|
Dapper_Swindler posted:true. though my favorite new vegas was broken mess when it came out, but it was also, you know, new vegas. if bethesda starts adding features and content fixes for 76, i might give it a shot someday. It's more of an extension of my personal feelings on Fallout 4 and the direction of the series, but I don't think a "fixed" and "better" Fallout 76 is at all what I want. I'd rather Bethesda take their lumps on 76 and then deliver something really bold and different for their next games. I'd hate for the lessons learned to be "well people didn't like it when the servers went down, but they're still really into Vault Boy so let's keep doubling down on that."
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 19:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
"Maybe we should think about how the shtick of 'irrationally angry dude' performances might have contributed to the organization and increase of groups of chuds" "UGH I can't believe you want to tone police people who are angry about legitimate things!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
Puppy Time posted:"Maybe we should think about how the shtick of 'irrationally angry dude' performances might have contributed to the organization and increase of groups of chuds" I mean anyone that argues that people who were angry about Star Wars in general created chuds might have way to much time on their hands.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 19:55
|
|
|
Antifa Turkeesian posted:I can't watch it until tomorrow, but Maggie Mae Fish put out a video about Fight Club that I imagine is super-timely in light of the cliff the culture has gone over between 1999 and now: Will be interesting to compare this to the Struggle Session podcast's recent episode on how Fight Club was vastly misinterpreted.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 20:03
|
|
|
Nostalghia Critique by Kyle Kallgren. It's really good.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 20:37
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Nostalghia Critique by Kyle Kallgren. It's really good. Oh poo poo! I was watching this just now. Yes, people should go watch it, immediately!
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 20:44
|
|
|
Paladin posted:Will be interesting to compare this to the Struggle Session podcast's recent episode on how Fight Club was vastly misinterpreted. I mean, the film glamourised Tyler much more than the book did, and not just because he was played by Brad Pitt.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 20:48
|
|
|
FoldableHuman posted:I mean, on one hand the shouty YouTubers are typically pretty lock step with the opinions of the IGNs, and on the same hand shouty YouTubers form literally an unbroken gradient from nice dudes who use shouty as a brand all the way to the anti-SJW Kekistan crowd.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Nostalghia Critique by Kyle Kallgren. It's really good. god this rules.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:01
|
|
|
Puppy Time posted:"Maybe we should think about how the shtick of 'irrationally angry dude' performances might have contributed to the organization and increase of groups of chuds" Maybe we should think about how the shtick of 'irrationally gushing attachment to consumer products' performances might have contributed to the organization and increase of groups of chuds. Like I understand your frustration with this discussion, but like I was getting at before if you just approach this topic by diagnosing specific pathologies in content than your going to get in mostly bad faith arguments with other nerds and not actually further any positive socialization. Like "maybe we should talk about" and "lets haver a national conversation" are not things that do anything to combat this pathologic content they just frame it into a discourse we can have a culture war in. It's my opinion that these sort of performative relationships with consumed media are just a larger symptom of a society mostly unwilling to politically engage with anything that is upstream from pop culture. I don't mean to draw this out since I also hate 'irrationally angry dude' poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:02
|
|
|
unhinged anger or joy is just one of those nerd things I've never been able to see as anything but insecurity
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:I mean, the film glamourised Tyler much more than the book did, and not just because he was played by Brad Pitt. It also turns Tyler into more of a hypocrite with a few subtle changes in Edward Norton's narration. I always thought that was a neat little touch in the film.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:03
|
|
|
A Gnarlacious Bro posted:unhinged anger or joy is just one of those nerd things I've never been able to see as anything but insecurity Yeah it really sucks when someone is really happy about something 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:06
|
|
|
Andrast posted:Yeah it really sucks when someone is really happy about something Being happy about stuff can sometimes be bad
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:12
|
|
|
Dork457 posted:It's more of an extension of my personal feelings on Fallout 4 and the direction of the series, but I don't think a "fixed" and "better" Fallout 76 is at all what I want. I'd rather Bethesda take their lumps on 76 and then deliver something really bold and different for their next games. I'd hate for the lessons learned to be "well people didn't like it when the servers went down, but they're still really into Vault Boy so let's keep doubling down on that." i like 4 and even 3. they definitely don't have the depth or cohesive focused themes/questions/bite/stories that NV does. but the game worlds,smaller stories/gameplay are fun enough. its not amazing but it works. 76 doesn't have enough substance. its trying to do what the various shock games did and tell its story through audio-logs/notes/environmental story set ups. but when thats all there is and because you know the end of every story because no human NPCs. then it falls apart. its just borderlands but somehow worse. my dream idea was alot more of build anywhere and join factions but with maybe 60 to 100 players on a server. you could form little kingdoms and do quests, or join/make factions and ally or fight other factions. if you wanted to be some neagan type poo poo head with tamed deathclaws and friends to raid poo poo. cool. if you want to build a hospital/merchant town. cool. you want to set up a brotherhood/enclave faction. cool.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:14
