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So is Spider-Man: Far From Home going to grapple with Peter losing five years of his life or are they just going to ignore that
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Apr 27, 2019 02:29
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Tart Kitty posted:Live footage of trying to write time travel into a script: Extremely weird that people are trying to throw the whole time-travel genre under the bus, like nobody’s seen Groundhog Day, The Terminator, The Matrix, etc.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:29
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SMG, I feel like this whole discussion will probably be flagged as a general spoiler. The Terminator and Groundhog Day are exceptions. By a wide margin. EDIT: To expand, most time travel movies don't consider the collateral damage of causality. There's a problem, you go back in time and solve it. Rarely does a film actually engage with the idea that creating an alternate timeline essentially dooms an entire other timeline of people to a lesser fate. Groundhog Day is limited in scope enough that it doesn't actually invite that conversation. The Terminator, in a somewhat similar way, has a very A-to-B narrative focus. If the Terminator doesn't kill Sarah Conner, humans win the war (which itself is arguable in practice). Most other films that deal with time travel go too broad and raise more questions than the narrative can provide answers for. And I mean that in a strictly successful storytelling way. Tart Kitty fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 02:31
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Just Chamber posted:Agree in a sense that yes you could skip a few films that it just references such as say Dr Strange or Black Panther, because yes you can hand wave them as more world building than anything but I'd say this franchise has very much been about 3 characters: Thor, Iron Man and Captain America and those characters all grow and change in both their individual movies and the events of the main Avengers flicks so there's at least say 13 films which all lead to the conclusion of their character arcs in Endgame. They are who they are and make their decisions because of those experiences we've witnessed them go through. Like whenever Iron man and Captain America interacted in this film you felt that bitterness and the respect and even the love they had for each and that's based on all of those character moments they've had together and apart in the previous movies. Some of the characterization holds, but not all of it. Iron Man 2 is large ignored. You can totally skip Iron Man 3 because of what Avengers 2 does to his character. Thor 2 doesn't matter at all for later movies. Thor 3 is almost skippable because of how fast Infinity Wars reverses his character development from that movie. You shouldn't skip Thor 3 and Iron Man 3, because they are some of the best movies in the MCU. But they don't really flow into the characterization in the grand finale.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:31
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:The Ring would corrupt the Eagles, just as it corrupted the Goatman. tie a rope to the ring and have the eagles carry the rope
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Apr 27, 2019 02:35
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The One Ring is shown to call to and corrupt people even before they touch it. It's magic. About Iron Man 23 or whatever, how does it look compared to other MCU films? Still poo poo or has it improved?
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Apr 27, 2019 02:38
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Hey guys, just saw Endgame yesterday! So, what's going on in this...? Movie: Messing with the timeline is dangerous. Goons: Captain America should've messed with the timeline to correct wrongs! Not just to get his happy ending! 
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Apr 27, 2019 02:39
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garycoleisgod posted:Maybe I'm reading all these spoilers wrong but am I correct in assuming That they say they bring back the snapped heroes and it's five years later, but these unsnapped people are back from their point of view like they never left (and I'm assuming all the ordinary people in the galaxy got unsnapped as well, because JESUS CHRIST if not), doesn't that mean that all the returned people are five years younger than their friends. Like Spider-Man is now five years behind all the people in his class who didn't turn to dust? Not really because half the universe was killed by Thanos. So that means half came back. It's a huge chunk, so it's not like they're going to feel like misfits for being left behind.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:40
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Tart Kitty posted:The Terminator and Groundhog Day are exceptions. By a wide margin. Terminator 1 is a perfectly closed grandfather paradox. Kyle creates John and T800 crates Skynet. Bill and Ted 1 Bill and Ted 2 Star Trek 4 Somewhere in Time Interstellar Harry Potter 3 Arrival Edge of Tomorrow
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Apr 27, 2019 02:42
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CharlestonJew posted:tie a rope to the ring and have the eagles carry the rope Ring will cause the rope to break. It has causal manipulation to get back to Sauron when it doesn't have a strong bearer countering that.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:43
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Darko posted:Terminator 1 is a perfectly closed grandfather paradox. Kyle creates John and T800 crates Skynet. I'll give you Arrival, and add Primer to the list. My original post wasn't a condemnation of the subgenre; I just think it's probably the trickiest possible thing to write, especially when you're faced with a runtime constraint. Branching timelines and alternate versions of characters is like, a total narrative juggle act. And it feels like like there are more drops than catches when it comes to building a plot around it
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Apr 27, 2019 02:47
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Gianthogweed posted:Not really because half the universe was killed by Thanos. So that means half came back. It's a huge chunk, so it's not like they're going to feel like misfits for being left behind. Let's try a thought experiment Your significant other turns to dust in front of you, along with half the world. You struggle to move on and after years, find a new spouse. You have a child together. Then one day five years later your original partner reappears and to them no time has passed. What is your and their reaction? Apply this to all the other people in the universe as well. What about a returned person who cannot reconnect with loved ones because they committed suicide out of grief/despair?
