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New Cyberpunk idea! How about an NPC that's named "Gerry Silverhair" in honor of Keanu Reeves, but he's voiced by Doug Cockle?
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Jun 13, 2019 15:43
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chaosapiant posted:New Cyberpunk idea! How about an NPC that's named "Gerry Silverhair" in honor of Keanu Reeves, but he's voiced by Doug Cockle? That sound like a George Clooney character.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:45
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chaosapiant posted:New Cyberpunk idea! How about an NPC that's named "Gerry Silverhair" in honor of Keanu Reeves, but he's voiced by Doug Cockle? If you can think of three more characters then we can have a cool scene where you summon Cyber-Exodia
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Jun 13, 2019 15:48
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. There’s a 95-pound Chinese man with 160 million dollars behind this door."
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Jun 13, 2019 15:49
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Norton the First posted:Out of no-bullshit curiosity, how do you see this going? Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. Have a guy working out in the gym with visible top-surgery scars. Have a non-binary person being talked about with pronouns that aren't he/she. Like, you can show trans people with physical attributes that don't gel with the gender they're presenting without turning the dials all the way up to "hairy-legged trucker in a ballgown". It's not a binary choice between "looks flawlessly cisgender" and "drag queen".
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Jun 13, 2019 15:51
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"I Ask CD Projekt Red Your Most Requested Cyberpunk 2077 Questions in E3 2019 Interview": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKOPkKmDi8I "I Ask Cyberpunk Creator About Keanu Reeves as Johnny Silverhand, 2077 Prequel RPG, Gangs, & More": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8lnrAqH0mk
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Jun 13, 2019 15:52
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The_White_Crane posted:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. Two of those might not even be a thing anymore in a world with biotech as advanced as CP2077's, and I don't know how CDPR would be expected to showcase the third in a demo that was meant to show off gameplay. It seems a little weird to expect them to showcase that in a gameplay demo, to be honest. Edit: At any rate, explicitly androgynous characters were a thing in CP2020, so I'd be expecting to see them somewhere in CP2077, just not necessarily front row and centre for a demo. Pussy Cartel fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 15:53
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lol I just fired one of those up and was watching it literally 45 seconds ago
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Jun 13, 2019 15:53
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Noam Chomsky posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKOPkKmDi8I Holy heck that guy's come a long way from basically just making videos about how bad Fallout76 and Anthem are
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Jun 13, 2019 15:53
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The_White_Crane posted:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. I made a post before the thread was shut down yesterday sort of alluding to this, or trying to anyway. The idea that in a Cyberpunk setting, many of the world's inhabitants, I'd expect, would be a bit ambiguous in regards to sex/gender. Keep it subtle, don't call negative attention to it unless it's handled very deftly, and let the game world do the talking. That seems to be to be the most appropriate way to be inclusive without setting a negative or demeaning tone.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:54
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CascadeBeta posted:But how many negative portrayals have you seen of people referred to as trannies, traps, sissies and the like? Trans is one of the most significant search terms on porn sites. Alex Jones got caught looking at trans porn, for Christ's sake. Nearly all of our "representation" in modern media is as sex objects or have sex or fetishes as their only defining character trait. We're jokes or punchlines, or objects for people to jerk off to. There aren't a whole lot of actually mainstream *visible* portrayals that hinge on trans bodies as actually desirable though is the thing. "Alex Jones watches trans porn" is meaningless without the reaction around it which tended to be jokey, transphobic, and more like a shameful thing (I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the jokesters watch it too). quote:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. And then you're at a point where casting agencies tend to be, which is that they don't actually hire trans actors for trans roles 99% of the time because most trans people who apply for those roles tend to be androgynous in a way that doesn't evoke "this person was assigned the other way at birth" in the way they want so they cast cis men for trans women. Heck, cis women would be the majority of women would slightly husky voices and slightly broader shoulders; the first time I ended up in a homeless women's shelter I was definitely not the woman with the deepest voice there.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:54
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The_White_Crane posted:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. gently caress, even just having an option for the PC to have a pronoun other than him/her would go a long way.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:56
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Pussy Cartel posted:Two of those might not even be a thing anymore in a world with biotech as advanced as CP2077's, and I don't know how CDPR would be expected to showcase the third in a demo that was meant to show off gameplay. It seems a little weird to expect them to showcase that in a gameplay demo, to be honest. It seems a little weird for them to showcase titillating dickgirl posters in a raytracing demo too.  I'm not saying they had to showcase trans inclusivity in their gameplay demos, I'm saying that if they didn't want people to read negatively into their fetishy exploitation poster, they should have shown they were handling the issue with more nuance than just that if they didn't want to get the backlash they have. Edit: And indeed, the fact that they apparently didn't consider the possibility of it producing this backlash kinda tells against the idea that they've given any thought to these issues. The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 15:57
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The_White_Crane posted:It seems a little weird for them to showcase titillating dickgirl posters in a raytracing demo too. :shrugs: I think that was taken way out of proportion though. They showed some raytracing screenshots of a couple of signs and you had to really zoom in just to see that one of those signs was depicting a trans character. It's very possible that was the intention, but it doesn't jive with me. It seems more likely that CDPR/Nvidia were just looking for some good screenshots of the raytracing in effect and just went with the first good ones they saw.
