Who Greenlightninged 2019 - Face God and walk backwards into Movie Hell

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Who Greenlightninged 2019 - Face God and walk backwards into Movie Hell

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WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Fart City posted:

Hard disagree.

He�s the Yellow One.

exactly. he's yellow and he beep-boops at people. meanwhile, Optimus is a batshit insane fascist conqueror who goes on a mission to kill God and tears people's faces off.

can you see the problem here?

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:35

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:41

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Guy Mann posted:

Why is the idea that a movie's title could effect its performance at the box office breaking your brain this much.

It's not. SMG being a lovely gimmick for years that people actually buy into is.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:38

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Those both sound equally awesome tbh

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:38

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Like I'm gonna be honest I think the central problem is that a movie about Bumblebee, The Shittiest Transformer, was probably going to be a hard sell from moment one

An Optimus Prime movie or a Jetfire movie or, hell, even a Megatron or Soundwave movie would have probably done a lot better even if it came out a worse movie

e: or, honestly, there might be something to the title thing. Maybe calling it something like Transformers: The Beginning or Transformers: Origins, and not using a character name in the title at all, would have smoothed it over.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:42

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

Chairman Capone posted:

There were three good things about Sin City 2:

1) The storyline with Joseph Gordon-Levitt (including a good cameo from Christopher Lloyd)
2) Eva Green
3) Powers Boothe

My favorite review of The Spirit was from my dad, who summed it up by saying, "The only way it could have been worse was if it was longer."

Four good things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojSbyYMn-Qc

This clip will never not be riotously funny to me.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:49

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Like I'm gonna be honest I think the central problem is that a movie about Bumblebee, The Shittiest Transformer, was probably going to be a hard sell from moment one

An Optimus Prime movie or a Jetfire movie or, hell, even a Megatron or Soundwave movie would have probably done a lot better even if it came out a worse movie

e: or, honestly, there might be something to the title thing. Maybe calling it something like Transformers: The Beginning or Transformers: Origins, and not using a character name in the title at all, would have smoothed it over.

The thing is, the movie's not an origin story for Transformers as much as a movie about a loner teenage girl in the 80s and a Transformer she unintentionally comes into contact with and befriends.

It's essentially The Iron Giant reimagined in the Transformers universe.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:55

Vandar: Sep 14, 2007; Isn't That Right, Chairman?

AlBorlantern Corps posted:

After five previous movies were really bad

The previous movies being bad didn�t really hurt them much. Not until The Last Knight, but even it did relatively well. Not as well as the rest, but it still did well.

Maybe the movie flopped off the name and the fact it was a Bumblebee movie, and maybe the shittiness of the rest of the film franchise finally caught up to it, but even then releasing it around the same time as Spider-Verse, Aquaman, and Mary Poppins was a stupid idea. :shrug:

They should have released it sooner, or just held off for a spring release.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 20:59

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I mean bumblebee may not be an interesting character but outside Optimus Prime he was the most recognizable part of the transformers movies.

I mean I�m no great Transformers fan but outside the big two he is literally the only other one I can name and recognize. Granted that says more about design issues with the series but whatever.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:08

Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean bumblebee may not be an interesting character but outside Optimus Prime he was the most recognizable part of the transformers movies.

I mean I�m no great Transformers fan but outside the big two he is literally the only other one I can name and recognize. Granted that says more about design issues with the series but whatever.

My guess is that you continued growing from the 6 year old you were in 1987 and replaced the names of all the others with important things, like porn

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:10

K. Waste: Feb 27, 2014; MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

You're just not in the target demographic then.

There was a light-up standee for Bumblebee in one of my local AMC theaters for months before the movie came out, and just about every time I went and saw a movie there, there were kids posing in front of it and parents taking their pictures.

Then when I saw it, it was an advanced screening like two weeks before the movie actually came out and the theater was sold out and it was mostly kids with their parents. Kids were cheering during it.

People give a poo poo about Bumblebee, it's just you don't.

Explaining that the film has a target demographic that responds to it relatively well does not resolve the problem that the film ultimately isn't performing very well. The film is not doing bad numbers because I don't give a poo poo about it. A lot of people don't give a poo poo about it, to an extent that is way more significant than your anecdote.

