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Which other creator is like Roddenberry in that the IP they're given credit for making was only good because of someone's input? The next person who comes is Rob Liefeld who came with Deadpool's name, Deadpool's costume, and gently caress-all else to do with the character.
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Sep 13, 2018 01:39
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Darth Walrus posted:Are you saying they’re decoupled now? There are so many sources for weird sex stuff that it is no longer OBLIGATORY that it gets included in sci-fi and horror because there is no other outlet for it. They still are included, all the time, 100%, but still.
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Sep 13, 2018 01:40
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Yeah the original Star Trek theme has lyrics (written by Roddenberry) that meant he got half the royalties despite the lyrics never being used.Max Wilco posted:Ohmygod, are you serious? And then Red Dwarf went and did it years later, except with the added twist of the gunman being JFK himself.
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Sep 13, 2018 01:40
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Which other creator is like Roddenberry in that the IP they're given credit for making was only good because of someone's input? The next person who comes is Rob Liefeld who came with Deadpool's name, Deadpool's costume, and gently caress-all else to do with the character. I thought we were trying to get away from Star Wars chat? 
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Sep 13, 2018 01:44
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Which other creator is like Roddenberry in that the IP they're given credit for making was only good because of someone's input? The next person who comes is Rob Liefeld who came with Deadpool's name, Deadpool's costume, and gently caress-all else to do with the character. i mean wasn't deadpool originaly just some random henchmen type who was ripped off of deathstroke. business hammocks posted:Oh yeah, check out his failed 70s pilot Genesis II, where the heroes have to infiltrate a BDSM dungeon that the villains use to make people into their slaves: lol, thats amusing and hosed up. i kinda want to see this.
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Sep 13, 2018 02:06
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Which other creator is like Roddenberry in that the IP they're given credit for making was only good because of someone's input? Nightmare Before Christmas has Tim Burton's name all over it despite the fact that he never directed it and got in a bunch of slapfights with Danny Elfman over the music.
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Sep 13, 2018 02:26
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Which other creator is like Roddenberry in that the IP they're given credit for making was only good because of someone's input? The next person who comes is Rob Liefeld who came with Deadpool's name, Deadpool's costume, and gently caress-all else to do with the character.
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Sep 13, 2018 03:26
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khwarezm posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa5gqbJ-6m0 I'm sure that's gonna go real well for them when other countries start legislating loot boxes too.
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Sep 13, 2018 06:28
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IIRC a lot of instrumental TV themes have lyrics for various legal shenanigans and sometimes even legitimate reasons. Star Trek definitely isn't the only one. Like the MASH theme was part of an intentional quest to write a song with the dumbest possible lyrics, which naturally made it a #1 hit in the UK.
Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 06:31
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Acute Grill posted:IIRC a lot of instrumental TV themes have lyrics for various legal shenanigans and sometimes even legitimate reasons. Star Trek definitely isn't the only one. Like the MASH theme was part of an intentional quest to write a song with the dumbest possible lyrics, which naturally made it a #1 hit in the UK. Its lyrics were also partially written by a teenager which helped matters, I'd imagine. To this day I still can't believe Marilyn Manson did an honest to goodness cover of Suicide is Painless.
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Sep 13, 2018 06:47
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The MASH theme has stupid lyrics because it was written for the film in which a stupid song is sung for levity during a scene while Painless commits a faux suicide. It was never intended to be an instrumental or a theme.
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Sep 13, 2018 06:50
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The lyrics were intentionally terrible, though. I dunno, maybe my perspective is skewed because literally the only memory of MASH I have is the TV theme.http://www.jazzwax.com/2008/10/interview-joh-5.html posted:Bob said, "All is not lost. I’ve got a 15-year-old kid who’s a total idiot." So Michael Altman, at age 15, wrote the lyrics, and then I wrote the music to them. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 08:47
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Ghostlight posted:Stan Lee and Bob Kane. I dunno, Bob Kane sure seemed to understand Batman’s function as the manifestation of god’s will:  “PS I guess I love my wife and children too. Whatever.”
