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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Jerusalem posted:

Season 3, Episode 11 - Pine Barrens


To an aptly named song, Gloria Trillo pulls up to the pier where Tony's boat The Stugots is moored. She comes bearing a gift, a late Christmas present now she is back from Morocco, but when she boards the boat there is no sign of Tony. Against her better judgement she answers the phone (after turning off the music, which was diegetic) and the person on the other end is Mrs. Washington, from "little Anthony's" high school, calling for Tony. She hands the phone over to Tony who has just arrived, and of course it isn't "Mrs. Washington", it's Irina, who is calling on the pretext of not being able to find her religious medal, which she is sure is on the Stugots. Tony quickly finds an excuse to hang up as Irina timidly asks who the other woman was, and mumbles something to Gloria about AJ's attendance being poo poo before belatedly giving her a kiss hello after she reminds him he hasn't yet. They briefly discuss Morocco but she can tell he's distracted, and finally he admits that the woman on the phone was on old girlfriend. Gloria mocks him for thinking she didn't immediately know that, and then psychoanalyzes him when he admits he lied to avoid pissing her off, noting that this means he was thinking about himself, not her. He didn't want to have to deal with her being angry so he just lied, to spare himself the trouble as opposed to caring about her feelings.

He's taken aback, while her analysis is pretty loving accurate it's also accompanied by a savage venom that seems completely out of whack with the severity of his "crime". She strides out past him, pausing only to hold up the gift so he can see it before she brazenly tosses it out the window to punish him. "Merry Christmas" she snaps and leaves, and he is left utterly baffled by this completely over-the-top reaction.



Paulie is in the middle of a manicure when his phone rings, it's Tony in the back office of the Bada Bing. Silvio has the flu and needs somebody to go and pick up a debt, and since the debt is owed by Valery - the big enforcer for Slava who handles all of Tony's money-laundering - Tony clearly wants somebody he can trust on the job. Paulie doesn't feel particularly blessed to be chosen though, he was meant to take his mother to get her Social Security tomorrow, and more to the point he clearly feels like this type of thing is beneath him. Tony is disinterested in his objections though, he can still take his mother out after he finishes this simple errand that will take at most a half hour, if that.

This simple task is about to create one of the most beloved episodes ever made of this already beloved show.

Tony attends therapy with Carmela again, where they present a happy and united front, still glowing from the aftermath of a very happy and successful Christmas. They're even of one mind about Jackie Aprile Jr, Tony evidently told Carmela enough that they're both free to express their reservations about his relationship with Meadow again. The only tension comes from a brief aside about Tony's overt racism (against Carmela's covert racism) towards Noah, but Melfi is still impressed by the fact they can express this difference of opinion without getting angry and shouting. Tony gives her the credit and Carmela doesn't dispute it, he feels they're learning to be better communicators.

Meadow, meanwhile, is failing to get the message as she plays Scrabble in her dorm with a bored Jackie. She's got the flu too, and is not at all receptive to Jackie's attempts to turn Scrabble into sex even in spite of her clear illness. He complains (good-naturedly) that she can't play Spanish words in Scrabble, not knowing what oblique (he pronounces it oh-blee-kay) means. She's confused, he's in College, he must know that word? "I'm not an English Major" he insists, playing "rear end" on the board and asking her to give him some. When he finally figures out that they're not going to bang, he becomes bored, checking his watch and asking if she wants to do Ecstasy: he can't fathom simply sitting around and being with her/there for her. Sensing his boredom she asks if he is tired and he immediately leaps on the chance to agree and get his coat, insisting it is for her benefit so she can get some sleep. Out the door he goes, leaving her slightly startled at the rapidity of his departure, left all alone feeling sick and miserable.



The next morning, Paulie has roped Christopher into his errand, the two discussing Russians as they walk up to Valery's apartment door. Christopher doesn't think the Russians are all that bad, shocked to discover from Paulie that the Cuban Missile Crisis was real and not just some movie. Valery, smoking and holding a glass of booze (far from his first of the day) comes to the door and lets them in with a dismissive smirk when he sees it is them. He doesn't bother to greet them or invite them in, leaving Paulie at least pissed off before he enters, he already didn't want to be there and now this rear end in a top hat Russian is ignoring him? Christopher enters first and Paulie cracks a joke about there probably being 30+ people living here. Valery, unimpressed, offers the closest thing he has to hospitality, which is to offer them a drink, which they turn down as it is so early in the morning. Paulie meanwhile is distracted by the giant entertainment center, cracking another joke about how Valery probably wiped his rear end barehanded before coming to America and now he has all this and even uses a universal remote. Valery takes all this in silence as he sits on the couch drinking, the only emotion he betrays is minor contempt for Silvio when Christopher asks if he has his money. He does though, it's in an envelope on the entertainment center, and Christopher starts counting it as Paulie cracks another off-colour joke about rubles. Valery has had enough, he's paid his debt and now he wants them gone, so barely holding his bemused contempt for the two of them in check he grunts at Paulie to put the universal remote back on the docking station. Paulie, feeling insulted simply by being there, is even more insulted that the guy he is collecting money FROM now has the balls to order him about. So being Paulie, he "accidentally" drops the remote on the ground and smashes it, even Christopher shaking his head at this being too much.

And Valery sighs.

