could get attacked by crowds of unarmed ghouls wandering around Gekko in 2, but I don't remember them being called ferals, either. As for the utility of pre-War ghouls, think of the people you know today. Would you trust your life to them if the world ended? Do you think if you walked up to a random stranger on the street they'd know anything about first aid? How a car works? How to purify water? Unless you want to hear grandpa tell you more war stories or how he watched people eat each other for a few decades I don't know how useful they'd be. Bethesda has also been sending out random hints on their next announcement (or are just trolling people) and it made me think of something... https://twitter.com/bethesda/status/994879789361086464?s=20 Where the hell do you get electric blue hair dye after the end of the world? Psychotic Weasel fucked around with this message at 17:52 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 17:47
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Fallout 4 also has Billy so I think that invalidates any rationale they have on how ghouls work.
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May 11, 2018 17:48
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Rage sequel, most likely? edit: regarding the tweet above
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May 11, 2018 17:49
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LashLightning posted:I never played the original two games, did feral ghouls exist there? Yeah, tho they might have literally been called zombies in Fallout 1/Necropolis, it's been a while.
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May 11, 2018 17:58
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:So it seems like going feral is something directly linked to radiation exposure rather than something that just happens naturally over time. In NV, I recently "saved" a ghoul in Camp Searchlight by telling him that there's a NCR camp for ghouls like himself. He made the passing comment that if he stayed too long in Searchlight, the radiation would make him turn feral. So I think that happens to be the case. Is being a ghoul a pretty good deal in terms of life expectancy? I remember you can find a 200 year old ghoul the vaultec salesman from the intro and it seems like you stop aging as soon as that transformation hits. Seems like anyone can be as old and immortal as Mr house if they're a ghoul, no technology or cash needed. dead comedy forums posted:Rage sequel, most likely? Was Rage 1 any good? I rented it and I didn't feel compelled to keep it for the whole 5 days. It just felt like a bunch of games I already played, but more shallow. buglord fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 18:12
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buglord posted:Is being a ghoul a pretty good deal in terms of life expectancy? I remember you can find a 200 year old ghoul the vaultec salesman from the intro and it seems like you stop aging as soon as that transformation hits. Seems like anyone can be as old and immortal as Mr house if they're a ghoul, no technology or cash needed. It's been inconsistent across the board. Harold from the first games turned into a tree. Some people lose themselves, some just change and create gatorclaws out of spite, some lock themselves in a bunker and wait for robotic detectives to find them, some get stuck in fridges, it's a crapshoot. Clean up your act ghouls
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May 11, 2018 18:20
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Hancock jokes about being immortal but later mentions he'll live for a long time, but probably not forever, when pressed for more details. There are also other pre-War ghouls in Goodneighbour you can speak with but they don't give you much insight into their condition or what was going on in their life before the game began. There's also a few more scattered around the game world and a section of Nuka World involves them heavily. But again details are scarce. I think someone mentions that most ghouls either go feral or go crazy and that's how their life ends. No one knows what their 'natural' lifespan really is now.
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May 11, 2018 18:21
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buglord posted:In NV, I recently "saved" a ghoul in Camp Searchlight by telling him that there's a NCR camp for ghouls like himself. He made the passing comment that if he stayed too long in Searchlight, the radiation would make him turn feral. So I think that happens to be the case. There doesn’t seem to be any limit to lifespan. Raul is a Pre-War guy, for instance.
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May 11, 2018 18:22
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Azhais posted:It's been inconsistent across the board. Harold from the first games turned into a tree. Some people lose themselves, some just change and create gatorclaws out of spite, some lock themselves in a bunker and wait for robotic detectives to find them, some get stuck in fridges, it's a crapshoot. Harold wasn't a true Ghoul...he was...something else (via FEV infection). He's actually officially classified as a mutant, but he's obviously not a normal mutant. mauman fucked around with this message at 18:32 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 18:29
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Azhais posted:It's been inconsistent across the board. Harold from the first games turned into a tree. Some people lose themselves, some just change and create gatorclaws out of spite, some lock themselves in a bunker and wait for robotic detectives to find them, some get stuck in fridges, it's a crapshoot. Harold wasn't actually a ghoul, (at least prior to the clusterfuck of an end he got in 3). He was part of the expedition to Mariposa that gave us the Master, and if you look at his fallout 1 talking head you can see that he actually doesn't look very much like Set, other than that he's got a hell of a skin condition; he's tinged green and you can see fresh tissue where his skin is pealing off, while other ghouls with talking heads are pretty necrotic.
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May 11, 2018 18:30
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buglord posted:... . Ehhhhh... Not really. It existed to show off Id's new mega-texture system. Since it was an Id game the shooting was good, but there are a few forced driving sections that are ok, and I quit when the post-apoc TV game show forced me to restart from the very beginning when I was killed in the boss fight. It has a really thin story where you are a I'm making GBS threads on it but if you want an Id shooter and can find it for $10 or less then give it a try.
