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Shady Amish Terror posted:Development has always been slow for Transcendence, but I'm a little surprised to see the mod scene seems to be falling off for the current version? I could have sworn I've seen a mod with this functionality before. As long as cash cards are (still?) part of the base game, you could always just stick those into the loot tables. For every single entity. Manually. George (the main Transcendence dev) keeps breaking the modding API, so mods tend to fall out-of-date or be a bit unreliable. But yeah, in principle all that's needed here is to make it so enemies drop lots of cash cards and stations refuse to buy anything. Redeeming cash cards en masse would be a pain with the current UI though. And what I really want is not just not needing to haul vendor trash back to sell, but also not being able to buy equipment upgrades (turning stations into basically glorified dry docks and quest dispensaries) and instead having to make do with what I find. But that would require changing the game to make it more likely to generate usable loot (the vast majority of dropped items are vendor trash or equipment that's too damaged to be usable), which I think means changes to the binary. I'm pretty sure that mods can't do it, anyway. quote:I will say that conduct definitely pushes the game from 'casual lootrun simulator' into a more standard roguelike problem space, especially when you're talking about dropping the shield. I think I'm way too used to the yacht (and actual super freighters, thanks to mods) to imagine surviving the outer systems when virtually any Ares weapon would one-shot me. I completed my run yesterday evening, and yeah I had to avoid most of the Ares stations. High-level Ares stations are surrounded by positron turrets as well as having plenty of Chasm-class ships, who have positron cannons. And nothing in the game effectively resists positron damage, except for a shield that's had a yellow etherium crystal used on it, and that doesn't last forever. It's not one-shot territory but I was uncomfortably reliant on the "Desperate Escape" Domina power (an auto-shield that kicks in when you would normally die, but has like a 10-minute cooldown). Fortunately, I was able to piece together my "ascension kit" (4x Light Iocrym armor for disintegration resistance; advanced tritium cannon +190% for main offense; Ares Launcher for shits 'n giggles) without needing to deal with the Ares too much. It helps that the second-to-last system had like a dozen friendly stations with plenty of goods for sale. It also helps that if you're having trouble with a system, you can just...skip it, and go on to the next one. You need to be strong enough to destroy the boss at the end of Heretic System, but that's literally the only mandatory check on your power level in the entire game. Even that can be cheesed with one of the sidequest rewards, which gives you a gem that drops everything (including yourself) to critical HP when used. One problem with the conduct: the Corporate Trading Post stations will let you order specific named items, sort of a wish-for-object ability except you have to pay for it and you can't order military-tier gear. That's how I got the +190% enchant on my tritium cannon: you can get 3 tritium injectors (stacking +10% boost) per trading post, or a lithium booster secondary device that gives a non-stacking +50%. However, it also turns out they'll let you order 40 heavy armor repair kits per station, each one of which is a full HP restore for most armor types. Most stations, if they have repair items at all, only have 1-2 and they're not as strong. So I had to adjust my conduct mid-flight to ban ordering repair kits. 
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Jan 22, 2019 18:21
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everything about the soldak games seems really up my alley but diablo combat is just so boring to me
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Jan 22, 2019 18:32
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DisDisDis posted:everything about the soldak games seems really up my alley but diablo combat is just so boring to me
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Jan 22, 2019 18:57
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I completed my run yesterday evening, and yeah I had to avoid most of the Ares stations. Good to hear you got it! A question; you make it sound like Chasm-class encounters are somewhat avoidable if you don't want to fight them. Is the game now less reliant on spawning enemies from the gates every (x) seconds who are already aggro on you, have the intensity of those spawns been turned down, or is the Wulfen actually fast enough with a decent engine to avoid the mid-weight Ares ships? E: Or did I misread and you needed to use station buddies for that kind of fight?
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Jan 22, 2019 19:12
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Dungeonmans question: What is the equipment slot on the bottom right for?