Like, this is not some "scheme" to try to make you believe that children don't like brightly colored robots or something. This is the exact same thing as when Solo came out and poo poo the bed, and folks were like, "Well, clearly, it was the behind-the-scenes drama." Then when someone comes along and proposes that, maybe, nobody gives a poo poo about Han Solo, these same folks can't square this away with their anecdotal perception that, "Oh, no, people really love Han Solo." But "Han Solo/Bumblebee is popular among a target demographic" is not a contradiction of "Nobody gives a poo poo about Han Solo/Bumblebee." Both things can be true. The only problem comes when you then start conflating personal taste with the largely arbitrary, transactional way in which the vast majority of people relate to going to the movies. It becomes necessary to say, like, "Bayformers/The Last Jedi really ruined people's expectations. It can't possibly be that it's just this movie that's relatively unappealing to most people, and that the quality of the film itself isn't particularly relevant."

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:16

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Previous movies receptions absolutely effect the next movie, saying it doesn�t is just insane.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:25

Pirate Jet: May 2, 2010

That�s correct, but also a movie�s reception is not decided by its Tomatometer.

Transformers managed to get away with four critically-reviled movies before they stopped being profitable.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:28

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

I can only speak from my own personal perception, but it also seemed like Bumblebee had a way weaker marketing push than other entries in the franchise.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:29

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

The trailer played before every movie I saw. So I don't know. The toys though and their own section, completely removed from the Transformers stuff. Like way past the action figure isle, and on this little end cap by itself.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:33

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

K. Waste posted:

Explaining that the film has a target demographic that responds to it relatively well does not resolve the problem that the film ultimately isn't performing very well. The film is not doing bad numbers because I don't give a poo poo about it. A lot of people don't give a poo poo about it, to an extent that is way more significant than your anecdote.

Like, this is not some "scheme" to try to make you believe that children don't like brightly colored robots or something. This is the exact same thing as when Solo came out and poo poo the bed, and folks were like, "Well, clearly, it was the behind-the-scenes drama." Then when someone comes along and proposes that, maybe, nobody gives a poo poo about Han Solo, these same folks can't square this away with their anecdotal perception that, "Oh, no, people really love Han Solo." But "Han Solo/Bumblebee is popular among a target demographic" is not a contradiction of "Nobody gives a poo poo about Han Solo/Bumblebee." Both things can be true. The only problem comes when you then start conflating personal taste with the largely arbitrary, transactional way in which the vast majority of people relate to going to the movies. It becomes necessary to say, like, "Bayformers/The Last Jedi really ruined people's expectations. It can't possibly be that it's just this movie that's relatively unappealing to most people, and that the quality of the film itself isn't particularly relevant."

I think Solo underperforming had more to do with behind the scenes drama and critical reception not being great. When it came out, I didn't hear any word of mouth saying anything more positive than "It's okay." Sure, franchise fatigue was part of it. I'm not denying that. But another Star Wars movie coming out less than a year after The Last Jedi could have done well had it actually been a good movie worth seeing. Also it got released a few weeks after Avengers: Infinity War which made like 2 billion dollars.

Bumblebee actually got critical praise, and I think not having Transformers in its title could've helped it not be associated with the Bayformers movies. It probably just came out at the same time as too many other movies, so not enough people saw it, which is a shame because it really is a better made movie than Aquaman, Mary Poppins Returns, etc.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:36

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Oh no way is it better made than Aquaman. It makes up for it's deficiencies with 80s nostalgia and is pretty good but it isn't even in Aquaman's level

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:37

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

AlBorlantern Corps posted:

Oh no way is it better made than Aquaman. It makes up for it's deficiencies with 80s nostalgia and is pretty good but it isn't even in Aquaman's level

Aquaman was expensive and was better than previous DC movies, but that's not a very high bar to clear. It was fine, I guess, but it was boring as poo poo and didn't resonate with me emotionally on any level. Bumblebee, on the other hand...

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:41

Anonymous Zebra: Oct 21, 2005; Blending in like it ain't no thang

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

I think Solo underperforming had more to do with behind the scenes drama and critical reception not being great. When it came out, I didn't hear any word of mouth saying anything more positive than "It's okay." Sure, franchise fatigue was part of it. I'm not denying that. But another Star Wars movie coming out less than a year after The Last Jedi could have done well had it actually been a good movie worth seeing. Also it got released a few weeks after Avengers: Infinity War which made like 2 billion dollars.

