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Big Data posted:The Book of Job is written perfectly as a Greek Play/Drama. So whatever the actual origin, someone intentionally adapted it to that form. It's been years since I studied it that way in a literature class, so I can't give you the particulars, but you have the main Character Job, like Oedipus or Creon, then the Choragos and Chorus, taunting him and interacting with him to get his responses, etc. It was pretty cool to study the story that way and see how well laid out it is with an Introduction, Rising Action, Climax, Trip to the Underworld (when he is all diseased), Falling Action and Conclusion with even Deus ex Machina throughout, as God and Satan wander through. The Book of Job is a fable to teach the oppressed not to struggle against their restraints. The story of Solomon folds into it well enough with strong anti-intellectual sentiments. I'm not surprised how well traveled and leaned on those two chunks of the bible are, in the good ol' U.S. dixiecrat south.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:35
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5er posted:The Book of Job is a fable to teach the oppressed not to struggle against their restraints. The story of Solomon folds into it well enough with strong anti-intellectual sentiments. I'm not surprised how well traveled and leaned on those two chunks of the bible are, in the good ol' U.S. dixiecrat south. Eh. I would say the bigger takeaway from Job is that it explicitly denounces the (not uncommon) theology that if something bad is happening to you, it’s because of something you did to anger God. Sometimes He just needs a little extra beer money.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:38
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5er posted:The Book of Job is a fable to teach the oppressed not to struggle against their restraints. The story of Solomon folds into it well enough with strong anti-intellectual sentiments. I'm not surprised how well traveled and leaned on those two chunks of the bible are, in the good ol' U.S. dixiecrat south. Good, wise Solomon who proposes cutting babies in half, the best example of modern 'common sense'-- feigning extreme violence towards an innocent to prompt a minor response. There's surely no other way of determining whose baby it is.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:48
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jokes posted:Good, wise Solomon who proposes cutting babies in half, the best example of modern 'common sense'-- feigning extreme violence towards an innocent to prompt a minor response. There's surely no other way of determining whose baby it is. Yeah, he should have just used 23 and me idk why were the ancients so dumb 
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Jan 7, 2019 17:56
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There are a lot of ways to determine if someone just had a baby without even talking to witnesses but yeah best way would probably be to simply threaten cutting it in half.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:58
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That baby had like 80% chance of dying before adulthood anyways. Testing maternal love/familial attachment is as good as any method short of medical technologies those people lacked. Idk what's the point in applying modern moral outlooks on like, what, early Iron age slave owning society.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:02
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christmas boots posted:Eh. I would say the bigger takeaway from Job is that it explicitly denounces the (not uncommon) theology that if something bad is happening to you, it’s because of something you did to anger God. The takeaway you point out reinforces the social control goal, we're both right here. jokes posted:Good, wise Solomon who proposes cutting babies in half, the best example of modern 'common sense'-- feigning extreme violence towards an innocent to prompt a minor response. There's surely no other way of determining whose baby it is. To ground level citizens who don't worry about reconciling the contradictory postures of claiming to believe in Christian benevolence and unconditional love, *and* nuclear proliferation along with the military industrial complex to secure their exceptional way of life, if manipulating terror at deep, mammalian levels gets poo poo done with results that suit their bias, it's all good in the 'hood.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:03
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What's wrong with social control anyways? Unless you are a really hardline anarcho-primitivist, you have to admit that wide ranging social control is a vital part of civilization. It's what culture is, really, and organized religion has proven to be a drat good way to spread it.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:10
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jokes posted:There are a lot of ways to determine if someone just had a baby without even talking to witnesses but yeah best way would probably be to simply threaten cutting it in half. Yeah, but they had both just had babies and one baby died.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:27
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Colonel Cancer posted:What's wrong with social control anyways? Unless you are a really hardline anarcho-primitivist, you have to admit that wide ranging social control is a vital part of civilization. It's what culture is, really, and organized religion has proven to be a drat good way to spread it. How social control is implemented, affects its efficacy. Fear-mongering is a short-term patch that always busts, and manipulating peoples' fears and encouraging ignorance has severe problems for establishing a trustworthy justice system. That's the pattern you can pull out of history.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:31
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5er posted:How social control is implemented, affects its efficacy. Fear-mongering is a short-term patch that always busts, and manipulating peoples' fears and encouraging ignorance has severe problems for establishing a trustworthy justice system. That's the pattern you can pull out of history. I'm no bible scholar but the Solomon baby story seems to be about judicial impartiality and achieving justice thru available means and not empty fearmongering. I mean the Bible has plenty of the latter lol but not in that particular story.
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Jan 7, 2019 18:34
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I tried the Old Testament adultery test on my wife. She died, proving her guilt. Now I am being accused of murder. Can I use the Bible verses to prove my innocence? The courthouse I am going to has the Ten Commandments out front if that helps.