There's a lot to unpack from that sigh. He's downtrodden, drunk, a pathetic slob... but he's also a big guy who clearly holds zero fear for either of these two mobsters. The sigh is his acknowledgement/understanding that they pushed things too far and now he is going to have to do something about it. He knows it is wrong, that it is going to make a mess for Slava, but he also knows that he can't let the insult go unanswered. So he starts to rise from his couch, muttering angrily about Paulie loving with him in his own house.... and Paulie shoves him back down into the couch and smashes him over the head with his own bottle of booze. Valery's reaction is instant, he launches from the couch like a torpedo and directly into Paulie, both of them spilling over the coffee table as Christopher reacts a second too late to try and haul Valery off. He throws Valery into a chokehold but the big Russian lifts him bodily from the ground and backs him into a wall, spilling him off and then putting HIM into a chokehold. Paulie, still gasping from the shock of the sudden attack after what should have been a fight-ending move, grabs the nearby lampstand and uses it to haul Valery off of Christopher while choking him. Christopher staggers up, races over and holds down Valery's legs as Paulie continues to press the weight down on his neck until finally Valery stops fighting back. Christopher is appalled, what the gently caress did Paulie just do? He claims he had no choice of course, and they look down at Valery's choking, gasping face and figure that his windpipe is cracked and he's as good as dead. Hauling a rug down off the wall, Paulie tells Christopher to bring the car around, and in quick order they're wheeling Valery's bundled up body out to their car on a handcart and dumping it in the trunk.



All Paulie has to do was collect the money and go.

Despite how they last left it, Tony and Gloria have had another romantic getaway in a hotel. Naked in the bed, Gloria has presented Tony with an apology card that he finds wonderfully charming: she's feeling very sheepish, and there is a sheep on the card. She apologizes for answering the phone on the Stugots in the first place, she had no right, and she's presented him with another gift: it's a Moroccan robe, and she's girlishly charming as she tosses her arms high in the air in a mixture of happiness and awkwardness about how to express her emotions. He doesn't quite know what to make of it (there's a disturbing parallel between his reaction to this gift and his reaction to Meadow's last episode) but he is clearly pleased, holding it up to look it over before folding it up and admitting he feels like a jerk for not getting her anything. She insists he certainly does, and next thing you know they're having sex, the moment ruined by yet another ringing phone. Irritated but figuring it is business related and therefore important, he answers and it is Paulie on the other end, giving him an extremely biased version of events. He got the money, but then things got physical, Valery gave them poo poo and even sucker-punched Paulie! Christopher narrows his eyes at hearing this, while a pissed off Tony leaves the bed and Gloria and shifts to the toilet to get a more detailed breakdown. Flushing the toilet to mask his voice from Gloria, he can't believe it when Paulie tells him Valery is in their trunk: he's supposed to meet Slava later! He warns them to use their own judgment in what they do now, but whatever it is they do it far away from him. The phone reception is bad and they can barely hear each other, the phone connection breaking entirely as a furious Tony hangs up and goes back into the hotel bedroom where Gloria is dressing and rolling her eyes at him needlessly wasting water to cover up what he was saying. She has to go, he wants to take her to lunch but this was her lunch break, but she suggests he come to her house for dinner at 9pm, she'll make him London broil.

At a gas station, Christopher and Paulie consider what to do with Valery: dump him at the shore? Nah, it's too light out... though Christopher suggests maybe they could go to Roy Rogers and get something to eat while they wait. Paulie is all business though (now, anyway), first they deal with Valery, then food. His suggestion is that they take him to the Pine Barrens, it is in South Jersey which means it is far from anybody they know... plus then business-first Paulie suggests they can drive down to Atlantic City afterwards, get a room for the evening and play some blackjack! Christopher's only interest is in eating, he didn't have breakfast, so Paulie sweetens the deal by saying they'll go out for steak.

Tony has returned to therapy for a solo session with Melfi, where he again credits her for his improved outlook and cheery demeanor. She simply sits silently until the quiet leaves him uncomfortable enough to tell her the truth, though of course he twists this as somehow a great and magnanimous gesture from him that he has decided to tell his loving therapy the goddamn truth for a change. He is seeing Gloria Trillo, and though she of course knew this for all but a fact, she simply nods and asks him a pertinent question she wants HIM to know the answer to: why Gloria? Why not is all he can think? Gloria is smart, sexy... she's Italian! He tries to sweet talk Melfi, saying maybe Gloria reminds him of her since she is also smart, sexy and Italian. He's not taking any of this seriously, while she is quietly pleading with him to read the clear warning signs while not being able to say a thing due to doctor/patient confidentiality. When he insists that both he and Gloria are happy and that's all that matters, she points out that he's lying to Carmela. He claims it doesn't matter, because he's a better husband and a better father thanks to the good mood that Gloria puts him in... yes, that's right, Tony Soprano thinks that cheating on his wife makes him a good husband.



Paulie and Christopher drive to South Jersey and the Pine Barrens, the recent snow making the place even more deserted than normal. Pulling up to the chained off access road, they get out and open the trunk... and Valery sits up into the light, having half worked his way out of the rolled up rug he was bundled into. They're shocked, he's alive!?! Paulie is amused though, it means he gets to goad and taunt Valery for the great sin of not taking kindly to his racist insults, and the insult of Paulie being sent on this errand in the first place. Valery's windpipe wasn't cracked, he's able to talk having chewed through the tape, and growls insults at Paulie who is looking on the bright side: now they don't have to carry his corpse OR dig the grave, Valery can do it himself.

They walk through the snow, the place is eerily quiet and the dead trees of winter make it seem all the more barren. But as they move, Valery seems surprisingly calm, even cheerful. Hands taped behind his back, wearing only light pajama pants and a short-sleeved shirt, the cold doesn't bother him in the slightest and he simply smiles and chuckles every so often as he looks back at the clearly freezing Paulie and Christopher. Reaching a good spot to finish him off, they remove his tape and tell him to start digging, and he sneers in Russian that he will kill them both, clubbing his chest and roaring that the cold doesn't bother him, he washes his balls in ice-water, this is warm to him and they are American pieces of poo poo!



He starts to dig in the snow, while Paulie take the chance to taunt him some more, telling him they had no plans to kill him when they arrived and it was Valery's big mouth that got him into this trouble (pot, kettle, etc). Christopher, already looking past the murder of this man standing right in front of him, asking just how far Atlantic City is, and Valery takes his chance. Swinging his shovel he drops Christopher with a blow to the side of the head, jamming the handle into Paulie's balls as he tries to jump him. Not bothering to try and struggle over one of their two guns, he simply rushes into the trees, confident in his ability to survive the snow and navigate his way to freedom. They give chase, a clumsy rehash of their chase of Mikey Palmice back in season one, shooting wildly after Valery who moves quickly and easily through the snow, a big smile on his face as the adrenaline pumps through his system. They can't keep up, he's pulling away, and Paulie finally stops, holds his gun steady and takes one last roll of the dice as he fires, face in despair at the thought of what this fuckup will mean to him in regards to Tony... and Valery's head explodes in blood and he collapses to the ground. Shocked, slightly disbelieving but relieved, they stand to catch their breath... and in front of their shocked eyes Valery's corpse rises up and he races off into the trees again, somehow still alive.

They stand in shock, trying to figure out what they just saw. Eventually they move to where he fell, a trail of blood and footprints in the snow leading away. Christopher is concerned about his own bloodied head but Paulie assures him it'll just need a couple of stitches. They figure Valery can't have got far with half his head hanging off, and start following the blood and footprints... until both stop and leave them with only pristine white snow in front of them. Valery has simply... disappeared? An overhead camera shot could be construed as him having climbed a tree, but they're bare and open to the sky, the chances of being seen would surely be too high. The overhead shot does indicate that he looped around a tree and off to the side, but they could also have been left by Paulie and Christopher themselves, and the lack of blood is the most confusing. No. He's just... gone.



AJ is watching a music video as Carmela pops down to go to the market and confirms with Tony that he'll be home for dinner. In spite of his plans with Gloria he agrees he will, and after she leaves he gives Paulie a call to ensure that the Valery situation has been dealt with. Suffice to say it has not, and Tony becomes progressively more enraged as the quality of the call declines, allowing other voices on the same frequency to come through, and they attempt to talk about the situation in code. AJ can't help but overhear Tony bellowing,"COULD THE PACKAGE SURVIVE!?!" after Paulie deadpan explains that "the package hit Chrissy with an implement and ran off", and he must be wondering just what package Tony is expecting. Tony hangs up after the interference becomes too much, furious that he has to meet with Slava soon and doesn't know what kind of danger he could be walking into. He gave Paulie a simple task, and it's turned into a giant clusterfuck.

In the Pine Barrens, Paulie is still feeling aggrieved at the lack of respect he is being shown. He doesn't even know what work Tony is doing with Slava, and disputes Christopher's reminder that it isn't their place to know, reminding him that he at least is a Captain. Both are complaining about the cold, which they're not equipped for (more than Valery at least), and with conviction born of laziness they decide that Valery must surely be dead by now and the squirrels will eat him, so they should just go home. Christopher is sure that they looped around at one point and shouldn't just turn the other way, but a smug Paulie reminds him that he spent 4 years in the army and he knows his way around: they simply have to follow their own footprints. So they do. And get lost. Because they followed their own footprints in a loop back on itself and now they don't have a clue where the hell they are. Paulie uses the setting sun to figure out which direction they're facing at least, though Christopher points out this doesn't get them any less lost. Paulie, who is rapidly making a terrible situation (of his making!) even worse, continues to insist that he's got everything under control.

Tony arrives for his meeting with Slava, bringing him another bag full of dirty money to launder. Slava greets him as warmly as ever, introducing him to his daughter Ilana and sending her off with some cash to buy some candy and leave them alone. Tony is friendly but hiding his nervousness, looking for signs from Slava that something is wrong, that he knows something. As Slava pours them a drink, Tony can't help but notice the big handgun prominently placed as a paperweight on the desk, and he "casually" brings up Valery, noting that he isn't here like normal. Slava doesn't know either, though he asks if he paid Silvio back the money like he was instructed? Tony pretends ignorance, saying he wasn't there for the pickup, and then notices a picture of the two of them in army uniform in the background. Slava, getting emotional, tells how Valery saved his life in Chechnya but has become a tragic figure due to drugs and alcohol and disgraced his family. But Slava would do anything for his friend (including paying his debt to Silvio, it would seem), and Tony just gets more uneasy about how the man who cleans his money will react if he discovers Tony's men killed Valery.



As Paulie and Christopher continue looking for their car, Tony calls to give them the breakdown on what he just learned over a few more drinks with a tearful Slava. Valery is a monster, he was a Commando, a Russian Green Beret who worked for the Interior Ministry and killed 16 Chechen rebels single-handed. He has to repeat himself due to the bad connection, and stresses at the end that under NO circumstances can Valery make it back to tell his story. Paulie, assures him he understands, and they end the call. He then turns and tells Christopher EXACTLY what he just heard Tony say.... Valery killed 16 Czechoslovakians, and he was an interior decorator! Christopher considers this for a moment, before giving back an appropriate response,"His house looked like poo poo."

Time passes as they return to the woods in search of Valery, guns drawn and limbs trembling as the sun starts to go down and whatever minor heat of the day dissipates. The sound of a twig breaking gives them hope and Christopher leads as they rush into the treeline, shooting blindly at nothing until Paulie trips and tumbles down a snowbank, losing a shoe in the process. Christopher hit what he was looking for though, except it wasn't a Russian Green Beret, it was a deer he managed to shoot right through the neck, killing it immediately. He can't believe it, laughing that if he'd tried he wouldn't have come close, but Paulie isn't impressed: they're no closer to finding Valery, it's getting dark, and he's lost a shoe.

At Columbia in her dorm-room, a still sick Meadow gets a call from Jackie Jr who is full of excuses for why he can't come around to see her tonight, all the while clearly dressing up and grooming for a night out. He has to get his mother's car inspected... at night. Not happy but not disbelieving just yet, Meadow says goodnight and puts down the phone in disappointment. But as she lies on her bed sulking, she spots the Scrabble game they abandoned last night and a long overdue realization strikes her as she looks at his words - THE, DOG, POO, rear end - and finally grasps the truth: Jackie Aprile Jr is a dumb piece of poo poo.

