Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Judging by the name 'the Syndicate', I'm guessing something like a Space Mafia or the Darloks from Master of Orion.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Reharakhti
Oct 9, 2012

Secretly Sekhmet
Age of Wonders: Planetfall – Dev Diary #14: The Unit Module System



Kir'ko T3

Mods changing appearance, wonder if it works with the jetpack equipped at the same time..

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Yes, this is the selling point of the game for me and it looks like it delivers nice and hard.

uber_stoat
Jan 21, 2001



Pillbug
this is gonna be so good. hell yeah.

Doobie Keebler
May 9, 2005

I'm pretty psyched for this too. Every update has looked great!

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Oh yes, I'm hyped, too.

I wonder how viable it will be to go all in on offensive abilities for example. Sounds like a balancing nightmare, but I'm very excited to experiment with so many possible combinations.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]




SpAsians

Reharakhti
Oct 9, 2012

Secretly Sekhmet
Age of Wonders: Planetfall – Dev Diary #15: Promethean Secret Tech and Doomsday Victory



Promethean units
Can see some lighting/ post processing improvement in the unit view panel.


Gas the planet :black101:

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
It's a cool idea to have the victory condition(s) be different for each "class"/secret tech. Especially if some of them are more peaceful.

This particular version looks a bit like the seal victory from AoW3.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Legit badass that the Promethean finisher is literally turning the whole planet into a Fuel Air Bomb.

Fitzy Fitz
May 14, 2005




Torrannor posted:

It's a cool idea to have the victory condition(s) be different for each "class"/secret tech. Especially if some of them are more peaceful.

This particular version looks a bit like the seal victory from AoW3.

I really liked the seals. They kept the matches war-oriented while avoiding the usual 4X late-game tediousness.

Ceramic Shot
Dec 21, 2006

The stars aren't in the right places.
The factions look great so far. Ugh, I really hope a beta comes out sometime this year. Really want to make marine squads boosted by plant people mods.

Hoping they eventually add an extra strategic layer at some point. I loved the underground/shadow realm layers in previous games, and it should work in a sci-fi setting really well too.

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.
Call to power had the undersea stuff as well as the aerospace layer, I'd love to see that make a return.

Reharakhti
Oct 9, 2012

Secretly Sekhmet
Dev diary time again!
Age of Wonders: Planetfall – Dev Diary #16: Colony Development Part I



A lot more to city management than AOW3


Economy part of the tech tree


Colonisers for each race, looks like:
Dvar, Amazon, Kir'ko, Vanguard, Assembly, Syndicate

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
Yeah, I definitely am gonna be playing Kir'ko and Assembly based on their aesthetic. Maybe Syndicate, if they're more space culty/jedi, rather than space elfy.

So colonies are cities, and Sectors are like the ones in Endless Legend but more granular, and but there might be a way to reshape them slightly. What is the equivalent of Empires called, again?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
This is very good, and another step in the right direction. Cities in AoW were very indistinguishable apart from size (1-4). Cities in AoW2 could theoretically end up the same over a long game, but in practice you won long before you could build a mage tower everywhere for example. Cities in AoW3 could end up quite different depending on the special buildings around them.

But this is another step forward, and I really like it. I found the economic side still a bit underdeveloped in AoW3, this looks like proper city management. The surrounding terrain seems even more important, making each colony feel pretty unique hopefully.

Have they said anything about a campaign? I would guess we would lead the Vanguard in rebuilding the Star Union as one scenario, given the usual AoW storyline.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
One of the blog posts implied there'd be a campaign for each faction. I'm assuming it'll be done in the style of the older games where you only get around three maps per faction, but we might get either a massively huge campaign or go in a new direction. I think the campaign has yet to be ironed out.

Reharakhti
Oct 9, 2012

Secretly Sekhmet
New Faction video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVWEqKpfrGM

Voiceover is a bit cringey, but the units look cool.


:D

orangelex44
Oct 11, 2012

Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.
This game is going to be so good. I'm really hoping the 2019 release date is in January.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Looks really promising. It's refreshing that the bug units for once don't have a hive mind (any longer).

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Before I read the thread had anything been said about charm type stuff?

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Splicer posted:

Before I read the thread had anything been said about charm type stuff?

Converting other units to your side? No, I don't remember the devs mentioning anything like that.

It's not fully out of the question. Flavor wise, it could fit the psionic factions for example.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Torrannor posted:

Looks really promising. It's refreshing that the bug units for once don't have a hive mind (any longer).

rip sword of the stars 2, one of the only games that did bugs in a cool way

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
Bugfriends are cool, sci-fi shadow demons.

