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A lot of the unity trees are badly done because they're extremely time dependent. Anything that affects anomaly spawns is good in the first hundred years and useless after. Same with colony development speed/extra starting pop. Conversely stuff like supremacy is useless in the early game (baring extremely niche scenarios in very crowded galaxies), but extremely important later. Braindead choices like that are bad. In general you should want to avoid effects that are only useful at certain points in the game.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:49
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Nuclearmonkee posted:the adoption effect should be anomaly discovery chance
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Jun 11, 2019 17:50
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Chomp8645 posted:A lot of the unity trees are badly done because they're extremely time dependent. Anything that affects anomaly spawns is good in the first hundred years and useless after. Same with colony development speed/extra starting pop. Conversely stuff like supremacy is useless in the early game (baring extremely niche scenarios in very crowded galaxies), but extremely important later. In general this is true but supremacy is a very strong first pick if your intent from game start is to kill someone within 20 years. If you stack purifier/swarm/exterminator bonuses, militarist bonus, and maybe distinguished admiralty on top of no retreat you can obliterate a neighbor and steal his homeworld pretty easily. Acquiring a homeworld worth of pops along with the free upgraded station(s) is a huge bonus.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:53
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Splicer posted:no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no It should be something desirable. The existing perk is trash.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:54
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Nuclearmonkee posted:Yeah I pretty much take expansion or supremacy exclusively as a first pick. +1 pop per colony or enabling the theft of other people's pops/planets via war in the first 20 years. Yeah same. Nuclearmonkee posted:It should be something desirable. The existing perk is trash. It should be something, but it shouldn't be that. Otherwise the rule is just "Always open Discovery first no matter what, then do whatever you were going to do anyway".
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Jun 11, 2019 17:57
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I honestly wouldn't mind it if they got rid of the anomaly boosting stuff completely and just raised the chances all around. It sucks to get your first roll of scientists and not getting a discovery one because that means you're going to find a lot of lovely nothing planets for a long time.
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Jun 11, 2019 17:58
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Grapplejack posted:I honestly wouldn't mind it if they got rid of the anomaly boosting stuff completely and just raised the chances all around. It sucks to get your first roll of scientists and not getting a discovery one because that means you're going to find a lot of lovely nothing planets for a long time.  The randomness to anomalies should just be what spawns and where. They already got rid of the idea of failing anomalies because it was stupid. Missing them entirely because you didn't boost your chances to discover them is equally stupid. We're already halfway there, might as well finish the job. Just seed them throughout the galaxy and make them automatically discovered if a science ship makes a pass.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:00
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Nuclearmonkee posted:In general this is true but supremacy is a very strong first pick if your intent from game start is to kill someone within 20 years. If you stack purifier/swarm/exterminator bonuses, militarist bonus, and maybe distinguished admiralty on top of no retreat you can obliterate a neighbor and steal his homeworld pretty easily. Acquiring a homeworld worth of pops along with the free upgraded station(s) is a huge bonus. Yup this is entirely true. I posted about it earlier with a couple of pictures. I started a war in year 6 and completely took over that civ and their 6 systems by year 15. I was a martial empire with distinguished admiralty and popped supremacy first. I'm pretty sure I got the upgrade that boosts starbase damage in the middle of that war too.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:03
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Honestly, they need to get rid of the whole "taking a full tree gets you an ascension perk" and just give you ascension perks based on flat values of Unity. Put them where you want. The set bonus for all 5 traditions should be the reward for completing a group, and it should be a better reward.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:06
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I really wish there were multiple "tiers" of anomalies so you had an excuse to re-scan planets and such to extend the "space is weird" exploration stuff into the mid-game. We already have (mostly useless) science ship upgrades like Curator Archaeology Labs. Let's make them do something great instead.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:06
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Honestly just copy what Civilization does with ruins. Get rid of this chance based anomaly discovery poo poo, and make two tiers of anomalies. The first tier everyone can see as soon as a science ship arrives. The second tier is "hidden" until you complete the Discovery tree, at which point they become visible. You don't need to re-survey, they just appear if you've already surveyed the location in the past. This provides the double benefit of somewhat evening out the anomaly dense early game and anomaly barren mid-late game, as well as giving the Discovery tree a truly unique and worthwhile benefit.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:08