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Sep 13, 2018 09:00
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nine-gear crow posted:Mike and Rich ReView Mike’s hastily written one-page treatment pitch for that new Jean-Luc Picard show CBS is doing now that Les “Sweet Jesus I Hate Star Trek” Moonves has been #MeToo’d into oblivion. And it’s kinda sad and revealing, not gonna lie. It’s kind of a shame to see Mike falling so hard into backwards-looking nostalgia especially for a franchise that was all about moving ahead (Enterprise, JJTrek, and Discovery notwithstanding). RLM's non-Plinkett stuff was really disillusioning and informative to me when they started doing those. Like you're getting a look past the layers of intellectualising that come into the process when you're writing a script for a character. I remember that Ghostbusters 2 commentary where they nostalgically remembered a bunch of the "great moments" from the first movie in contrast to 2, which they remembered as bad, and then almost every one of the moments they mentioned happened later in the movie. Plinkett had always been these opinions and half-remembered fragments of films they hadn't seen in a while or thought about much, conglomerated into some sense of critical analysis. It was simply presented better. And when you realise the difference between making a decent video and actually having a point, a lot of things start to fall into place.
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Sep 13, 2018 09:42
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Hbomberguy posted:Plinkett had always been these opinions and half-remembered fragments of films they hadn't seen in a while or thought about much, conglomerated into some sense of critical analysis. lmfao you are loving delusional
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Sep 13, 2018 10:37
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Hbomberguy posted:RLM's non-Plinkett stuff was really disillusioning and informative to me when they started doing those. Like you're getting a look past the layers of intellectualising that come into the process when you're writing a script for a character. I remember that Ghostbusters 2 commentary where they nostalgically remembered a bunch of the "great moments" from the first movie in contrast to 2, which they remembered as bad, and then almost every one of the moments they mentioned happened later in the movie. We get it, you
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Sep 13, 2018 11:21
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nine-gear crow posted:Mike and Rich ReView Mike’s hastily written one-page treatment pitch for that new Jean-Luc Picard show CBS is doing now that Les “Sweet Jesus I Hate Star Trek” Moonves has been #MeToo’d into oblivion. And it’s kinda sad and revealing, not gonna lie. It’s kind of a shame to see Mike falling so hard into backwards-looking nostalgia especially for a franchise that was all about moving ahead (Enterprise, JJTrek, and Discovery notwithstanding). I wouldn't call a show whose only premise and selling point is the old guy from that show from the 80s is back, to be moving ahead. Besides much of early TNG were recycling old TOS and Phase II scripts and the TNG films were stuck in a weird Revenge rut. I think its fair to fall back on TNG nostlagia when thats what this new show will be built upon.
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Sep 13, 2018 11:28
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Plinkett is unfunny, but those videos are just them doing basic script workshop exercises with the prequels and describing how they as film students would have responded to seeing the script, at least the first ones. They definitely get lazy around maybe the new star trek movies. But they have a basic logic behind them. I’m pretty sure the Episode I video has footage of them doing a workshop activity on Episode I in their screenwriting class. Even the kind of lazy “there’s a room on the spaceship that’s only there to open a small door into space?” from that one tng movie review is pointing out something they probably teach you in early screenwriting classes, something like “don’t abandon the logic of your setting for the sake of emotional beats unless you have a good reason.”
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Sep 13, 2018 11:38
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Hbomberguy posted:Plinkett had always been these opinions and half-remembered fragments of films they hadn't seen in a while or thought about much, conglomerated into some sense of critical analysis. Sounds eerily familiar.
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Sep 13, 2018 11:42
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:lmfao you are loving delusional
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Sep 13, 2018 11:44
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:lmfao you are loving delusional I’m fuckin mad bout Star Wars!!!!
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Sep 13, 2018 11:49
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Mike Stoklassa is stuck in the angry irony phase of the internet circa 2003, but has a beautiful earnest optimism butterfly within him that he is afraid to let burst out of his chest.
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Sep 13, 2018 11:53
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nine-gear crow posted:Mike and Rich ReView Mike’s hastily written one-page treatment pitch for that new Jean-Luc Picard show CBS is doing now that Les “Sweet Jesus I Hate Star Trek” Moonves has been #MeToo’d into oblivion. And it’s kinda sad and revealing, not gonna lie. It’s kind of a shame to see Mike falling so hard into backwards-looking nostalgia especially for a franchise that was all about moving ahead (Enterprise, JJTrek, and Discovery notwithstanding).