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Jan 22, 2019 19:47
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Good to hear you got it! A question; you make it sound like Chasm-class encounters are somewhat avoidable if you don't want to fight them. Is the game now less reliant on spawning enemies from the gates every (x) seconds who are already aggro on you, have the intensity of those spawns been turned down, or is the Wulfen actually fast enough with a decent engine to avoid the mid-weight Ares ships? E: Or did I misread and you needed to use station buddies for that kind of fight? Random spawns are very rare in Transcendence and almost never automatically aggro'd on you. What I've seen in terms of opposition, ranked by commonality:
As for avoiding encounters, the Wolfen without a drive upgrade is marginally faster than most late-game enemies, but you can still spend a lot of time getting shot at if you try to flee an encounter. You probably don't want to spend one of your limited non-weapon device slots on a drive though, considering it badly needs a cargo hold expansion and that leaves you with one remaining slot. One of the big advantages of playing without a shield is that you get a third non-weapon device option, so I could have a cargo hold and two weapon enhancers.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:[*]Random attackers out of nowhere. I've occasionally had low-level ships just up and attack me with no noticeable provocation. I don't think I've seen it with anything more powerful than Charon pirates though.[/list] Cool, thanks for the info. I played around with much older versions periodically over the years; it actually sounds like virtually nothing has changed about the enemy composition/mechanics in...over ten years, at this point? The only thing that sounded different was the relative lack of random spawns. In most older versions, particularly prior to the release builds, various systems would have random(ish) spawns that would be aggro on you from any arbitrary distance as soon as they popped out of the gate. This wouldn't occur in all systems, but it was an especially common feature in the outer systems and was particularly obnoxious in Ares space where spawns might occur as frequently as every couple of minutes and would consist of fighters with or without a Chasm or Thunderbolt(? Might not be the right names, the wide missile-ship/bomber and the medium fighter with the obnoxious positron weapon) escorting them; it was not especially unusual to learn about the location of your next gate from having to fight through the enemies spawning out of it when you're near or just past Point Juno. It also tended to make the Charon Fortress quest prior to St. Kat's incredibly difficult with the equipment you'd tend to have at that point, because not only would the pirate stations constantly replenish their fighters, but you would also have to deal with fairly aggressive pirate spawns on a regular cycle. Because systems with spawns would fire the spawn event on a regular interval, it was a constant, pernicious threat in any system that had it, and the timers were exceedingly short for Sung fighter squadrons and Ares fighter squadrons, two of the most difficult-to-mitigate post-St-Kat's threats. E: A legitimate farming strategy in Sung space was to find a friendly station close enough to the sun and a planet that you could park on the planet with a solar panel and your shield off and leave your game running for twenty minutes to come back to dozens of Sung fighter wrecks. I suspect the ubiquity of this strat and the tedium of fighting through constant waves of chafe in some systems would be why this was removed or toned down. Shady Amish Terror fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 22:12
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:Dungeonmans question: What is the equipment slot on the bottom right for? There were belts at some point during early access, and for some reason they couldn't take out the empty slot without messing stuff up.
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Jan 22, 2019 23:16
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Zereth posted:The combat in them is pretty clunky and boring even if you DO like diablo style combat Yeah this is what eventually wore me out on Dins Whatever, ARPGs wear themselves out on me. There seem to be some options that might mitigate this, but by and large I built my characters to have room clearing abilities, which removed a good core chunk of the game. I expect something similar will happen here in about 10-20 hours’ time, but for now it’s bonkers entertainment. doctorfrog fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 22, 2019 23:29
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Cool, thanks for the info. I played around with much older versions periodically over the years; it actually sounds like virtually nothing has changed about the enemy composition/mechanics in...over ten years, at this point? But yeah, the Ares are still broadly similar to how they used to be, there's still the Charon pirates and the Black Market and so on. A bunch of content that got made ages ago and isn't badly out-of-whack, so George spends his time on other things. One thing I do appreciate is that George has given some attention to the more degenerate strategies like the solar panel one you mentioned. Solar panels now no longer create fuel; instead they provide some base power depending on the panel and how close you are to the sun. So while you might be able to drop your fuel consumption to 0, you can't automatically steady-state (require no input fuel) just because you have a panel or some solar armor. George also fixed the issue where stations would offer steadily decreasing values for goods as you sold more to the station (representing decreased interest), but they wouldn't do that if you sold a big pile of goods to them all at once, so your best cash returns were gotten by assembling as large a pile of goods as possible and then bulk-selling them. Now stations will just refuse to carry more than X amount of goods in stock at a time, but the amount they pay for the good depends only on what kind of station they are (e.g. hotels like luxgoods and food).
