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fatherboxx posted:Having "ecoterrorists" as villains in 2019 is just irresponsible, we are not in the 90s anymore, Tom Clancy has been dead for some time already. But hey we need to use Ospreys so the military is incompetent but not THAT incompetent this time, support the troops!1 This was part of my problem too. The first film was from the point of view of one character who happened to be military (and who were ineffectual). This had way too much military "check out all these cool toys" poo poo. And yeah, having ecoterrorists is such an outdated boogeyman, doubly so that we're a decade away from poo poo going bad. I also wish they'd move away from that "alpha" nonsense too. The guy who originally presented it debunked it years ago. As it turns out, the "alpha" of a pack tends to be the parent of the rest of them.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:00
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The worst part of the ecological message is it felt so hard to ever tell what the grounding of the movie was. Like she talked about the monsters needing to destroy to heal the environment and it sounds like just "kill all humans" type stuff but no, the monsters actually have supernatural life beams coming out of them as shown in the end credits. And like, her environmental slide show, it's hard to tell if she is talking about the real threats of environmental issues and war as they exist in our world or if she is very literally talking about a more fantastical crisis. Like it felt sort of unclear if she actually had knowledge that a factual end of all things was happening immediately and knew the monsters were the supernatural cure, or if like, she was just thanos and then lucked out the monsters had feet that could fix coral. Like was she using monster release as just a gun to kill people with or did she actually have an actual non villainous plan (that still required sacrifice)
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Jun 5, 2019 15:14
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Ghidorah is the Enchantress not. She at least targeted the US military first and foremost - the biggest polluter on the planet. Kind of funny that the one organization murdering the planet's ecosystem is supposed to be Godzilla's support.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:24
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Isn't the US military only collaborating with films that portray it in a good light?
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Jun 5, 2019 15:27
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Jimbot posted:I also wish they'd move away from that "alpha" nonsense too. The guy who originally presented it debunked it years ago. As it turns out, the "alpha" of a pack tends to be the parent of the rest of them. Whatever the actual science of that (would take five more years to make hack screenwriters forget anyway), it is such boring mcguffin-oriented crap. Both How To Train Your Dragon sequels used it and all it does is making cool creatures look like a ball in a game.
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Jun 5, 2019 15:43
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...You guys realize MONARCH is not a US Military institution right? Like They had a loving meeting about that. There was a whole senate hearing about if MONARCH should remain an independent group or not. Also that the only thing the US military actually manages to do in the movie besides die is nearly kill Godzilla, stopping him from killing Ghidorah Right?
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Jun 5, 2019 16:53
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Monarch has military backing. Barnes and the other soldiers are definitely us military and the Argo has a USS designation. It's more like a joint cooperation though rather than the military having full authority.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:00
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The worst part of the ecological message is it felt so hard to ever tell what the grounding of the movie was. Like she talked about the monsters needing to destroy to heal the environment and it sounds like just "kill all humans" type stuff but no, the monsters actually have supernatural life beams coming out of them as shown in the end credits. And like, her environmental slide show, it's hard to tell if she is talking about the real threats of environmental issues and war as they exist in our world or if she is very literally talking about a more fantastical crisis. I think she cites a number of real world ecological issues as waking up the monsters. In those terms the metaphor is that the monsters are representative of all the real-world repercussions that climate change will bring in. The metaphor doesn't stand up to complete scrutiny with some monsters being bad, and others good, and one from space etc, but I think it ties into Yamane's speech at the end of the 54 film, where he says that "more Godzillas will come". The term "Godzillas" there is, to me, referring to any monstrous disaster whether it be giant dinosaur or freak weather event etc that threatens to hurt people. I also think her viewpoint is dealt with sympathy, even those it's callous and stupid, with bad repercussions. She is right that humanity has brought themselves to the point of extinction and she is also right that the single most corrosive and destructive force on earth is the human race. The film does make a point of showing this. But she is wrong, and the film condemns her as such, to decide who are the ones to be punished. She's evil and selfish in the sense that she sits in a safe bunker and lets people in populated areas get wiped out all for the "greater good". Basically her findings are correct, but her decision on what to do about it is wrong.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:05
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SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SCROLL PAST IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE Mike D confirms that Mothra's death powered up Godzilla's super-critical blast wave and showed some cool stills https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1136254524388184064
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Jun 5, 2019 17:35
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Karloff posted:But she is wrong, and the film condemns her as such, to decide who are the ones to be punished. She's evil and selfish in the sense that she sits in a safe bunker and lets people in populated areas get wiped out all for the "greater good". Basically her findings are correct, but her decision on what to do about it is wrong. I don't agree that the film condemns her. Her actions directly end global warming/restore the eco-system/bring man into balance with nature etc etc, so her decisions are completely correct. She doesn't die because she was wrong to wake the titans, but because she was overly sentimental about how the eco-system would be restored. (That is, she's ultimately acting as a mother on behalf of her family, rather than acting as a "mother earth" unreservedly on behalf of the planet.) Jonah, in comparison, isn't confused by human concerns and is able to devote himself to the pro-titan pro-planet cause without bias. He accomplishes everything he set out to do and survives. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 5, 2019 |
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Jun 5, 2019 17:44
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But she also causes the deaths of millions of people. People just like her child, a contradiction the film brings up. And without the interference of her daughter and Godzilla she would have wiped out 100% humanity and probably all life on earth, because she had the bright idea to wake up King Ghidorah without fully knowing what it was and what it could do. Her arc in the end is about realising how badly she hosed up, and sacrificing herself to correct it.