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Nostalghia Critique by Kyle Kallgren. It's really good. I can't watch this but I skipped through it to see if he took the piss out of that Don Draper false etymology, and it looks like he did. Good man, Kyle. I loving hate that scene because it taught so many people the wrong thing and let them feel self-satisfied with it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:20
|
|
|
Dork457 posted:I think it just has the side effect of just keeping the brand in people's faces for longer, for a game that will ultimately utilize that public consciousness staying power once their first round of content updates rolls around. Then you'll start seeing articles like "Fallout 76 then & now" about how now's finally a great time to jump in. Ultimately marketing will keep this game alive and no hard lessons will be learned. With how much of a gruesome wreck the game is and how little bethesda already seem to care about fixing it, I really doubt this is what'll happen. The game's absolutely covered in broken or half-baked mechanics as well as the usual heaps of bugs they've never cared to fix in lieu of having the community do it, the game's getting half off or more sales like a week after release, the actual thread's been joking about how long it's gonna take for the game to really hit rock bottom and go F2P, since it's not like they don't already have the way overpriced cash shop set up anyway. That and a big legal scrap is actually starting up around the game now too, because bethesda pulled some bullshit where customers aren't being allowed refunds you'd normally be clear on because ohhh you got the digital version, you see that plays by these hokey rules we made up and no refunds in that case! Except they literally did not print physical copies of the game and so every version is the digital version, thus screwing everyone out of refunds they'd normally be covered on. FO76 is one of the most openly consumer hostile games in a while and legit deserves to be poo poo all over. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Nov 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:44
|
|
|
fallout 76 is fuckin hilarious, i don't understand how bethesda thought that making a game with all the bugs and jank of a standard bethesda product with none of the other stuff that makes people tolerate that bullshit was ever even remotely a good idea i mean poo poo man don't their games still have remnants of code from mother fuckin morrowind in them? how goddamn long are they gonna hamstring themselves sticking to tech that's older than some of their audience at this point? it's not 2002 anymore, major games being this buggy and janky isn't ok, frankly it wasn't even ok by the time skyrim dropped and that itself was 8 years ago and it's irritating as hell that they've gotten a free pass for this long.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
They also didn't let you uninstall the beta unless you bought the full game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:49
|
|
|
DEEP STATE PLOT posted:fallout 76 is fuckin hilarious, i don't understand how bethesda thought that making a game with all the bugs and jank of a standard bethesda product with none of the other stuff that makes people tolerate that bullshit was ever even remotely a good idea i think its because with skyrim, fallout 3 and 4 and NV(same engine) and even oblivion. there was a ton of poo poo to do and a bunch of ways to accomplish stuff, plus mods. with 76, its broken loot shooter but with out the fun. sure the lore is good but the ending is always the same and the baddies are boring.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:They also didn't let you uninstall the beta unless you bought the full game. Holding disc space hostage is an innovative way to sell your game I guess
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:54
|
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:i like 4 and even 3. they definitely don't have the depth or cohesive focused themes/questions/bite/stories that NV does. but the game worlds,smaller stories/gameplay are fun enough. its not amazing but it works. Jon of Many A True Nerd did a great video called 'Fallout 3 Is Better Than You Think.' You could die of alcohol poisoning if you took a shot every time somebody said 'Bethestard' in the comment section however.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 21:55
|
|
|
4 is really bad, Far Harbor is alright though
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
I'm kinda baffled the whole "No you can't re-spec your character, best hope that talent/perk you picked 42 levels ago was optimal!" thing is still, you know, a thing. It was already bullshit back in Diablo 2. From 2006 onward most games had a system that charged you some resource to reset your choices, and nowadays it's often just free on a cooldown. And the games that didn't have it had mods that essentially just let you cheese it, and thank Yahweh for those.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 22:23
|
|
|
Fabricated posted:4 is really bad, Far Harbor is alright though i think story wise for the most part yes. the main quest is pretty meh but most Bethesda main quests are. i view it more as play ground with some ok but not explored ideas and fun characters. Dawgstar posted:Jon of Many A True Nerd did a great video called 'Fallout 3 Is Better Than You Think.' You could die of alcohol poisoning if you took a shot every time somebody said 'Bethestard' in the comment section however. 3 is very much a Oblivion type deal. its cool when you don't have other stuff to compare it too. there are some cool and interesting ideas but its a very surface level exploration of them compared with NV and even 4. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 22:47
|
|
|
Reminder that Gamebryo also powers the Civ series. The engine itself is old as hell but it works wonders when you utilize it properly. The majority of issues in Bethesda open world games are not caused by the engine, but by their awful coding practices that result in stuff like the game trying to render all of the ambient occlusion for downtown Boston simultaneously in Fallout 4.l when you're only looking at a small portion of it at any given time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2018 23:40
|
|
|
If I recall, part of why Bethesda hasn't changed engines in so long is because the people currently in charge of ZeniMax media are insanely tightfisted about spending money and have extremely forgiving standards of what counts as "broke" in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 00:04