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Jan 23, 2019 00:10
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doctorfrog posted:Yeah this is what eventually wore me out on Dins Whatever, ARPGs wear themselves out on me. There seem to be some options that might mitigate this, but by and large I built my characters to have room clearing abilities, which removed a good core chunk of the game. I expect something similar will happen here in about 10-20 hours’ time, but for now it’s bonkers entertainment. This is somewhat exacerbated, I think, by the structure of all the Soldak games; there's no real storyline to play through, instead you finish a world and then it asks you for the generation parameters for the next world, and so on until you either hit the level cap or get bored. And the latter is almost guaranteed to happen first. They're fun until then, though. I got a lot of hours out of Drox Operative in particular.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:54
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I finally completed a run of In Celebration of Violence. Was about to start a loop in NG+ but I discovered a ridiculously hard enemy on the "home" map and I got destroyed despite all my equipment and stats. Unlocked 4 more classes on that run tho
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Jan 23, 2019 03:28
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AttackBacon posted:Thanks for the response. As I said, I'm a big fan of the game you've created, the SNES-era JRPG vibe is just spot on and the game itself is one of best traditional roguelikes I've played in a long time. When you say bins, do you mean separate buttons/filters? Or like blocks of items in the list? Or Shiren-style literal actual bins (bags) with sub-items 
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Jan 23, 2019 03:58
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Just simply sorting by type of restorative (health, stamina, energy) would go a long, long way towards making the inventory easy to process in Tangledeep.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:03
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zirconmusic posted:When you say bins, do you mean separate buttons/filters? Or like blocks of items in the list? Or Shiren-style literal actual bins (bags) with sub-items What I meant by that was the individual filter buttons (ie: View All, Recovery, Self Buff, etc), I was referring to the resultant list (after clicking on a filter) as a "bin". Having some additional sorting within those filtered lists would be really helpful, although I get that's where the UI stuff starts to break down (finding screen real estate for that in addition to the existing sorting categories etc). That being said, sub-bags within your larger inventory would be a way to address the problem since it empowers the player to sort things how they want. You'd need to give us a way to name the bags and ideally open a given bag directly from the main screen (via a hotkey on PC or through the quickbar) though. And I'd imagine getting stuff into and out of bags with a controller could be a stumbling block. AttackBacon fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 05:09
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zirconmusic posted:When you say bins, do you mean separate buttons/filters? Or like blocks of items in the list? Or Shiren-style literal actual bins (bags) with sub-items How about a separate hotbar for food to differentiate vs skills? If you're feeling cheeky you could even call it a menu.
