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There’s always possibility of someone else trying their hand at making a modern BioWare style game. Ubisoft could probably make one within 2 years, looking at how fast their rear end.Creed and Far Cry games come.
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Apr 3, 2019 11:54
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Patrick Weekes is still there, and he's competent. But yeah, other than that, the core team has been gutted.
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Apr 3, 2019 12:03
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alex314 posted:There’s always possibility of someone else trying their hand at making a modern BioWare style game. Ubisoft could probably make one within 2 years, looking at how fast their rear end.Creed and Far Cry games come. But RPGs aren't the big money makers like shooters and sports games (the article notes that a huge chunk of Anthem's tech staff got pulled away to help make FIFA, which also uses Frostbite, because FIFA is a far bigger money maker for EA than Bioware), so companies aren't as inclined to make them. Bioware used to have one hell of a captive audience, myself included, but now? Alas.
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Apr 3, 2019 13:16
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microsoft now owns all the american rpg houses that still do party based rpgs
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Apr 3, 2019 13:28
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So... Obsidian?
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Apr 3, 2019 13:31
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Skippy McPants posted:So... Obsidian? dont forget inxile!
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Apr 3, 2019 13:32
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I guess I'm subscribing to Gamepass then (or at least when the games start coming out). Well done MS, you finally got me.
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Apr 3, 2019 13:34
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Cythereal posted:But RPGs aren't the big money makers like shooters and sports games (the article notes that a huge chunk of Anthem's tech staff got pulled away to help make FIFA, which also uses Frostbite, because FIFA is a far bigger money maker for EA than Bioware), so companies aren't as inclined to make them. yeah witcher 3 sold like crap...wait
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Apr 3, 2019 13:49
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Skippy McPants posted:So... Obsidian? I haven't enjoyed an Obsidian game since Mask of the Betrayer. Pillars and Divinity: Original Sin both completely failed to click with me. DoctorGonzo posted:yeah witcher 3 sold like crap...wait That's fair, I guess. I've never played it and never will, so I tend to forget it exists.
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Apr 3, 2019 13:49
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DoctorGonzo posted:yeah witcher 3 sold like crap...wait Witcher 3 did well, bit it has nothing on fifa when comparing its income to its cost to make.
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Apr 3, 2019 14:05
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Cythereal posted:I haven't enjoyed an Obsidian game since Mask of the Betrayer. Pillars and Divinity: Original Sin both completely failed to click with me. divinity... isn’t obsidian; it’s larian studios
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Apr 3, 2019 14:06
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I'm so loving sick of the words "live service"
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Apr 3, 2019 14:31
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Groetgaffel posted:I'm so loving sick of the words "live service" Giiiiiiiit used to it. Once Google or someone else figures out streaming all your games will be housed on remote servers and delivered over data-capped pipes, with gameplay that is chock-full of microtransaction goodness. By the time they're done with you, you'll have forgotten what it ever felt like to not be paying for something all the time.
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Apr 3, 2019 14:57
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Skippy McPants posted:Giiiiiiiit used to it. Once Google or someone else figures out streaming all your games will be housed on remote servers and delivered over data-capped pipes, with gameplay that is chock-full of microtransaction goodness. By the time they're done with you, you'll have forgotten what it ever felt like to not be paying for something all the time. Especially in light of recent events.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:32
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No see, your ISP will team up with the streaming service to offer a 20% discount on their PREMIUM GAMER tier of service. You'll get all the monthly payments you could ever hope for!
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Apr 3, 2019 15:36
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Cythereal posted:But RPGs aren't the big money makers like shooters and sports games (the article notes that a huge chunk of Anthem's tech staff got pulled away to help make FIFA, which also uses Frostbite, because FIFA is a far bigger money maker for EA than Bioware), so companies aren't as inclined to make them. CDPR has largely captured that market, the AAA rpg crowd. Especially with Cyperpunk 2077 which is guaranteed to have massive sales based on word of mouth alone.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:45
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Thank gently caress I don't live in the states. I actually have good internet.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:46
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Savy Saracen salad posted:CDPR has largely captured that market, the AAA rpg crowd. Especially with Cyperpunk 2077 which is guaranteed to have massive sales based on word of mouth alone. I do hope Cyberpunk is good. The Witcher games never really clicked with me.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:50
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Savy Saracen salad posted:CDPR has largely captured that market, the AAA rpg crowd. Especially with Cyperpunk 2077 which is guaranteed to have massive sales based on word of mouth alone. This is the first I've ever heard of that game. Or company.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:51
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Cythereal posted:This is the first I've ever heard of that game. Or company. They're the Witcher people.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:55
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CottonWolf posted:They're the Witcher people. Oh. That would do it. And found the thread for Cyberpunk 2077. Pity it's an open world game, guess I'll look and see if it can overcome that hurdle.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:58
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Cythereal posted:This is the first I've ever heard of that game. Or company. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjF9GgrY9c0
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Apr 3, 2019 16:49
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Cythereal posted:Oh. That would do it. New Vegas, Witcher 3, and hopefully Cyberpunk are the only game to really do open worlds right in regards to the story. They tell complete, engaging stories with choices/consequences that matter, with a backdrop of sidequests and activites that you can pursue to your heart's content. If you don't like open world games because they tend to be quantity over quality and/or have messy narratives, Witcher 3 and New Vegas at least largely avoid those foibles. And the Witcher 3 stole the "best game I've ever played, ever" award from the Baldur's Gate trilogy, and it wasn't even a struggle.
