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Are there any good threads for really old cars? A friend of mine has been in possession of a family-owned Model A for a while and has recently been tasked with getting it roadworthy again. As the "car guy" friend I've been pretty much automatically assigned an advisory role in the project, which I'm totally willing to take because I want to drive it some time, but having previously had no real interest in that era of cars I'm feeling pretty out of my element. I'm mostly about the EFI era, my only experience with carbs comes from one quad and a bunch of lawn tools. So far it seems like it shouldn't really be rocket science, the car's in nearly perfect shape visually and was well maintained before it was put in storage (indoor, covered) and it's basically a tractor from a mechanical standpoint, but I'm sure there are a bunch of little details that I'd like to try to read about before we learn the hard way. It's been sitting for about 10 years, so we're assuming the tires and any fluids in it will need replacement and any hoses/belts will need to be checked if not replaced, but we're not really sure what else we'll want to look in to before trying to crank it over (and technically we could do this literally, it has a crank, but I don't feel like breaking bones so we're hoping the electric starter works). wolrah fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 23:36
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Phoneposting so I can't find a link to it but LobsterboyX is probably one of the most experienced posters here in terms of cars that old. With that said, post up a thread!
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Feb 8, 2019 01:34
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I have an alignment question....I'm getting ready to put springs in my xB that are about 1.5 inched shorter than stock and according to people in the xB forums lowering the rear messes up the TOE, so it's a good idea to shim the hubs in the front to bring out the toe so it won't eat tires faster. Does this sound accurate? I've never hear of toe being effected form lowering a car, camber sure but not toe.
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Feb 8, 2019 01:59
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No idea how much difference it actually makes, but it's cause the rear suspension is a torsion beam, so as you raise or lower it it changes the toe and camber a little. Like, if you rotate the whole thing 90 degrees camber becomes toe, etc.
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Feb 8, 2019 03:11
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wolrah posted:Are there any good threads for really old cars? A friend of mine has been in possession of a family-owned Model A for a while and has recently been tasked with getting it roadworthy again. As the "car guy" friend I've been pretty much automatically assigned an advisory role in the project, which I'm totally willing to take because I want to drive it some time, but having previously had no real interest in that era of cars I'm feeling pretty out of my element. I'm mostly about the EFI era, my only experience with carbs comes from one quad and a bunch of lawn tools. You’ll be fine with a crank: been there done that. Don’t wrap your thumb around it for safety, and make sure you’re in neutral since you’re standing directly in front of it. Find books and read them. It’s probably a 6volt electrical system, and due to ohms law you’ll have to be sure your connections are clean and solid. Since the voltage is so low you lose a ton of current with high resistance.
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Feb 8, 2019 05:44
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powderific posted:No idea how much difference it actually makes, but it's cause the rear suspension is a torsion beam, so as you raise or lower it it changes the toe and camber a little. Like, if you rotate the whole thing 90 degrees camber becomes toe, etc. Ok that makes sense, I keep forgetting this car has a torsion beam in the rear. Now I just have to find an alignment shop that will do it correctly and shim the hubs.
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Feb 8, 2019 05:49
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BlackMK4 posted:There is more to picking a spring / damper combo than that, you might want to call someone like Ground Control and see what they'd recommend. I am guessing those BCs need to be welded to your existing knuckle and do not include one already.
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Feb 8, 2019 06:58
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Speaking of alignments. My car also has a torsion beam in the rear. AFAIK, there's nothing to adjust back there, aside from centering the beam itself if you happen to remove it for some reason, right? I keep calling around to get front end alignment quotes (I'm replacing my front struts soon, which requires unbolting enough stuff to throw the alignment off), and nobody will quote me for just the front end - they always say I need to get all 4 done, before I can even tell them what kind of car it is, and immediately ask for $90-$120. I'm getting really annoyed with the whole "we know more than you, and you need a 4 wheel ~computerized laser beam alignment~, before you even tell us what kind of car it is". I did replace the rear shocks, but it was literally 2 bolts per side - unbolt old shock, bolt new shock on. I know drat well that didn't throw anything off, since they don't do anything related to positioning anything. The tires are still wearing evenly, so I know the alignment's decent as it sits. I had found a frame/alignment shop in Dallas that did just the front for $30 (ages ago tho), warned me the springs were sagging too much to get it perfect (95 Civic w/200k, of course they were sagging), and they were cool with it when I told them "just make it go straight and we'll call that good nuff, I'll pay in cash and don't give a poo poo about a warranty or receipt". I'd replaced a tie rod, and even tho I counted threads, it threw the steering way off on that car (I think the PO's mechanic had aligned it with the tie rod tweaked). I haven't found a good shop in Austin yet.