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Jan 23, 2019 05:23
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Hm, now I'm wondering -- can anyone describe some games they've played that give you a lot of scope in terms of how you can build your character while still having a clean UI for accessing abilities? Dungeonmans and Dredmor both have the same problem.  buckle upThink about the books you or your friends own for tabletop RPGs. Two, three, four hundred pages, sometimes more. Huge lists of spells, items, feats, classes, etc -- and then there's a whole 'nother book for Game Mastering, and one full of Monsters. It's ridiculous, but they try to organize all of it in a way that makes sense. Dizzying at first, but you learn more as you read them, and while most of us don't memorize them chapter-and-verse, you get a sense for where things are quickly. Bookmarks help. Post it notes, the IRL method for Mark as Favorite. Eventually, when you have a need -- an obscure rule, a monster stat, certain feat, etc -- you know where to look even if you don't know *exactly* where it is. It's all sorted in your head the way you would like. The best RPG UI would be that one. Always opens to exactly the menu you need, based on your current game situation and your previous preferences. In a decade, effective and mobile-optimized code for that will be on the Asset Store. Big complicated games are information dense, and have lots of stuff. Having one specific part of the UI experience that doesn't live up to expectations is a paper cut, sure seems like no big deal but man what a pain. Quick access to the most important things is vital, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Zircon is always poking at established Tangledeep systems and gameplay, there are no sacred cows, so maybe some reasonable way to implement some even faster acting food delivery menu could happen. Sorting by health/stamina/mana is not a bad idea, but then you get "I always have to scroll down to use my mana potions, why can't I sort by mana first" so I guess that button rotates what goes on top every time you press it. Ah wait it can't really do that because the visual style for sort buttons don't support something you can press repeatedly. Regardless, the idea has merit. The radial menu from the Switch could make it to PC, and maybe be modified. Right now on the controller you can jump to the food menu, maybe instead it could open a third ring that has 8 items, and you point at the food you want then eat it. Not unreasonable, would work with mouse, kb-10key, and controller. Implementation is not rocket surgery but it would be quite involved, as all UI stuff is. Another UI page, somewhere, for assigning food to the wheel. A tutorial pop-up that explains how it all works, and all these new buttons and words translated into four other languages. A third hotbar that's consumables only, meaning you can't put them on your main two bars... which is kinda weird for players with < 16 abilities. So maybe the item UI shows three bars rotating on the left, while the ability menu only shows two? Less to translate that way. Push button -> see 8 favorite foods would certainly be nice. I'm really jealous of MMOs. They have character complexity around the degree of the more complex roguelikes, but they have tens of thousands of fans making wikis and UI mods. These aren't excuses, these are obstacles that Zircon and I are looking for feasible ways to defeat. The suggestions in this thread are good ones, it's nice to get a take on these problems from other veteran RL players. Dmans has 40 hotbar slots now, up from 40 -- there were always 40, you could only see 10 at a time. Why? Because that made for a cleaner UI. Now you have the option to draw two, three, or gently caress it four rows all at once. Two days after posting that, I'm getting bug reports in the Discord from people who have 40 hotbar slots visible but feel like the screen real estate is cluttered because the item cards collide with the last row. In the AAA world, gameplay systems that can't be represented by dead simple UI get cut, regardless of their gameplay value. Horizon Zero Dawn has like five different biomes and all these varied looking trees and plants... but every branch is Ridge Wood, every plant is the same healing or resistance leaf. I'm guessing as to why, but it is an educated guess. Personal experience at AAA shops involved discussions like "Well what if the weapon/ability did this ____ " and someone's always asking "How do we represent that in the existing UI", because sometimes even proposing a change to that stuff is the casus belli that leads to chairs being thrown at 11pm on a Saturday night. Under those rules, Cooking, Monster Ranching, and the Food Cart would have been cut from Tangledeep months before ship. Good thing that didn't happen.
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Jan 23, 2019 12:17
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doctorfrog posted:Yeah this is what eventually wore me out on Dins Whatever, ARPGs wear themselves out on me. There seem to be some options that might mitigate this, but by and large I built my characters to have room clearing abilities, which removed a good core chunk of the game. I expect something similar will happen here in about 10-20 hours’ time, but for now it’s bonkers entertainment.
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Jan 23, 2019 13:11
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Zereth posted:I can't get into them in the first place. I've tried Din's Curse and Drox Operative and the fighting is just so boring. For some reason, the Soldak combat really appeals. Din's Legacy can get quite frenetic, which leads to me making stupid mistakes, but it's still fun. I've bought the games in EA since Drox, and only check in once in a while until release. Just reading these posts led to me going and starting a new character.