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hosed up that paradox made the game 64 bit but you still can't use 4k cubemaps.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:14
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I still think you guys are really discounting the benefit of unlocking the Discovery tree. It's a 35% bonus to anomaly research speed. That can be really helpful in the early stages of the game. It turns a 600 day hard anomaly into only taking ~400 days which is huge. Even an easy 60 day anomaly drops to like 40 days.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:21
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Chomp8645 posted:
Chomp8645 posted:Honestly just copy what Civilization does with ruins. Get rid of this chance based anomaly discovery poo poo, and make two tiers of anomalies. The first tier everyone can see as soon as a science ship arrives. The second tier is "hidden" until you complete the Discovery tree, at which point they become visible. You don't need to re-survey, they just appear if you've already surveyed the location in the past. Yeah, this is what needs to happen. Anything to keep anomalies relevant into the mid-game. Especially the archaeology stuff seems really interesting and well written, it's a shame that it just dries up after the early game, which is already the super busy part. TMMadman posted:I still think you guys are really discounting the benefit of unlocking the Discovery tree. It's a 35% bonus to anomaly research speed. That can be really helpful in the early stages of the game. It turns a 600 day hard anomaly into only taking ~400 days which is huge. Even an easy 60 day anomaly drops to like 40 days. I just don't understand what that gets me? The extra benefit from getting those resources six months earlier is super marginal next to the bonuses to be had in the other trees (unlike more anomalies overall, which is insanely valuable). Like if you take Supremacy and steal 10 pops from somebody, or take Expansion and just settle a bunch of world for free pops, that's orders of magnitude better. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 18:30
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Grapplejack posted:I honestly wouldn't mind it if they got rid of the anomaly boosting stuff completely and just raised the chances all around. It sucks to get your first roll of scientists and not getting a discovery one because that means you're going to find a lot of lovely nothing planets for a long time. I agree completely. Anything that increases anomaly spawn chance is automatically the best thing you can get early in the game, but useless after a couple of decades. It needs to be removed, and base chance increased a bit to compensate. It would probably also be nice to make more of the interesting anomalies player-only, so that we get to play with them more often. I just got the symbiont anomaly for the first time in months, that's one for example that should be player only, since the AI doesn't (or almost never?) chooses the options to research the symbiont and then apply it species-wide. ConfusedUs posted:I really wish there were multiple "tiers" of anomalies so you had an excuse to re-scan planets and such to extend the "space is weird" exploration stuff into the mid-game. The Curator Archeology Lab tech now gives a flat +2 bonus to archeology skill, which keeps your guys from getting killed as often. If you don't have the DLC, it is the old version which boosts anomaly chance.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:31
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So here's a question: how does everyone deal with empire sprawl. Pretty much every game I start passing it after I get more than a couple colonies. And going over a bit doesn't seem to bad, but in most cases I could easily (but generally don't) expand way more than I do and entirely blow past the limit. Is it enough to just grab a constellationish area, bottle up, and develop? Am I overestimating how big a deal sprawl is?
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Jun 11, 2019 18:36
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Belatedly, people are far too worried about the AI uprising. Synthetic robot servants are the best slaves you can get. Just make the right choices when the event happens. :P Also sprawl is only something you need to worry about if you're deadset on not making any research labs. Look at the tooltip, it just increases unity, research and edict costs. Also ugh, I keep wanting to play but then I remember I don't have the expansion yet (and can't afford it for a little while). I don't want to play without archaeology. Black Pants fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 18:37
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PittTheElder posted:Yeah, this is what needs to happen. Anything to keep anomalies relevant into the mid-game. Especially the archaeology stuff seems really interesting and well written, it's a shame that it just dries up after the early game, which is already the super busy part. Yeah they really dropped the ball on this part. It's not like they're breaking new ground here either, it's a solved issue. Just off the top of my head Civilization and the Endless series already figured it out. Probably others too.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:38
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The Gate posted:So here's a question: how does everyone deal with empire sprawl. Pretty much every game I start passing it after I get more than a couple colonies. And going over a bit doesn't seem to bad, but in most cases I could easily (but generally don't) expand way more than I do and entirely blow past the limit. Is it enough to just grab a constellationish area, bottle up, and develop? Am I overestimating how big a deal sprawl is? Ignore sprawl unless you're playing some super-tall build or, perhaps, a megacorp. In pretty much every other case, the benefits of expansion outweigh the penalties.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:38