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Feb 8, 2019 07:18
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STR posted:Speaking of alignments. My car also has a torsion beam in the rear. AFAIK, there's nothing to adjust back there, aside from centering the beam itself if you happen to remove it for some reason, right? The reason they do this is that you can't make the car go straight without knowing which way the rear wheels point. The way the alignment racks work these days there isn't a way to just do two wheels. You clamp a reflective target onto each of the four wheels. Cameras in the alignment rack watch the targets, you roll the car forward and backward a few feet, and all the measurements come right up. They used to use lasers for this, but that's old hat now. The machine tells you what EXACTLY to adjust, with pretty pictures, and displays in realtime any changes. My car also has a torsion beam rear, and yes, you can change the way the entire assembly is pointing if you unbolt it, but that's not all you can do. An alignment shop can install shims under your rear stub axles where they bolt onto the beam. The alignment rack will even calculate exactly what shim, what position and tell you the part number of the correct shims to use. Of course, 95% of shops won't do this, and the other 5% will charge you extra labor to do it.
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Feb 8, 2019 07:30
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Gotcha. The last alignment I paid for (the Civic) was literally an eyeball alignment, using string and tape measures, but it was a double wishbone with saggy springs, so a computer probably wouldn't have been happy. But this was a very old school alignment shop (they're still around, but only do trucks now, mostly 18 wheelers). How does that work out if the car has a bent wheel? One of mine is slightly out of round (Discount Tire caught it when I got my tires re-balanced last time I had them rotated, but I suspected I had a bent one anyway - you can just barely feel the car going side to side <5 mph, completely smooth above that). A new steelie is on the list, but it's pretty far down on the list unless it has to be done to get an alignment - and I know the steel belts in the tire have conformed to the bend at this point anyway (at least, last time I had a bent steelie replaced and kept the same tire, the tire very obviously kept the bend when it was spun up on the balancing machine). Would sticking the donut spare on work temporarily, since I know which wheel is bent? Or is this just making things worse? the tl;dr is I was hoping to escape the $90+ a 4 wheel alignment was gonna set me back, but I guess I'm stuck with it. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 08:48
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Grakkus posted:Can reusing torque-to-yield head bolts cause head gasket failure-like symptoms? Or is it just a matter of not wanting them to break? This is the BX right? If so then it's a Peugeot XU series engine, and the service manual says the head bolts can be reused providing they haven't stretched beyond a certain length. Personally I wouldn't do it though as the tightening sequence stretches them a LOT and for the price of new ones it's not worth the risk.
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Feb 8, 2019 13:11
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STR posted:Gotcha. The bent wheel is probably being compensated out when the car is rolled back and forth. It's more important to have all 4 tires with the right pressure in them though. Technically the alignment tech's first job is to check and set the tire pressure to whatever's stock for the car, but it's rarely actually done properly like that. Having the spare on will probably change the ride height enough to screw with the accuracy of the alignment. If you buy the top-of-the-line alignment machine, it will have an air nozzle at each wheel, you hook them all up, scan the car's vin with a barcode scanner, and the rack does all the setup, and sets the tire pressure. The thing also has an OBD connector to connect to the car's stability control computer to set the steering wheel center position which is important for keeping the annoying lights off in the dash after an alignment on newer cars. Even though you're paying $90+ for an alignment, expect something for it. So many shops do lazy alignments. They won't bother adjusting things like camber even if it can be adjusted. Get the before/after printout. If you're not happy about what you see, tell them right away and they'll have to make it right.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:29
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The stuff you are describing sounds like an episode out of Star Trek.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:44
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C-Bangin' it 
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Sweevo posted:This is the BX right? If so then it's a Peugeot XU series engine, and the service manual says the head bolts can be reused providing they haven't stretched beyond a certain length. Personally I wouldn't do it though as the tightening sequence stretches them a LOT and for the price of new ones it's not worth the risk. Do head bolts even cost enough to be a corner worth cutting?