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Apr 3, 2019 16:58
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CP2077 will be more akin to Rockstar style single protagonist game. You'll get to play with other side characters once in a while, but the core will just be V. Of course I expect a lot more choice and consequences compared to completely unimportant choices linear story and in GTA V. It won't scratch the same itch DA or ME game did.. I also wouldn't put CDPR on a pedestal and make CP2077 the second coming of Gaming Jesus - you set yourself for disappointment.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:08
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chaosapiant posted:New Vegas, Witcher 3, and hopefully Cyberpunk are the only game to really do open worlds right in regards to the story. They tell complete, engaging stories with choices/consequences that matter, with a backdrop of sidequests and activites that you can pursue to your heart's content. If you don't like open world games because they tend to be quantity over quality and/or have messy narratives, Witcher 3 and New Vegas at least largely avoid those foibles. And the Witcher 3 stole the "best game I've ever played, ever" award from the Baldur's Gate trilogy, and it wasn't even a struggle. I don't like open world games because I don't like running around pointlessly trying to figure out how to reach a particular location or find that one NPC or get drawn into time-wasting bullshit because I can't tell what matters and what doesn't. Mass Effect 2 and 3 had probably my favorite kind of RPG design. An overworld that's fast, simple, and painless to get around in with a minimum of loading screens, and the real gameplay is well designed, engaging, and built on good set pieces with a minimum of random trash encounters. Yeah, looks too depressing and bleak for me. I'll probably give it a pass. If I can't make the world a better place, why am I playing the game (looking at you, Dragon Age)?
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Apr 3, 2019 17:08
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alex314 posted:CP2077 will be more akin to Rockstar style single protagonist game. You'll get to play with other side characters once in a while, but the core will just be V. Of course I expect a lot more choice and consequences compared to completely unimportant choices linear story and in GTA V. It won't scratch the same itch DA or ME game did.. Well that's just the thing, isn't it. For a while no one but BioWare was making BioWare-style RPGs and now not even BioWare is doing that. I feel like there's an opportunity for someone to swoop in and do an updated take on the formula that isn't laden down by all of BioWare's issues
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Apr 3, 2019 17:14
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Skippy McPants posted:Might as well extend this to almost every major game studio. Horrible workplace practices and mismanagement seem to be the industry standard. I'm honestly amazed that good AAA games occasionally get churned out with how dysfunctional the whole edifice is these days. It feels like it makes sense when places like CDPROJEKT or Colossal Studios or whatever come out with amazing stuff and bigger older studios are loving up. New places with new ideals, rather than building it on a foundation of already existing poo poo that's finally snapped after years of getting bigger and worse. It is sort of sad to me though that the article doesn't mention Baldurs Gate even a tiny bit when that's Bioware to me. Pattonesque posted:Well that's just the thing, isn't it. For a while no one but BioWare was making BioWare-style RPGs and now not even BioWare is doing that. I feel like there's an opportunity for someone to swoop in and do an updated take on the formula that isn't laden down by all of BioWare's issues Like Sim City and (potentially) Sims and all sorts of other stuff EA makes and is totally loving up I'm definitely feeling that I miss a proper party based RPG. Sure you can get jRPG games that are like that but the feel of them isn't quite the same. Maybe Paradox can do it after the new Vampire game. Taear fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Apr 3, 2019 |
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Apr 3, 2019 17:15
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alex314 posted:CP2077 will be more akin to Rockstar style single protagonist game. You'll get to play with other side characters once in a while, but the core will just be V. Of course I expect a lot more choice and consequences compared to completely unimportant choices linear story and in GTA V. It won't scratch the same itch DA or ME game did.. you mean...........CP2077 won’t literally cure cancer???