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Jun 13, 2019 15:59
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Honestly trying to think of the last time where a TV show had a trans character, where them being trans isn't the entire character/arc for that person. Sophia from Orange is the new Black season 1 iirc, so ages ago. Even shows with a diverse cast like Brooklyn Nine Nine where people being gay or bi or lesbian is fully normalized (as it should be ofc) only mentioned trans things like twice. I did see a youtube video a while ago where a trans man (who was a teacher) said he explained his top-surgery scars to his class as being "attacked by a shark" and all the kids think he's a badass shark fighter. 
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Jun 13, 2019 16:01
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The_White_Crane posted:Edit: Would you rather have them basically scrub the game for this sort of stuff if you don't trust them to do a good job with it?
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Jun 13, 2019 16:02
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Has is been mentioned anywhere if ray tracing is going to be in cyberpunk? Probably not, but imagine how good it would look with it. I’m naming my character Ray Tracing, OP. So yes. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:How would you tell who is trans and who isn't in their gameplay demo? very carefully
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Jun 13, 2019 16:02
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Eh, if you want to figure out how to represent trans people in media you can just reach out to them and ask what they'd like to see. There are also two trans women who created one of the most beloved sci-fi works of all time you can ask for input. It's not rocket science; game developers just need to take the initiative to do it. I'm also kind of surprised developers don't side-step a lot of criticism by eliminating gender selection in games where you create a character, and just leverage sliders for everything. I guess they just don't think to do that which is part of the problem, but as a programmer and wannabe game developer it seems like a no-brainer.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:02
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Would you rather have them basically scrub the game for this sort of stuff if you don't trust them to do a good job with it? Scrub the game? No. Scrub the promotional material they release? Yes, and lol if you don't think they already do this.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:04
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Would you rather have them basically scrub the game for this sort of stuff if you don't trust them to do a good job with it? Why is it wrong for us to want them to do better? There isn't a gradual sloping curve of being lovely to trans people then getting slightly better and better until it's acceptable. They have the means and money to consult and get trans voices on their team in meaningful positions so they know what to do. And it seems like they either can't or won't do that.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:04
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Pylons posted:gently caress, even just having an option for the PC to have a pronoun other than him/her would go a long way. BattleTech lets you choose preferred pronouns, including them/they. The usual suspects threw a shitfit over it, of course.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:04
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Wicked Them Beats posted:BattleTech lets you choose preferred pronouns, including them/they. I'll never understand people throwing a fit over a thing/game mechanic that they don't have to engage with.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:06
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The_White_Crane posted:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. I think I was confused. You're talking (with the exception of your third point) about ways to demonstrate trans inclusivity to trans people, and that makes sense. I was thinking of how you portray trans people to cis people in a way that identifies them as trans without dialing things up. (I was born in the 80s, and thanks to the legacy of 80s cinema the first quality that jumps into my head wrt to the first one is still "East German Olympic athlete," not transwoman.)
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Jun 13, 2019 16:07
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Noam Chomsky posted:I'm also kind of surprised developers don't side-step a lot of criticism by eliminating gender selection in games where you create a character, and just leverage sliders for everything. I guess they just don't think to do that which is part of the problem, but as a programmer and wannabe game developer it seems like a no-brainer. I remember Silent Storm had this back in 2003. 
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Jun 13, 2019 16:10
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Raged posted:Both sides in here are bad I can tell you that. The_White_Crane posted:Have a woman with a slightly husky voice and slightly broader shoulders. Aside from men being able to get breast cancer too (I met a guy who was in for chemo and radiation while I was getting the same), there's a good possibility someone just took a non-fatal shotgun shot to the chest. There are already plenty of people who find no problems using "they" as a pronoun, right now. In fact, in quite a few languages, it's the default/only pronoun. A neighbour of mine who I've gotten to know over the past 15 years or so, and who I talk with quite a lot, looks quite (for a lack of a better term) manly, and her son is still, to this day, so androgynous I remember thinking he was a girl when I was like 12. All of these things may be clues to a clever person, but most of us are not clever and don't necessarily think about other peoples gender or the lack there of because it's more important to them than it is to us. At the end of the day, what I think we all can agree on is that we shouldn't judge people by their looks, because that's usually not as interesting as what music they listen to, what their hobbies are, and what they like doing for fun, among the million other things that make people interesting to actually talk to. Also, this post might've just been an excuse to post some Amanda Lear disco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flpSudnyOIc
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Jun 13, 2019 16:14
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What attributes does the slider shift? Chests and hips? Androgenic allopecia?
