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Marcade posted:Funny, that's how my father learned his first wife was cheating on him; she mentioned that a mutual friend only had one testicle. My father knew that, but how could she know that...?
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May 26, 2018 15:37
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I followed a year-old link from Reddit to a site called "stopsylvia.com" which was supposed to be for an article listing how the psychic Browne was totally wrong about the Amanda Berry kidnapping case (one of the multi-year victims of Ariel Castro). So presumably the whole site was an anti-Browne resource criticizing her work. It could also be because she died back in 2013.
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May 26, 2018 16:48
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dovetaile posted:It could also be because she died back in 2013.
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May 26, 2018 17:51
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pookel posted:I mean, the dude could have told her? And then his father's whole life fell apart.
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May 26, 2018 19:20
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I followed a year-old link from Reddit to a site called "stopsylvia.com" which was supposed to be for an article listing how the psychic Browne was totally wrong about the Amanda Berry kidnapping case (one of the multi-year victims of Ariel Castro). So presumably the whole site was an anti-Browne resource criticizing her work. Weirder thing is that this might be the second time that it happened. I remember that a big Sylvia Brown site got screwed around 10 years ago when the owner was laid up with cancer and didn't renew the domain. It was a big deal in some skeptics communities at the time, since there was the same problem that all the news stories and old articles now pointed to the lost domain name.
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May 27, 2018 00:33
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Marcade posted:Funny, that's how my father learned his first wife was cheating on him; she mentioned that a mutual friend only had one testicle. My father knew that, but how could she know that...? How did he know that?
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May 27, 2018 00:43
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The Lone Badger posted:How did he know that? "It's okay if I gently caress my best friend, but if my wife does it, hoo boy."
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May 27, 2018 00:56
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Yeah the logic there doesn't quite follow. It's a pretty unique trait, she could have heard about it second hand or he could have told her for whatever reason. Plus the whole "how did HE know" thing. I'm a chick but I feel like you'd have to be looking pretty close at a dude's nutsack in the locker room or whatever to notice that yourself. Not judging, just saying.
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May 27, 2018 01:23
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Uh, you don't need to know whether or not someone's correct in order to question how they know something.
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May 27, 2018 01:25
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Also the one nut thing is something I could totally see coming up during a drunken conversation with a bunch of close friends.
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May 27, 2018 01:27
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Jabor posted:Uh, you don't need to know whether or not someone's correct in order to question how they know something. Yeah, the way my mind spun the conversation is that she brought it up somehow and her husband did a "wtf how do you know that?" and she panicked and gave a super unconvincing lie and the husband figured it out from there.
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May 27, 2018 01:59
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bean_shadow posted:Most people who know just a tad about Richard Burton know that he drank. A lot. But I hadn't realized how much until reading this biography. Punkin Spunkin has a new favorite as of 06:43 on May 27, 2018 |
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May 27, 2018 02:07
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I've been reading some of the Reddit megathreads about unsolved mysteries, and noticed a few trends: -- Reddit is loving obsessed with the Dyatlov Pass incident, which I don't even find that interesting. -- A significant number of redditors don't believe that Elisa Lam drowned in the hotel water tank because she had a psychotic incident -- They're obsessed with analyzing the 911 call that Brandon Lawson made after he ran out of gas in West Texas and disappeared, when the simplest explanation is taht he relapsed, got high on meth, made a crazy phone call, and wandered out in the wilderness until he died of exposure.
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May 28, 2018 14:33
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I've been reading some of the Reddit megathreads about unsolved mysteries, and noticed a few trends: Dyatlov Pass is one of those ones that's easy to make sound super mysterious if you don't know/deliberately obsfucate some background details. Like the woman who was missing her tongue and eyes, which is oooOooo spooky unless you happen to know that scavenging animals will go for the soft nutritious bits first.