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May 11, 2018 19:01
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K, which one of you is the Bethesda insider? https://twitter.com/bethesda/status/994985488632004608?s=20 buglord posted:Was Rage 1 any good? I rented it and I didn't feel compelled to keep it for the whole 5 days. It just felt like a bunch of games I already played, but more shallow. It has flaws but if you can get it on sale I would still recommend.
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May 11, 2018 19:08
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Wait, I just realized the timeline of Fallout 1 has the Vaults being open within a human lifetime. I never made that connection, since 2 on are all 200+ years. The gently caress happened in Fallout 1. These are either people that saw the Great War, or are direct children. You want me to believe everyone got out of the Vaults crazy after a single generation? e: Rage is great. Well, not great as a game, but as a framework. The gunplay is fantastic, the gadgets are also real good. The world "idea" is neat, and the intro really sells the idea behind it. Most importantly it has the id gameplay design when it comes to enemy types. It's not just generic dudes, it's "types", which lets you play the combat puzzle type of gameplay instead of just banal shoot dudes. The biggest problem Rage had was it wasn't complete, and was basically thrown out half finished. The core story loop had you go back through levels a second time because they didn't have enough for a full game otherwise. The open world was kind of anemic, they focused their energy on way too many things ( bandit hunting and races and story locations and oh my. ) which led to them all being pretty weak. The combat needed another pass, because it lacked a sense of speed and just felt fairly slow in a way that took awhile to get used to. And finally it just straight lacked an ending. The final mission felt like the mission before the third act, but instead it just ended the game. I'm actually genuinely excited for Rage 2 because if they've spent this time refining even half this stuff it could be a DOOM 2. Like a less static open world with actual sidequests/content, a DOOMesque slightly faster combat system, and a fleshed out plot could make Rage 2 a pretty hefty thing. ee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZH_fTVwAgw was the intro for RAGE. And it's just. Really loving good. I don't think it got anywhere near enough credit. Just these two people who are assuredly about to die making sure the survivors will be ok in a very military way. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 19:12
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mauman posted:Harold wasn't a true Ghoul...he was...something else (via FEV infection). He's actually officially classified as a mutant, but he's obviously not a normal mutant. The writers overall said that Harold is truly unique. He referred to himself as a ghoul but never actually was one. Though he still probably loves "didn't, got killed!" as his favorite joke. There were also statements that some ghouls are because of radiation while others were from FEV. FEV in particular changed the world in very crazy ways. That itself also wasn't at all predictable and mutated itself as well which is part of why gigantic scorpions happened. Prewar ghouls would never have been exposed to FEV but would have been radiated. Ghouls are portrayed as absurdly long lived potentially in that they don't age like normal humans. Some go feral while others are pushing 300. Daisy admits to being like 280. It would make sense if there were things that melted your brain over a century and made you feral but not every ghoul gets exposed to it enough. That and ghouls do die of old but it can take several centuries. It would also make sense if some ghouls are immune to going feral or if some other condition on the east coast that nobody understands yet produces so many feral ghouls.
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May 11, 2018 19:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:There were also statements that some ghouls are because of radiation while others were from FEV. FEV in particular changed the world in very crazy ways. That itself also wasn't at all predictable and mutated itself as well which is part of why gigantic scorpions happened. Prewar ghouls would never have been exposed to FEV but would have been radiated. Contamination from radiation was though to make the FEV do weird things to people and create things like Super Mutants and ghouls depending on how contaminated they were. That's why the Master wanted vault dwellers, since the lack of radiation exposure made them perfect subjects that would hopefully be less stupid.
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May 11, 2018 19:25
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Not strictly true - the attack on the West Tec labs blasted a large dose of FEV in to the atmosphere which then came back down the the rest of the fallout, contaminating much of the west coast. There were also other incidents before the war that apparently resulted in FEV and it's predessor the Pan Immunity Virion solution to be accidentally released into the public. A part of Van Bruen's story was apparently going to deal with this. There were a lot of implications there as to if that was radiation or wild FEV. All they really knew were that uncontaminated vault dwellers made the best mutants. Why was a mystery. Though I do tend to forget that there were leaks before the bombs. Of course "because FEV" can be used to explain a lot of the madness in the setting.
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May 11, 2018 19:30
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Thompsons posted:I think you can find Ranger ghouls at Camp Golf but it's never really commented on. I can't remember if I heard it in the game itself or from one of the developers, but the NCR Rangers contain a disproportionate number of Ghouls precisely because Ghouls live so long that they're likely to accumulate the necessary experience at some point. There's even a Super Mutant NCR Ranger in Fallout 2, which might be the only time you see one integrated into a human settlement outside of Broken Hills.