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Apr 3, 2019 17:23
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, looks too depressing and bleak for me. I'll probably give it a pass. If I can't make the world a better place, why am I playing the game (looking at you, Dragon Age)? You are not playing as a zealous crusader out to vanquish evil. Your character is trying to survive in a harsh world but you still can make moralistic choices. The difference between the narrative styles of Bioware and CDPR is that CDPR is more nuanced. You are not the all conquering hero changing the fate of nations and states with a stroke of pen. You get more personal, rich stories and you can change their outcome and make it better, and those decisions sometimes have unintended consequences that can ripple and affect the meta plot in ways that you did not foresee. You can absolutely play as a good person however the "good decisions" that you take might have unintended consequences later on that are far from good.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:28
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Savy Saracen salad posted:You are not playing as a zealous crusader out to vanquish evil. Your character is trying to survive in a harsh world but you still can make moralistic choices. The difference between the narrative styles of Bioware and CDPR is that CDPR is more nuanced. You are not the all conquering hero changing the fate of nations and states with a stroke of pen. You get more personal, rich stories and you can change their outcome and make it better, and those decisions sometimes have unintended consequences that can ripple and affect the meta plot in ways that you did not foresee. You can absolutely play as a good person however the "good decisions" that you take might have unintended consequences later on that are far from good. That's fair, but I don't like that second style of storytelling. I really loving hate it when games go "Oh you picked the nice and idealistic option? Ha ha, you hosed up and made everything worse, you naive fool."
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Apr 3, 2019 17:31
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The writing for that CP2077 trailer did not instill me with confidence. It sounded like bad Rockstar toughguy dialogue from 2011. The gameplay might be all right.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:32
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Cythereal posted:That's fair, but I don't like that second style of storytelling. That's a fair criticism, and the Witcher definitely has these moments. But it also has moments where you make someone's life genuinely better, in a way that not even Bioware game has ever managed even. If you go "too" bleak then I think you're right in that nothing feels satisfying. I think W3 does a really good job of walking the line between a bleak world, but full of hopeful and positive people who are lighthearted and well written. Witchers getting drunk is also the best quest in any game ever. All that said, I don't want to seem like i'm trying to convince you to play it. It's good, but if the more cynical style of storytelling isn't your thing, you definitely won't enjoy it. Witcher takes a lot more from Fallout (the originals) and Planescape than any Bioware style RPG.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:36
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chaosapiant posted:That's a fair criticism, and the Witcher definitely has these moments. But it also has moments where you make someone's life genuinely better, in a way that not Bioware game has ever managed even. If you go "too" bleak then I think you're right in that nothing feels satisfying. I think W3 does a really good job of walking the line between a bleak world, but full of hopeful and positive people who are lighthearted and well written. Witchers getting drunk is also the best quest in any game ever. My central problems with W3 are more disliking open world games and I don't like Geralt as the protagonist. DAO was probably the game that catalyzed my bitterness with games wanting to be dark and edgy. I finished DAO originally satisfied that I'd made a ton of difference to make this bleak and dark world a much better place. Then the sequel came along and told me I hosed up or simply had more terrible poo poo happen to override almost every good thing I'd done. Modern games trying to be dark, edgy, and bleak can go gently caress themselves. I get enough of that poo poo in real life.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:39
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Cythereal posted:My central problems with W3 are more disliking open world games and I don't like Geralt as the protagonist. Witcher is never dark for the sake of darkness. If anything it feels more like just a real medieval world - and I don't feel like the bad choices are punishing me either. I'd say that the Harrowmont option in Dragon Age: Origins is "you felt you were doing the right thing and got hosed, psyche!!" as an option in a way nothing the Witcher ever does. And yes I know that Harrowmont is portrayed as a big ol' conservative but Bhelen is absolutely evil and tried to murder you if you're a Dwarf Noble. It's a decent idea of a choice and it makes sense after the fact - but with Witcher choices felt more real than that black/white level.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:52
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I hate to harp on it, but yea, DA:O is grim for the sake of being grim. Witcher doesn't come across that way at all. It's actually quite hopeful. It's just that the world happens to be a lovely place. But it never comes across as trying to be edgy. I think a large part of that is being based on an actual series of novels, but either way, Witcher is a lot more sincere than Dragon Age. And that's not meant to be a knock against DA. I love the DA series, including 2. But the tone isn't even remotely the same.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:57
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Cythereal posted:That's fair, but I don't like that second style of storytelling. It is hard to speak about the game because it is not even out yet, but judging from their previous work, the decisions will be much more nuanced than "you made an idealistic choice = hahaha fool" because there will be no idealistic choices. You will be given a multitude of less than idealistic choices and weighting those options based upon your understanding of the personality/history/events that lead to those choices being present. It is not however good = bad and bad = good. You can absolutely finish quests with genuine heartfelt moments . The game still does not have a release date so I would say keep an open mind and wait and see.