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May 28, 2018 17:15
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:I've been reading some of the Reddit megathreads about unsolved mysteries, and noticed a few trends: I'd say that's because there's probably a large overlap between people who enjoy unsolved mysteries and conspiracy theorists and the latter have a tendency to dismiss anything contrary to what they know happened
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May 28, 2018 17:31
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Dyatlov Pass is one of those mysteries where there's just enough strangeness to set people's minds off on crazy tangents while being sufficiently far away in time, distance, and language that a definitive resolution will never be possible. The heart of the mystery is why nine experienced skiers would flee their tent without putting on sufficient protective clothing, and what would cause three of them to be killed not by the elements, but by some kind of trauma that hosed them up internally without doing much damage externally, all without leaving any physical evidence behind to be found by search groups a week or two later. Evidence shows the location they camped is not one likely to have experienced an avalanche, and there was no evidence of an avalanche having occurred seen by the searchers who found the tent, which was collapsed but still visible on the surface of the snow. Further, some of the group survived long enough to build a fire, climb up a tree likely to see if whatever danger they perceived at their camp had passed, then set out back to their camp. We know this not just from the position the bodies were found in, but because their tracks were clearly visible still when the first searchers found their camp. This would also rule out the idea that a group of locals found and killed them. My money is on the group being caught accidentally in some kind of military test or training exercise. They were camped in a location off of their intended route and whatever caused them to flee their tent did not have a physical presence on the ground. Parachute bombs, detonating in the air, rather than on impact with the ground, being of particular interest. That also neatly explains the later attempts to shut down the investigation. In that scenario, the events of that night would go something like this. The group makes camp and are all in their tent when they start hearing the sound of explosions outside. They then notice that the explosions are unmistakably getting closer and closer. An explosion hits close enough that they panic, cut themselves free from the tent and run. Having previously been inside the tent, they don't have a good handle on where the explosions are originating from, and three of them flee in a direction that puts them close enough to one of the explosions that it kills them. The remaining six get to the tree line, build a fire, climb up a tree to see if the campsite is safe to return to, but are killed by the elements before they can make it back. The government organizes a search when they don't return, with no one yet knowing that they were anything other than lost or killed by the elements. Once they are found and autopsied, information eventually reaches someone who puts two and two together and figures out that the group ended up in the path of a bombing test or exercise, at which point the government does its best to cover it up, with mixed success.
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May 28, 2018 18:48
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Azathoth posted:Dyatlov Pass is one of those mysteries where there's just enough strangeness to set people's minds off on crazy tangents while being sufficiently far away in time, distance, and language that a definitive resolution will never be possible. It was actually Lenin’s ghost, or maybe Marx’s. Hell, they might have been working together. 
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May 28, 2018 19:04
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I don't care about Dyatlov as a mystery, at all, and never got why people think it's so puzzling but there is one thing that gets me. Why do people telling the story think it's so unbelievable that experienced hikers/climbers died while hiking/climbing? It happens all the time. Ueli Steck just died on Everest a few years ago and a lot of people considered him one of the best climbers in the world.
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May 28, 2018 19:58
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Telsa Cola posted:Also the one nut thing is something I could totally see coming up during a drunken conversation with a bunch of close friends. While I apologize for the derail this has become, it's not that odd to know. I had a friend who referred to himself as "the one nut wonder" after he had testicular cancer. I took his word for it but I had no reason to doubt him either.
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May 28, 2018 20:54
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Azathoth posted:Dyatlov Pass is one of those mysteries where there's just enough strangeness to set people's minds off on crazy tangents while being sufficiently far away in time, distance, and language that a definitive resolution will never be possible. I thought the internet had decided that the Dyatlov group died because they got cold then acted stupid because they were cold, and had taken to calling anyone who suggested otherwise things like “loving moron,” “idiot,” “retard,” and “conspiracy theorist.” Magikarpal Tunnel posted:I don't care about Dyatlov as a mystery, at all, and never got why people think it's so puzzling but there is one thing that gets me. This is a bad example, because one experienced climber falling to his death in front of witnesses is not remotely like nine experienced hikers all dying while off in the middle of nowhere together, with six of them apprently dying from hypothermia, and three others mysteriously having their skeletons turned to pulp without signs of a contributing event, such as an avalanche. In fact, almost all counter-examples are bad examples, because that poo poo just doesn’t happen, which is certainly part of why the legend of the Dyatlov Pass incident is so enduring. Like, I know we all want to be super-rational beings who can laugh at the people who think aliens did it or whatever, but there are ample reasons to find the Dyatlov Pass incident to be puzzling.
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May 28, 2018 21:03
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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:This is a bad example, because one experienced climber falling to his death in front of witnesses is not remotely like nine experienced hikers all dying while off in the middle of nowhere together, with six of them apprently dying from hypothermia, and three others mysteriously having their skeletons turned to pulp without signs of a contributing event, such as an avalanche. In fact, almost all counter-examples are bad examples, because that poo poo just doesn’t happen, which is certainly part of why the legend of the Dyatlov Pass incident is so enduring. The trick is, there's a lot of exaggeration and simple falsehood in the retellings of the story. Even the two details you mentioned aren't quite right: * "nine experienced hikers": while they might have done a bunch of hiking in their youths, only one member of the group was over the age of 24. * "skeletons turned to pulp": nope, they had major fractures of the skull and chest, but nothing that couldn't have been caused by mundane means - especially if the fractures had been caused post-mortem - and certainly no "pulp". Look down your nose at people who try to approach this rationally all you want, but you have to recognize that people just make poo poo up to make these incidents seem weirder than they actually are.