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Feb 8, 2019 19:16
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Javid posted:Do head bolts even cost enough to be a corner worth cutting? Well no. Problem is when the dang things are at least $12 a shot.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:31
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0toShifty posted:The bent wheel is probably being compensated out when the car is rolled back and forth. It's more important to have all 4 tires with the right pressure in them though. Technically the alignment tech's first job is to check and set the tire pressure to whatever's stock for the car, but it's rarely actually done properly like that. Having the spare on will probably change the ride height enough to screw with the accuracy of the alignment. ahahahahahahahaha. I've had tire shops tell me they can't set the camber on my subaru to -1.5 without my buying camber bolts. I had brought it into them with it at -1.5. i asked them to show me the bolts on the car. They pull out the camber bolt and get real quiet. I asked them to remove my car from the their rack and left, never to return.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:00
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Colostomy Bag posted:Well no. Problem is when the dang things are at least $12 a shot. Are head bolts special in some way that precludes you determining the material, grade, length, and threading of the originals and taking that information down to Ace? I learned after having my HG done and having to wait for Rockauto to ship the drat bolts that my Ace has them, to the degree described, and I'd been wondering. They were like a couple bucks a piece but still way cheaper than rockauto, and more vitally wouldn't have taken a week to get to me.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:21
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TTY bolts are special, please don't? AFAIK. I could be completely wrong. Queen Combat fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 21:35
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Yeah, that's a question, not advice.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:48
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Javid posted:Are head bolts special in some way that precludes you determining the material, grade, length, and threading of the originals and taking that information down to Ace? I learned after having my HG done and having to wait for Rockauto to ship the drat bolts that my Ace has them, to the degree described, and I'd been wondering. They were like a couple bucks a piece but still way cheaper than rockauto, and more vitally wouldn't have taken a week to get to me. Because being the right size isn't enough. And you won't even likely be able to find the appropriate size (overall dimensions including shoulder height, head size etc). But even if you did find something that matched physically isn't not made of the same material so all the torque specs will be wrong. And those are critical specs for a head gasket.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:58
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Jeeze, don't be an rear end. Torque to yield bolts are single-use, and have special machined bits/metallurgy to do that. They're not available at Ace. I don't know whether yours are TTY or not. E: I was replying to Javid Queen Combat fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 21:59
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For the record, my questions regarding reusing TTY head bolts aren't about saving a couple of bucks  I'm trying to figure out why coolant was still appearing in oil after a HG replacement performed by a crappy mechanic that reused the bolts (among other things, like refilling the cooling system with only water just before winter). There's evidence of water ingress between the gasket and the metal of the head which points me to it not being torqued down properly and/or the bolts being the problem.Sweevo posted:This is the BX right? If so then it's a Peugeot XU series engine, and the service manual says the head bolts can be reused providing they haven't stretched beyond a certain length. Personally I wouldn't do it though as the tightening sequence stretches them a LOT and for the price of new ones it's not worth the risk. Yeah, it's the BX. I saw that in the Haynes manual too, but as you say, risking it for the ~£15 a set of bolts costs seems insane.
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Feb 8, 2019 22:12
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Did he mill the head?
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Feb 8, 2019 22:20
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Grakkus posted:For the record, my questions regarding reusing TTY head bolts aren't about saving a couple of bucks It could be one or more of a bunch of things. Bolts of course, they may have/be working themselves loose. They may never have been torqued properly to begin with. The block and/or head may not have been cleaned properly. The head could have been warped and wasn't sent out to be decked properly. He could have mangled the block or head surfaces while cleaning. He could have over torqued and cracked the head. Does the reason matter? A botched job is a botched job.
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Feb 8, 2019 22:26
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Grakkus posted:For the record, my questions regarding reusing TTY head bolts aren't about saving a couple of bucks Sounds like a bad repair - either a cheap gasket, or not fitted correctly, or the head not checked for straightness before refitting. What originally made you get the gasket replaced? Because those engines get a lot of sludge build-up in the oil filler due to the bad design of the breather hoses, and that can make people think there's a head gasket problem when there isn't.
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Feb 8, 2019 23:43
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Motronic posted:Because being the right size isn't enough. And you won't even likely be able to find the appropriate size (overall dimensions including shoulder height, head size etc). But even if you did find something that matched physically isn't not made of the same material so all the torque specs will be wrong. And those are critical specs for a head gasket. Honestly head bolts are specific enough that if you did find something that checked all of those boxes properly... a) it would probably literally be the exact same supplier selling you the bolts anyway and b) would probably cost more than just getting "the actual set of head bolts".
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Feb 9, 2019 00:07
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Yes, reusing torque-to-yield headbolts absolutely can cause head gasket issues. Not using the proper torque procedure and tools can do the same thing even if you DO use new bolts. TTY fasteners are generally installed to a specific torque value, plus another specified amount of rotation, IE: Torque to 50ftlbs, then turn 60°. This gets the bolt to the designed yield threshold, and then the stretch of the bolt applied during the extra rotation provides a good portion of the clamping load. A used bolt will not produce the design clamping force even when tightened to the specified torque value, because it is already stretched.
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Feb 9, 2019 00:44
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Alright taxes are in, time to make my car legal to appease the hippies who run my state. First off the air intake, it looks like I reuse my air flow sensor that is already on the car. My question is: Does THAT have to be carb compliant as well? I'm worried I'm gonna be throwing up to 300 bucks on this and still get rejected. Also any brand I should look for in particular for grabbing an air intake for an 04 Ford Mustang GT? Been eyeballing this from K&N
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Feb 9, 2019 00:51
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Van just ran out of gas on the freeway on me. 60+ miles short of the amount I get for a full tank. Assuming I wasn't siphoned (possible but if they did they put the cap back on) are there any specific things I can check wrt a sudden mystery drop in mpg? Cargo is within ~50 lbs of normal today, just some groceries. I normally get 12-15, but it crapped out at 364 miles, which is basically 10 with the 36 gallon tank.
