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Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

I had so much fun playing destiny 1 with my brothers after all the expansions were out, but the gameplay in 2 just seemed way worse. I hated the hard mode dungeons that you had to sprint through and the enemies seemed less dynamic and more prone to teleporting away

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Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


Serephina posted:

Unpopular opinion:

Starcraft2's co-op mode is a sad testament to what people want out of their video games -I say this as a person who used to play it a lot-. Starcraft (and RTS's in general to a lesser degree) is built upon the idea of a competitive game. You're using your dudes to outmaneuver and murder an opponent playing with similar stuff that you are. Battle of the brains and all that. Campains are fun and all, but even older RTS's like the C&C entries had a ton of fun in the skirmish mode.

SC2's co-op is basically distilling any stressful/difficult/competitive aspects of the game out of the game mode. You're given a fun mini-race with a strong schtick and told to walk around the map killing and defending stuff. It's asymmetrical, which is fine, but the problem is that your race's schtick is SO STRONG that victory is a foregone conclusion. People like winning! Opposition implies you have to work for it, and might not get it. Big no-no!

So basically you have a game mode that:
Is designed to be easily won (Btw your 'co-op ally' is irrelevant, him leaving the game only makes thing every so slightly harder)
Encourages excessive repetition to get marginal stacking metagame bonuses (grinding xp, literally)
Encourages addictive behavior, via xp as mentioned above, but also stuff like "first win of the day bonus" etc.
And oh, has ingame purchases being shoved into your face constantly. Allies with cool DLC factions, etc.


So Blizzard's post-launch support is great, sure. But it exists mostly as a way to monetize the "casuals" with addictive behavior sales.

100% speed-based twitch RTSing (and RTS games in general) have fallen out of favor with players who are not trying to win international tournaments, that is, 99.9% of them.

The point of SC2 co-op is that you can enjoy a relaxed experience that will go about 30 minutes tops, and play multiple styles (most of the co-op factions have about two viable builds at most, but there are 10 factions, so eh) without worrying about APM, opening builds, and other major turnoffs for most people who just want to enjoy themselves.

It was kind of a no-brainer that was years behind the trend, because outside of DOTA, co-op has always been popular in pretty much any RTS (or really most games) that offers it. I would expect future Blizzard games to emphasize this more thoroughly, instead of the fairly light but successful co-op experience in SC2.

Not everyone wants to be stressed out or competitive. The numbers reveal that actually, very few do.

Name Change fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Feb 19, 2019

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
RTSes have a lot of issues like fighting games where the competitive scene is intimating, elitist, and presents itself very differently from the initial gameplay. There's a lot of people, like me, who enjoy RTS games and aren't very good at them.

Hell, the SC2 co-op sounds like the Age of Empires II games a bunch of goons were organising through GBS a while back that I joined in on when I could, teaming up against AIs in a low-stress PvE co-op gaming environment.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

All I want from an RTS game is the ability to play against a cheating AI which ultimately cannot deal with my turtling and epic base building tactics

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


Shibawanko posted:

All I want from an RTS game is the ability to play against a cheating AI which ultimately cannot deal with my turtling and epic base building tactics

I've been saying for years that someone needs to make this game. Coolest looking base wins

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

I want to kill Hitler.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Go play world of keflings you degenerates

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


That game was pretty fun, but marred by the avatar thing and hideous visual design in general

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011

by FactsAreUseless
Fun Shoe

Shibawanko posted:

All I want from an RTS game is the ability to play against a cheating AI which ultimately cannot deal with my turtling and epic base building tactics

C&C generals zero hour already exists

tuo
Jun 17, 2016

Aliens: Colonial Marines wasn't as bad as critics made it to be

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"

far cry 5 was really fun and the amount of bitchboy handwringing about the plot and the admittedly kind of annoying way it is delivered is kind of insane for a game where you can sic a bear on a bunch of violent hillbillies from an attack helicopter before going and fishing for a while

also some of the weird game-within-a-game arcade machine levels were really fuckin' cool and did sweet things with the engine

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


food court bailiff posted:

far cry 5 was really fun and the amount of bitchboy handwringing about the plot and the admittedly kind of annoying way it is delivered is kind of insane for a game where you can sic a bear on a bunch of violent hillbillies from an attack helicopter before going and fishing for a while

also some of the weird game-within-a-game arcade machine levels were really fuckin' cool and did sweet things with the engine

I really want to play 5 and New Dawn but drat if they just seem like 100% reskins of 3 (just like how 4 and Primal were) with almost nothing new in terms of gameplay.