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"
Fun Shoe

Splicer posted:

Before I read the thread had anything been said about charm type stuff?

We are attempting to learn from our past mistakes! Right now you cannot mind control a unit AND take it out of combat and keep it in its original form. Some units have abilities that let them take over an enemy unit, and then keep it as a different unit. For example, the Kir'ko Ravenous can eat an enemy unit, then vomit it out as a little worm monster which the player can then keep when they leave combat.

DrManiac
Feb 29, 2012

Gerblyn posted:

We are attempting to learn from our past mistakes! Right now you cannot mind control a unit AND take it out of combat and keep it in its original form. Some units have abilities that let them take over an enemy unit, and then keep it as a different unit. For example, the Kir'ko Ravenous can eat an enemy unit, then vomit it out as a little worm monster which the player can then keep when they leave combat.




Being able to jack an entire stack of guys was the best part of playing a mage.

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Turn your enemies into poop bugs!

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"
Fun Shoe

DrManiac posted:

Being able to jack an entire stack of guys was the best part of playing a mage.

You can still do that. They just will look a bit different once you leave combat is all!

The issue in AoW3 was that the player could bypass the city production queue completely and just mass charm whole armies, which led to big balance issues, especially in Play by Email games. We looked into other options, like having mind controlled units randomly break free after the battle was over, but they all looked became quite fiddly and annoying.

Reharakhti
Oct 9, 2012

Secretly Sekhmet
Age of Wonders: Planetfall – Dev Diary #17: The Kir'ko Faction Unleashed


Kir'ko wallpaper!


First naval unit we've (sorta) seen





Edit:

This was the first thing I saw when I looked at the Emergent unit:



You're welcome

Reharakhti fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Oct 18, 2018

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

Gerblyn posted:

You can still do that. They just will look a bit different once you leave combat is all!

The issue in AoW3 was that the player could bypass the city production queue completely and just mass charm whole armies, which led to big balance issues, especially in Play by Email games. We looked into other options, like having mind controlled units randomly break free after the battle was over, but they all looked became quite fiddly and annoying.
This still seems to have the same root issue, where you directly gain units to the strategic layer without a per-unit strategic cost.

Purely for vanity reasons, where did only getting to keep them post combat if you pay a cost equivalent in strategic resources break down?

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸
Also sorry for diving straight in with the kvetching I'm super hype for the game! Looking forward to sticking bugs on things.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

What's good about this change is that if you eat a t3 unit, assumedly you still get a t1 or t2 out instead of a t3, and even if you get a t3, it's abilities won't be busted for your class.

In aow3 pbem people were getting t3 armies on turn 15ish by going into high level dungeons/wizard spires/whatever and abusing conversion, which got them better units earlier and more frequently than trying to produce them. Idk the exact number stats because that scene sounded so dumb that I didn't want any involvement with it, but I can tell you it was really absurd. Running into a t4 angel on turn 13 and converting it just breaks the game, there's nothing else comparable in power to that at that point in the game, and you more or less get it for free (you still have the unit you used to convert it, afterall)

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

bugs look cool. anyone see if they put up any other wallpapers?

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
I mean I loved it because playing druid pokemon with all the animals ruled but I understand why its gone

:sigh:

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I cast at thee
🧙🐀🧹🌙🪄🐸

ninjewtsu posted:

What's good about this change is that if you eat a t3 unit, assumedly you still get a t1 or t2 out instead of a t3, and even if you get a t3, it's abilities won't be busted for your class.

In aow3 pbem people were getting t3 armies on turn 15ish by going into high level dungeons/wizard spires/whatever and abusing conversion, which got them better units earlier and more frequently than trying to produce them. Idk the exact number stats because that scene sounded so dumb that I didn't want any involvement with it, but I can tell you it was really absurd. Running into a t4 angel on turn 13 and converting it just breaks the game, there's nothing else comparable in power to that at that point in the game, and you more or less get it for free (you still have the unit you used to convert it, afterall)
I should have phrased that as it only solving half the root cause. The other half is that there's often no strategic opportunity cost to catching a thing on a per-thing basis. To give the archetypal example, you've pretty much finished a fight or are otherwise fighting a fight that you can't lose. You can either wrap it up quick OR start chain webbing a unit so you can get some risk-free charm in because the only strategic downside to grabbing this unit is the upkeep cost. NOT catching the unit would be really dumb, because there's no strategic trade-off. The only resource is your patience.