Nobody except the biggest movie nerds even knew about the behind-the-scenes Solo drama. Honest to God, I once had a conversation with a group of friends where they were impressed that I knew who the director of the movie was and we were talking about loving Wolf of Wall Street. Nobody knows who directed 22 Jump Street or that those directors left Solo halfway through. Normal moviegoers just don't pay that much attention to the movie news.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:45

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

marshmallow creep posted:

My wife tells me that Bumblebee is literally a girl and her horse movie, but with a transformer.

This is a very good description, though doesn't help that the guy version of this is a boy and his dog movie, which easily translated to a boy and his "magic space/robot/talking/ghost dog/thing" movies, yet they never make a girl and her "magic space/robot/talking/ghost dog/thing" movies. There's also an almost 100% change the magic thing from space will also be a boy (or if it is a girl it won't be able to speak.) I only know of a few exceptions with girl stars or lady-voiced things.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 21:46

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Anonymous Zebra posted:

Nobody except the biggest movie nerds even knew about the behind-the-scenes Solo drama. Honest to God, I once had a conversation with a group of friends where they were impressed that I knew who the director of the movie was and we were talking about loving Wolf of Wall Street. Nobody knows who directed 22 Jump Street or that those directors left Solo halfway through. Normal moviegoers just don't pay that much attention to the movie news.

I know not everyone pays attention, but I remember seeing bigger publications and YouTube channels with millions of subscribers reporting on the behind the scenes drama with Solo. It may not have been on every news outlet, but it wasn't exactly completely unknown either.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:05

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

It's like the John Carter situation: people would probably go to see or at least be curious about a movie called The Warlord of Mars or even John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Change it to John Carter of Mars and it's a bit ropier. But calling your big-budget science-fiction action movie "John Carter" isn't going to get anyone excited.

"John Carter" sounds like an adaptation of a John Grisham novel from 1999 starring Richard Gere and Gene Hackman.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:07

SomeJazzyRat: Nov 2, 2012; Hmmm...

I mostly skimmed the Bumblebee derail, so sorry if this came up. But I think a lot of Bumblebee's underperformance has to do with the fact that it is tied to the Michael Bay Transformers films. It became evident with the last one that the series has become a toxic brand. Even with this soft reboot, the number one thing people know about the film is that it's a spinoff of the Michael Bay Transformers films.

I know that the film is good and fun. But even as someone who has all the knowledge of how worthwhile it is, I don't want to emotionally invest in the brand of Michael Bay Transformers. And I can't help but think that alone is a huge stumbling block for a lot of people.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:12

Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

Wheat Loaf posted:

It's like the John Carter situation: people would probably go to see or at least be curious about a movie called The Warlord of Mars or even John Carter, Warlord of Mars. Change it to John Carter of Mars and it's a bit ropier. But calling your big-budget science-fiction action movie "John Carter" isn't going to get anyone excited.

"John Carter" sounds like an adaptation of a John Grisham novel from 1999 starring Richard Gere and Gene Hackman.

But sequels man, they need cohesive titles

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:13

GrandpaPants: Feb 13, 2006; Free to roam the heavens in man's noble quest to investigate the weirdness of the universe!

Wheat Loaf posted:

But calling your big-budget science-fiction action movie "John Carter" isn't going to get anyone excited.

I wouldn't have seen John Wick if I didn't randomly see the club shootout scene on YouTube.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:14

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

John Carter of Mars Needs Moms

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:19

Iron Crowned: May 6, 2003; by Hand Knit

AlBorlantern Corps posted:

John Carter of Mars Needs Moms

Mars needs MILFS

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:20

John Wick of Dogs: Mar 4, 2017; A real hellraiser

Iron Crowned posted:

Mars needs MILFS

Mom's I'd Like to Fly to Saturn

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:21

Tart Kitty: Dec 17, 2016; Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

One ticket to Big Momma�s Planet, please

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:22

Wheat Loaf: Feb 13, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Is Bumblebee out in China yet? It seems like the sort of thing that could do very well in China.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:29

Red Bones: Aug 9, 2012; "I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."

I'm in my mid-20s and the transformers shows that were on TV when I was a kid in the late 90s and early 2000s never had Bumblebee in it, as far as I can remember. But I think the newer transformers cartoons that came out after the first Michael Bay transformers film do have Bumblebee in them. I can only speak from personal experience, but there might be a big generational gap where the people who grew up with the 80s cartoon and the kids who grew up with the post-2007 cartoons do have a big attachment to the character, but people between those two demographics don't really recognise him.