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May 28, 2018 21:34
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^Yep, started to write something like this out. The real reason Dyatlov sticks around is that the story changes based on what the teller wants to believe. I swear I've heard it so many different ways that I can't keep it straight anymore. Reddit loves Elisa Lam for the same reason. It has the usual conspiracy theory problem where "it just doesn't make sense" because of some weird nonsense someone started that stuck as fact. There's an almost religious belief that the water tank was protected by a several hundred pound vault door or that the roof was super secure. Although I haven't seen it cropping up as much on Reddit after someone did a pretty comprehensive review of the autopsy report in r/unresolvedmysteries. And we already reached max comedy by someone starting a theory that it was all a staged incident to cover up a secret tuberculous outbreak. You see, there's a LAM test for tuberculous so obviously the government staged (or really killed) someone named Lam to muddy up the google search results for a few months...
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May 28, 2018 21:41
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Azathoth posted:Dyatlov Pass is one of those mysteries where there's just enough strangeness to set people's minds off on crazy tangents while being sufficiently far away in time, distance, and language that a definitive resolution will never be possible. source your quotes
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May 28, 2018 21:43
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Besesoth posted:The trick is, there's a lot of exaggeration and simple falsehood in the retellings of the story. Even the two details you mentioned aren't quite right: So what if they were young? Every serious outdoors person I know started as a literal child. Even the youngest in the group could easily have had 5+ years experience. None of them woke up that day and bought a three-wheeled stroller to hike the pass. “Pulp” was clearly literary license. 1/3rd of them had fractured skulls and/or chests. That is odd, given the other facts. I am not looking down my nose at anyone. The fact that you try to frame it that way, and add “approach this rationally” is proving the point I was making. While we’re talking about things I must know, one of the things I know is that the other side of the “whacky conspiracy” coin is the “there’s absolutely nothing odd here” when there clearly is. I don’t even have a pet theory about the Dyatlov Pass incident, but, right now, you can hit Google and find a dozen books/sites/people who will swear they’ve approached this “rationally” and have come to a dozen different conclusions. It’s a weird incident by nearly any criteria.
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May 28, 2018 21:55
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Dyaltov Pass was almost certainly an avalanche. Snow falls, kills a couple people, the rest run and leave their stuff behind, then take their clothes off because they're freezing to death. The radiation was likely from their thorium camping mantles, which even have radiation warnings on them and the radioactive dust can get everywhere if you're not careful as hell with those things. People die snow camping/hiking all the time, especially young cocky people. It's dangerous for experienced. And animals eat faces because they're apparently tasty as gently caress. It's not so much a cool mystery as it is Soviet Russia loving up an investigation. E: also yeah my ex's best friend told us he had one nut and my immediate response was "holy poo poo can I see that dude?" Missing or extra nuts are just something you have to see, like a tail. Scathach has a new favorite as of 22:06 on May 28, 2018 |
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May 28, 2018 22:02
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Scathach posted:Dyaltov Pass was almost certainly an avalanche. Snow falls, kills a couple people, the rest run and leave their stuff behind, then take their clothes off because they're freezing to death. The radiation was likely from their thorium camping mantles, which even have radiation warnings on them and the radioactive dust can get everywhere if you're not careful as hell with those things. It could totally be exactly that, but I disagree that it isn’t still a cool mystery. It’s probably always going to be a case of “here’s this theory that fits a lot of the facts, but we can’t really prove it” which is, like, the very substrate that cool mysteries grow in.
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May 28, 2018 22:06
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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:So what if they were young? Every serious outdoors person I know started as a literal child. Even the youngest in the group could easily have had 5+ years experience. None of them woke up that day and bought a three-wheeled stroller to hike the pass. My dude, so many people have made up so much bullshit about this specific incident that whenever you stray from the actual facts into "literary license" you're contributing to it. It's like Poe's Law but for weird events: your "literary license" is indistinguishable from anyone else's "and their skeeeeeeletons were tooootally puuuuuulped!  ", and "a bunch of college kids and their 38-year-old buddy who was in training to be a ski instructor" doesn't play as well as "a group of experienced hikers" for the  crowd.
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May 28, 2018 22:06
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Wouldn’t there have been evidence of an avalanche though, especially when the first bodies were found?
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May 28, 2018 22:06
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fruit on the bottom posted:Wouldn’t there have been evidence of an avalanche though, especially when the first bodies were found? The last four bodies were found under fifteen feet of snow. 
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May 28, 2018 22:09
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fruit on the bottom posted:Wouldn’t there have been evidence of an avalanche though, especially when the first bodies were found? There was evidence of an avalanche, including four bodies that had been crushed by snow and buried. It wouldn't even have to be huge to kill a few dudes and gently caress a campsite up, and make the rest of the campers panic.