Zore posted:

I mean I loved it because playing druid pokemon with all the animals ruled but I understand why its gone

:sigh:
That's the other reason why I'm Very Interested in charm effects, because I love playing catch them all, but since there's no downside to catching them all, failing to catch one feels extra bad. If catching one came with a strategic cost then if I don't catch one then I haven't "wasted" the opportunity, since it means I still have <potential strategic cost>, or I might decide to deliberately not catch one because it's not worth <strategic cost>.

Ceramic Shot
Dec 21, 2006

The stars aren't in the right places.

ninjewtsu posted:

What's good about this change is that if you eat a t3 unit, assumedly you still get a t1 or t2 out instead of a t3, and even if you get a t3, it's abilities won't be busted for your class.

In aow3 pbem people were getting t3 armies on turn 15ish by going into high level dungeons/wizard spires/whatever and abusing conversion, which got them better units earlier and more frequently than trying to produce them. Idk the exact number stats because that scene sounded so dumb that I didn't want any involvement with it, but I can tell you it was really absurd. Running into a t4 angel on turn 13 and converting it just breaks the game, there's nothing else comparable in power to that at that point in the game, and you more or less get it for free (you still have the unit you used to convert it, afterall)

The changes look good to me too but I was wondering:

I don't play with that mod, but isn't charm/convert less of a problem in aow3 if you just change the settings such that either (1) you start with smaller starting armies making those high-level dungeon raids less viable in early game or (2) crank up the difficulty of the dungeons?

Grabbing early ogres/trolls in Ancient Ruins is nice since they have trouble resisting charms, but if you miss that ~50% chance and don't have a big starting army to back you up, in a lot of cases you're going to get a hero pulped with a club. Maybe if charmed/converted units had an "enthralled" tag added on that gave them extra mana upkeep and/or some stat penalties it would balance things a little better?

I play offline so I dunno if there are tournament-standard settings or whatever, but I feel like the charm/convert problem is overblown a bit taking settings into account. It's also possible I'm playing sub-optimally since the AI is quite bad on skirmish mode.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde
Honestly my fav charm shenanigans was necromancer ones.

And you get the ghoul plague! And you get the ghoul plague! But not you, you resisted. Oh well, it is a flip of a coin.

And then they have the problems of being a ghoul but not the time spent embalming them in a city. Seemed like a fair middle ground for a unit that came alittle later.

ninjewtsu
Oct 9, 2012

Ceramic Shot posted:

The changes look good to me too but I was wondering:

I don't play with that mod, but isn't charm/convert less of a problem in aow3 if you just change the settings such that either (1) you start with smaller starting armies making those high-level dungeon raids less viable in early game or (2) crank up the difficulty of the dungeons?

Grabbing early ogres/trolls in Ancient Ruins is nice since they have trouble resisting charms, but if you miss that ~50% chance and don't have a big starting army to back you up, in a lot of cases you're going to get a hero pulped with a club. Maybe if charmed/converted units had an "enthralled" tag added on that gave them extra mana upkeep and/or some stat penalties it would balance things a little better?

I play offline so I dunno if there are tournament-standard settings or whatever, but I feel like the charm/convert problem is overblown a bit taking settings into account. It's also possible I'm playing sub-optimally since the AI is quite bad on skirmish mode.

I'm pretty sure they played with the smallest starting army, whatever is the default. Idk how upping the defender strength impacts that, on one hand it's harder to grab ogres, on the other hand there's way more ogres to grab.

I'm not 100% sure how it's done but I never got the impression that losing your army to ogres was a huge concern. I imagine once you have 2 ogres, well, when you try to take the third ogre, you've got two ogres. It kind of explodes once you get started.

Gerblyn
Apr 4, 2007

"TO BATTLE!"
Fun Shoe

Splicer posted:

Purely for vanity reasons, where did only getting to keep them post combat if you pay a cost equivalent in strategic resources break down?

The issue is it's not just the unit's gold/mana cost that's been skipped, it's also the production time in the city/spell book that's been skipped as well. It possible that having the player need to pay some kind of binding cost to keep the unit after combat would help, though.

If we make AoW4, we'll need to bring the feature back, so we'll need to come up with some kind of solution!

As for the current idea not fixing the root cause, the mind-control-esque ways of acquiring units are only really available in the mid to late game, and only give you low tier units (the kir'ko worm is tier 1, but can evole into a T2). The balance issues of players snowballing the early game shouldn't come up (we hope!)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Having to pay the base price plus extra could work, it'd be sort of similar to the diplomacy skill in Heroes of Might and Magic.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply