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HoboMan posted:I just got to the salary survey in here and having every company ive talked to tell me that asking for $110k with no other perks is pushing it when you guys are all like "yeah i just got $150k with another $200k in stock options and $50k signing bonus. im not crazy about it but beggars can't be choosers" is making me feel some type of way Its all about location with those insane salaries, and even in the expensive locations there is a huge gulf between the smaller companies and FANG My old job loved to tell us "our salaries are competitive with the big companies!!" which by the strictest definition was true... the base pay was """competitive'"", they just willfully ignored the fact that large companies give double digit percentage bonuses, and stock options and numerous other perks and elevated prestige, etc etc etc to the point where it really is a whole other world
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Mar 22, 2019 15:38
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HoboMan posted:I just got to the salary survey in here and having every company ive talked to tell me that asking for $110k with no other perks is pushing it when you guys are all like "yeah i just got $150k with another $200k in stock options and $50k signing bonus. im not crazy about it but beggars can't be choosers" is making me feel some type of way i know that feeling intimately and i am still trying to wrap my head around the absurd offer i just signed location super matters though
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Mar 22, 2019 15:53
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Chill Callahan posted:ask them what their liquidation preferences look like ty, I had thought this only mattered with preferred stock (which as nbsd points out I'm not getting), so I'll explore this
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Mar 22, 2019 15:59
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HoboMan posted:I just got to the salary survey in here and having every company ive talked to tell me that asking for $110k with no other perks is pushing it when you guys are all like "yeah i just got $150k with another $200k in stock options and $50k signing bonus. im not crazy about it but beggars can't be choosers" is making me feel some type of way You too can make that much in a figgieland Will have to move to a figgieland tho
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Mar 22, 2019 16:03
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waiting on a response to a counter 
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Mar 22, 2019 16:12
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reading this thread is a trip. my public sector IT salary isn't great, but the benefits are killer and interviews for staff are literally a peer review process conducted by the people they'll be working with plus someone who won't as a check on favoritism. management are not involved at all between the initial "we're posting this position, pick someone who this position will not report to as the hiring committee chair" and the post-recommendation "HR and EEOC will review the committee's decision to ensure that the committee did not engage in discriminatory practices." on the private sector side, my brother went from lovely retail and contract jobs, to a recruiter whose only question was "are you willing to cut your hair?" (my brother is a literal viking, just short of 7 feet tall, and has hair down to his lower back and a big, but well groomed beard ) to a company where the "just to see how you react to unexpected questions" interview question is "who's your favorite superhero?" each department has a flamethrower and they routinely order liquid nitrogen for fun. It's not a BS startup (you can probably guess what company it is but please don't name them). They also pay 100% of employees' medical for people who make under $100k and have an unlimited time off policy that's informally understood to be 3 weeks vacation, but if you have personal stuff like taking a parent to chemo, it's just understood that you have better things to do than to be at work, unlike his previous employer, who were loving assholes and wrote him up for taking a personal day when mom needed a ride to the hospital.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:36
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HoboMan posted:I just got to the salary survey in here and having every company ive talked to tell me that asking for $110k with no other perks is pushing it when you guys are all like "yeah i just got $150k with another $200k in stock options and $50k signing bonus. im not crazy about it but beggars can't be choosers" is making me feel some type of way Oldest trick in the book dot com.
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Mar 22, 2019 16:49
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See also "nobody makes that much here", "we only pay a market wage", and the timeless classic "there are no jobs at other companies"
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Mar 22, 2019 16:53
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i interviewed with one of the FANG companies back in August and they asked me super basic questions like RC circuits, resistor dividers and some basic coding. i answered everything with no problems (almost 5yrs experience doing pcb design...) and ended up getting rejected for not being experienced enough. lol. anyway i just got an offer and i am going from $133k base (no stocks) to $135k base, $105k RSU and a $35k sign on bonus. Hardware salaries suck but i am happy with that.
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Mar 22, 2019 17:52
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pluckyginger posted:i interviewed with one of the FANG companies back in August and they asked me super basic questions like RC circuits, resistor dividers and some basic coding. i answered everything with no problems (almost 5yrs experience doing pcb design...) and ended up getting rejected for not being experienced enough. lol. Nice, congradulations 
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Mar 22, 2019 18:12
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I feel like somebody should be tracking the cumulative compensation increases as a direct result of reading this thread. It'd be at least 7 figures.
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Mar 22, 2019 20:53
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It's a shitload. I personally have used tips from this thread to convince multiple friends to get substantially larger offers
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Mar 23, 2019 00:34
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i basically doubled my comp thanks to this thread
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Mar 23, 2019 00:44
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I didn't raise my comp much but I'm escaping a hellhole of a city and a really lame employment situation, so sure
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Mar 23, 2019 01:26
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also a lot of the advice here is very useful for interviewing so thats gotta be worth a few mil in productivity by not hiring deadshits
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Mar 23, 2019 01:45
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I just used all the startup questions (in various forms) and will be receiving an offer monday
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Mar 23, 2019 07:16
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i think im getting an offer on monday too
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Mar 23, 2019 18:20
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Hi thread, cross posting this because I really need some advice. I came out of college and really wanted to move out of my parents house so I took a job in sales with a large copier company. I was pretty good at it and made some good money. I got really tired of sales after about 3 years, burnt out and started looking to leave. I accompanied my girlfriend of the time to a job fair where I didn't even have a resume, I just showed up since I was in the area and ended up talking to a tech company in the medical industry. They offered me an interview and than a job pretty quickly which I took. I was hired at 55K into implementation since I had no industry or tech experience. I was employee hire about 40ish or so and quickly became the go-to implementation guy. I begin handling large or strategic accounts for our core software platform. I did account management stuff too, but I quickly got bored after about a year and a half. At this time the company had just developed and released a new CRM platform that was designed to be industry specific aimed at knocking off salesforce. (lofty goals). The platform has a team of 8 developers and one really gifted serious VP who does all the product management, runs the dev team, and does like 3 other jobs. She trained me and I started setting up clients on our new CRM platform. The company also hired a sales guy who was really good and started popping CRM deals at a very fast pace, so I was assigned someone to train. I ended up training and managing 3 implementer while I again started only taking the important/strategic accounts on the CRM. I also now participate in the development of the product with my VP. I am on architecture, requirements and sprint planning meetings. I scope new features from clients, put in stories, order the backlog, and participate in sprint planning and UI/UX for the CRM platform. This sort blend of Product/Software Development or Management is something I really enjoy and would like to pursue as my career. I am a very good product/project manager and a very bad people manager. I've also received a raise in base salary to 90K. The company now employees something like 160ish people (i was 40ish) While this was going on, the company also developed a billing/revenue platform, a messaging/admin platform and a handful of other secondary smaller platforms. I was involved in someway on all of them. I've also been responsible for internationalzing our CRM platform during this time. I am literally the only person in the company who can implement and train the entire enterprise suit that we've now built over the last 2 years or so. The sales team in general is not very good at selling the enterprise suite or anything other than the core platform. Sales across all the new products is very very slow, and the superstar sales guy who can and does sell everything is leaving the company. I have a close relationship with most of the executive team, the COO and CTO and I have a close and personalish relationship. This company is privately held and the CEO is also the sole owner after some buybacks and ~stuff~ . He is a former sales guy and the sales team is his personal team and highly regarded in the company, they all make a ton of money etc etc. Essentially he asked to see me last week and said that ~superstar sales guy~ is leaving, we need like a sales engineer that knows all the products and can assist on existing deals as well as sell new enterprise deals. Sales for everything except are core product are glacially slow to non existent, I'm in a position to save a bunch of poo poo and make a bunch of money. He wants me to do this. I told him I wasn't going to give him an answer now and needed to think about this considering I joined this company to NOT do sales after burning out selling copiers. Now, I have no personal desire to do this, but I am good at sales, but will probably hate my life if I do this. We have approx 2300 clients, of which maybe 200ish are on any mix of our enterprise platforms while perhaps another 50 are complete enterprise, so there is alot of easy opportunity for inside sales to existing clients. Sales guys start at 60K salary with a 50-100K draw for a starting pay of somewhere between 110-160K. The draw is forgiven at the end of the year if you don't make it, but everyone always does. The way they calculate the draw is 10% of any deal you close is your commission. That commission goes toward you draw, and than onto your check after you meet your draw. He wants me on that model of compensation which is obviously bullshit since i make 95K salary now and i'm underpaid as it is, but he's known to negotiate. Compensation is just 10% of total deal, no recurring revenue or residuals. I don't want to do sales, but I fear saying no to him will put me on his poo poo list and effectively end my advancement with this company. I don't like the stress and having to be on and friendly and networking and poo poo all the time. I also want to move into more of a product management or software dev managment or biz analyst type role. On the other hand, they desperately need someone, and there probably is alot of easy low hanging fruit. Can i deal with hating my life and the stress of the job if the money is there? maybe. I don't know if I should say no, and just start looking for jobs, say yes and attempt to extract terms that I find acceptable and than either stay till i burn out or just for a year and get out or what to do. If I would say yes to this, given my 95K salary now, what sort of salary/draw or compensation structure should I look for? I'm interested in mitigating my exposure to this draw, particularly if i decide to gently caress off and leave 3 months after I take this job. I have been told i will still be involved in the development of the platforms and can still participate in story writing, sprint planning and requirements. What are some benefits I can ask for in relation to this position? what are some questions I should ask from a sales or compensation perspective? Whats a good title i can put on my resume that makes it look like im managing a product or something? I feel like I may be taking a step back in regards to what I want to do. This is like a detour for money. I think sales is a dead end stressful place to be. Am i loving dumb for entertaining this? should i just say no and look to move ASAP? I can also afford to quit and not have something lined up immediately. I'm paid out on rent and little to no bills. Idk what to do pls help would appreciate any thoughts. Apolgies for the rambling TLDR - left company to get out of sales. Got into project/product management in new company. New products not selling, being asked to do sales.