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The Gate posted:So here's a question: how does everyone deal with empire sprawl. Pretty much every game I start passing it after I get more than a couple colonies. And going over a bit doesn't seem to bad, but in most cases I could easily (but generally don't) expand way more than I do and entirely blow past the limit. Is it enough to just grab a constellationish area, bottle up, and develop? Am I overestimating how big a deal sprawl is? You are overestimating it hugely. It doesn’t matter, just expand like it’s going out of style unless it actually starts to tank your income (in which case you are probably doing something wrong with your planets and should adjust their production). Benefits of expansion are more resources from stations, more colonies, and more strategic depth, all of which are much more important than the penalties from sprawl.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:41
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The leader costs can get really bad, but that's mostly because I'll try and re-roll scientists to get nothing but Meticulous and Spark of Genius / Maniacal. At some point it starts costing 1.5k energy per, which adds up in a hurry.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:45
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PittTheElder posted:I just don't understand what that gets me? The extra benefit from getting those resources six months earlier is super marginal next to the bonuses to be had in the other trees (unlike more anomalies overall, which is insanely valuable). Like if you take Supremacy and steal 10 pops from somebody, or take Expansion and just settle a bunch of world for free pops, that's orders of magnitude better. Maybe it just depends on your playstyle, but the time saved IS what it gets you and that time is needed at the start of the game. The 20 days saved on an easy anomoly means you're moving to the next object 20 days sooner. I think it's great for the middle difficulty anomalies that you might pass up with low level scientists. But again it might be a playstyle thing because I prefer to have my science ships to do everything possible before moving on to the next system.
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Jun 11, 2019 18:51
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The Gate posted:So here's a question: how does everyone deal with empire sprawl. Don't worry about it unless you plan to run tall. The benefits of expanding outweigh the drawbacks: the sprawl mechanic is intended to give tall players a chance to out tech and consolidate upgrades to maintain some level of parity with wide players. Wide play, however, generally has pop growth advantages and yields reliably stronger economies even despite sprawl penalties.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:00
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The Gate posted:So here's a question: how does everyone deal with empire sprawl. Pretty much every game I start passing it after I get more than a couple colonies. And going over a bit doesn't seem to bad, but in most cases I could easily (but generally don't) expand way more than I do and entirely blow past the limit. Is it enough to just grab a constellationish area, bottle up, and develop? Am I overestimating how big a deal sprawl is? Completely ignore it. TMMadman posted:Maybe it just depends on your playstyle, but the time saved IS what it gets you and that time is needed at the start of the game. The 20 days saved on an easy anomoly means you're moving to the next object 20 days sooner. I think it's great for the middle difficulty anomalies that you might pass up with low level scientists. Yeah I don't do them right away, I'll just pop out an extra science ship later on and research the anomolies once they're in my borders. They're not going anywhere, and exploring to find territory you want to settle towards is far more important.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:12
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TMMadman posted:Maybe it just depends on your playstyle, but the time saved IS what it gets you and that time is needed at the start of the game. The 20 days saved on an easy anomoly means you're moving to the next object 20 days sooner. I think it's great for the middle difficulty anomalies that you might pass up with low level scientists. If my science ships can't keep pace with expansion and my construction ships look like they're going have to wait then I'm going to buy another science ship. Barring that, it generally doesn't matter because the science ship can go ahead and do the anomaly while the construction ship is getting the station set up and building the other resources nodes in the system. Once your science ships get beyond your immediate neighborhood then the time pressure is pretty much non existent since the construction ship(s) will be likely be far behind them. The only time I've had it be an actual problem is when there's a precursor anomaly on a planet that I can't colonize until it's cleared.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:13
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TMMadman posted:But again it might be a playstyle thing because I prefer to have my science ships to do everything possible before moving on to the next system. Yep, definitely a difference in play style. I personally skip almost every single anomaly early on, because I would rather get the systems surveyed so I can claim them, and then I'll come back and research anomalies later once I've run out of systems to survey. Anything on a nearby habitable planet I do as soon as I finish the system it is in, so I can get the planet colonized. In addition, anything that gives a guaranteed L-Gate clue (you can tell by the background picture) I save until after I've found an L-Gate, so I don't waste the clue. If they are the only un-researched anomalies, I just have my scientists assist research until I've started the chain, and then I'll go back and research all of them. There are also a couple that I'll do immediately like the baby amoeba, the terminal orbit, and sometimes the gas giant cruiser (depends upon how long it'll take), but everything else waits for later.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:20