The sun has fully set and Christopher helps support Paulie as he hops along at his side, fearing frostbite and the loss of his foot if they don't find their way out soon. Christopher, who hasn't eaten all day, spots some berries and wants to eat them, but Paulie is bright enough at least to realize that there is every chance they're poisonous. But respite of a different sort is in sight, there is a van sitting in the snow just ahead of them. They rush/hop towards it, realizing there is gravel under the snow and they are on some type of road. The plumbing ban is empty and abandoned, the back wheels gone, but it is shelter at least and they climb inside (Paulie shoving Christopher out of the way to get in first, of course) and out of the elements at last. Inside, they take a moment to review their personal situations: Christopher gets to look at the damage to his head at last, while Paulie tries to use his own bodyheat to stave off the cold in his foot. A more pressing concern can't be ignored though: what if Valery really is still alive? It doesn't seem possible, but he's trained for this kind of Die Hard poo poo.



Tony eats dinner with Carmela and AJ, he doesn't have much of an appetite but he enjoys revealing to a startled AJ he knows the punchline to an old joke that AJ was convinced his friend Egon made up. Carmela enjoys the interplay, but can't help but notice he is picking at his food and keeps checking his watch.

At Gloria's, she works busily on the London Broil, a nice romantic dinner for just her and the man currently eating dinner with his wife and child.

At the Pine Barrens, the wonderfully disheveled Paulie mocks Christopher's concern that Valery could be out there stalking them ("with what? His cock?") since even if he was alive, he'd be in no state to do much at all let alone stalk them. Paulie is determined to convince them both that Valery is dead, but the fear of what will happen to him if not disappears when he sees Christopher has found a crumpled fast food bag... and there are ketchup packets inside! They quickly divide them up, these two feared mobsters utterly pathetic as they sit bloodied, concussed and freezing in an abandoned van, lost and greedily eating ketchup. As far from the glamorous movie vision of mobsters as it is possible to get.

Back at the Soprano home, AJ brings his grandparents into the kitchen after being sent to answer the door. Carmela of course immediately knows something is wrong, and Tony is stunned to hear that they've come from the doctor's and Hugh has glaucoma, he may need an operation on his eyes. Tony brings Hugh in to sit at the table, while Carmela moves to make coffee, but then Tony's phone rings. It's Paulie, who seemingly out of the goodness of his heart has left the van to make the call since Christopher has dozed off. But when he gets upset at Tony being pissed off at his lack of results and the fact they've gotten lost, he realizes he has taken things too far... so he turns to ensure Christopher is still sleeping before quietly explaining that sometimes Tony's nephew doesn't think before he acts. Now Tony is confused, didn't Valery start this by sucker-punching Paulie? Caught between two lies and seeing Christopher moving about, he says they'll talk later and quickly hangs up. Tony ponders just what the hell is going on, and walks back into the kitchen where he hesitates for just a second too long when Carmela asks if he is having coffee. Disgusted, she quietly but firmly reminds him: Her. father. has. glaucoma. He stands caught in an impossible place, he can't get out of this even if he wasn't wanting to leave to go bang his mistress, so he nods and joins them at the table.



In her dorm, Meadow calls and leaves yet another message for Jackie. Her suspicions getting the better of her, she manages to get up and down the hall in her bathrobe, sniffling and near tears as she asks another student - Ambujam - if she can borrow her car.

Another suspicious girlfriend is Gloria Trillo, who is drunk and chain-smoking well past the hour that Tony promised to come by for dinner. She ambles to the door when he knocks and lets him in, halfway between drunk and pissed as she walks off complaining that she'd have gotten married if she wanted to be treated like poo poo. He's apologetic but also trying to undercut her complaints, saying if dinner is ruined then they'll just go out. She doesn't want to be presented with solutions though, she wants to be mad, slapping away his hand when he strokes her hair. Now he's mildly irritated, after all he said sorry! But he maintains his cool, settling down beside her (his physical presence really is remarkably overpowering seen in close like this) and gently explaining it was "family poo poo" that couldn't be avoided. Against her better judgment she finds herself forgiving him, making one last sullen attempt to complain that he's 3 hours later before melting into his arms as a poo poo-eating grin crosses his face: he's gotten everything his own way yet again.

Christopher has settled outside of the van and is attempting to make fire by rubbing sticks together. Is it a survival technique? A campfire? No, he's literally just trying to generate enough of a spark to light his cigarette! Hearing a twig snapping, he quietly and carefully makes his way back to the "safety" of the van where Paulie is tearing at the carpeted floor of the back of the van as he bitches about Silvio getting the "sniffles" and them being forced to go and run his errands for him. He complains to Christopher that Tony was talking to him like a child on the phone, in spite of all the money he has made for Tony and Johnny Boy before him. Christopher, cold and (he'll never admit this) scared of Valery out there in the dark, just listens as Paulie lets vent of his feelings: in spite of everything he has done for Tony, the current golden child is Ralphie who brings in so much money it largely forgives him his many transgressions while Paulie makes one little mistake like trying (and failing) to murder a guy on a simple cash pick-up, losing him in the woods and getting lost and he doesn't hear the end of it!

Christopher asks for a share of the "blanket" so he can go to sleep, wisely not joining Paulie in bitching about the Boss of the Family. He's all ears though when Paulie says he has a plan to get out: they're in a van, it had to get here somehow, so if they find a road they can walk out of there. Christopher points out that the "road" seems to end at the trees ahead of them, and rejects Paulie's suggestion he give him his shoes so he can walk out for both of them. Christopher isn't dumb, there's no way he's going to let Paulie abandon him. An angry Paulie asks what HIS plan then? Christopher is still starving and his only "plan" is that they should have gone to Roy Rogers. Pissed off, Paulie calls Tony again, rejecting Christopher's warning that he is going to piss him off, after all, they're gonna die out here!

