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50 starbases is an insane amount and I can't imagine how many planets you would need to colonize in order to get that, or what the hell you would do with their output. I think at that point honestly you're going to be making a loss, in that you're spending so much on expansion and keeping up with unity/research generation, that you actually have less to spend on everything else. Like, six or so planets is a quite large empire for me, and I constantly run out of things to spend all my resources on while leading in tech and traditions. And I have absolutely no idea how many bloody habitats you'd need to build to hit that pop level on a 0.25 habitable medium galaxy  15 starbases is a pretty normal amount I think, one or two from pops but mostly from the techs and traditions. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 12:17
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OwlFancier posted:15 starbases is a pretty normal amount I think, one or two from pops but mostly from the techs and traditions. 20 with the Ascension perk, and I tend to get 5-10 more just because I like to fill all my planets with tons of robots. So sounds about right.
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Oct 18, 2018 12:24
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I tend not to bother with the perk because I don't need more of them but sure, 20 if you take that. It's a good perk to be sure because you can convert it to a lot of things depending on what you build with it but it's just not something I've ever needed.
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Oct 18, 2018 12:33
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OwlFancier posted:50 starbases is an insane amount and I can't imagine how many planets you would need to colonize in order to get that, or what the hell you would do with their output. I think at that point honestly you're going to be making a loss, in that you're spending so much on expansion and keeping up with unity/research generation, that you actually have less to spend on everything else. 50 starbases is probably 3 base+4 from non-repeatable tech+2 from tradition+1 from the repeatable tech just to get to a nice round 10. Then something like 200 systems for +10 cap, leaving +30 from pop. Thats 1200 pop, which is a lot but reachable with a lot of habitats and colonizing every planet you get your hands on. With Master Builders that would be 80 habitats, but that's without any actual planets. More likely is something like 30 planets+ring world or two+30 habitats. Knock off another dozen habitats/planets if you take Grasp the Void. It's still a lot of influence spent on habitats, but doable if you get Voidborne early, then maybe get Ascension Theory soonish for the influence abition. People really overestimate how big the hit from increased tradition/tech costs is. Remember that the penalty is linear. 5% per planet for tech means maybe 3-4 labs, and unity is basically just the monument building line and stuff you'd want anyway like energy nexus or paradise dome. Even a 20% habitability size 10 shitball is profitable. Systems are what can't keep up later on. Bigger empire means more starbase cap, which means more anchorages, which means you can dump a lot of minerals into navy. Plus 10k per habitat adds up. If you still run out of stuff to spend minerals on you can bribe other empires, or stuff it in sectors in case you later need it against a crisis or AE or something. Plus if you really don't need minerals you can just build more labs instead of mines and lead in tech even harder. Personally I think I hit 6 planets by 2225ish most of the time? Not sure since I haven't played in a while, playing with tiles when you know you soon won't ever have to again just feels bad. As fast as I can anyway, early on I don't survey any system that doesn't have a habitable planet unless it's on the way to another system that does.
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Oct 18, 2018 12:43
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For those not in the know, there will be an extra special 2 hour stream this week. Starting in roughly ~90 minutes from this post: https://twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/1052859820708061185 The only reason I can think of for them to specifically tell us there will be no announcements is to try and throw us off, so there will definitely be an announcement of some kind. You should watch. Also, this week's diary go posted right as I was looking through twitter: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-130-new-and-changed-technologies-in-le-guin.1124355/ Hum... why not both? 
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Oct 18, 2018 12:46
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New dev diary up - resort planets, penal colonies  E;fb canepazzo fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 12:46
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Looks pretty good, but I'm a bit concerned about just adding new techs without (apparently) removing any of the old ones. I suspect the tech deck system will work worse the more bloated the decks get. Resort planets and penal colonies are a nice buff for big empires, which is good since the empire cap system will favor smaller empires.
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Oct 18, 2018 12:56
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I hope the flavour text for establishing a penal colony is EVERY MORNING I WAKE UP AND OPEN PALM SLAM A VHS INTO THE SLOT...
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Oct 18, 2018 13:00
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Psychotic Weasel posted:The only reason I can think of for them to specifically tell us there will be no announcements is to try and throw us off, so there will definitely be an announcement of some kind. You should watch They revealed the release date of CK2's last DLC in Friday's extra long CK2 stream, so it makes sense to dampen expectations of the same thing happening in the Stellaris stream.
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Oct 18, 2018 13:02
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Well I mean the new empire cap system would appear to not really favour either, because it literally grows with your productive capacity regardless of how you distribute it. And if anything the removal of the cap from owning systems then massively boosts large empires as long as they limit their colonization. Currently a "tall" empire is either geographically concentrated or, more correctly I think, is an empire that only colonizes big planets, but the new caps are getting rid of that dichotomy because big planets just affect how many advanced buildings you can build, and that's also dictated by how many raw production districts you have, so you only need a certain number of large planets per raw production output anyway.