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hobbesmaster posted:A generic machine empire can roll servitor - I saw it happen once. Then either it's been changed or there's more than one event which spawns the uprising, as the one I looked at didn't include the option. I'll take a look on Thursday as I have an all day  PittTheElder posted:Hey DarkRenown, I think something is screwy with the draw weights on upgrades for the Temple line of buildings. Despite having access (and thousands of units of) gas, I didn't roll the first upgrade tech until 2350+, at which point I was already fully Psionic and working on Megastructures in the engineering branch. Huh, will check. binge crotching posted:Darkrenown, two small bug reports for 2.3.1: Thanks! These are the Limbo dudes? Honestly, it's kind of funny when this happens IMO, but perhaps it's gone on for long enough. Ah. Annoying. We optimised planets a bunch for 2.3, but it's caused a fair amount of bugs too. THE loving MOON posted:I looked through the beta patch notes and didn't see anything about the diplomacy distance bug. Has that not been addressed yet, or am I just missing something? It has not. As far as I have found out, it's more of a... sub-optimal change than a bug. It's more that the AI wasn't designed for a life without shackling diplo range penalties, but it should be solved in this round of patches at least. The Bramble posted:How do I modify my science ships to use these cool Curator lab modules I'm researching? Science ships don't appear in my ship designer (I know they used to, many updates ago) so I'm not sure how to proceed. I know the ships auto-magically upgrade as new tech is researched, but examining a ship doesn't show the new purple modules. Science ships, and Constructors, automagically upgrade to the latest tech as you get it. It's not the easiest to see, but if you check the ships's modifiers you should see the details there. ConfusedUs posted:I really wish there were multiple "tiers" of anomalies so you had an excuse to re-scan planets and such to extend the "space is weird" exploration stuff into the mid-game. We've talked about this on and off since Stellaris was in production, the only downside is it's a lot of Content Design work and we're normally tasked out. It would be nice to do a "Distanter stars" pack with Deep-Scanning or something later. Actually as I write this I kind of want to make wormholes start opening all over the place as a mid-game crisis and you gotta probe em to find out WTF is going on (Warp beasts?!?). Related thought: People who have had the Mirror Universe Portal event, have you seen the mirrorverse get overrun? I worry I have made it too uncommon as I pretty much never see it mentioned. Nuclearmonkee posted:*laughs in fanatic purifier* Supremacy first for life. I am mostly just quoting this so it's easy for me to find on Thurs, but I will say XP gain has been bugging me since 2.2 and was finally able to get it proritized. Also + anomaly chance used to be more common, but it was toned back both because it was too good and also because we only have so many possible anomalies before everything is just terraforming candidates (and I hate this system too  )
Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 19:24
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binge crotching posted:Anything on a nearby habitable planet I do as soon as I finish the system it is in, so I can get the planet colonized. In addition, anything that gives a guaranteed L-Gate clue (you can tell by the background picture) I save until after I've found an L-Gate, so I don't waste the clue. If they are the only un-researched anomalies, I just have my scientists assist research until I've started the chain, and then I'll go back and research all of them. Clues should no longer be wasted, cause this bugged the crap out of me too. Instead clues found before you see an L-Gate are (basically) buffered until you do then the correct number of clues are added. If this isn't working, please let me know.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:27
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Darkrenown posted:Related thought: People who have had the Mirror Universe Portal event, have you need the mirrorverse get overrun? I worry I have made it too uncommon as I pretty much never see it mentioned. I've only gotten this specific event a few times (usually it's the null universe or w/e it's called) but I didn't even know they could lose. Most of the time I just get an update letting me know they've had a series of setbacks and sometimes I get free resources. What stuck me as odd though is that whole they could help me I'm never given the opportunity to help them. Seems rather rude to just mooch of my mirror universe self like that.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:28
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I've only gotten this specific event a few times (usually it's the null universe or w/e it's called) but I didn't even know they could lose. Most of the time I just get an update letting me know they've had a series of setbacks and sometimes I get free resources. They benefit from your trade too - when they are doing well it cites your economy as a contributor. I could give you the option to send extra aid, but I really just want them to die off and make you feel sad (and warn of the dangers of Warp travel!). One day I will have time to go back and add a whole extra layer of events to the portal outcomes. One day...