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Feb 9, 2019 02:58
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Javid posted:Van just ran out of gas on the freeway on me. 60+ miles short of the amount I get for a full tank. Assuming I wasn't siphoned (possible but if they did they put the cap back on) are there any specific things I can check wrt a sudden mystery drop in mpg? Cargo is within ~50 lbs of normal today, just some groceries. Assuming the wind wasn't just against you more today than usual and there was a legit drop in mileage I'd probably check the tires first. While checking them I'd also do a once over for any parts that may have come loose creating extra drag. Jack it up, spin the wheels, make sure you don't have a stuck brake or a worn bearing dragging.
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Feb 9, 2019 03:57
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Yeah, the gauge is useful in a vague sense only, it pretty much sits on "e" anywhere below half a tank. I use the trip odometer as my gas gauge and keep a can in the back with enough to re-immerse the fuel pump if it DOES run out. A weird thing happened last week that I remembered after the gas ran out - at one point, it wasn't kicking into OD when it should've. Flat road, up to speed, cruise set, it should shift, but it did not. Tested with the OD lockout button, which did absolutely nothing for the sound of the engine. An hour later I was driving home and it DID shift into OD properly, so I just dismissed the incident as a fluke and forgot about it. But it was doing it again today after I got gassed back up. If it's failing to pop into OD any fraction of my driving time, that would explain getting poo poo MPG. Upside: Likely cause. Downside: gently caress, transmission. Anybody got first insights on that one?
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Feb 9, 2019 04:57
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Why are automotive head bolts so engineered? Is it because they're so small but still need to function as head bolts? I'm used to head studs as thick as my calf where replacing the studs/nuts every time you routinely had the head off would be comically laborious and expensive. Specialized fasteners yes, but pretty drat reusable.
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Feb 9, 2019 05:08
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So I went away for a week and had my car parked in the street and some oval office has egged it. Tried vinegar and water, a pressure washer, detergent, crc, nothing seems to budge it off of the window or the door panel. Any suggestions? I'm thinking I might need to cut and polish?
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Feb 9, 2019 08:09
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Try a (plastic) scraper
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Feb 9, 2019 09:10
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shovelbum posted:Why are automotive head bolts so engineered? Is it because they're so small but still need to function as head bolts? I'm used to head studs as thick as my calf where replacing the studs/nuts every time you routinely had the head off would be comically laborious and expensive. Specialized fasteners yes, but pretty drat reusable. Using a TTY bolt lets them spec it a size smaller, which makes the hardware 1 cent cheaper per car or whatever. Also in an automotive application where some cars go their whole service life without ever having the head (s) off, that cost difference of needing to replace them may literally never come into play. From a production engineering pov, it's a perfectly rational decision, and it generally works just fine. Just a bit annoying when you start modifying, but if you push an engine to race levels where teardowns become common, you can generally get stud kits anyway.
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Feb 9, 2019 09:57
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spankmeister posted:Try a (plastic) scraper Cheers
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Feb 9, 2019 10:24
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If they really are smaller due to being TTY, the main advantage is probably in larger cooling passages, not reduced cost.
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Feb 9, 2019 14:34
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BlindSite posted:So I went away for a week and had my car parked in the street and some oval office has egged it. The albumin in eggs will eat through your finish. This is why I never egged on Mischief Night...everything we did was one-time/washable/reversible.
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Feb 9, 2019 15:48
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Javid posted:A weird thing happened last week that I remembered after the gas ran out - at one point, it wasn't kicking into OD when it should've. Flat road, up to speed, cruise set, it should shift, but it did not. Tested with the OD lockout button, which did absolutely nothing for the sound of the engine. That'd definitely do it. Back when I had my Crown Vic in college the transmission was low on fluid at one point and wouldn't lock in to overdrive, so I drove it ~150 miles back to school at highway speeds in third gear. I got something like 6 MPG for that trip when it was usually good for 16-18.
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Feb 9, 2019 16:20
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I can check the fluid today, but it was just checked and topped off during an oil change a couple weeks ago. Google is giving me that it might also be the speed sensor on the transmission, but wouldn't that be also causing the speedo to read poorly? Anyway, I'm taking it to my mechanic Monday already for a couple other minor issues I want to catch before they explode on next month's long road trip, so add that to the pile as priority 1.
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Feb 9, 2019 17:37
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