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Sep 13, 2018 12:01
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Ghostlight posted:Weirder than thinking the prequels are good - to me - is the idea of disagreeing with the claim that Plinkett isn't a well structured critique of a film that sets out a hypothesis and progresses toward examining the fundamental flaws that make up the entire sequence of people talk until action scene introducing toy but largely a series of individual rebukes of the film(s) that owes its notability to happening to have a technical veneer lent to echoing the inarticulated emotional conclusions of its waiting audience. Hmm, yes, hmm. nine-gear crow posted:Mike and Rich ReView Mike’s hastily written one-page treatment pitch for that new Jean-Luc Picard show CBS is doing now that Les “Sweet Jesus I Hate Star Trek” Moonves has been #MeToo’d into oblivion. And it’s kinda sad and revealing, not gonna lie. It’s kind of a shame to see Mike falling so hard into backwards-looking nostalgia especially for a franchise that was all about moving ahead (Enterprise, JJTrek, and Discovery notwithstanding). I don't know what you mean by 'moving forward' in this context, Enterprise, Discovery and especially JJTrek all suffer from the same issues of being stuck as prequels to the Trek timeline that rely off of heavy references of the more recognizable tropes related to the series. They are also basically the entire franchise for the last 20 years. Trek has been spending a lot of time caught in a self referential loop and getting more and more ground down into just another schlocky action series. At this point even if its not 'new' I would far prefer to see the franchise go back to a more thoughtful basis where it toys with philosophical sci-fi ideas and diplomatic approaches to issues instead of 'I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE!', if it needs to bring back Picard for that then fine by me.
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Sep 13, 2018 12:20
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Hbomberguy posted:Plinkett had always been these opinions and half-remembered fragments of films they hadn't seen in a while or thought about much, conglomerated into some sense of critical analysis. It was simply presented better. And when you realise the difference between making a decent video and actually having a point, a lot of things start to fall into place. see this? and people don't believe me when I call hbomb trolling
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Sep 13, 2018 12:25
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Hbomberguy posted:RLM's non-Plinkett stuff was really disillusioning and informative to me when they started doing those. Like you're getting a look past the layers of intellectualising that come into the process when you're writing a script for a character. I remember that Ghostbusters 2 commentary where they nostalgically remembered a bunch of the "great moments" from the first movie in contrast to 2, which they remembered as bad, and then almost every one of the moments they mentioned happened later in the movie. yeah, well, who has more youtube subscribers? checkmate dumbass
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Sep 13, 2018 12:29
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Imo it's OK if hbomb doesn't like the bad videos
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Sep 13, 2018 13:14
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Junpei Hyde posted:Imo it's OK if hbomb doesn't like the bad videos Or does like the bad videos for that matter. Ghostlight posted:Weirder than thinking the prequels are good - to me - is the idea of disagreeing with the claim that Plinkett isn't a well structured critique of a film that sets out a hypothesis and progresses toward examining the fundamental flaws that make up the entire sequence of people talk until action scene introducing toy but largely a series of individual rebukes of the film(s) that owes its notability to happening to have a technical veneer lent to echoing the inarticulated emotional conclusions of its waiting audience. Push "You only consider it good cause it said what you wanted to hear, sheeple" harder. No way it'll come off as imbecelic this time. Also jesus tits that argument from volcabulary.
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Sep 13, 2018 13:18
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khwarezm posted:Trek has been spending a lot of time caught in a self referential loop and getting more and more ground down into just another schlocky action series. At this point even if its not 'new' I would far prefer to see the franchise go back to a more thoughtful basis where it toys with philosophical sci-fi ideas and diplomatic approaches to issues instead of 'I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE!', if it needs to bring back Picard for that then fine by me. Of course, it could just be a series about "let's fight the Borg" over and over.
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Sep 13, 2018 13:19
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Ghostlight posted:Weirder than thinking the prequels are good - to me - is the idea of disagreeing with the claim that Plinkett isn't a well structured critique of a film that sets out a hypothesis and progresses toward examining the fundamental flaws that make up the entire sequence of people talk until action scene introducing toy but largely a series of individual rebukes of the film(s) that owes its notability to happening to have a technical veneer lent to echoing the inarticulated emotional conclusions of its waiting audience. Incredible "structured critique" such as *checks notes* ...shot-reverse-shot is bad????