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Oct 18, 2018 13:02
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Staltran posted:which is ridiculously condescending, and frankly insulting. Do you not see that a lot of people do "all these weird optimizations" (taking Voidborne I guess?) precisely to have fun, and telling them to shut up is completely inappropriate? You sounded like you were mad someone was playing the game differently from you. I've never told anyone to shut up, I'm certainly not mad, and I'm sorry if my posts came off that way to you. The primary thought I was trying to get across was "If that's fun, okay, but you sound like you're not having fun, maybe try changing things to be more fun if that's the case?" If I've caused any offense, I apologize, it was completely unintentional.
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Oct 18, 2018 13:10
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Torrannor posted:They revealed the release date of CK2's last DLC in Friday's extra long CK2 stream, so it makes sense to dampen expectations of the same thing happening in the Stellaris stream. To clarify, I was being facetious - I don't expect they will actually tell us anything we don't already know unless we have a repeat of the HoI4 stream and a ton of things get leaked. If I'm wrong though then that's still good. Looking forward to the name and release date of this expansion as much as anyone else. Next week's diary topic has been decided but is currently classified. But from Wiz's hint we'll enjoy it none the less. If anything I suspect that is when the announcement will be made and they'll start delving into the paid features.
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Oct 18, 2018 13:35
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For the first time ever in my game the Enigmatic Cache talked to me. It offered me ascention for my species which I said yes to. Now it's a project in my diary asking for a scientist to be in orbit. But there is one in orbit and I don't see anything I can actually do. Is it bugged or do I just wait? Edit: The answer is to put a science ship in orbit (not assisting like I was!) and you can do it from the log. Taear fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 13:44
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I've been wondering what this cogzerg resource is about for a while now and it just gets more and more intriguing m-m-magic??
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Oct 18, 2018 14:20
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No it's that hand you make where if someone looks at it you get to punch them.
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Oct 18, 2018 14:35
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Autonomous Monster posted:I've been wondering what this cogzerg resource is about for a while now and it just gets more and more intriguing Almost certainly something to do with ancient and/or psychic artifacts that do terrible things if you press the wrong button. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Oct 18, 2018 15:06
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I'm not sure I can get too excited about a bunch of new techs that just increase resource production by a whopping 10% for a specific method of production of that resource, seems like a waste of space. Hopefully that's not enough to distract from all the other neat stuff that seems to be there. But I think there's a lot better ways you could implement the output of specific resources improving with tech over time, if anything, I'd rather see larger bonuses granted in specific circumstances (that players have control over). Edit: To be fair this is addressed in the Dev diary directly, I still question the value of having up to three techs per boost clogging up the tech cards though. I hope to see more examples of more interesting ways to boost resource production in the future. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 15:57
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Magil Zeal posted:I'm not sure I can get too excited about a bunch of new techs that just increase resource production by a whopping 10% for a specific method of production of that resource, seems like a waste of space. Hopefully that's not enough to distract from all the other neat stuff that seems to be there. But I think there's a lot better ways you could implement the output of specific resources improving with tech over time, if anything, I'd rather see larger bonuses granted in specific circumstances (that players have control over).
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Oct 18, 2018 16:10
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Most of those techs were already in the game. Except instead of giving you a better building to build/upgrade they just apply the bonus directly to what is already being produced. The new ones are for improvements to mining bases (which currently just stagnate as the game goes on). There's also a few for the new buildings system they're introducing as well that will allow you to specialize a planet to your liking. On an unrelated note, several people were able to catch a leak in the original dev diary and the Stellaris Twitter feed that indicated a large announcement is coming on the 24th (next Wednesday). This week's stream had a number of teasers and a couple leaks but nothing major - I'll have to watch it again when I'm hope and can pay closer attention to it.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:10
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This is the picture that was briefly in the DD and a previous tweet, now tweeted again. https://twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/1052937138231279617
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Oct 18, 2018 16:14
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Ah perfect. I didn't see them put it back up. Guess they figured since the cat's already out of the bag why bother hiding it. A lot of people thought the date may be wrong since the diaries always come on Thursday but looks like they're sticking to it. Hope podcat doesn't have anything important to talk about in Man the Guns next week.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:19
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Psychotic Weasel posted:Hum... why not both? Australia?
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Oct 18, 2018 16:27
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It looks like having access to any sort of population control edicts is locked behind an empire policy. My worry is that "good" empires won't be able to use them due to angry factions because the game assumes any attempt to stabilize population growth means authoritarian one child policy style poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:41
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Autonomous Monster posted:I've been wondering what this cogzerg resource is about for a while now and it just gets more and more intriguing Nice. More of these please. Love my cosmic horrors.
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Oct 18, 2018 16:45
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Baronjutter posted:It looks like having access to any sort of population control edicts is locked behind an empire policy. My worry is that "good" empires won't be able to use them due to angry factions because the game assumes any attempt to stabilize population growth means authoritarian one child policy style poo poo. 