I had to google it to check and I did correctly remember that the Bumblebee equivalent from the transformers cartoons I watched as a kid was called "Hot Shot", so maybe if they'd called that guy bumblebee instead I would have gone to see the movie. Clearly the name is still kicking around in some dusty corner of my head.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 22:53

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

Iron Crowned posted:

Mars needs MILFS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOTTOsQuvc

# ? Jan 4, 2019 23:35

TheKingslayer: Sep 3, 2008

In the new movie does Bumblebee have a vehicle form other than a crummy looking VW bug? Because I can't honestly see kids not being thrilled about that design.

# ? Jan 4, 2019 23:58

Rageaholic: May 31, 2005; Old Town Road to EGOT

TheKingslayer posted:

In the new movie does Bumblebee have a vehicle form other than a crummy looking VW bug? Because I can't honestly see kids not being thrilled about that design.

At the very end, yes. But for most of the movie, that's the form he takes because he's in hiding and not trying to stand out by taking the form of a flashier vehicle.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:06

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Needs to be some beige Toyota Camry or something.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:12

Urdnot Fire: Feb 13, 2012

Colostomy Bag posted:

Needs to be some beige Toyota Camry or something.

Transformers changing colors? Now that�s just silly.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:16

Chairman Capone: Dec 17, 2008

Neo Rasa posted:

I was going to make this exact same post. I couldn't believe how bad the movie was and on top of that, how bad it look compared to the first one.

EXCEPT for Joseph Gordon-Levitt's story, there's one part where he gets knocked out and wakes up in a car, and I love how he's knocked out and his figure being knocked out spins and segues into a spinning hubcap, like the movie just visually clicked and was really cool for that one moment.

I wonder if there'll ever be another Sin City movie attempt like now that Into the Spider-Verse is awesome it will probably make for a few studios attempting a less traditional look for their movie? I mean I guess that sounds weird since Sin City 2 is so blah looking in comparison to the original but the original really does look great.

It's crazy how much Sin City 2 looks like a direct to video movie that came out even before Sin City 1.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:17

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

Danny DeVito will be in the new Jumanji

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/danny-devito-dwayne-johnson-jumanji-sequel-1203099379/

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:27

The MSJ: May 17, 2010

TheKingslayer posted:

In the new movie does Bumblebee have a vehicle form other than a crummy looking VW bug? Because I can't honestly see kids not being thrilled about that design.

He had 4, actually. A Cybertron vehicle, a Willis jeep (a tribute to Bumblebee replacing Hound as the kid-appeal character in the original cartoon), the 1960s VW Beetle form we see for most of the movie, and the Camaro at the end.

Only the VW form has toys so far. The Camaro robot form at the end is slightly different from the one he had at the start of the 2007 movie.

Wheat Loaf posted:

Is Bumblebee out in China yet? It seems like the sort of thing that could do very well in China.

It's out this month. But it could run into the problem of Aquaman's popularity there. That movie had its run extended to the second day of Chinese New Year in February, something rare in China for a foreign movie.

SomeJazzyRat posted:

I mostly skimmed the Bumblebee derail, so sorry if this came up. But I think a lot of Bumblebee's underperformance has to do with the fact that it is tied to the Michael Bay Transformers films. It became evident with the last one that the series has become a toxic brand. Even with this soft reboot, the number one thing people know about the film is that it's a spinoff of the Michael Bay Transformers films.

I know that the film is good and fun. But even as someone who has all the knowledge of how worthwhile it is, I don't want to emotionally invest in the brand of Michael Bay Transformers. And I can't help but think that alone is a huge stumbling block for a lot of people.

It could also be that Transformers movies actually appeals to a lot of people still, and Bumblebee's failure is that it tries to disassociate itself from the other movies. This includes not having "Transformers" in the title.

If people are bored of the Bay movies, saying that the movie is better by marketing its similarity to a cartoon most of the target audience has never seen is not going to help either.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:33

Guy Mann: Mar 28, 2016; by Lowtax

"Joseph Gordon-Levitt in Sin City" is like the most "things from the late-00s we thought were going to rule the next decade of film but then didn't" sentence. It's like the For Sale: Baby Shoes, Never Worn of the world of film in Bush's second term.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:46

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 19:41

Antifa Poltergeist: Jun 3, 2004; "We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"

Bumblebee leans a little bit on the 80's nostalgia,I'm not sure that is culturally relevant in China. They should have made a screwball comedy with starscream and the myriad ways he fails Megatron.

# ? Jan 5, 2019 00:53

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Who Greenlightninged 2019 - Face God and walk backwards into Movie Hell

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