Tony is enjoying the fire and some wine while wearing the Moroccan robe Gloria bought him, just chilling on the couch while she tries to salvage the London Broil. Christopher was right, he's pissed to see that Paulie is calling him again, but Paulie doesn't lose his courage as he demands that Tony come rescue them somehow. How can he do that if THEY don't even know where they are? So Paulie shouts that they came in through Exit 12, and Christopher adds in that it was called Pike's Hollow. He can come to there and drive up a dirt road to the picnic tables, that's where they parked and maybe the van they're in is on the same road? When he gets there he can just start yelling and they'll find him!



Tony is pissed but there's a strange logic to Paulie's plan, so he asks him to put Christopher on. Through the interference bringing in multiple other callers, he hears Christopher complain he has a concussion and starts thinking maybe he really does need to come rescue these two idiots. He tells them to hang in there, while Christopher begs him to bring food and Paulie demands shoes. In the background, Gloria gulps back a wine, overhearing Tony's half of the conversation and obviously not pleased at the way it is going. When he pulls off his robe and tells her he has to go, she slams the London Broil on the table and demands to know if he thinks she is just some whore: she made him dinner and he ruined it, she's just salvaged it and now he's leaving AGAIN!?! Confused as to why she is reacting so strongly (after all, he said he was sorry!) he tells her to calm down, and when she rants about how he just came over to gently caress her and leave he sees no benefit to sticking around to argue and just turns to leave. Lifting the steak, she hurls it across the room and it slams into the back of his neck (director Steve Buscemi - yes, that Steve Buscemi - was the one who tossed it at Gandolfini) and he twists around in a cold fury that makes her step back. Uninterested in hashing this out with her (after all, there's an element of truth to her complaint that she's just somebody he fucks), he declares he doesn't have time for this poo poo and walks out. She screams that she hates him at the closing door, then like a child throwing a tantrum she slaps the glasses and plates off the table, tears off the table cloth and leaves her kitchen a mess.

Outside Jackie's apartment, Meadow sits in the car with Ambujam, who wisely drove her after seeing she was in no physical state to drive. Still holding back tears, Meadow voices her fear that Jackie is cheating on her, while Ambujam is of no doubt that his car inspection story is obvious bullshit. But Meadow is already second-guessing herself, doesn't sneaking after him to spy on him make her as bad as him? Maybe they should go? Ambujam rolls her eyes, this isn't the first (and won't be the last) time she's seen some otherwise smart young woman get twisted up over some good-looking rear end in a top hat.

Junior Soprano is also up, making himself tea as he waits for Tony to arrive after getting a call asking for Bobby Baccalieri to come help him. Tony arrives, apologizing for waking him, but Junior notes he spends most of his nights up getting sick from the chemo in any case. Junior is confused by the smell of steak coming from Tony, who tiredly just asks if he can borrow a shirt to replace his own. He pulls out a bottle of Johnny Walker to drink, then breaks into giggles as Bobby enters the room dressed in camo-gear and a high vis vest (Steven Schirripa actually walked in wearing a strap-on dildo in order to garner the genuine reaction from James Gandolfini). Bobby is offended, he's been hauled out of bed and brought out in the middle of the night simply to be laughed at? He tries to leave in a huff but Junior demands he come back and do what his nephew asks of him. Tony heads to Junior's room to change his shirt, while Bobby sighs and warns Junior that he has his limits too.

At Jackie's, the lights go out and Ambujam tells Meadow to be strong. Jackie leaves the apartment, accompanied by a blonde, and it's all Meadow needs to see. She leaps out of the car and confronts a shocked Jackie, asking how he could do this to her, she loved him. The blonde is pissed, who the gently caress is she? "gently caress you, bitch!" offers Ambujam helpfully as she steps out of the car too, and as the blonde turns to talk poo poo to her, Meadow tells Jackie she never wants to hear from him again. She races back to the car and Ambujam drives her out of there as the blonde sneers that she better run. Jackie is freaking out though, warning her that this is Tony Soprano's daughter (not his girlfriend, not the woman he loves, no his fear is that he's pissed off Tony). She doesn't give a poo poo, now that Meadow and Ambujam are gone her anger is turned on Jackie, after all you can guarantee he didn't mention anything about a girlfriend to her.



His shirt changed, Tony drives her and Bobby towards Exit 12. He's surprised about Bobby's knowledge of the woods and hunting, and Bobby reveals a childhood that Tony probably envies: in spite of his father being a legendary assassin, he also frequently took Bobby on hunting trips where they clearly has a loving relationship and formed cherished memories. Tony makes a genuine apology for laughing at Bobby earlier, and now that the moment has passed Bobby is happy to forgive him. He offers a fantastic dad-joke ("We saw a sign that said Bear Left, so we went home!") that falls flat with Tony, but Tony does again show genuine gratitude when he thanks him for his help with Junior. Their less than amicable initial relationship has been smoothed over by familiarity, and Bobby who once complained that he "inherited" Junior admits that he's come to value him and sometimes wishes he was his Uncle too. Tony would envy the relationship that Bobby had with his father, but it seems Bobby envies the respect that Junior holds Tony in too: he wishes he had somebody like that who thought so highly of him. Tony is surprised and doesn't quite believe that Junior so openly loves him and speaks well of him, but Bobby insists it is true. It probably is too, ever since Richie Aprile failed to set up a coup and Junior decided to stick with Tony, his appreciation/support of Tony hasn't really wavered. It's food for thought for Tony, after all it wasn't that long ago that Junior tried to have him killed.

In the van, Christopher wakes up and asks an oddly quiet Paulie what time it is. Paulie answers it it 4:30, but can't help but reveal he has Tic Tacs in his mouth as he does so. Christopher is furious, he as Tic Tacs!?! Paulie insists he only just found them and has just eaten them all so there are none left. Christopher, disgusted, declares he is going to go outside and eat the berries off the bush they passed after all... if they're poison, at least he won't die hungry!

