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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm thinking Ashford takes on the Michio Pa role from here. I had the same thought. Without all the mutiny/counter-mutiny stuff, Show-Drummer isn't carrying around the same guilt Pa had about the Slow Zone incident. Maybe survivor's guilt, or eventually guilt about contributing to all the rings opening up, but that's all pretty different from Pa falling in with a dumb crowd. JossiRossi posted:I thought it made sense, it was fast but it was only when he was getting pushed into a position where it looked like if anything more went wrong that they would be unable to fire the laser again. Which makes sense, he said he wasn't sure if Holden was even himself anymore, for all he knew the ring was controlling him to make the destruction of the ships safer by shutting down the drives. And with the protection of all humanity on the line he gave that order only when that was truly at risk. Agreed. Also, when Holden turned out to be right, that was the end of it. No spiteful last stand or whatever, just shame over what he almost did.
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Jun 29, 2018 03:52
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How this show gets better and better is beyond me. That suit is fine, but Diogo will need to be hosed out of it. Drummer almost getting Bull's exact send off was brilliant and emotionally poignant. She's a badass. The glimpse of the ring monster was unexpected, but a cool foreshadowing. Wonder if any non-readers would catch on that something significant happened there. They made Ashford into a fascinating character. They telegraphed a mustache twirling villian and then gave us something not that and so much better. I don't really see him playing Pa's role. Ashford is too smart to be swindled by a cult of personality type like Marco, and his actions on the behemoth are in every way the antithesis of genocide. Could see him as part of the old-guard OPA resistance on Medina though. He also couldn't take Duarte's role. Laconia is Mars at it's core, and it's goals follow the same multi-generational drive of terraforming but given a new purpose. Duarte must be a Martian. The shots inside the drum were phenomenal and triggered memories of reading the Rama series as a kid. I can't wait to see how it looks as Medina. Holden being Holden in how he tells people about seeing Miller is so typical. He's a moron with no guile or filter when it comes to how to present information. Any word on when Amazon will roll out the next season?
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Jun 29, 2018 05:12
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Enigma posted:Wonder if any non-readers would catch on that something significant happened there. I have the feeling people will think Holden is possessed by the aliens or something. Enigma posted:They made Ashford into a fascinating character. They telegraphed a mustache twirling villian and then gave us something not that and so much better. Totally. I hated book Ashford (we're supposed to I guess), show Ashford was so much more fun to watch.
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Jun 29, 2018 06:04
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Enigma posted:He also couldn't take Duarte's role. Laconia is Mars at it's core, and it's goals follow the same multi-generational drive of terraforming but given a new purpose. Duarte must be a Martian. There was an interview posted in this or the other thread that more or less stated they're going to be intercutting stuff on Ilus with continuing events in Sol, including stuff set on Mars, so either Bobbie's going home eventually or another Martian is going to be our viewpoint for events related to Duarte's coup
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Jun 29, 2018 06:09
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:I have the feeling people will think Holden is possessed by the aliens or something. I've seen that theory and I've seen the theory that it was Miller hitching a ride. 
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Jun 29, 2018 06:11
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Zazz Razzamatazz posted:Totally. I hated book Ashford (we're supposed to I guess), show Ashford was so much more fun to watch. When book Ashford went all “I’m the real captain here” *wink wink nudge nudge* in his cell I thought “who would mutiny for that dumb rear end in a top hat”.
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Jun 29, 2018 07:51
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm thinking Ashford takes on the Michio Pa role from here. He has the pirate background and it avoids making fan favourite Drummer into Space Dönitz. Seems likely.
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Jun 29, 2018 10:52
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Just occurred to me, but how did they manage to shut off the Roci's reactor (in the show)?
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Jun 29, 2018 13:45
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Enigma posted:Just occurred to me, but how did they manage to shut off the Roci's reactor (in the show)? Do we see the moment when the Roci shuts down? If not, I'd say remote commands before the shooting started. If it's shown shutting down along with the other ships, then yeah, I don't know who had the time.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:43
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Ships are fully remote controllable so probably that.
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Jun 29, 2018 16:47
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JossiRossi posted:I thought it made sense, it was fast but it was only when he was getting pushed into a position where it looked like if anything more went wrong that they would be unable to fire the laser again. Which makes sense, he said he wasn't sure if Holden was even himself anymore, for all he knew the ring was controlling him to make the destruction of the ships safer by shutting down the drives. And with the protection of all humanity on the line he gave that order only when that was truly at risk.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:09
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Elias_Maluco posted:So, am I right to assume that for the next season(s) the big threat will be the guys who killed the guys who build the PM? No. It's there, in the background, and while it's coming more to the fore, it still gives off a bit of a vibe that it can't be fought conventionally. But we really don't know enough information to know for sure. Elias_Maluco posted:Do spoil me some more, please: do these guys ever show up then? By the way, is the book series finished or is still ongoing? Ongoing. Book eight this year in December. Book nine, the final one, next year. The PM destroyers have a chapter in Book 5 (basically what Holden saw, only it reached the character), I think again in Book 6, and something really weird happens in Book 7 that freaks everyone out. There's a real cosmic horror vibe to the PM killers and I love it. But, AFAIK, the whatever-it-is doesn't even have a page on the Expanse wiki.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:18
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Lord Hydronium posted:Yeah, all the elements were there and it worked out by the end, I just thought the transition itself was a bit rough. Particularly the bit where Holden, Naomi, and Drummer call up to Ashford saying they have a plan (not even what the plan is), and immediately he sends people after them and they're in rebellion. It felt like a shortcut to get to where the book was. Once they're in the reactor and he knows they're trying to shut it down it worked a lot better. I thought it was fine. He didn't send a kill squad, but he rightly recognized that Drummer et al. are capable and not to be ignored, and Ashford wanted to contain the situation. Had they stuck around, maybe Ashford would have talked it out, who knows. The reversal of the usual sci fi trope is great. There's the crazy guy who sees visions and wants everyone to obey the alien goo tech for the good of humanity, and the sane guy racing against the clock to destroy a threat. In any other story, Ashford would be the hero.