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Mar 23, 2019 19:15
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your post said like five times that you don’t want the job it also said you might consider it if the money is right, right after saying that the money isn’t right doesn’t seem like much of a question here?
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Mar 23, 2019 19:20
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Nice meltdown, bro.
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Mar 23, 2019 19:33
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Please don't do any job you don't actually want just because big boss said so
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Mar 23, 2019 20:01
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The default answer for job related qs here should be, "start looking for new job", in the same way the default answer to an r/relationships question should be "dump the motherfucking rear end in a top hat" If it's come to asking randoes on the internet, it's already hosed
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Mar 23, 2019 20:08
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yeah look for a better job op
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Mar 23, 2019 20:11
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[quote="Waroduce" post=""493606923”"] Whats a good title i can put on my resume that makes it look like im managing a product or something? TLDR - left company to get out of sales. Got into project/product management in new company. New products not selling, being asked to do sales. [/quote] that’s a shitload of words 1) don’t take the sales job, 2) make a resume that says “product manager” on it, titles barely mean poo poo across companies anyway, 3) find a new job that pays more at some other company that doesn’t want you to do sales basically this: raminasi posted:your post said like five times that you don’t want the job
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Mar 23, 2019 20:14
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bob dobbs is dead posted:The default answer for job related qs here should be, "start looking for new job", in the same way the default answer to an r/relationships question should be "dump the motherfucking rear end in a top hat" also because people generally have an overly strong motivation to avoid risk and change which means saying "change things a lot" is often good advice (except for a select few who need to do a whole lot less of it)
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Mar 23, 2019 20:26
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Just under a year ago I accepted a job at a place I knew would be chaotic/lovely. It is, and the figgies are high I guess but they don't go as far in my area. That said I *think* I'm doing alright (but its hard to tell thru imposter syndrome) and can stay for a bit longer if I want... But I started talking to another company. They want me for one of three senior roles. The biggest drawback is on their jobs site there's dozens of open senior roles making me think they churn a lot... Their first-party recruiter seems aggressively interested after just one call, and wants me to pick one of the three roles and provide salary expectations (I'm going firmly to hold off on salary discussion, hopefully getting them to make me an offer after an in-person) The three roles are (in order of what the recruiter told me is the "greatest need") Sr Salesforce engineer I'm not too familiar with salesforce, but have experience with what I think are other similar/proprietary systems This role has the "greatest need" according to recruiter = $$$? Since I openly mentioned I have little salesforce experience, its a little worrying they mentioned this at all Sr engineer for cloud apps or services or whatever Been getting a lot of cloud services experience at $currentjob Will be working on their flagship product (not sure if job security? probably some rough legacy code?) Sr engineer involving machine learning stuff Machine learning is hot right now = $$$$$? I have a ton of data, stats, research etc experience, this is probably closest to my comfort zone But they mentioned this the least pressing role What I need is - Is it a bad idea to leave a job I could probably keep working at (though stressed) after only a year? Will "more figgies" be an acceptable excuse in 5 years or whatever when someone asks me? - how to encourage this recruiter to move along with the process, and switch the conversation from me providing salary expectations to them making me an offer - weighing the pros and cons of the three positions thank you for helping me yospos Phraggah fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 23, 2019 |
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Mar 23, 2019 21:30
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1 year is plenty, and the phrase you're looking for is "it was a fantastic opportunity to advance my career" and nobody will care
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Mar 23, 2019 21:43
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Pressing or not, ML roles pay through the ears right now. Just because they don't need the person Right Now does not mean they won't pay the required figures to the right person.