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Jan 23, 2019 15:57
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madjackmcmad posted:
Yeah, that all tracks with what I suspected, viz: "poo poo's complicated, yo". Which is a big part of why I was wondering about games that have solved the problem, because there could be lessons to learn from them. But it sounds like you're saying that "solved" for one game is not solved for others, because each game has different needs and priorities. So while in one game it might be super-important to have easy access to all 20 of your active skills, in another you're fully expected to skate by with only 3-4 actives and what you really need is easy access to a wide variety of consumables. Dungeonmans of course is in the awkward position of having both a lot of actives and a lot of consumables, most of which are resistant to being categorized. But it's neat to think about an AI that auto-suggests the things it thinks you're most likely to want, kind of Clippy for your inventory. Low on health? Here's all your healing potions and emergency escapes. Just detected a boss? Here's your rare/more powerful buffing items. Just took a big fire hit? Here's your fire resistance potion. But I suspect there's a fine line to walk between helping the player navigate their inventory and playing the game for them.
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Jan 23, 2019 16:28
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AttackBacon posted:What I meant by that was the individual filter buttons (ie: View All, Recovery, Self Buff, etc), I was referring to the resultant list (after clicking on a filter) as a "bin". Having some additional sorting within those filtered lists would be really helpful, although I get that's where the UI stuff starts to break down (finding screen real estate for that in addition to the existing sorting categories etc). In keybinds you have two options for accessing consumables. The default is the 'consumable bag', which when you open it just shows you whatever your last filter was, alongside favorites if enabled. The 'snack bag' option opens the consumables menu with the Recovery filter always set. So basically what I do is I use the 'snack bag' menu and just quickly hit the Right arrow and enter to swap to View All. I favorite stuff in that menu and I set my default consumable bag to always have favorites enabled. So now my 'consumables' bag is really a favorites bag as long as I maintain it, which I do by treating the snack bag as the real consumables bag by hitting right->enter everytime I open that menu. The other downsides is if you run out of the item, the favorite is dropped and you have to re-tag it. You'll have to reset the favorites filter anytime you resume the game too. In my mind all I really want is a third bag keybind for the bag that has Favorites enabled and whatever the last filter was, and for favorites to not drop when the item is completely consumed although I understand why that feature might involve extra bookkeeping.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:03
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I somehow hadn’t heard of In Celebration of Violence until it came up in the thread recently, and I wanted to poke in and say this game is dope. It’s wacky, cute, and challenging. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I have a deathly +4 spear and I just killed a kronenburg flesh monster.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:11
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:But it's neat to think about an AI that auto-suggests the things it thinks you're most likely to want, kind of Clippy for your inventory. Low on health? Here's all your healing potions and emergency escapes. Just detected a boss? Here's your rare/more powerful buffing items. Just took a big fire hit? Here's your fire resistance potion. But I suspect there's a fine line to walk between helping the player navigate their inventory and playing the game for them. Really brings up the question of the value of YASD. Is it valuable to allow players to die with useful items in their bags? What happens if we make gameplay systems that work to prevent that? Games with a post death "hey did you think about this" screen are just one step away from providing that information during the game.
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Jan 23, 2019 19:33
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madjackmcmad posted:Really brings up the question of the value of YASD. Is it valuable to allow players to die with useful items in their bags? What happens if we make gameplay systems that work to prevent that? Games with a post death "hey did you think about this" screen are just one step away from providing that information during the game. I was gonna say that my kneejerk reaction to that is "gently caress you, if I'm gonna die I'm gonna die on my terms" but honestly when I'm in the moment, having the game have a button I could easily click on to use my biggest heal or whatever sounds pretty handy. ...in fact, a button that's always available that uses your most efficient heal (in terms of least wasted healing) sounds pretty handy in general. You could make it start pulsing red or whatever when the player is low on health.