Tony and Bobby arrive at the picnic tables that Paulie told Tony about, but there is no sign of their car. They wouldn't have left without calling him though, so he tries to call and speak with Tony, but the interference is too heavy and the battery too low, and the call cuts off. Christopher runs up to the door and smacks on the window, asking what Tony said, but Paulie doesn't know. Tired and fed up, Christopher starts to take a piss in the snow, ignoring Paulie's protests that he go piss over on his side of the van. When Christopher offers back a grumpy,"gently caress you," he threatens to pull rank, but Christopher hits him with another gently caress you, after all whether he's a Captain or not, right now they're just two assholes lost in the woods. Their argument escalates as Christopher asks if Paulie plans to choke him to death if he goes back to sleep, and reveals that he overheard him on the phone earlier in the evening when he tried to blame the Valery debacle on him. Paulie flies into another rage at these accusations, and declares he'll choke him right now before proceeding to do exactly that, grabbing Christopher around the throat and shaking him... until Christopher pulls his gun on him. Paulie instantly releases him, hands up, asking his beloved friend Christopher if he really thinks he would kill him. The trouble is, Christopher absolutely does.... but as he stands with his gun pulled on him, the two of them a bloody and disheveled (and one-shoed!) mess, the utter absurdity of their situation finally hits him. He laughs in concussed glee, Paulie watching wide-eyed and nervous, not quite knowing exactly where this is going, certainly not seeing the joke that Christopher is. He asks Christopher to promise he won't leave him here in the middle of nowhere and with great sincerity Christopher - who seems to think they've reached some beautiful shared moment - assures him he won't before he heads back around his own side of the van, still laughing.



Tony honks his car horn and bellows for Paulie and Christopher, but there is no answer. Bobby says there is no point going searching for them in the dark, they'll simply wait for first light and then go on the hunt.

5:50 in the morning, Meadow is in the infirmary after her late night trip ruined any recovery from her flu she'd had. Ambujam reads a magazine beside her as Caitlin arrives, the surprisingly level-headed and normal seeming one for a change as she commiserates with Meadow after learning about what happened (Ambujam is sure to throw in that the blonde was a real whore, too!). Caitlin tells Meadow that Jackie wasn't worthy of her and offers a shocking accurate assessment of his qualities... he was cute, but we was really boring! Meadow though is weeping for the fantasy version of Jackie in her head, sobbing that they don't understand how great he was.

Daylight finally breaks and Christopher and Paulie leave the van, Paulie having fashioned a "shoe" with a section of the carpet. They move down the road, Christopher still bundled in carpet, Paulie insisting that whichever way they go, they don't stop till they hit cement. As they move out, Tony and Bobby are moving in, Bobby tells stories that his father used to share with him about the area: it was apparently once home to a group of albinos known as the Jackson Whites. Tony bellows out for Paulie and Christopher, but there is still no answer.

They're wandering half-frozen through the woods with no idea where they're going, Paulie looking like Jack Nicholson in The Shining. They're talking about Dennys, their plans to go straight there and eat five Grand Slam breakfasts. Tony slips and trips, his "shoe" has already come loose and his fingers are too frozen to retie the knot. Losing his cool, he tears it off and pulls his gun, shooting it in impotent fury. Behind them and going the other way, Tony and Bobby overheard the gunshots and Bobby identifies it as not coming from any deer hunter. He fires his own rifle into the air as Tony calls out, and Paulie and Christopher hear it and come running, shouting out for TOny as well, so desperate for rescue that they literally throw their hands up and wave them about as if signaling a plane. Spotting each other across a clearing, Christopher rushes to embrace Tony, who steps back to get a close look at his (dried) bloody forehead. Paulie catches up and glosses over answering what he was shooting at, and Tony and Bobby help Christopher and Paulie respectively make their way back to the car, Bobby not quite able to believe they're this hosed up after only a single night in the woods.

Arriving back at the car, they eagerly bundle in and ask for the heat to be turned on. This is definitely where they left Paulie's car but it is nowhere to be seen, and now that Tony is satisfied they are safe he has to consider the ramifications of their gently caress-ups, and that includes pondering WHO stole the car. Inside, Christopher pulls open a cooler (from Davey Scatino's store?) and grabs out sandwiches to eat. Bobby suggests it was probably kids who stole the car, but Christopher blurts out what only just occurred to him... what if it was Valery? Paulie casts him a dirty look, but it is out in the open now. Tony asks another pertinent question, where is the $5000? Paulie shamefacedly admits that the money was in the car too, and with that disturbing smile Tony reserves for when he is REALLY angry, he quietly notes that this was all he asked Paulie to do. Not to kill Valery, or take him into the Pine Barrens, or get lost, or haul him away from his mistress in the middle of the night. Just to pick up some money and leave. Paulie promises that he had no choice, it couldn't be helped, and Christopher backs him when he says that Valery simply lunged at them out of nowhere.

Tony considers the situation for a moment, then asks Bobby if Valery could possibly survive and make it out. His reply isn't that helpful, a headshot no but a flesh-wound maybe, but on the other hand who can say? So Tony decides to delegate, and hands Paulie a big bucket of poo poo to drink: he is a Captain, that comes with a responsibilities. If he chooses, they'll go back into the woods and hunt Valery down, either living or a corpse. If he chooses, they'll simply drive home and leave Valery to fate. The decision is HIS, not Tony's. So Paulie considers and finally says gently caress it, let's just go home. Tony nods, the decision has been made... but with it comes the repercussions. If Valery was to ever crawl out from some rock and cause them strife in the future, it will be Paulie who suffers the consequences with Slava. Paulie agrees, and they drives out of the Pine Barrens and back towards civilization in an uncomfortable silence. Christopher eats, Bobby muses quietly, and Tony and Paulie brood. When Tony points out that Paulie has mayonnaise on his chin, his tone is aggressive and condescending and Paulie can't help but hear it. They're alive, Valery is probably dead, and Paulie has been given the authority and responsibility he felt was his due after being treated like an errand boy... but as they drive, the one man you would have once considered Tony Soprano's most ardent supporter sits fuming, feeling an obvious resentment towards his Boss.



