|
https://twitter.com/kawasook/status/1040357855893712896
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
did anyone ever expect the semi to make it to market?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:07
|
|
|
tesla stans?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:07
|
|
|
lol at Enron but I'm the fully autonomous vehicle
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:11
|
|
|
President Beep posted:i wonder if elon’s family lived in one of those white people compounds back in the old country. they didn't, because they directly owned a vast estate. the white people compounds were for the lesser rich who could only afford a hectare or two
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:13
|
|
|
fishmech posted:the lesser rich who could only afford a hectare or two lol. could you even imagine? i bet they even had to wait in line at the gate
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:15
|
|
|
Serious talk: until they can solve the battery issue, either via swapping or fast charge, EV semis pretty much going to be relegated to yard mule work, where's a lot of low speed applications. I'm honestly surprised they don't have cabless, diesel mules yet, but that also may be a factor with how fast they can move with the operator outside the cab.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
HAIL eSATA-n posted:lol at Enron but I'm the fully autonomous vehicle it's apparently intended for "ports, factory areas, and logistics megacenters" with no expectation that it would ever go on general-purpose roads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gc1zz5bl8I
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:16
|
|
|
rjmccall posted:it's apparently intended for "ports, factory areas, and logistics megacenters" with no expectation that it would ever go on general-purpose roads iospace posted:Serious talk: until they can solve the battery issue, either via swapping or fast charge, EV semis pretty much going to be relegated to yard mule work, where's a lot of low speed applications. I'm honestly surprised they don't have cabless, diesel mules yet, but that also may be a factor with how fast they can move with the operator outside the cab.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
yes, because volvo aren't complete morons. they understand the limits of the technology and aren't trying to sell their stock to i loving love science fanboys
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
So how did tesla even get involved with I loving love science? I stopped following that place after it devolved into clickbait.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:20
|
|
|
iospace posted:So how did tesla even get involved with I loving love science? I stopped following that place after it devolved into clickbait. I'm sure you can imagine the venn diagram between fans of one and the other, it was natural and inevitable
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:22
|
|
|
rjmccall posted:it's apparently intended for "ports, factory areas, and logistics megacenters" with no expectation that it would ever go on general-purpose roads
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:24
|
|
|
i don't think they ever "got involved," it's just that a prerequisite to being a tesla fanboy is having that reverence of pop science without actually understanding science at all
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:24
|
|
|
  
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:28
|
|
|
FMguru posted:i remember reading about autonomous vehicles moving containers around high-tech ports a decade ago. i guess the breakthrough of this unit is that its electric? (a fact that wasn't mentioned in the video for some reason) better sensors would also give it more flexible navigation of sites that might not have been specifically designed around it
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
yes, it turns out we're still not great at making computers that can navigate human environments without choking
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 05:47
|
|
|
"sensors" aren't real, this isn't a loving syfy tv show
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
better censors would do wonders for Tesla’s stock price tho
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:14
|
|
|
iospace posted:Serious talk: until they can solve the battery issue, either via swapping or fast charge, EV semis pretty much going to be relegated to yard mule work, where's a lot of low speed applications. I'm honestly surprised they don't have cabless, diesel mules yet, but that also may be a factor with how fast they can move with the operator outside the cab. We discussed the EV strategy at the last shell urban mobility summit and it is a shared view in the automotive industry that EVs will not replace the combustion engine (yes yes we do make ads that say otherwise) EVs are perfect for urban transportation with large amounts of stop and go and low speed traffic. And they solve the NOx and particle problem in urban centers. But battery powered EVs will always suck at long range. The charging and battery life become ludicrous matters and so does the car weight if you try to compete with diesel ranges or even just good petrol long range cars from years ago. Every drivetrain division in every major automotive brand knows that the best strategy is to propose a shared marked with an EV focused urban strategy and a combustion and hybrid focused rural and highway strategy. The biggest problem is that many European governments are too greedy to allow tax and insurance free second cars (especially EVs or very small petrols) which would incentivise urban population that is depended on long range individual travel to get a short range EV for city use. Tldr: EVs are perfect for short range stop and go stuff. Stop trying to make them highway monsters. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Sep 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:48