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Jan 23, 2019 19:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was gonna say that my kneejerk reaction to that is "gently caress you, if I'm gonna die I'm gonna die on my terms" but honestly when I'm in the moment, having the game have a button I could easily click on to use my biggest heal or whatever sounds pretty handy. Dungeonmans and Tangledeep make the whole screen pulse red and it doesn't help 
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Jan 23, 2019 19:50
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I like having assistance systems like that as part of the gameplay you can opt into. For example, I love bullet hell games but I am terrible about using my screen-clearing bombs, so in Monolith I always always ALWAYS take the perk that uses your bombs automatically when you get hit. That becomes a gameplay choice for me, where I value that perk higher than someone that's really good at using bombs, but we both feel like we're making the best choices for our play style. I could easily see people resisting "assist modes" as defeating the spirit of the game, especially with roguelikes, but if it's something you can choose as an upgrade, all of a sudden it becomes a build question rather than a design one. Personally I'm always interested in how these things are framed in games, because I appreciate immersion and seeing as few seams between the setting and gameplay as possible. A clunky assist button in something like Dungeonmans would stick out to me, but in a party-based roguelike or starship command roguelike, you could frame it as issuing orders to your team or crew to handle things themselves. That can also lead to deeper systems, like characters having stats representing how "intelligently" they will use your available resources for you, which again becomes a build choice between players who want to micro everything themselves and people who want a team that can manage the details for them.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:04
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madjackmcmad posted:Really brings up the question of the value of YASD. Is it valuable to allow players to die with useful items in their bags? What happens if we make gameplay systems that work to prevent that? Games with a post death "hey did you think about this" screen are just one step away from providing that information during the game. Yes, absolutely it's valuable. If you give the player a tool it should be their responsibility to figure out when and how to use it, otherwise why bother including it at all? No point in making the game more complicated without making it deeper. e: Similarly, dying and starting over is part of the learning process. It's not necessary to try and cram all the information the player needs into a single playthrough in a roguelike the way it is in e.g. a traditional RPG, because they're going to be playing lots of runs anyways. Not to say you don't teach or have tutorials at all, but the urgency isn't the same. (And the YASD screen is, in fact, a form of teaching!) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 20:16
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madjackmcmad posted:
In Tangledeep in particular a third quickbar instead of two makes totally sense. Why? Because given the average length of a game, a player takes 1.5 jobs, I would say, that's 8 of his full job + 2-4 extra abilities of the second job. Then you have 2 more abilities of a single weapon mastery, and maybe you have the perk for the free 1 square jump, or an item that gives another ability, and in total you have already the two bars totally full. So a third one for consumables would ideal.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:17
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In fact, I'd go even further. If your game has two abilities that serve the same function but one of them's mathematically superior to the other to the point where selecting which one to use be could automated, and nothing of value would be lost by automating it -- then maybe you don't need to have both of those abilities. (Or maybe they should be given rider effects whose value is more subjective, so that it's worth the player's time to decide which one to use and which one to save.) e: For example, in ToME, regeneration infusions cost a turn to use, heal for a large amount over a long period of time, and trigger certain abilities keyed to interact with regeneration; healing infusions are instantaneous, heal a small amount, and also remove certain status effects; shield runes can be used by characters who can't use infusions, and create temporary health rather than healing; heroism infusions boost your stats by a large amount and allow you to survive at 0 or less HP, up to a certain threshold, and if they wear off while you're in the negatives they bring you back up to 0 when they expire. All of these have circumstantial bonuses that don't reduce directly to a "sort by efficiency" button, which is good; it makes healing and damage mitigation a simple but engaging minigame that contributes to the overall tactical challenge. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 20:36
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madjackmcmad posted:Dungeonmans and Tangledeep make the whole screen pulse red and it doesn't help How about a freeze frame near the moment of death, with a voiceover by Waylon Jennings, "Mmm those Duke boys shoulda used one a them potions."