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Apr 27, 2019 02:48
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Darko posted:Ring will cause the rope to break. It has causal manipulation to get back to Sauron when it doesn't have a strong bearer countering that. have the elves make a really strong rope
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Apr 27, 2019 02:50
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Tart Kitty posted:I'll give you Arrival, and add Primer to the list. As I stated before, Bill and Ted have mastered the grandfather paradox by solving situations by simply remembering to give yourself the thing that will fix the situation. It does almost better than any single timeline movie with the absolute power causal paradoxes would give you, and might be the best written time travel movie Ive seen (because its so simple). Interstellar also has a perfectly closed couple of paradoxes with the only caveat being that only gravity can pass backwards through time. Edge of Tomorrow expands on what Groundhog Day does and adds an extra layer of drama by having the time invincibility removed for the final act.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:54
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Gonna be honest... I would have preferred a "reset button" ending where they were able to somehow reset the stage to pre-snap. Would have made the universe a much tidier place for upcoming films and been a heck of a lot easier to answer the dumb questions
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Apr 27, 2019 02:55
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garycoleisgod posted:Let's try a thought experiment Your significant other turns to dust in front of you, along with half the world. You struggle to move on and after years, find a new spouse. You have a child together. Then one day five years later your original partner reappears and to them no time has passed. This is the reaction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8cN6wZFDA8
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Apr 27, 2019 02:56
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Tart Kitty posted:Live footage of trying to write time travel into a script: What does the guy walking by without caring represent?
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Apr 27, 2019 02:56
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Me.
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Apr 27, 2019 02:57
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got any sevens posted:What does the guy walking by without caring represent? Kang, maybe?
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Apr 27, 2019 03:00
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This is some of the most weak-rear end gatekeeping I've ever seen.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:05
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Kal-L posted:Hey guys, just saw Endgame yesterday! So, what's going on in this...? The Avengers had no regard for keeping the integrity of all the alternate timelines they jumped into intact, they changed so much poo poo lol.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:07
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Dren posted:one thing is for sure, the movie did not give a poo poo about making the time travel stuff make sense or exploring the consequences of branching timelines or whether there even were any branching timelines This is completely wrong.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:09
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A whole bunch of you need to actually go see the movie before commenting on it lol.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:09
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Can we atleast agree that for the most part, they nailed it?
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Apr 27, 2019 03:10
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The Glumslinger posted:Can we atleast agree that for the most part, they nailed it? Absolutely not.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:12
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I would have preferred if Phase whatever this is was a few split up single movies of them loving up universes in trying to get a gem so the implications could be fully explored, with a final showdown movie after this was done as opposed to what we got.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:13
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The Glumslinger posted:Can we atleast agree that for the most part, they nailed it? It's a fitting capstone to the Infinity Saga, I agree. It contains the best parts and worst parts of what the MCU has to offer. But GAT DAM does it have a lot of spirit that forces you to be entertained through sheer will with all its crowdpleasers and fanservice, enough to give the worst parts of the film a pass. [edit] Still not the best MCU film though. I'd put it on par with like GOTG and Ragnarok for me. teagone fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 03:13
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golden bubble posted:Some of the characterization holds, but not all of it. Iron Man 2 is large ignored. You can totally skip Iron Man 3 because of what Avengers 2 does to his character. Thor 2 doesn't matter at all for later movies. Thor 3 is almost skippable because of how fast Infinity Wars reverses his character development from that movie. Thor 2 "matters" more than Thor 3 for Endgame, which I really didn't expect.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:16
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Thor 2 "matters" more than Thor 3 for Endgame, which I really didn't expect. Yeah, that's true. But gently caress having to revisit that movie again.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:18
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Darko posted:I would have preferred if Phase whatever this is was a few split up single movies of them loving up universes in trying to get a gem so the implications could be fully explored, with a final showdown movie after this was done as opposed to what we got. lol this is a terrible idea.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:20
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I said come in! posted:lol this is a terrible idea. Its better than what we got. I'd rather have one Gunn or Waititi film breaching that subject with a couple of other mediocre ones that I can ignore than this thing.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:24
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10 movie condensed version of the Infinity Saga that I think has a clear enough narrative through-line that can be watched by anyone going in cold. Swapped a few chronologically (by release date) that I think would make the story flow a bit better. Avengers Thor 2 Winter Soldier Age of Ultron Civil War Doctor Strange Guardians of the Galaxy Ragnarok Infinity War Endgame
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Apr 27, 2019 03:28