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Jan 7, 2019 19:19
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What ever happened to Lazarus? He got raised from the dead, smelled really bad and then????
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Jan 7, 2019 22:24
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Hot take: the Bible sucks??!!!!!!!
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Jan 8, 2019 01:07
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twit666 posted:What ever happened to Lazarus? He got raised from the dead, smelled really bad and then???? He digs a pit and just kinda hangs out in it.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:01
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I'm rather amazed at the success of the Bible considering the cast is made up of mostly unknowns.
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Jan 8, 2019 07:23
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Dubplate Fire posted:Human sacrifice was also forbidden. The whole point of the story where Abraham is told to kill his son for god and then at the end he’s like syke!!! What do you think I’m an rear end in a top hat??? It was supposed to show how progressive the new god was. Numbers 31:25-40 posted:And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast ... And divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: And levy a tribute unto the Lord ... one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the Lord. ... And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. And the booty ... was ... thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him ... of which the LORD's tribute was thirty and two persons. Heave offerings were burnt and eaten, btw. Not saying they ate the virgin girls, but if they neither burnt nor ate them, it wouldn't be a heave offering in any sense. The Bible, as it does with many topics, flip flops a lot on human sacrifice. It's almost as if it were a collection of writings by different people from different places, all written and assembled at different times. In general, though, if there are prohibitions on how you can treat a person, "person" usually specifically means a Hebrew male. This is why the defenses of Biblical slavery being different than the modern idea of it doesn't work. Yeah, the Bible does treat slavery as more of an indentured servitude, if the slave is a Hebrew male. If not, you can treat them as brutally as you wish. The Bible fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 00:53
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twit666 posted:What ever happened to Lazarus? He got raised from the dead, smelled really bad and then????
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Jan 9, 2019 01:06
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The Bible posted:Heave offerings were burnt and eaten, btw. Not saying they ate the virgin girls, but if they neither burnt nor ate them, it wouldn't be a heave offering in any sense. Jepthah also promises to offer the first thing he sees from his home as a burnt offering if God grants him victory in battle. He wins, and the first thing he sees is his daughter. Some people say that he "sacrificed his relationship" and gives her to the temple instead of an actual blood sacrifice, but that fall flat for me. Plus giving your daughter into servitude against her will is pretty hosed up anyway. But yeah, the Bible goes back and forth a lot.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:43
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The Bible posted:Heave offerings were burnt and eaten, btw. Not saying they ate the virgin girls, but if they neither burnt nor ate them, it wouldn't be a heave offering in any sense. in my translation these are called wave offerings and this was not my assumption of what that entailed
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Jan 9, 2019 01:44
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lol but seriously I posted:in my translation these are called wave offerings and this was not my assumption of what that entailed Ah, so then the girls simply became the property of the priests. That's... better. I guess.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:48
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The Bible posted:Ah, so then the girls simply became the property of the priests. i mean i don't want to pressure you but i assume of the two of us you are the one which would know
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Jan 9, 2019 01:49
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The Bible posted:Ah, so then the girls simply became the property of the priests. If given the choice between death or being a sex slave I'd choose death.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:51
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lol but seriously I posted:i mean i don't want to pressure you but i assume of the two of us you are the one which would know This stuff has been translated, edited, retranslated and reedited so many times, you can basically choose what you want it to mean simply by switching to a different translation. Who What Now posted:If given the choice between death or being a sex slave I'd choose death. Hey now, it doesn't say they were sex slaves. Those priests probably just had those girls cleaning and cooking. That's the argument my youth pastor gave me for the virgin (and explicitly ONLY virgin) girls "taken" by soldiers in war, at least. The Bible fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 01:54
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The Bible posted:This stuff has been translated, edited, retranslated and reedited so many times, you can basically choose what you want it to mean simply by switching to a different translation. haaaaaaay. God is in the details. Therefore All the translations of Number 4:6 say that god likes the color blue. https://www.biblestudytools.com/numbers/4-6-compare.html
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Jan 9, 2019 02:05
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The Bible posted:Hey now, it doesn't say they were sex slaves. That checks out. I bet they were pissed all the virgin boys were executed though, going from modern priests they'd definitely had some ED: Great AV/Name for the thread SardonicTyrant posted:According to Eastern Orthodox canon, he went east and never smiled again because of what he saw in the underworld. East, always to the East
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Jan 9, 2019 02:10
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Colonel Cancer posted:What's wrong with social control anyways? Unless you are a really hardline anarcho-primitivist, you have to admit that wide ranging social control is a vital part of civilization. It's what culture is, really, and organized religion has proven to be a drat good way to spread it. The problem with social control is the ones in control do not have your best interests in mind most of the time and the ones that DO have your interests in mind are so full of authoritarian poo poo that they're actually worse. The problem with specific RELIGIOUS social control is it gets out of check, i.e. all the old people who don't care about global warming because Revelations means we can't kill everyone, ergo there is no danger