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May 28, 2018 22:10
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Kinda ties back into earlier posts but I've also read that radiation being detected was either outright made up at one point or a mistranslation of sunburnt. It apparently just appeared in tellings of Dyatlov Pass at one point and seems to have dropped off in recent tellings. It might be a bit like the Lead Masks Case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_Masks_Case) where for the longest time people assumed that the lead masks were creepy radiation masks and not just some homemade goggles.
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May 28, 2018 22:15
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Besesoth posted:The trick is, there's a lot of exaggeration and simple falsehood in the retellings of the story. Even the two details you mentioned aren't quite right: That said, I said upthread what I think happened and why, but the entirety of the "mystery" is that 9 hikers/skiers fled the safety of their tent by cutting their way out without taking the time to put on their gear, and why 3 of the 9 were killed by massive internal trauma, cited as being equivalent to a car accident, before exposure could kill them, with minimal damage to soft tissue. If one presupposes that the autopsies for the 3 were wrong and they all died of exposure, with any damage being the result of animal scavengers or damage in transport, then you've just got a bunch of young people freaking the gently caress out in the wilderness and dying, likely because they thought an avalanche was imminent.
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May 28, 2018 22:18
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Besesoth posted:My dude, so many people have made up so much bullshit about this specific incident that whenever you stray from the actual facts into "literary license" you're contributing to it. It's like Poe's Law but for weird events: your "literary license" is indistinguishable from anyone else's "and their skeeeeeeletons were tooootally puuuuuulped! So, the canonical sources of information that can be trusted are...?
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May 28, 2018 22:23
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Kinda ties back into earlier posts but I've also read that radiation being detected was either outright made up at one point or a mistranslation of sunburnt. It apparently just appeared in tellings of Dyatlov Pass at one point and seems to have dropped off in recent tellings. Yeah, I mean either way I don't think the radiation thing was the weird UFO poo poo it was made out to be. Now I've only been in a snowy place a few years but can't you get one hell of a sunburn from snow on a bright day?
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May 28, 2018 22:29
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Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:So, the canonical sources of information that can be trusted are...? Primary sources, friend. Remember your junior-high essays.
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May 28, 2018 22:35
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Azathoth posted:I do have a bone to pick concerning the dismissal of their relative experience. They were undertaking the trip specifically to earn the highest level certification for this kind of outdoor activity, and all of them had done trips like this many times in the past. They were young, but it isn't like they were novices. It's been explained to you and the other guy who keeps insisting this is aliens that there was an avalanche, and panic/clothes stripping is a really normal set of circumstances because of the aforementioned avalanche, and because that's what people suffering from hypothermia do. I get it, it's a weird thing that happened, but every single one of the 'mysterious' parts are made up, mistranslated, or just misunderstood. Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:So, the canonical sources of information that can be trusted are...? The actual real reports, analysis by people thinking rationally, etc. Specifically, they are not: your strange twenty-second-on-google and designed for clicks results lmao.
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May 28, 2018 22:40
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I'm on mobile and at work so I'm not able to look up the exact source but my understanding is that the trekkers had gotten lost/turned around due to weather, which lead to them camping in a different place than planned. It also means they're tired and more prone to make mistakes and are more vulnerable to hypothermia. Even a pretty small avalanche would be enough to cause panic in a group that's already tired and on edge. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting there to be more of a mystery but there's been too much poo poo made up and exaggerated and I hardly ever see people pointing out more mundane causes.
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May 28, 2018 22:42
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it's "trekkies"
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May 28, 2018 22:49
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Besesoth posted:Primary sources, friend. Remember your junior-high essays. I love that you “my dude”d me, posted that, plus the ghost icons and “skeeeeeeeeeeletons toooootally puuuuuuuuulped” after accusing me of looking down my nose at people, and telling me how “literary license” is part of the problem. What are the primary sources you’ve read? Whose names were on them? Where did you read them? Captain Monkey posted:It's been explained to you and the other guy who keeps insisting this is aliens that there was an avalanche, and panic/clothes stripping is a really normal set of circumstances because of the aforementioned avalanche, and because that's what people suffering from hypothermia do. I have no idea what you’re saying here? What 20-seconds-on-Google results? “Analysis” of what? I could “analyze” any dumb claims on any fan website, reason through them completely rationally, and come to an insane conclusion because the data were faulty. What data were these analyses based on? Who are the analysts? Which books or papers are you referring to? I’m sure you have some specific ones in mind, so share them.
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May 28, 2018 22:55
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Captain Monkey posted:It's been explained to you and the other guy who keeps insisting this is aliens that there was an avalanche, and panic/clothes stripping is a really normal set of circumstances because of the aforementioned avalanche, and because that's what people suffering from hypothermia do. You sure do seem to have strong opinions on this for someone who has clearly not gone deeper than "skimmed the Wikipedia article".
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May 28, 2018 22:56
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