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Tunicate posted:did they really need to grab all the stones? Couldn't they just grab the timestone and un-destroy the other ones? they already did that before You've got a good point there. It's possible that it has a very localized effect, just like the mind stone had to be in the immediate vicinity to affect someone's mind. Thus, unless they got it to just after Thanos destroyed the stones, they couldn't bring them back. Of course, that begs the question of why couldn't they just get the time stone and then take one trip back to that planet he was on just after that energy surge, with additional safeguards to make sure he couldn't beat them sans stones? I think it was pretty epic and had a lot of good scenes. I literally whispered to my wife "he looks like the Big Liebowski!" when Thor was walking by with his sunglasses and then immediately Stark called him the Big Liebowski. Also, I called it when Black Widow and Hawkeye headed for Vormir - they had glossed over Vormir and past interactions (none) with the soul stone, but I knew Red Skull would still be there and a sacrifice would still be required at the earlier time with two best friends conveniently being the ones to retrieve it. I think most time travel irregularities are covered or could be explained away without breaking the movie. Someone brought up a good point about the upcoming disconnect between people who survived the snap vs. people who were effectively in stasis for five years. They touched on the emotional toll in the counseling session, but much of it still applies. While I'd assume the 'wisdom' (space magic) of the stones could correctly place people in a safe position, like if they were in an airplane, put them on the ground in a familiar area, there would still have been some deaths due to critical people like pilots or medical personnel going missing at the wrong instant. My big question is this: Was this really the best outcome out of over 14 million possibilities? I guess it kind of makes me question the purpose of the battle on Titan. Strange handed the stone to Thanos because this resulted in the outcome we apparently see in Endgame. Could he have just kept the stone hidden in the mystical arts realm away from Thanos, or alternatively had adjusted the battle on Titan slightly differently so that Starlord didn't mouth off to Thanos? I get that Thanos was powerful, but they almost had him a couple times in spite of the stones and easily dispatched him at the beginning of Endgame when he was without them. Without the Maw, what could he have done if Strange had just kept the stone hidden in another reality? Yeah, Stark would die, but I think it's established there were many other indirect deaths and suffering regardless - and Stark did die in several years anyway, not sure if him having a family was worth all the other suffering. It seemed like they were pointing towards more dire threats to come, but what we saw in Endgame was a convoluted (albeit effective) way to stop Thanos. If he hadn't gotten the time stone, would he have launched a massive attack on the universe irreversibly killing more people than the collateral from the snap? If Starlord had been hushed or the Titan battle had been manipulated slightly to favor them, they wouldn't even need to risk having him go on a rampage with 4 or 5 stones. The only benefit I can think of in this scenario is that all the stones are destroyed in the future. However, people could still go back in time and get them from other loops, so the issue of a snap still occurring in the future isn't ended. Maybe it was Strange's way of cultivating a grateful universe? It just seems odd, maybe a couple extra lines between him and Stark at the end could have cleared it up.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:28
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Just had a thought about the end: the old Steve we see isn't the same Steve that went back in time. That's the Steve from another timeline over, who had gone back to live with this timeline's Peggy. It's just an unending line of Steve's hopping to the next universe over.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:33
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Darko posted:Its better than what we got. lol your terrible fan fiction is not better than what we got. Stick to talking about the actual film we got, there's plenty of other sites out there to post your MCU fanfic.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:37
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teagone posted:The Avengers had no regard for keeping the integrity of all the alternate timelines they jumped into intact, they changed so much poo poo lol. At least in one of the three timelines (maybe four counting the additional Stark/Cap split to 1970?) there is no Thanos any more prior to the events of GotG, so there's that going for them. I could imagine in the Loki one, some Hydra people go up to that Steve at some point and say "Hail Hydra" and he's like "What..?" That could be a hilarious movie or short in and of itself.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:40
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As Nero Danced posted:Just had a thought about the end: the old Steve we see isn't the same Steve that went back in time. That's the Steve from another timeline over, who had gone back to live with this timeline's Peggy. It's just an unending line of Steve's hopping to the next universe over. Different timeline Steve would never have met Falcon, they meet in Winter Soldier I just realized Falcon saying "On your left" when they come though the portals is a call back to when they met jogging. Guze fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Apr 27, 2019 |
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Apr 27, 2019 03:41
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Guze posted:Different timeline Steve would never have met Falcon, they meet in Winter Soldier Yeah it was a really sweet moment that perfectly foiled against the "Steve Rogers stands alone" moment" with the amazing cinematography
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Apr 27, 2019 03:46
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Can we just stop tagging things? I get that not everyone's watched the movie yet but if you care about spoilers for Avengers: Endgame you should maybe avoid reading the thread dedicated to discussing Avengers: Endgame.Jolly Jumbuck posted:My big question is this: Was this really the best outcome out of over 14 million possibilities? I guess it kind of makes me question the purpose of the battle on Titan. Strange handed the stone to Thanos because this resulted in the outcome we apparently see in Endgame. Could he have just kept the stone hidden in the mystical arts realm away from Thanos, or alternatively had adjusted the battle on Titan slightly differently so that Starlord didn't mouth off to Thanos? I get that Thanos was powerful, but they almost had him a couple times in spite of the stones and easily dispatched him at the beginning of Endgame when he was without them. Without the Maw, what could he have done if Strange had just kept the stone hidden in another reality? Yeah, Stark would die, but I think it's established there were many other indirect deaths and suffering regardless - and Stark did die in several years anyway, not sure if him having a family was worth all the other suffering. teagone posted:The Avengers had no regard for keeping the integrity of all the alternate timelines they jumped into intact, they changed so much poo poo lol.
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Apr 27, 2019 03:48
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Also someone in the back of my theater yelled out spoilers during quiet moments in the first few minutes and I was annoyed but a kid near me was really heartbroken to have the movie spoiled 
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Apr 27, 2019 03:49
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