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Jun 29, 2018 17:23
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Milky Moor posted:No. It's there, in the background, and while it's coming more to the fore, it still gives off a bit of a vibe that it can't be fought conventionally. But we really don't know enough information to know for sure. Alright, thank you!
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Jun 29, 2018 18:44
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I wish I'd realized this thread existed throughout the season!  What a great finale, the show has truly been firing on all cylinders for a while now, definitely for all of the 3rd season. I am super excited to see how people react when the rocks fall, that was a huge Oh poo poo moment in the books for me. I remember reading it and actually being like holy poo poo they actually did it. Cibola Burn is probably the single book that will benefit the most from being translated for TV, too. Cannot wait to see what this extremely talented production crew does with a Prime budget!
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Jun 30, 2018 01:24
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based on the title, the next book is where Whatever-It-Is begins to show itself more fully.
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Jun 30, 2018 02:12
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I think aspects of Michio will be there in both Drummer and Ashford's stories going forward. Ashford probably still has no love for Earth, so I see him falling in with Marco and then turning against him after the strike against Earth, kind of like Pa did. It's also poetic justice if Marco kills him just like Ashford killed that random tech guy, only his death serves to drive the radical OPA apart from Marco long-term. Drummer meanwhile becomes the head of the transit authority that the Belt turns into instead of Pa doing that. Given how much they improved Ashford I'm really looking forward to their takes on Marco, Duarte, Filip, and the Laconian who takes over Medina and starts making all the wrong calls. Edit: Oh, and I really love how they've stuck to a book a year for quite a long time, given that there are works by several fantasy authors that I'm eagerly waiting for and which are still being delayed after being in the cooker for around five years or more. I'm sure they'll all be bigger than the typical Expanse novel and probably even more my jam once they're out, but the wait is just the worst. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Jun 30, 2018 |
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Jun 30, 2018 02:35
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Ashford did nothing wrong.
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Jun 30, 2018 03:42
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Dance with Dragons and Leviathan Wakes both came out in summer 2011. The eighth Expanse book releases this year.
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Jun 30, 2018 04:57
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NowonSA posted:I think aspects of Michio will be there in both Drummer and Ashford's stories going forward. Ashford probably still has no love for Earth, so I see him falling in with Marco and then turning against him after the strike against Earth, kind of like Pa did. It's also poetic justice if Marco kills him just like Ashford killed that random tech guy, only his death serves to drive the radical OPA apart from Marco long-term. Drummer meanwhile becomes the head of the transit authority that the Belt turns into instead of Pa doing that. Those other books are never coming out.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:07
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If we're to believe the Free Navy had any popular support (and we're told it kind of did) we'll need to see sympathetic characters backing it. That's got to be Ashford's role in the show. If he doesn't back Marco no one believably could. Ashford's rehabilitation in the show was amazing. I bet they'll pull it out for the corporate rear end in a top hat in Cibola Burns too. But Marco... the scale of his crime is too absurd to ever by sympathetic in any capacity. I'm kind of dreading belters in the show going "this is okay" because whoever says that is just an unimaginable monster. If Drummer sides with Marco... well I'll have a lot of trouble with that premise. Ashford I could see in a kind of reluctant opportunist role. It's happened and now we need to remake the system, and have it work for the Belt this time. He'll end up seeing through Marco's faults eventually though and prove himself in the end, but he's got to be on his side at first, at least.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:13
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There's no way to make Marco anything other than the worst, but if they get a good actor to sell the charisma he's supposed to have it'll work.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:17
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Eiba posted:I'm kind of dreading belters in the show going "this is okay" because whoever says that is just an unimaginable monster. I’m not looking forward to the thread and Twitter ironically supporting the Holocaust times a thousand.
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Jun 30, 2018 05:23
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Platystemon posted:I’m not looking forward to the thread and Twitter ironically supporting the Holocaust times a thousand. Have you seen what's happening on Earth lately? We deserve it.