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Jun 5, 2019 17:48
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https://twitter.com/mike_dougherty?lang=es Seriously he's just going on a tear explaining things and doing a Q and A and it's really cool
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Jun 5, 2019 17:51
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Always a good sign when the writer has to explain a major event after the fact.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:00
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Ben Nerevarine posted:Always a good sign when the writer has to explain a major event after the fact. Yeah if he was covering actual plot points that would be an issue wouldn't it Instead of touching on neat little easter eggs and things that are easily missed apparently
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Jun 5, 2019 18:02
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People who don’t like this movie are crazier than Vera Farmiga’s character.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:07
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You're right, the method of defeating the movie's antagonist isn't at all a major plot point
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Jun 5, 2019 18:08
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Karloff posted:But she also causes the deaths of millions of people. People just like her child, a contradiction the film brings up. And without the interference of her daughter and Godzilla she would have wiped out 100% humanity and probably all life on earth, because she had the bright idea to wake up King Ghidorah without fully knowing what it was and what it could do. It really depends if her slideshow showing all life on earth ending within a few years was factually true in the fantastical science of the godzilla universe or not. Like if the slide showing the whole earth a desert with no multicellular life in a few years and the only cure was controlled release of the titans that release their healing waves then her plan is really different than if pollution works the way it works on our planet and if her understanding was just dinosaurs would crush people and make less pollution because everyone died.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:15
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CelticPredator posted:People who don’t like this movie are crazier than Vera Farmiga’s character. And about as bad at explaining themselves!
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Jun 5, 2019 18:25
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Arcsquad12 posted:Monarch has military backing. Barnes and the other soldiers are definitely us military and the Argo has a USS designation. It's more like a joint cooperation though rather than the military having full authority. It also hints that some of the questions at the congressional meeting are a farce. Monarch leaves their super-secret titan location map up all the time when meeting with Barnes and the other soldiers with clear US military tags. It appears Monarch doesn't care if Barnes sees the map, which suggests Barnes already knows how many titans have been found and all their locations.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:29
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Ben Nerevarine posted:You're right, the method of defeating the movie's antagonist isn't at all a major plot point That was perfectly clear, people just weren't paying attention. The giant flaming moth wings and her roar crying out every time he unleashed the power should have been a hint.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:33
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Guy A. Person posted:And about as bad at explaining themselves! I haven't been keeping up with the thread but my issue is pretty simple, and I posted it on Saturday after I saw the movie. The scenes centering around the humans had to do double duty; they have to lay out(and then regularly update)the situation with Monarch tracking the monsters, AND the personal tragedy/divorce storyline. As a result those scenes feel artificial and exposition heavy, because there just wasn't a second to waste. Every line has to deliver some crucial plot information and there's no room for genuine, natural feeling dialogue. And it extends past the dialogue and into the actual situations being presented in the movie, the biggest one being the presence of Millie Bobby Brown. They obviously wanted her involved in every scene they could possibly get her into and the family drama stuff helps justify that, but it feels very forced. Like, right away in the first few minutes I'm sitting there thinking to myself "wait a second, why is Monarch cool with one of their scientists' teenage daughters just hanging out in one of their secret facilities?" It felt like her presence in a lot of those scenes was just a requirement that they then built the script around after the fact.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:37
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Burkion posted:That was perfectly clear, people just weren't paying attention. I honestly was marking out too bad to notice, but here's the thing: they had a second explanation of him going "super-critical" on a countdown timer so it didn't really matter at all.