By the way Primal was loving trash.

e: also it's still a little weird to me that a game that takes place in Whitesville, Montana prominently features 2 black ladies as the savage, psychopathic bad guys

poverty goat
Feb 15, 2004



Snow Cone Capone posted:

I really want to play 5 and New Dawn but drat if they just seem like 100% reskins of 3 (just like how 4 and Primal were) with almost nothing new in terms of gameplay.

By the way Primal was loving trash.

new dawn actually got a pretty good review from rps. it seems like they're aware of our complaints and are experimenting a bit like they've done with the last couple of asscreeds

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/02/14/far-cry-new-dawn-review/

my biggest complaint with fc5, other than that the dead horse is really starting to show its age, was that the guns took a turn for the samey and had very little sense of actual progression, so there was never anything like the moment at the end of fc3 where you were charging in on the back of an elephant spraying lead everywhere from your mg42, just a long series of roughly equivalent rifles

poverty goat fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Feb 19, 2019

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Smugworth Wuz Here
Battle Hunter on the PSX is p juicy.

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004

Snow Cone Capone posted:

By the way Primal was loving trash.

:wrong:

TheScott2K
Oct 26, 2003

I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

tuo posted:

Aliens: Colonial Marines wasn't as bad as critics made it to be

gotta fix that .ini

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003



It was an incredibly shallow overlay of caveman poo poo onto an FC game

It's lucky the bow & arrow is like the best weapon in any FC game otherwise it would have been pretty hilarious to see them try to reconcile a shooter with no shooters. At least riding a tiger was a little more fun than riding a dirtbike I guess?

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


TheScott2K posted:

gotta fix that .ini

Wasn't that Isolation?

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Serephina posted:

Unpopular opinion:

Starcraft2's co-op mode is a sad testament to what people want out of their video games

:jerkbag:

Rockman Reserve
Oct 2, 2007

"Carbons? Purge? What are you talking about?!"


yeah i forgot about that post but



holy lol

Das Butterbrot
Dec 2, 2005
Lecker.
the best / most fun RTS mode is Wargame's 10v10s

Also, Wargame is the best RTS overall

!Klams
Dec 25, 2005

Squid Squad

Snow Cone Capone posted:

Wasn't that Isolation?

No, it was colonial Marines, where the .ini file had to be switched from

"Aliensonateather" to "Aliensonatether" and it suddenly worked as a game. Like, holy gently caress.

!Klams fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Feb 20, 2019

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Ah ok, I was having trouble since they both have bizarre and awful alien AIs. Too bad Isolation isn't as quick of a fix :v:

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Das Butterbrot posted:

the best / most fun RTS mode is Wargame's 10v10s

Also, Wargame is the best RTS overall

10v10 on the actual 10v10 maps was fun as hell, but when people got the dedicated servers and started playing them on 4v4 or less maps they got really lame.

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004

Serephina posted:

Unpopular opinion:

Starcraft2's co-op mode is a sad testament to what people want out of their video games -I say this as a person who used to play it a lot-. Starcraft (and RTS's in general to a lesser degree) is built upon the idea of a competitive game. You're using your dudes to outmaneuver and murder an opponent playing with similar stuff that you are. Battle of the brains and all that. Campains are fun and all, but even older RTS's like the C&C entries had a ton of fun in the skirmish mode.

SC2's co-op is basically distilling any stressful/difficult/competitive aspects of the game out of the game mode. You're given a fun mini-race with a strong schtick and told to walk around the map killing and defending stuff. It's asymmetrical, which is fine, but the problem is that your race's schtick is SO STRONG that victory is a foregone conclusion. People like winning! Opposition implies you have to work for it, and might not get it. Big no-no!

So basically you have a game mode that:
Is designed to be easily won (Btw your 'co-op ally' is irrelevant, him leaving the game only makes thing every so slightly harder)
Encourages excessive repetition to get marginal stacking metagame bonuses (grinding xp, literally)
Encourages addictive behavior, via xp as mentioned above, but also stuff like "first win of the day bonus" etc.
And oh, has ingame purchases being shoved into your face constantly. Allies with cool DLC factions, etc.


So Blizzard's post-launch support is great, sure. But it exists mostly as a way to monetize the "casuals" with addictive behavior sales.

durrrr

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


blizzard makes lovely cash in, cash shop games for babies and that's just their loving thing now.

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

i mean if you like that stupid idiot garbage that's cool but it's really bad and blizzard is an embarassing mockery of what they used to be

capitalism is gross

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

Sodomy Hussein posted:

100% speed-based twitch RTSing (and RTS games in general) have fallen out of favor with players who are not trying to win international tournaments, that is, 99.9% of them.

The point of SC2 co-op is that you can enjoy a relaxed experience that will go about 30 minutes tops, and play multiple styles (most of the co-op factions have about two viable builds at most, but there are 10 factions, so eh) without worrying about APM, opening builds, and other major turnoffs for most people who just want to enjoy themselves.