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Jun 11, 2019 19:35
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Darkrenown posted:It has not. As far as I have found out, it's more of a... sub-optimal change than a bug. It's more that the AI wasn't designed for a life without shackling diplo range penalties, but it should be solved in this round of patches at least. Awesome, thanks.  It gets kind of annoying trying to predict which of these guys declaring war on me are actually going to follow through and send all their fleets on insane, years-long one way kamikaze runs across empty space and defend accordingly.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:36
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Yeah, see I almost always immediately research the anomaly before I finish surveying the system because I want whatever it is and my science ships are almost always way ahead of my construction ships because I build them early and often. My first science ship surveys towards a choke point and then goes past it while my second science ship (usually built and manned by the end of the 1st year) either does the same thing in the opposite direction or explores systems close to my homeworld (depends on if the first ship found a planet). The third science ship is usually the one cleaning up surveys around my homeworld.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:36
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TMMadman posted:I still think you guys are really discounting the benefit of unlocking the Discovery tree. It's a 35% bonus to anomaly research speed. That can be really helpful in the early stages of the game. It turns a 600 day hard anomaly into only taking ~400 days which is huge. Even an easy 60 day anomaly drops to like 40 days. Or you just mad dash to survey everything to a nice mid distance choke point, then worry about scanning anomalies after.
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Jun 11, 2019 19:40
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Darkrenown posted:They benefit from your trade too - when they are doing well it cites your economy as a contributor. I could give you the option to send extra aid, but I really just want them to die off and make you feel sad (and warn of the dangers of Warp travel!). Ah, been a while since I had had a chance to read the pop up. But still, if there's a chance leaving them to flounder will actually result in their deaths then an option to send aid (especially if I'm sitting on full stockpiles alread) would be nice, if only so I could tell myself "I tried".
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Jun 11, 2019 19:41
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I want warp beasts to attack me through the portal
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Jun 11, 2019 19:45
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Darkrenown posted:
Ok, that's what I thought, but can you confirm that it's explicitly true for the curator-related science labs? Either they present themselves, or used to present themselves, as discrete modules you picked like any other. But are they more like a evasion upgrade or other flat bonus to that class of ships? And if I research both of them, the +archeology and +survey (or whatever it is), am I getting both bonuses simultaneously as soon as it's researched?
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Jun 11, 2019 19:53
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Nuclearmonkee posted:I want warp beasts to attack me through the portal  The Bramble posted:Ok, that's what I thought, but can you confirm that it's explicitly true for the curator-related science labs? Either they present themselves, or used to present themselves, as discrete modules you picked like any other. But are they more like a evasion upgrade or other flat bonus to that class of ships? And if I research both of them, the +archeology and +survey (or whatever it is), am I getting both bonuses simultaneously as soon as it's researched? Confirmed. Yes. Yes.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:06
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Btw, picking expansion with your first two unity picks is an utter waste and it's provable, although the math may be slightly different since I did most of the starting game experiments with a fanatical authoritarian militarist empire that was slow breeding, but strong, traditional and intelligent. Now iirc, my first tradition pick would happen in 22 months, the 2nd would happen 24 months later and the 3rd was 26 months later. But even if you were able to start building a colony ship on the first day of the game, it still takes a year to build. And then you need time to move it to the system and start the colony. And then it takes 5 years (4 years when you adopt expansion) for the colony. And that means that even if you could start building a colony ship on D1, you'd still wouldn't have your first population from a colony for at least 5 years (or 60 months) and probably closer to 6 given travel times in the early game. However, if you wait and adopt expansion with your third pick, it will be much more in line with when you'll actually be able to build and utilize a colony ship. I usually start building my first colony ship during the 3rd or 4th year and aim to have the colony start by the 5th year so I can start getting population from it by year 9 or 10. TMMadman fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jun 11, 2019 |
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Jun 11, 2019 20:14
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Darkrenown posted:We've talked about this on and off since Stellaris was in production, the only downside is it's a lot of Content Design work and we're normally tasked out. It would be nice to do a "Distanter stars" pack with Deep-Scanning or something later. Actually as I write this I kind of want to make wormholes start opening all over the place as a mid-game crisis and you gotta probe em to find out WTF is going on (Warp beasts?!?). Darkrenown posted:They benefit from your trade too - when they are doing well it cites your economy as a contributor. I could give you the option to send extra aid, but I really just want them to die off and make you feel sad (and warn of the dangers of Warp travel!). I've never had them lose either so I don't know if this already happens but it would be bittersweet if their last gasp was sending a bunch of refugees through the portal.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:24
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Splicer posted:I'd honestly be fine with it just being a second pass of current anomalies Yeah I don't why one would assume you'd need to design new anomalies for this. Just split em. You're solving a design problem here, not a content one.
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Jun 11, 2019 20:27
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