The seeds have been sown for a rift that will be exploited in the weeks and months to come, with lethal consequences. Before the episode ends, I'd just like to say that this episode's high reputation is well-deserved. Paulie and Christopher are scene-stealers of course, but there is so much fascinating stuff going on around them as well between Tony and Gloria, but also Tony and Carmela and even Tony and Junior (albeit via the burgeoning relationship with Bobby). Plus there's the undeniable final proof of Jackie's stupidity via the Scrabble game, and of course the break-up with Meadow, all of which will have great consequences going forward.

But it is the double-act of Christopher and Paulie that delights so much, described in some ways as a hosed up Waiting for Godot where they talk on a variety of subjects while waiting for somebody who never arrives. You could debate the ultimate fate of Valery till the cows come home and never come to an answer (David Chase apparently detested that people wouldn't shut up about it, and refused to write any kind of closure as a gently caress you to them) and I think it is irrelevant. What is relevant is Paulie's physical decline (his hair is glorious) and his growing realization that his years of loyalty and work mean nothing next to money, and how closely he and Christopher parallel each other. They are essentially the same person at different points in their career, and watching them spark off each other is a sheer delight.

The episode ends with an aria that will open the next episode. But not before Tony Soprano attends one more therapy session where he is furious at Melfi for not warning him that Gloria was hosed in the head and so quick to jump from loving to a complete mess. Melfi keeps her calm but is not willing to accept blame for something Tony bullishly slammed into headfirst despite her obvious warning signs. Tony's rage fades and he pouts that everything always has to be so hard, sure he's not perfect but he does the right thing by his family (screwing multiple mistresses and various strippers?) and that should count for something. Rather than ripping apart that bullshit justification, she instead pushes to get to the root of the problem. Wanting to guide him to a breakthrough but frustrated by his half-assed attempts at therapy, she tries to make it as obvious as possible. What attracted him to Gloria in the first place? Not the obvious sex appeal, but what connects Gloria with, for example, Irina? Depressive personalities, unstable, impossible to please... do these traits remind him of any other particular woman in his life?

For a moment, just the briefest of moments, you see the dawn of comprehension in Tony's eyes. But then it is gone, whisked away by his conscious mind in rejection of the obvious but the unacceptable. His eyes dart to the side, he shakes his head and shrugs. For now, consciously at least, he cannot see that Livia Soprano's iron hold over his psyche has not slackened in the slightest since her death.

Season 3: Mr. Ruggerio's Neighborhood | Proshai, Livushka | Fortunate Son | Employee of the Month | Another Toothpick | University | Second Opinion | He Is Risen | The Telltale Moozadell | ...To Save Us All from Satan's Power | Pine Barrens | Amour Fou | Army of One
Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2


Hell yea, been looking forward to you getting to Pine Barrens. In my own rewatch I stopped at Season 4 so I'm also looking forward to those write-ups so I can pick it back up and actually watch along.

quoted the write-up because it doesn't deserve to be at the bottom of a page like that.

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DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
My favorite ep for sure.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
I liked the episode fine, but never understood the worship it gets.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

For Meadow dating Patrick,

I thought the whole "He's changed" was something to do with him getting divorced (I think that is mentioned) etc. probably for sleeping around (maybe with Meadow), or probably drugs since... :law: not that he was an active mobster/associate.

I think Patsy wanted at least one of his kids to go legit, so he was more accepting of the other joining the mob.

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

Torquemada posted:

I liked the episode fine, but never understood the worship it gets.

I think that, like "College", it is a great encapsulation of all the areas that the show does so well. It's laugh-out-loud funny, violent and exciting, full of relationship drama and open-ended questions, and has that crackling dialogue between Paulie and Chris that feels both real and heightened at the same time. I totally get the love for this episode, it is like a nice 1-hour showcase of all the strengths of The Sopranos in one.

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser
Put like that, that it’s the ur-Sopranos experience, I guess it delivers.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Ishamael posted:

I think that, like "College", it is a great encapsulation of all the areas that the show does so well. It's laugh-out-loud funny, violent and exciting, full of relationship drama and open-ended questions, and has that crackling dialogue between Paulie and Chris that feels both real and heightened at the same time. I totally get the love for this episode, it is like a nice 1-hour showcase of all the strengths of The Sopranos in one.

Yeah, I don't think "College" or "Pine Barrens" are worthy of being singled out for the adulation they receive but I think they share a common "fish out of water" theme and show us the mob from a different angle, which is why they're lumped together. They're fine but I like other episodes just as much if not more

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
Honestly like half of my love for Pine Barrens is just that one exchange where the phone connection is bad and Paulie tells Chris that the guy is an interior decorator. I'm guaranteed to laugh my rear end off at that scene no matter how many times I see it.

Ishamael
Feb 18, 2004

You don't have to love me, but you will respect me.

BiggerBoat posted:

Yeah, I don't think "College" or "Pine Barrens" are worthy of being singled out for the adulation they receive but I think they share a common "fish out of water" theme and show us the mob from a different angle, which is why they're lumped together. They're fine but I like other episodes just as much if not more

Which ones would you single out as your favorites?

Personally, I can proselytize at length about Mayham, Isabella, and Whitecaps. They all have moments that have been burned into my brain for a decade or more.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.
For whatever reason this is easily the most memorable episode in the series for me.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Basebf555 posted:

Honestly like half of my love for Pine Barrens is just that one exchange where the phone connection is bad and Paulie tells Chris that the guy is an interior decorator. I'm guaranteed to laugh my rear end off at that scene no matter how many times I see it.

Its true, the phone connection being bad, such a mundane concern made bigger because of the subject, is great. Also that we the audience know what was said but they don't, some fun irony there.