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Sep 13, 2018 13:25
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Recently youtube has been recommending me a lot of Karl Smallwood stuff and I can't quite stress how much this is "What if Cracked adapted their writing style into a single human and had him do Not-Listicles". Only jammed with a chunk of parasocial stuff what with him having constant exchanges with the camera guy. Now that sounds like I'm describing auditorial hell (and in some cases it gets really, really close to that) but for a somewhat amusing mini doc ordeal once every few days, it does the job. Aaand the writing style gets less bad when presented in video format, somewhat helped by having a dude off camera ask him actual human questions and observations.
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Sep 13, 2018 13:26
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nine-gear crow posted:Trek in general gets markedly better after Roddenberry dies and Maurice Hurley is fired as a writer. DS9 starts out real bland then gets crazy good in its mid-late run. And Voyager starts off decent but never really capitalizes on its premise to its full potential and reaches a quality plateau for most of its run as Rick Berman and Brannon Braga start to burn the gently caress out heading into Enterprise after doing Trek for nearly 15 years at that point while Les Moonves squirrels away behind the scenes on his yearslong campaign to finally kill Star Trek for good in between his regular job of being TV's Harvey Weinstein in terms of sexually abusing and then destroying the careers of women in the industry. DS9 started out good and got amazing. The early seasons are a refreshing change of pace from the seek out new life and new civilizations exploration of TOS and TNG (though it still has a decent amount). The station has positioned itself at the edge of a new frontier and the galaxy is coming to it. Instead of seeing the knew and unknown through the eyes of ambassadors and scientists in the Enterprise's incarnations, it's filtered through the PoV of more common folk of a newly established hub's staff and merchants. People who aren't primarily concerned with discovery but are just trying to make a living or keep everything from falling apart around them. People who aren't exactly diplomatically equipped to deal with cultures that seem alien and even barbaric to them, like the Tosk & Hunters, a situation they managed to work out in the end, but a solution someone trained to deal with this, like Kirk or Picard, would've come up with after only ten minutes from first contact to moralizing. Sisko's an especially well designed character for the role of an admin from the non-diplomatic branch of Starfleet just trying to keep things together since he's already lived through one newly discovered enemy invading the Alpha Quadrant, now he's got to worry if that might happen again through the wormhole and guess what, it does. He got in way over his head after he discovered the wormhole and the sum of his fears eventually came to pass, yet he was able to rise to the occasion no matter how many times things went wrong and grew as a character. If the Dominion had gone full-on invasion the day after the wormhole was opened, he wouldn't have been anywhere near ready, he'd have been like a level one MMO character trying to solo a world boss; in a sense, this is part of why people who say skip the first seasons are wrong, you only see who DS9's characters have become and miss out on how they got there.
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Sep 13, 2018 13:35
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Star Trek Picard is moving forward because it has moved forward from mining TOS nostalgia to mining TNG nostalgia.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:08
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StealthArcher posted:Push "You only consider it good cause it said what you wanted to hear, sheeple" harder. No way it'll come off as imbecelic this time. I apologise, English isn't my second language.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:21
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Recently rewatched part of the prequel videos and they focus more on how the problems of the production of the film spill into the final product, TLJ video does a bit of this too. As someone who's moved back to "the prequels are good again actually" I can still see how the problems pointed out in the plinkett videos do hurt the film. It's weird to me that anyone would need to disavow a critique of a movie just to elevate it's good qualities.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:41
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Ghostlight posted:
Subtle and reserved as the US President himself.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:58
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Junpei Hyde posted:Imo it's OK if hbomb doesn't like the bad videos It’s okay but if your gonna try and justify it at least be coherent. Alternatively it’s okay to not like the bad post.
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Sep 13, 2018 15:00
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Junpei Hyde posted:Imo it's OK if hbomb doesn't like the bad videos but what about the bad post about the good videos?
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Sep 13, 2018 15:05
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CharlestheHammer posted:It’s okay but if your gonna try and justify it at least be coherent. Bah, he doesn't need to justify his liking the bad videos. He does need to justify his CD-tier takes though
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Sep 13, 2018 15:08
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I do feel it’s weird Hbomberguy hates RLM as I have watched his videos on shows and from a critical point of view the styles are basically the same. From what they critic to how they do it.
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Sep 13, 2018 15:09
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