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Jun 30, 2018 06:00
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I forget, where was Dawes during the Free Navy fiasco? He'd be way better as an Earth-killing fanatic and we have a thread if his rage towards the Earthers going back to season 1. Just make Marco his second banana and problem solved. Edit: yeah he's team Marco anyway, switches sides after the attack, gets a brief redemption arc, then gets tossed into a UN prison forever. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Jun 30, 2018 |
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Jun 30, 2018 07:13
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They're talking about it a little in the nonspoiler thread, but I can't join in: What the hell do we think happened to Holden in the last few seconds of the finale? Between the visuals and the voice over, I would be certain he just got infected by the thing that killed the PM creators if I hadn't read all the books. It looked like something slithered into him as his head went through the gate, and they lingered on his eyes looking funny for a second. Is it just a red herring, or could they be changing up the plot for the next few seasons?
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Jun 30, 2018 12:56
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I just rewatched the end and the thing coming towards Holden stops before hitting his face. Also his eyes didn't look particularly weird to me.
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Jun 30, 2018 13:02
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I think that was Acting and he was realizing that the thing that killed the Creators lives between the gates. Good finale, I was happy. I hope Miller becomes a regular on the show again instead of disappearing like in the books.
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Jun 30, 2018 13:44
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Phenotype posted:They're talking about it a little in the nonspoiler thread, but I can't join in: What the hell do we think happened to Holden in the last few seconds of the finale? Between the visuals and the voice over, I would be certain he just got infected by the thing that killed the PM creators if I hadn't read all the books. It looked like something slithered into him as his head went through the gate, and they lingered on his eyes looking funny for a second. Is it just a red herring, or could they be changing up the plot for the next few seasons? It's obviously the PM killer species (or their weapon -- either way, in the books, it is described as 'rushing toward' its victims before Weird Things Happen). But it didn't get Holden, it just came very close.
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Jun 30, 2018 15:02
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I forget, where was Dawes during the Free Navy fiasco? He'd be way better as an Earth-killing fanatic and we have a thread if his rage towards the Earthers going back to season 1. Just make Marco his second banana and problem solved. It's clearly explained on book 5 that Dawes sides with whomever has the best interest of the Belt at hand. The moment Marco stopped redistributing material to the belt is the moment Dawes would jump ship and join up with Pa. Dawes is relatively small fry anyway. Hes just the leader of Ceres. I dont think he has a role in the story anymore. Also obligatory: loving libs thinking every radical is a bad person Dawes: radical for equality and belter liberation Marco: power hungry belter nationalist Libs: wow! I'm seeing double!
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Jun 30, 2018 19:39
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I think the show has done a bad job wrt to the PM killer mystery because every show watcher instantly latched onto this dumb idea that its Miller fusing with Holden
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Jun 30, 2018 19:41
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Phi230 posted:I think the show has done a bad job wrt to the PM killer mystery because every show watcher instantly latched onto this dumb idea that its Miller fusing with Holden That's just TVIV being TVIV. Remember back in the beginning of the season when people were saying that Prax was OBVIOUSLY a baddie because he OBVIOUSLY planted the PM on the Roci?
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Jun 30, 2018 20:10
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What would Miller fusing with Holden even mean? Holden has been seeing him for a while now. Sure you can't figure out the PM killer cliffhanger without book knowledge but that doesn't make any sense as a theory.
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Jun 30, 2018 20:24
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Platystemon posted:I’m not looking forward to the thread and Twitter ironically supporting the Holocaust times a thousand. The only thing Marco did wrong was not sending any rocks to Mars.
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Jun 30, 2018 23:27
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I forget, where was Dawes during the Free Navy fiasco? he tried to position himself as an elder statesman in the FN hierarchy, he's governor of Ceres until the FN strips and abandons it and he's one of the bigwigs at Marco's powerpoint presentation, but sides with Pa in the FN's schism. One of Avasarala's last scenes in the Babylon's Ashes includes an offhand mention that Dawes was in UN custody on Earth or Luna by the time delegates from the different powers of the Consolidated Fleet gather to work out the deal that becomes the Transport Union after the war
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Jun 30, 2018 23:56
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bloom posted:What would Miller fusing with Holden even mean? Holden has been seeing him for a while now. There's also the extremely ominous musical sting and Holden's expression which should clue people in that it's not Miller.
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Jul 1, 2018 01:48
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Milky Moor posted:There's also the extremely ominous musical sting and Holden's expression which should clue people in that it's not Miller. One thing that's not helping is it was a blue shimmer. Which has been so heavily tied to the protomolecule. I always got the impression the Builder Killers were associated with red/black coloring. Which would have helped to differentiate it.
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Jul 1, 2018 01:55
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Phi230 posted:Dawes is relatively small fry anyway. Hes just the leader of Ceres. I dont think he has a role in the story anymore. Book Dawes may be a small fry but Jared Harris is loving great and Marco sucks. Keep him involved and if his character can't be squared with being space Hitler x1000 then fine have him position the rocks as leverage and have Marco go rogue and push the button.
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Jul 1, 2018 02:25
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I'm really hoping they keep up their good casting mojo and can make McMurtry and Elvi interesting and multifaceted like they did with Ashford. Cause the book versions...woof.
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Jul 1, 2018 03:30
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Literally all I remember about Elvi is "is a nerd, has a boner for Holden" so they've got their work cut out.
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Jul 1, 2018 04:05
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