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:"sensors" aren't real, this isn't a loving syfy tv show it's a catch-all term for whatever optical/radar/sonar/lidar/whatever else they put on these things didn't think i'd have to defend that extremely obvious shorthand that basically everyone (else) in the world understands
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:49
|
|
|
Combat Theory posted:Tldr: EVs are perfect for short range stop and go stuff. Stop trying to make them highway monsters. Or, y'know, make sensible hybrids.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:49
|
|
|
Why don't they have stations where standardized battery packs get pulled in and out of trucks by machine, dropped off, charged, and picked up rather than making truckers wait to charge up
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:55
|
|
|
gschmidl posted:Or, y'know, make sensible hybrids. A hybrid on a highway is for all intends and purposes a petrol car wirh added weight. For proper long range travel diesel is the preferred solution. The diesel itself suffered a similar problem as the EV. marketing junk and bad tax design insetivised urban population to acquire drivetrains that are strictly intended for long range highway use and resulted in the air quality catastrophe that many European cities are suffering through right now. Also whenever we design hybrids we do intend them for city population still. That's why you hardly find a diesel hybrid at all. When it comes to eating miles at high speeds its best to really have as little unnecessary poo poo as possible in your car and several hundred kilos of dead HV drivetrain surely don't help. And range extenders are a fuckin joke if you look at the efficiency. It's a tough nut for the population really (and especially the fanboys) but neither drivetrain is perfect and we will see them coexist for a very, very long time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 08:59
|
|
|
Dumb Lowtax posted:Why don't they have stations where standardized battery packs get pulled in and out of trucks by machine, dropped off, charged, and picked up rather than making truckers wait to charge up The automotive industry needed over 20 years to approve a common design for a fuel tank filler neck so that petrol stations could be standardized. If they decided tomorrow that we do the battery exchange, you and me would likely not live to see the system successfully implemented and in wide use.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 09:03
|
|
|
Combat Theory posted:A hybrid on a highway is for all intends and purposes a petrol car wirh added weight. You're looking at this from an US perspective; here in Austria (and surely also other European countries) the travel distances are far shorter and a hybrid with 200km electrical range would be sufficient for most purposes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 09:10
|
|
|
gschmidl posted:You're looking at this from an US perspective; here in Austria (and surely also other European countries) the travel distances are far shorter and a hybrid with 200km electrical range would be sufficient for most purposes. I'm actually from Germany. The competition between combustion engines and electric drivetrains is market independent. the big KPIs for EVs in the current competition are range and charge rate because they do try to compete with combustion engines no matter the actual daily driving conditions. In a black and white world these are the killers one liners that the EV makers fear "you can only go xxx miles and have to charge for xx hours to fully get up to range again?!" That this implies a strictly long range /highway competition scenario is true, but unimportant given that there currently is little incentive to limit EV usage to short range driving conditions, which would be the optimum overall. Ideally, the demand would drive the market towards a shared use case scenario where both drivetrains can play to their strengths. Austria was lucky in that you have an established Wechselkennzeichen system which eases the cost of owning multiple vehicles and allows that choice to be made in the first place Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Sep 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 09:27
|
|
|
Did they ever fixed the NOx and emission problem with diesel without having to add urea or some other exotic solutions?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 10:35
|
|
|
that's not exotic at all, doesn't all new diesel vehicles have their own urea tank? i just refilled the one on the peugeot, it holds about 18L or something
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 10:52
|
|
|