It was kind of a no-brainer that was years behind the trend, because outside of DOTA, co-op has always been popular in pretty much any RTS (or really most games) that offers it. I would expect future Blizzard games to emphasize this more thoroughly, instead of the fairly light but successful co-op experience in SC2.

Not everyone wants to be stressed out or competitive. The numbers reveal that actually, very few do.

Yup. The most popular map on SC/BW was Big Game Hunters, a map famous for giving every base a chokepoint you could easily defend, a close natural expansion and more resources than a standard starting position would give you. The most common way of playing this map was 4v4 AI. People loved just turtling in their base and teching up to the late-game capital ships and attack move throughout the map. There are probably more people that played the game setting than have finished the campaign.

Shibawanko posted:

All I want from an RTS game is the ability to play against a cheating AI which ultimately cannot deal with my turtling and epic base building tactics

Supreme Commander / Forged Alliance is great for this. You can even build artillery with such long range you can just shell the enemy base to death.

BeanpolePeckerwood
May 4, 2004

I MAY LOOK LIKE SHIT BUT IM ALSO DUMB AS FUCK



basic hitler posted:

blizzard makes lovely cash in, cash shop games for babies and that's just their loving thing now.

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

i mean if you like that stupid idiot garbage that's cool but it's really bad and blizzard is an embarassing mockery of what they used to be

capitalism is gross

Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

basic hitler posted:

blizzard makes lovely cash in, cash shop games for babies and that's just their loving thing now.

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

i mean if you like that stupid idiot garbage that's cool but it's really bad and blizzard is an embarassing mockery of what they used to be

capitalism is gross

Sorryformybadjokes
Apr 21, 2004

I identify as a simian who pronounces the 'silent' letters in words.
Fallen Rib
quake 3 but all the maps ever made combined into a sorta 100 player mega deathmatch where if you die in the game a hooded masked man shoots you in the back of the head with a captive bolt gun

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005


basic hitler posted:

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

Diablo 3 was really the writing on the wall.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


I was so loving excited for Wings of Liberty but I never even played the other 2.

e: I actually still have the physical copy I bought at midnight on launch night. I was walking home after taking a bus back to my city and passed by a Gamestop that was doing a midnight release thing, it was p. funny

Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

diablo 3 is a super awesome multiplayer beat em up for consoles but a terrible rpg for pcs

its the dodge roll that does it, it changes the whole game feel.

Riot Bimbo
Dec 28, 2006


I heard everyone talking up the expansion years later, and it was on sale for like $5 so i installed it and played D3 again last year

It's not really a bad game but uhh good lord people paid like $40 for THAT? the expansion is ridiculously short and lacking. people were talking about it like it was the savior of diablo 3 when it came out

D3 sucked when it came out though and it's still pretty bad as a game you play more than once, which is supposed to be the whole gimmick of it

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

Snow Cone Capone posted:

I was so loving excited for Wings of Liberty but I never even played the other 2.

e: I actually still have the physical copy I bought at midnight on launch night. I was walking home after taking a bus back to my city and passed by a Gamestop that was doing a midnight release thing, it was p. funny

:same: I actually bought the collector's edition. Starcraft might just be my favorite game ever.

I have zero desire to buy or play the other 'episodes' of SC2 now. RIP to one of my favorite gaming developers

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

basic hitler posted:

blizzard makes lovely cash in, cash shop games for babies and that's just their loving thing now.

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

i mean if you like that stupid idiot garbage that's cool but it's really bad and blizzard is an embarassing mockery of what they used to be

capitalism is gross

The SC2 coop mode has almost no cash elements, it's literally just new commanders. The other cash shop poo poo (emotes, portraits, etc) is all hidden away in a separate unobtrusive tab that I don't click, so it never bothers me

But I can't speak to Diablo 3 and of course Heroes of the Storm is all cash shop nonsense because it's a MOBA

Comfy Fleece Sweater
Apr 2, 2013

You see, but you do not observe.

basic hitler posted:

blizzard makes lovely cash in, cash shop games for babies and that's just their loving thing now.

it's like yeah, sc2 wol came out and that was back when you could argue they hadn't quite shown their true colors yet but now...

i mean if you like that stupid idiot garbage that's cool but it's really bad and blizzard is an embarassing mockery of what they used to be

capitalism is gross

Stop posting popular opinions here

appropriatemetaphor
Jan 26, 2006

I like Paradox's dlc policy because I like the games and don't mind spending ~$60 a year on something I get hundreds/thousands of hours of fun out of.

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


appropriatemetaphor posted:

thousands of hours of fun out of



:chloe:

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Caesar Saladin
Aug 15, 2004

i've never played a video game for longer than 150 hours and that was witcher 3 with all the expansions

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