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May 11, 2018 19:37
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Samuel Clemens posted:
I must have missed that guy. gently caress, that was a missed opportunity for new Vegas.
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May 11, 2018 19:49
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ToxicSlurpee posted:There were a lot of implications there as to if that was radiation or wild FEV. All they really knew were that uncontaminated vault dwellers made the best mutants. Why was a mystery. Though I do tend to forget that there were leaks before the bombs. I'm procrastinating at work and did some reading and it looks like it was New Plague/Limit 115 that was released in Colorado. That led to the creation of the Pan Immunity Virion program and FEV. Still, FEV was mixed in with things at some point and even the Blackisle team was really inconsistent on what it did and didn't do. At first it was just ~radiation~ that started mutating things. Then it was FEV and wacky 1950s mad science. Then it went back to just radiation and I don't where things stand now. FEV seems like it got around though since samples of it existed as far away as DC and New England. After the Master bit it the Enclave picked up right where they left off with abducting unexposed vault dwellers to experiment on so that seemed to be the key to whatever then goal was.
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May 11, 2018 19:56
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I think the current status is that it's both. Like radiation is affecting things but also affecting FEV, which of course affects how stuff responds to radiation. FEV and radiation are just kind of everywhere and neither is known for consistency. They both cause horrible mutations so who the gently caress knows what it will cause next? I'm also assuming that part of it was storytelling by black isle. Not everybody knew about FEV but everybody knew about bombs so "because radiation" was just what everybody assumed. Then super mutants start appearing, the enclave is doing its thing, and people learn about FEV. It would actually make sense for the writing to be inaccurate as people in fallout 1 only talked about what they knew. Far as Joe Average knew it was bombs fell -> poo poo went nuts. It must have been the radiation because what else could it have been? Part of the fun of fallout was learning about the stuff nobody else knew about at the time. Even Harold didn't know about FEV and he was exposed to the vats of it. There were little hints around that FEV was wild and was causing lots of poo poo in 1 and 2 but never really stated. I think that's another reason why those were such good games; a lot of the storytelling was left to inference rather than just slammed in your face. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 20:08 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 20:05
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Keeshhound posted:I must have missed that guy. gently caress, that was a missed opportunity for new Vegas. Apparently, there was supposed to be a Super Mutant NCR Ranger in New Vegas as well, but he never made it into the final release. Maybe because the theme of Super Mutants being ostracised by all other factions doesn't work as well if one of them is a member of the military elite.
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May 11, 2018 20:19
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They kind of do something like that with Ranger Outpost Echo being an effectively segregated ghoul unit.
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May 11, 2018 20:31
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buglord posted:In NV, I recently "saved" a ghoul in Camp Searchlight by telling him that there's a NCR camp for ghouls like himself. He made the passing comment that if he stayed too long in Searchlight, the radiation would make him turn feral. So I think that happens to be the case. Becoming a Ghoul, a beginner's guide: THE GOOD PARTS: * Your life span increases dramatically! Many of the ghouls you meet are prewar, and they all stopped aging as soon as they got ghoulified. Ghouls probably will die naturally at some point, but no one is sure when that point is. As of now it's been shown that ghouls can live at least over 200 years and still be in peek physical condition! (It kind of makes Mr. House's and Mr. Bradberton's quests for immortality pretty ironic, turns out immortality is just something any random person can get with enough rads and the right genetic make up). *You're immune to radiation damage! Unlike humans, ghouls are unhurt by the radiation found in the wastelands. However, you probably still don't want to expose yourself to it anymore than you have to.... THE BAD PARTS *...Because enough radiation can still make you turn feral. It'll take a lot of it (way more than it would take to give a human cancer) for a long period of time, but it will happen and once it does it's irreversible. * All of your skin and most if not all of your hair will fall off. This won't hurt, but it doesn't look great, and non-ghoulified humans will judge you for it because humans are naturally racist bastards. * becoming a ghoul does not always happen. Most humans just die when exposed to radiation, only a few with a certain genetic make up turn into ghouls. The only way to test if you're one of the lucky few who'll get ghoulified if if you expose yourself to massive amounts of radiation, which will 100% kill you if you're like most people and don't have the ghoul gene. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 20:40
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Even the "stops aging" part isn't consistent. Raul began transitioning into a ghoul in his twenties but 200 years later he sounds like Danny Trejo. As far as I can tell the "instantly stops aging" thing is in the Bethesda games, while the west coast games say "you live very long and resist the ravages of old age but you still physically grow into an adult form and age mentally." Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:55 on May 11, 2018 |
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May 11, 2018 20:50
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To be fair it's not like we've ever had a dissection of a matured ghoul to gawk at, its possible that ghoul internals get chewed up too, leading to a 20 y/o ghoul ending up sounding like a grizzled action star 
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May 11, 2018 20:58
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