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Jan 9, 2019 02:15
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Colonel Cancer posted:That baby had like 80% chance of dying before adulthood anyways. Testing maternal love/familial attachment is as good as any method short of medical technologies those people lacked. The funniest thing about that story is why the gently caress would the arguing other woman want half a baby? Seems like they'd both found that outcome pretty unacceptable. In fact it makes more sense the thief would cave first because of pure  factor.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:17
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:haaaaaaay. God is in the details. Therefore All the translations of Number 4:6 say that god likes the color blue. Similarly, Leviticus 18:22, ESV Translation posted:You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. It is common in Judaism to read that lesbian sex is ok because the Bible only specifically forbids men having sex with men, but never specifically forbids women having sex with women. I've also seen it explained that this verse is actually telling the priests not to seduce husbands away from wives, and isn't really a condemnation of homosexuality, but of adultery, but apparently only if they are causing the men to cheat. It would seem to have been ok to seduce the women from the men, given how specific the verse seems. Idk.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:18
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The Bible posted:Similarly, Wait, no...that is taken things super-literally! It's all 'if man lay down with another dude as with a chick it is an abomination' or whatever. Read between the lines, man.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:48
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The Bible posted:Similarly, It's actually saying you're not allowed to gently caress men in the vagina. Which is transphobic, rather than homophobic.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:53
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Who What Now posted:It's actually saying you're not allowed to gently caress men in the vagina. Which is transphobic, rather than homophobic. There is no such thing as transphobia.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:56
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Vato posted:Wait, no...that is taken things super-literally! It's all 'if man lay down with another dude as with a chick it is an abomination' or whatever. Read between the lines, man. I don't know, it isn't my argument, just one I've seen a lot. It isn't too hard to believe, though. Women weren't really seen as much more than livestock in those times, anyway. Who cares what the cows do when the men are working? As long as they provide meat and milk when necessary.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:58
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The Bible posted:I don't know, it isn't my argument, just one I've seen a lot. For someone named The Bible, you're pretty cool...kinda makes you wonder....
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Jan 9, 2019 03:00
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SardonicTyrant posted:According to Eastern Orthodox canon, he went east and never smiled again because of what he saw in the underworld. Wouldn't he have seen how great Heaven was though? Or did Jesus bring back a guy who went to Hell (oops?) The Bible posted:This stuff has been translated, edited, retranslated and reedited so many times, you can basically choose what you want it to mean simply by switching to a different translation. Yeah so which translation are you? Blazing Ownager posted:East, always to the East Unless it's a Journey to the West. Or Manifest Destiny~
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Jan 9, 2019 04:55
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The Unholy Ghost posted:Wouldn't he have seen how great Heaven was though? Or did Jesus bring back a guy who went to Hell (oops?) Hell wasn't even a thing until the New Testament. Heaven was; the Second Book of Enoch mentions seven Heavens, later changed to ten for whatever reason. Pretty much every time Jesus references Hell, it is through parable. This is one of those things modern believers decide to take literally despite having good reason not to. It was a parable. They were expressly meant as teaching tools, not literal stories, but Hell is a very useful tool for fear, so it was heavily emphasized. Various Popes have flipped back and forth on how literal it is meant to be, presumably causing Hell to blink in and out of existence every few millennia or however that is supposed to work, what with Popes being infallible. The times you see Hell mentioned in the OT, it is actually from the Hebrew word Sheol, which is the land of the dead, where everyone goes, righteous or not. You lived, died, and went to Sheol, just as everyone else did. Only a rare few, such as Elijah and Enoch, "ascended" to wherever God lived. We get "Hell" from a variety of sources, but mainly from Greek translations of "Sheol" as "Hades", which was understood to be basically the same Hades as in the Greek pantheon. Gehenna was the section where the evil are tormented. Dark, filled with flame, the damned are tortured eternally, etc.
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Jan 9, 2019 05:12
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Why are all the pictures of Jesus and Mary white they weren’t white Also thank god my family were bad Catholics and I was baptized and we didn’t go to church, did do first communion no confirmation in my mid thirties now was prime for molesting age ty mom and dad for being lovely Catholics
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Jan 9, 2019 06:38
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Do it ironically posted:Why are all the pictures of Jesus and Mary white they weren’t white I mean, come on, you really think Americans are going to worship a black guy?
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Jan 9, 2019 06:46
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They could just become mormons problem solved switch one lovely religion with another
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Jan 9, 2019 07:04
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Blazing Ownager posted:The funniest thing about that story is why the gently caress would the arguing other woman want half a baby? Seems like they'd both found that outcome pretty unacceptable. As far as most biblical parables go, this one's pretty good.
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Jan 9, 2019 09:32
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