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Mar 23, 2019 22:09
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Waroduce posted:TLDR - left company to get out of sales. Got into project/product management in new company. New products not selling, being asked to do sales. all else aside that is a poo poo compensation plan for sales and the base salary is offensively low. enterprise CRM sales in Australia is $280 to $300k OTE, $110k base at least.
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Mar 24, 2019 04:55
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Thanks for the thoughts you two. Still looking for further advice or a magic set of words on how to shift the "we need to talk about compensation now or we aren't moving forward" shtick to me getting them to make an offer first
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Mar 24, 2019 12:39
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Phraggah posted:Thanks for the thoughts you two. "I appreciate that you guys would like to discuss whether my expectations are within budget and I'm so far very keen on the company, however for me this is still at an early stage and I need to more thoroughly understand the role before I'm comfortable estimating a fair compensation for the responsibilities involved. At the end of the day, I just want to be paid proportionally to the responsibilities of the job. If there is a good fit, I'm sure we can work something out." If they still won't proceed, sever, there is no high paying job behind that bullshit.
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Mar 24, 2019 18:12
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Phraggah posted:Thanks for the thoughts you two. https://www.amazon.com/How-Make-Thousand-Dollars-Minute/dp/0898151910 in general, talking salary before an interview is almost totally pointless since it can only rule you out and nobody really knows what they're willing to pay until after the interview if the recruiter is extremely firm about it, it just means their budget is stupid tight and you're not going to get paid, so move on
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Mar 24, 2019 18:46
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one of the things they sometimes try to pull is "we just want a ballpark number to make sure we're not wasting each others' time" the few times i've gotten that i've just said that i'm not worried about it, they didn't like it but they couldn't exactly contradict me
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Mar 24, 2019 19:20
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nth-ing the don't take the sales job, but I also doubt you'll get on the CEO's "shitlist" if you say no... You're doing a LOT for them for 90k a year, the CEO might want you in a sales position, but unless he's an enormous idiot he's not gonna rock the boat if you say no. If you're happy where you are and think you're learning a lot, I would bring up your pay in a separate conversation since 90k seems low for a pretty senior person with the company (depends on location of course). If you're tired of the company or think its prospects are dim, now would be a good time to start looking too. Basically: If you're just doing it for the money, stay in development and either negotiate a raise, or jump ship, because you should be making a dece 6 figgies in most markets.
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Mar 24, 2019 19:38
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Phraggah posted:Thanks for the thoughts you two. California is great for this. them: "we need a number to move forward" you: "what's the range for the position?" them, forced to answer BY LAW: "x to y" you: the high end of that is a great starting point works every time
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Mar 24, 2019 22:54
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Fish Ladder Theory posted:California is great for this. Again, even entertaining this means they'll give you a lower high point than they would after they've interviewed you. Noone who has money to pay, and I do mean noone, needs a number to move forward. The only reason for needing a number is if they have a budget which is very small and completely inflexible, which is no good for the computer figgy toucher reading this thread.
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Mar 25, 2019 07:54
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"put a dollar in if the form requires a number to validate" "im comfortable with the market rate"
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Mar 25, 2019 20:00
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Last time I saw a form that asked "what was your salary in your last position" I answered "Decent, but not as good as the salary in my current position" gently caress anyone who tries to bilk information out of you e: No, I did not get a call back
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Mar 25, 2019 21:55
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Not a Children posted:Last time I saw a form that asked "what was your salary in your last position" I answered "Decent, but not as good as the salary in my current position" if i had said a number in the interview for $CURRENT_JOB, i would have said $10k less than their first offer, and $20k less than i ended up getting never say a number first
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Mar 25, 2019 22:02
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ok i'm getting an offer. we haven't discussed compensation at any point in the process. i was hoping they would just send me an offer outright but instead we scheduled a call for tomorrow. i'm assuming the purpose of the call tomorrow is just to get me to give them a number, right? should i be prepared for anything else? i've never made it this far without comp coming up.
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Mar 26, 2019 00:16
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