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Jun 5, 2019 18:51
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Without Mothra I think he would've gone off like a Warhammer WMD, obliterating everything in the area and beyond except maybe Ghidorah.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:10
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Shoutout to all the scriptwriters who put adult Mothra in Godzilla movies knowing they'll probably kill her off by the end.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:The worst part of the ecological message is it felt so hard to ever tell what the grounding of the movie was. Like she talked about the monsters needing to destroy to heal the environment and it sounds like just "kill all humans" type stuff but no, the monsters actually have supernatural life beams coming out of them as shown in the end credits. And like, her environmental slide show, it's hard to tell if she is talking about the real threats of environmental issues and war as they exist in our world or if she is very literally talking about a more fantastical crisis. Ehh, her reasoning is explained in the movie. After the battle from G2014, the residual radiation caused a quick regrowth of wild nature as also seen in the newsheadlines at the end. It's not some quacky leap of faith as you seem to think. Admittedly they don't portray her very well but that's a different issue.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:36
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They literally show the ruins of San Francisco turning into a full-on arboreal forest in 5 years, how are people missing this?
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Jun 5, 2019 19:40
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https://twitter.com/crispyfrites/status/1135873349559627779 Nice to see Mothra getting some love again
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Jun 5, 2019 19:51
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No worries, I was mostly just building off CP's joke while also ribbing the movie a bit myself (by saying the character's explanation was bad). I think there's definitely been some well warranted criticism.
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Jun 5, 2019 20:08
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https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1136331363777425408
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Jun 5, 2019 20:34
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:They literally show the ruins of San Francisco turning into a full-on arboreal forest in 5 years, how are people missing this? Skimming through the reactions in this thread, there's a lot of info people missed or ignored and complain about. Does anyone remember the email that MBB wrote in the beginning? I can't remember exactly but it said something like "I'm worry about mom" right?
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Jun 5, 2019 21:25
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I like all the Mothra scenes. And her creature design was beautiful. I want a big-budget Hollywood Mothra movie basically. With more Zhang Ziyi 
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Jun 5, 2019 22:06
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What was the best Godzilla movie with aliens scheming to take over Earth? I'm gonna say Invasion of Astro-Monster/Monster Zero.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:00
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sean10mm posted:What was the best Godzilla movie with aliens scheming to take over Earth? Absolutely Monster Zero.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:04
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https://gizmodo.com/why-frogs-love-to-lay-their-eggs-in-elephant-footprints-1835271432 This Gizmodo article about frogs laying eggs in elephant tracks reminded me a lot of the environmental effects of the Kaiju. In a lot of ways, the Elephants are Kaiju sized compared to a lot of the animals they affect in their environments, so it kind of makes a similar sense. Why Frogs Love to Lay Their Eggs in Elephant Footprints posted:Elephants, through their trampling, foraging, and pooping, exert a large environmental footprint—both literally and figuratively—on the landscape. These elephantine effects aren’t subtle, leading to the term “ecosystem engineering” to describe their influence on the environment.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:05
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Back to the bad science about 'alphas': It's there as a cinematic parallel for the bad political science about 'kings'.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:08
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Currently watching Mothra, and are the actors in "blackface" or whatever you want to call it supposed to represent a certain group of people, or is it just general take on how civilized cultures tend to rape and pillage more simple cultures and people?
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Jun 5, 2019 23:21
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Japan has never been known to be very sensitive about racist things such as blackface tbh. At the same time, the 1990 Tom Hanks movie Joe Vs. The Volcano did the same thing. It's all pretty lovely.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:39
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s.i.r.e. posted:Currently watching Mothra, and are the actors in "blackface" or whatever you want to call it supposed to represent a certain group of people, or is it just general take on how civilized cultures tend to rape and pillage more simple cultures and people? Oh boy So let me introduce you to Japan Is Really Racist Against Other Asian People, Especially Islanders You'll see this crop up...a few times. (Stares at King Kong VS Godzilla) https://twitter.com/katillustration/status/1136312526193418240?s=21 On the plus side I want this to continue forever
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Jun 5, 2019 23:41
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Mothra/Godzilla is certainly more wholesome than Muto/Godzilla ending in an atomic decapitation
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Jun 5, 2019 23:47
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Burkion posted:https://twitter.com/katillustration/status/1136312526193418240?s=21 Biollante is Godzilla's sister, right? Lol.
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Jun 5, 2019 23:52
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