Combat Theory posted:I'm actually from Germany. The competition between combustion engines and electric drivetrains is market independent. the big KPIs for EVs in the current competition are range and charge rate because they do try to compete with combustion engines no matter the actual daily driving conditions. In a black and white world these are the killers one liners that the EV makers fear "you can only go xxx miles and have to charge for xx hours to fully get up to range again?!" I’ve driven a first-generation leaf across the uk. you have to stop about every 100 miles and charge for about 30 minutes each stop. you’re comparing that to petrol where you maybe stop for a 30 minute refreshment break every 200 miles. yes, the ev takes longer, but it’s not in a totally different league, and that’s the first generation one with the lovely range. the problem is people don’t have a clue how often they actually stop or for how long in a petrol car, so they see the required stops in an ev and compare them to nothing, not reality
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 11:19
|
|
|
What's the guaranteed life expectancy for the batteries and how easily can they be exchanged? I'm not in the market for a car but if I were, that would be my number one concern as it affects the life time value I get out of it (incl. resale value). Have the EVs been around long enough to even judge that?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 11:47
|
|
|
nissan has had to replace almost all the early model leaf packs once, but that was done under warranty and they seem to be doing much better now since they haven't shortened warranty after that  the issue is once your warranty is out you're hosed, which is usually 8 years. a new pack costs $6-10k depending on car/model. most won't just die after 8 years, obviously, but it's still a big thing to worry about once warranty's out.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 11:52
|
|
|
also, renault currently has a program where you rent the battery, pay a fixed amount per month that's low enough to still be much cheaper to operate/fuel than an internal combustion car, but they guarantee you at least 80% capacity or you get a new pack IIRC, but how successful this will be remains to be seen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 11:56
|
|
|
rjmccall posted:it's apparently intended for "ports, factory areas, and logistics megacenters" with no expectation that it would ever go on general-purpose roads I'm the cloud-based coordination center for trucks that shuts a port down every time an IT operator fucks something up
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 12:59
|
|
|
MononcQc posted:I'm the cloud-based coordination center for trucks that shuts a port down every time an IT operator fucks something up you ever hear of wannacry?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:01
|
|
|
Media Bloodbath posted:What's the guaranteed life expectancy for the batteries and how easily can they be exchanged? I'm not in the market for a car but if I were, that would be my number one concern as it affects the life time value I get out of it (incl. resale value). That's the hubris of high range EV. The energy density in lithium based batteries is limited unless you want a galaxy note thing to happen. Range extension functions by cramming more batteries in, not denser ones. Lithium batteries as I wrote before here somewhere have 3 major aging mechanisms, top off voltage, duty cycle and charge current. Higher voltages reduce battery life cycles, higher charging currents reduce battery life cycles. Using a cycle range of maximum voltage to minimum voltage reduces the battery life cycles. All 3 are highly important KPIs for the EV market. The rate at which the batteries age, especially using fast charging mechanics, is an order of magnitude over the aging and wear of combustion engines and drivetrains and further emphasizes the point about EVs being a poor replacement for internal combustion engines when it comes to clocking a lot of KM in the shortest time possible. For IC engines it's quite the opposite actually. Highway driving and clocking kilometers will significantly increase the lifetime of the drivetrain compared to mixed or pure urban use. Here's a graph of the effect of charging voltage on the cycle capacity of lithium cells https://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/lithium2.jpg Here's a graph of the influence of the capacity drop at different duty cycles for lithium cells https://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/capacity-retention3.jpg The aging effect of fast charging is mostly dependent on the thermal load of the battery during fast charge, so it's a case by case basis and depends on battery layout and cooling solutions. Combat Theory fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:15
|
|
|
also, if you live anywhere appreciably north and don't have a garage, rip your battery in the winter
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:20
|
|
|
Truga posted:also, if you live anywhere appreciably north and don't have a garage, rip your battery in the winter We did some tests wirh a last gen nissan leaf and found that in short range winter use, between 30 and 50 percent of the battery charge is used for things other than driving. Mostly the ptc heater which is an even bigger energy drain than the air con, which most people use in tandem to defrost the windows.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:23
|
|
|
dang. how does that compare to warm weather operation?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:24 |
|
|
I live in the north, ~240km from the next major city down south, so an electric vehicle pretty much means "remain in your remote area forever" and they just cannot be workable. I'm curious to see what the impact would be if plans like "only electric vehicles sold after <year>" were to be tried here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2018 13:27
|
|