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:If I recall, part of why Bethesda hasn't changed engines in so long is because the people currently in charge of ZeniMax media are insanely tightfisted about spending money and have extremely forgiving standards of what counts as "broke" in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" well clearly they can't use that excuse anymore. the game is down like 60% or so in price under a week. a game they put a gently caress ton of money behind at the very least in advertisements.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 01:04
|
|
|
It'd still be less money than it would be to retrain their development team on an engine they already 'own' like the many good engines produced by iD.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 01:24
|
|
|
DEEP STATE PLOT posted:i mean poo poo man don't their games still have remnants of code from mother fuckin morrowind in them? how goddamn long are they gonna hamstring themselves sticking to tech that's older than some of their audience at this point? it's not 2002 anymore, major games being this buggy and janky isn't ok, frankly it wasn't even ok by the time skyrim dropped and that itself was 8 years ago and it's irritating as hell that they've gotten a free pass for this long. That's not exactly a unique thing in programming though. Wasn't part of the big deal with Windows 10 that it was the first version of Windows without any legacy code lurking under the hood? And as was said last time it came up, Call of Duty still has remnants of Quake and there's still modern games being made in Source. Also from what I've gleaned, Bethesda values its content creation pipeline quite a bit. Presumably that's how they manage to stuff so much bespoke content into their games, by using a more or less stable and familiar set of tools comparable to the ones modders have been using for years right alongside them. Needing to tear all of that out and rebuild it from scratch would basically derail everything for a lengthy period of time and ironically probably introduce more bugs. Not that they shouldn't be exploring ways to overcome their tech debt, of course, but it's a little more understandable. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the bugs have nothing to do with the engine as such. I mean, literally every game with a physics engine of any kind has physics bugs. AI breakdowns, quest issues, logic errors...none of those would magically go away by changing engines because scripting errors caused by a typo or missing file or w/e are universal.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 02:23
|
|
|
They've invested a lot of money in their inhouse tools and it'd take a lot of work and money to develop an entirely new engine or get different middleware and adapt it for their use. At some point they really need to just start fresh- yeah you can gut and regut it to the point it's not the same software but at some point you really just need to start over to make a modern piece of software that can leverage newer hardware properly (i.e. being properly multithreaded).
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 02:24
|
|
|
Terrible Opinions posted:They also didn't let you uninstall the beta unless you bought the full game. So what happens if you try to delete the folder manually, does it just display a message saying "lol gently caress you pay me"
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 02:34
|
|
|
Thompsons posted:So what happens if you try to delete the folder manually, does it just display a message saying "lol gently caress you pay me" You'd clear up hard drive space, but the game would still be "installed" in the registry, with random parts left behind god knows where.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
John Murdoch posted:That's not exactly a unique thing in programming though. Wasn't part of the big deal with Windows 10 that it was the first version of Windows without any legacy code lurking under the hood? And as was said last time it came up, Call of Duty still has remnants of Quake and there's still modern games being made in Source. The problem is that Bethesda keeps trying to make the Gamebryo engine do things it simply wasn't built for. At some point it's better to just start over from scratch with the proper tools instead of trying to beat every nail, rivet, and screw with a single hammer.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 03:31
|
|
|
So there's a newcomer to the British Person Talking About Retro Games arena: Lady Decade. Her first (and currently only) video is about Golden Axe, comparing the arcade to the Mega Drive version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNsyu6nv7o4 I feel like maybe the market is a bit saturated? Not sure what that unnecessary jab at Anita Sarkeesian was about, either. Also, while searching Youtube for other videos about Golden Axe I found that this thread's very own Kim Justice did a longer, more comprehensive video about the topic a year ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkxeQbhI8ug
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 03:51
|
|
|
A new engine would at least prove whether it or Bethesda's own stunning laziness about bug checking was the problem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 03:53
|
|
|
Neddy Seagoon posted:The problem is that Bethesda keeps trying to make the Gamebryo engine do things it simply wasn't built for. At some point it's better to just start over from scratch with the proper tools instead of trying to beat every nail, rivet, and screw with a single hammer. No they don't. Gamebyro was built to be a generic engine supported by modular extensions. Nothing Bethesda has done is outside of the scope of what the engine was built for, and that's evident in the huge range of games made by any other software studios - including multiple MMOs - that do not experience the kinds of issues Bethesda not only routinely has but persistently has across their Elder Scrolls/Fallout franchises. The problem isn't the hammer or the screws. It's their instruction sheet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 03:57
|
|
|
FoldableHuman posted:You'd clear up hard drive space, but the game would still be "installed" in the registry, with random parts left behind god knows where. jesus. is that on consoles too?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
Ghostlight posted:No they don't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 05:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 17:47 |
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:
In the midst of toothache fatigue I must have missed the launch. Will watch. She's Top Hat Gaming Man's wifey and thoroughly cool (yes, the UK retro YouTube scene is an incestuous, disgraceful clique/hellscape of depravity where we all know each other and hold everybody else down unless we approve them or they marry someone else)
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2018 06:09
|
|