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Jan 23, 2019 20:50
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Here is another approach you could consider for tangledeep. Add in a potion making system. In doing so, you could separate out raw healing from long term buffs from cooking, and make clearer categories for where to find the sort of effect the player is looking for. So a cooked meal would last a game day (or longer if balance suggested it) and give a buff, with your wide variety of options. You could tie in a low amount of regen to this, maybe capped to say 50% of total values so there is still value in other sources giving hp/stam/energy. Then you'd have potions (or you could call them tinctures or something) that are your quick restoration effects. +HP over X turns, or a lesser amount in 1 turn. Big effect short duration food effects could fit in here. Retool offensive potions as grenades/scrolls/something to differentiate them from healing effects. You'd also have the UI and system set up to make more, allowing the player to choose to invest resources towards these. madjackmcmad posted:Dungeonmans and Tangledeep make the whole screen pulse red and it doesn't help Usually YASD in these cases is caused (in my experience) from rate of actions. Like the default setting should require them to hit a non-standard key or click to clear the alert, because I'll have taken X number of actions since the alert state fired before my lizard brain realizes what the flashing red means. At that point I'll be in too deep and not manage to recover.
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Jan 23, 2019 20:54
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In some games I've seen an "undo" button that I've found does a lot to solve the problems of doing dumb things because you're zoning out, or pressing left too many times in a row. It makes death sort of a minigame, where you can back up and try different strategies to get out of whatever situation you're in. It doesn't work as well with unidentified items, since you can scum that pretty easily. Maybe make it an expendable resource, so if you want to use it to identify all your potions or whatever that's a (probably bad) strategic decision.
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Jan 23, 2019 21:16
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Low Health Solution- Constant Zelda style beeping
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Jan 23, 2019 22:18
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Jester Mcgee posted:I somehow hadn’t heard of In Celebration of Violence until it came up in the thread recently, and I wanted to poke in and say this game is dope. It’s wacky, cute, and challenging. I have no idea what I’m doing, but I have a deathly +4 spear and I just killed a kronenburg flesh monster. It's great. I think that gaming the economy is the key to success.
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Jan 23, 2019 22:46
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madjackmcmad posted:Really brings up the question of the value of YASD. Is it valuable to allow players to die with useful items in their bags? What happens if we make gameplay systems that work to prevent that? Games with a post death "hey did you think about this" screen are just one step away from providing that information during the game. Eventually, if you develop the game along these lines, you end up with a game that genuinely plays itself. Let's say you take DCSS, which has Auto-Explore and Auto-Melee already. Let's start there, and then let's add "automatically use healing potions when low hp", "automatically use buff spells/potions efficiently when engaging powerful enemies", "automatically use escape scrolls when overwhelmed", and "automatically flee to nearest stairs when overwhelmed and lacking other escapes". Theoretically you could write processes for all of these that would roughly approximate the reactions of an experienced player. Once you've done this, you've reached a point where anyone except the best players would be better off just letting the game play itself, and any new player that comes in will never be able to develop the skill to beat the auto-play because using it doesn't actually teach you anything. You have thus successfully removed the gameplay from your game.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:13
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Man watching Yulgash nearly beat ADOM 2 and doing all these absolutely insane speedrun strats from ADOM 1 sub-hour is something else
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Jan 24, 2019 00:17
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cock hero flux posted:Eventually, if you develop the game along these lines, you end up with a game that genuinely plays itself. This is a pretty lovely slippery slope argument. By that logic there should be *no* aids to the player at all, and since we've already given some we might as well finish the slide down.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:38
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:In some games I've seen an "undo" button that I've found does a lot to solve the problems of doing dumb things because you're zoning out, or pressing left too many times in a row. It makes death sort of a minigame, where you can back up and try different strategies to get out of whatever situation you're in. It doesn't work as well with unidentified items, since you can scum that pretty easily. Maybe make it an expendable resource, so if you want to use it to identify all your potions or whatever that's a (probably bad) strategic decision. That would actually be really cool. I'd play it.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:46
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cock hero flux posted:Eventually, if you develop the game along these lines, you end up with a game that genuinely plays itself. This actually really intrigues me, are there actually any games out there that autoplay like this and the challenge is to build a hero and see how far they get? I get a kick out of 'set them up and watch them go' style games. The early settlers titles were kind of like this.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:47
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Stark Fist posted:It's great. I think that gaming the economy is the key to success. If you (or anybody) have some tips I’d love to hear them. This game is a blast to play, and I managed to kill Veil, but I have absolutely no clue what’s going on.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:50
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