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Apr 3, 2019 17:58
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Savy Saracen salad posted:It is hard to speak about the game because it is not even out yet, but judging from their previous work, the decisions will be much more nuanced than "you made an idealistic choice = hahaha fool" because there will be no idealistic choices. You will be given a multitude of less than idealistic choices and weighting those options based upon your understanding of the personality/history/events that lead to those choices being present. It is not however good = bad and bad = good. You can absolutely finish quests with genuine heartfelt moments . The game still does not have a release date so I would say keep an open mind and wait and see. I intend to follow the game, but I'm not optimistic. chaosapiant posted:I hate to harp on it, but yea, DA:O is grim for the sake of being grim. Witcher doesn't come across that way at all. It's actually quite hopeful. It's just that the world happens to be a lovely place. But it never comes across as trying to be edgy. I think a large part of that is being based on an actual series of novels, but either way, Witcher is a lot more sincere than Dragon Age. And that's not meant to be a knock against DA. I love the DA series, including 2. But the tone isn't even remotely the same. Good for them. I still don't like the Witcher games and won't play them. Get rid of Geralt and open world design and I may give them a more serious look.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:00
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Cythereal posted:I intend to follow the game, but I'm not optimistic. Cythereal one last thing I would add is that if Bhelen Vs Harrowment quest was done CDPR style, then you would explore why Bhelen is acting the way he is. Was is a bad childhood? A feeling of neglect? etc CDPR is at the top when it comes to personal stories and explaining why characters act the way they do. It won't be simply because he is power hungry. And most importantly , a major theme that will be explored is such a character, someone whom killed his siblings, can he be redeemed? Or is he beyond redemption ? Bhelen being redeemed or not, or getting his just desserts will all depend on your choice.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:10
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Cythereal one last thing I would add is that if Bhelen Vs Harrowment quest was done CDPR style, then you would explore why Bhelen is acting the way he is. Was is a bad childhood? A feeling of neglect? etc CDPR is at the top when it comes to personal stories and explaining why characters act the way they do. It won't be simply because he is power hungry. And most importantly , a major theme that will be explored is such a character, someone whom killed his siblings, can he be redeemed? Or is he beyond redemption ? Bhelen being redeemed or not, or getting his just desserts will all depend on your choice. None of that interests me. I don't always want a hundred pages of backstory for a character, and I think Orzammar is where DAO's writing is generally at its strongest. Orazmmar works for me because it's a clearly communicated struggle between tradition and change, given a layer of obfuscation because the face of dying tradition is a nice guy and the face of the change Orazmmar needs to survive is an rear end in a top hat. I don't need to know about Bhelen's daddy issues or Harrowmount's dead cat or whatever, and more  are not always better.There's an art to knowing when more is better and when brevity better serves the narrative and flow of gameplay. Sometimes that kind of exposition can be good and make a seemingly simple conflict much more ambiguous (Cailan vs Loghain is a good example, the game presents enough evidence to make a drat good argument that Cailan was a disaster of a king however personable and idealistic he was to the PC). Sometimes it just drags things out unnecessarily (Starkid in ME3). It's a narrative version of why I don't like open world games and prefer a more carefully crafted experience built on set pieces - but without going to the other extreme like JRPGs where you have a preset character and no say in what your character does. It's a tricky balancing act, one that Bioware's sometimes done very well (KOTOR, Jade Empire, Baldur's Gate, DAO, ME1, ME2, hell I'd argue ME3 outside the first and last ten minutes) and sometimes very badly (DAI, Andromeda, Anthem, TOR). I think the best RPG experience I've had in the last twenty years that wasn't by Bioware was Shadowrun: Dragonfall. I'll evaluate CDPR on a case by case basis. I bought Witcher 1 and didn't like it. I did not buy Witcher 2 or 3. I may or may not buy Cyberpunk 2077, but what I've seen says it's not a game that fits my taste.
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Apr 3, 2019 18:24
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alex314 posted:CP2077 will be more akin to Rockstar style single protagonist game. You'll get to play with other side characters once in a while, but the core will just be V. Of course I expect a lot more choice and consequences compared to completely unimportant choices linear story and in GTA V. It won't scratch the same itch DA or ME game did.. I don't...think so? Like at all? Yeah it takes place in a city and you have a car but it's way more akin to a Deus Ex type (FPS with RPG skill trees, leveled loot and different plot options) than anything Rockstar has ever really done. Also you can be a cool lesbian in it so Cythereal I'm sorry to say but you're obligated to play it now, sorry
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Apr 3, 2019 18:25
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