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Oct 18, 2018 16:51
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Cherry 2000 is a bold vision of the future where you get issued a sexbot by the state  I had a sneaking feeling that population controls and not having a pop balanced multicultural empire are going to be a "challenge" in 2.2 just like trying to destroy pops was previously soo yeah look forward to the robot hive mind playthrough to check out the new stuff, hope the new expansion isn't too far out.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:04
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Anno posted:This is the picture that was briefly in the DD and a previous tweet, now tweeted again. A free can of substandard lager for every player?
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Oct 18, 2018 17:06
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This joke was also made internally
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Oct 18, 2018 17:11
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Splicer posted:I can easily think of thre non-authoritarian ways to reduce population growth and only one of them looks like this What are the other two? All I can think of is free contraceptives / abortions and financial incentives to have fewer than 3 kids; the first is a band-aid at best and the second doesn't work in a welfare state.
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Oct 18, 2018 17:12
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Nevets posted:What are the other two? All I can think of is free contraceptives / abortions and financial incentives to have fewer than 3 kids; the first is a band-aid at best and the second doesn't work in a welfare state. The second is as you said financial incentives, which as you said requires people to need financial incentives. This implies some degree of an underclass, but not necessarily an authoritarian setup. Remember that actual equality in 2.2 requires end game resources or a particular civic. There's also non-monetary incentives: there's only so many pleasure planet slots a year, and X are reserved for single child families. Also now that I'm thinking enough to type things out there's a fourth option of social pressure. If having lots of kids is looked down on in your society most people will have less kids. Social incentives are still incentives. Targeted advertising and education slash propaganda campaigns don't necessarily require an authoritarian setup, but egalitarians would obviously find it a bit dubious. These latter two can both be represented in-game as straightforward money in -> less kids out. Soft incentives over flexing the long arm of the law. So you could have the "It's illegal to go full Duggar" option, which gives you a big reduction but also unrest, or the "It's dumb to go full Duggar, join the One Is Fun club today!", which is less effective but causes less rioting.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:20
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Don't forget contraceptive drugs in the water supply.
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Oct 18, 2018 18:59
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I think any kind of involuntary contraception / sterilization ends up being authoritarian. Consider all the poo poo GMO's & vaccines get despite there being no scientific evidence they are harmful. Now imagine if they wanted to put something in the water that this guy I know says might keep you from getting a boner?
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Oct 18, 2018 19:07
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Dear Stellaris stop doing that thing where you forget all of my mods exist randomly 
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Oct 18, 2018 19:07
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Nevets posted:I think any kind of involuntary contraception / sterilization ends up being authoritarian. Consider all the poo poo GMO's & vaccines get despite there being no scientific evidence they are harmful. Now imagine if they wanted to put something in the water that this guy I know says might keep you from getting a boner? Opt-out contraception is only definitively authoritarian if it's a secret or if the government controls access to the antidote pills. If it's just that you have to make a conscious choice to pick up some freely available anti-anti-baby pills then it's like any other government public health program. e: though specifically contraceptives in the water supply would be a terrible form of opt-out contraception for loads of reasons. Splicer fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 19:26
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It's not authoritarian if nobody knows about it!
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Oct 18, 2018 19:34
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Nevets posted:I think any kind of involuntary contraception / sterilization ends up being authoritarian. Consider all the poo poo GMO's & vaccines get despite there being no scientific evidence they are harmful. Now imagine if they wanted to put something in the water that this guy I know says might keep you from getting a boner? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy Reality is way ahead of you
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Oct 18, 2018 19:35
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I'd love to have the opposite problem in my fully automated luxury gay communist utopia where people barely grow and the state has to give huge expensive incentives to grow the population. Where the default is low/no growth and I need special edicts to really get people to drop their fulfilling careers and leisure time and focus on people-production. That or have lovely utopias self-regulate better, as in the population growth will just naturally peter out based on housing conditions on the planet. What I'm really not looking forward to is potentially "to make different ethos more different and thus more fun egalitarians have to constantly worry about malthusian over-population nightmares"
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Oct 18, 2018 19:40
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Well, it sounds like overpopulation won't really be a 'problem' as such, as population over housing will just result in excess peoples mysteriously vanishing over time. Maybe happiness penalties? Have they said that?
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Oct 18, 2018 20:56
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Baronjutter posted:I'd love to have the opposite problem in my fully automated luxury gay communist utopia where people barely grow and the state has to give huge expensive incentives to grow the population. Where the default is low/no growth and I need special edicts to really get people to drop their fulfilling careers and leisure time and focus on people-production I, too, want Panda portraits in Stellaris.
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Oct 18, 2018 20:56
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Strudel Man posted:Well, it sounds like overpopulation won't really be a 'problem' as such, as population over housing will just result in excess peoples mysteriously vanishing over time. Excess pops will increase emigration push from the planet, but if they've got nowhere better to emigrate too then presumably they just stay there.
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Oct 18, 2018 21:15
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