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Jun 13, 2019 16:15
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Here's a start. Replace the ad with one that doesn't explicitly center itself around transness as being shocking. No mix it up slogan, no combination of flavors, and no "Manticore" to suggest a monster made up of conflicting parts.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:15
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Norton the First posted:I think I was confused. You're talking (with the exception of your third point) about ways to demonstrate trans inclusivity to trans people, and that makes sense. I was thinking of how you portray trans people to cis people in a way that identifies them as trans without dialing things up. Make them characters first and trans second. It's a fine line between making trans people visible and tokenizing them, especially because so much of trans culture is about passing. I think if they're characters who happen to be trans and that has had meaningful development on who that character is, that's the best place to start, imo.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:16
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El_Elegante posted:What attributes does the slider shift? Chests and hips? Androgenic allopecia? Cheekbones, jawline and...eye shadow. So not exactly the most progressive example there could be.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:17
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ngl Amanda Lear isn't the greatest example because rumors that she was a specific person in the Paris cabaret scene before changing names to Amanda Lear have abounded since the 70s. Also like sorry but I don't really care if the good trans rep isn't coming from a soda ad. Then again I don't mind a trans drug dealer. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 16:17
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Agnosticnixie posted:ngl Amanda Lear isn't the greatest example because rumors that she was a specific person in the Paris cabaret scene before changing names to Amanda Lear have abounded since the 70s. Oh god not a specific person, the worst kind of person
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Jun 13, 2019 16:18
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Norton the First posted:I think I was confused. You're talking (with the exception of your third point) about ways to demonstrate trans inclusivity to trans people, and that makes sense. I was thinking of how you portray trans people to cis people in a way that identifies them as trans without dialing things up. Ah yes, I was mostly thinking about rep that would be visible to other trans people. Making it explicit in dialogue is pretty much the only thing that's gonna be obvious to cis people unless you go full caricature, but the thing is that's how it should work. The game should have characters who are trans, and whose transness is evident to other trans people, but a surprise to cis people, which helps normalise the idea that actually we don't all look like dick-girls and drag-queens.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:20
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Wicked Them Beats posted:BattleTech lets you choose preferred pronouns, including them/they. who would have thought we'd get that level of inclusion for a giant robot strategy game based on a 1980's tabletop milsim
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Jun 13, 2019 16:22
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Pattonesque posted:who would have thought we'd get that level of inclusion for a giant robot strategy game based on a 1980's tabletop milsim It probably helped that the lead game designer is trans, but yeah that was a nice touch.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:24
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7c Nickel posted:Here's a start. Replace the ad with one that doesn't explicitly center itself around transness as being shocking. No mix it up slogan, no combination of flavors, and no "Manticore" to suggest a monster made up of conflicting parts. Just speaking for myself, that isn't how I took that ad at all. It looked to me like exactly what a corporation full of out of touch men in business suits would propose to capture the attention of a particular demographic. I'd also like to believe that in a world with ubiquitous body part replacement and modification that being trans doesn't really mean much any more, at least not in the same context. And based on the few interviews I've read that seems to be the author's intent.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:24
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The_White_Crane posted:Ah yes, I was mostly thinking about rep that would be visible to other trans people. Making it explicit in dialogue is pretty much the only thing that's gonna be obvious to cis people unless you go full caricature, but the thing is that's how it should work. "It's a surprise to cis people" is already a thing. It's usually a worse thing in mainstream media in how it's treated than that ad by far.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:24
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chaosapiant posted:Just speaking for myself, that isn't how I took that ad at all. It looked to me like exactly what a corporation full of out of touch men in business suits would propose to capture the attention of a particular demographic. I'd also like to believe that in a world with ubiquitous body part replacement and modification that being trans doesn't really mean much any more, at least not in the same context. And based on the few interviews I've read that seems to be the author's intent. Then why aren't they showing more trans characters if they should be everywhere?
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Jun 13, 2019 16:25
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Agnosticnixie posted:"It's a surprise to cis people" is already a thing. It's usually a worse thing in mainstream media in how it's treated than that ad by far.  I don't mean the game should contain a load of scenes of people going "Oh god I thought you were a woman!" and beating their girlfriend up for being trans, I mean that it should take (cis) players by surprise, like it did with Krem in Dragon Age. The_White_Crane fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jun 13, 2019 |
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Jun 13, 2019 16:26
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CascadeBeta posted:Then why aren't they showing more trans characters if they should be everywhere? 1. It's relatively little demo footage and media that the game has had so far for a game that is likely 100+ hours long. 2. How do we know there aren't? If we assume that most people are altered in some way then, at least for myself, I wouldn't even assume gender anymore at that point. The word wouldn't have the same meaning it does now.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:29
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Agnosticnixie posted:So like, do we even know if they're allowing all the classes from the PnP? I loved Rockerboys and Medias back when I had a group for it. Netrunner, Solo, and Techie.
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Jun 13, 2019 16:30
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