Reminds me of the Japanese game show silent library where for some reason having to be quiet makes it funnier. Something about the context is key to the humor.

crispix
Mar 28, 2015

Grand-Maman m'a raconté
(Les éditions des amitiés franco-québécoises)

Hello, dear
Irena improvising by pretending to be Mrs Washington from the high-school for Little Anthony in her thick Russian accent, instead of just hanging up, always cracks me up too.

Pine Barrens will always be special for me because it was the first of The Sopranos that I ever watched when it first aired here. I wasn't very old at the time and was ill and it was on TV. For many years thereafter before I got into the show, the first thing that came to mind when anyone talked about The Sopranos was

quote:

PAAAAAAAULIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, CHRISTUUUUPHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

crispix fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jun 25, 2019

Mameluke
Aug 2, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Basebf555 posted:

Honestly like half of my love for Pine Barrens is just that one exchange where the phone connection is bad and Paulie tells Chris that the guy is an interior decorator. I'm guaranteed to laugh my rear end off at that scene no matter how many times I see it.

I think it's even funnier robbed of context on Youtube where Tony and Paulie come off like they're in completely different genres

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
If anyone has ever spent time with Russian immigrants you'll know the rug on the wall is such an amazing detail. Every single Russian person I've met has had at a minimum 2 rugs on their living room walls.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Basebf555 posted:

Honestly like half of my love for Pine Barrens is just that one exchange where the phone connection is bad and Paulie tells Chris that the guy is an interior decorator. I'm guaranteed to laugh my rear end off at that scene no matter how many times I see it.

We forgot the best part

Paulie, "You're not gonna believe this! The guy killed 16 Czechoslovakians! He was an interior decorator!"

Chris, "... his house looked like poo poo."

Harold Stassen
Jan 24, 2016
I am remiss for not recently commenting on the outstanding quality of the writeups but I must also say Jerusalem is compelling me to actually watch the show in a different way to fully articulate for myself the underlying sentiments, especially with James Gandolfini who is consistently a compelling actor

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Ishamael posted:

Which ones would you single out as your favorites?

Personally, I can proselytize at length about Mayham, Isabella, and Whitecaps. They all have moments that have been burned into my brain for a decade or more.

Good question. I'd have to think on that. TBH, I like them all, no joke. I've never watched an episode and thought it sucked. People rag on "The Test Dream" but I think it's brilliant.

Without looking at a list, I can't remember which episodes contain the things that stand out to me. I like "The Blue Comet", "Funhouse", "Soprano Home Movies" and "the White in Knight Satin Armor", off the top of my head but, overall, to me, the things that stick in my mind are individual moments and not complete episodes. Certain scenes, dialog and exchanges make the moment(s) for me and the show kind of reads like one huge book or a long movie instead of individual chapters, with each chapter having something I latch on to.

The way the show unfolds adds to it since you can go two episodes before you revisit something that was especially captivating. Before binging was a thing and I could watch on DVD or OnDemand, sometimes I'd forget plot points or even specific characters.

I appreciate the individual, on point character beats and so much of the clever direction, great writing and stellar acting - so much of which is spread out - specially in retrospect and on my umpteenth watch. I still find new poo poo to like and stuff I forgot.

I think "College" and "Pine Barrens" get credit for standing out based mainly on their dichotomy and being SO self contained that they could almost be stand alones. Which is fair enough, but if I watch a best of reel it all blends together for me so, sorry to be so vague but, for me, it's like asking me my favorite chapter of a book

If that makes sense.

COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:

I am remiss for not recently commenting on the outstanding quality of the writeups but I must also say Jerusalem is compelling me to actually watch the show in a different way to fully articulate for myself the underlying sentiments, especially with James Gandolfini who is consistently a compelling actor

Same but I don't have the time.

Some of the "best of" youtube reels scratched that itch for me so maybe try that

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jun 26, 2019

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
I like individual scenes but episodes don't really stand out. I think College was like written up and praised by the new york times or something early on and it just kind of stuck. Sopranos isnt like breaking bad where nothing happens for five episodes and then there's a big release of tension, it kind of has the same pace all the way through.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

No Wave posted:

I like individual scenes but episodes don't really stand out. I think College was like written up and praised by the new york times or something early on and it just kind of stuck. Sopranos isnt like breaking bad where nothing happens for five episodes and then there's a big release of tension, it kind of has the same pace all the way through.

True. But it's similar in the way they'll often ignore entire plot lines of specific characters for an episode or 2.

I watched/binged Sopranos seasons 1-3 on DVD and then watched 4-6 weekly on HBO at 9pm on Sundays. Then I rewatched the whole series straight through on DVD. The difference in the sense of pace and my grasp on the situation was palpable. When I was weekly watching, there were several times where I forgot who the gently caress was who and what was going on because I hadn't seen anything or anyone related to it in 2 or 3 weeks.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Seeing who might have been cast was interesting. Frank Vincent as Uncle Junior? And I know David Proval auditioned for Tony.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
Is Pine Barrens the only episode were you see tony (or anyone else) launder money? They talk about Tony’s w2 from the garbage company a few times, but it seems like they don’t talk a lot about what is one of the major ways they catch people in organized crime

It seems especially odd since tony freaks out about the ports being unsecured and they talk about the fbi focus on anti terrorism, but the patriot act introduced a lot of new rules and regulations aimed at money laundering

EwokEntourage fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jun 26, 2019

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.
I love Paulie losing his shoe in the snow and what a major problem that turns into. Its such a minor thing, a shoe, and its awkward and not remotely cool to lose your shoe in the snow and get terrified of frostbite just from walking around in the snow. But the snow doesn't care that you're a made man, it'll take you out all the same.

Feels like the kind of moment that other shows just wouldn't consider, but its so real. As tough as these wiseguys are, they're just one fuckup away from begging and crying for help.

Also y'all remember this story

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/02/us/oregon-snow-taco-sauce/index.html

we were all making pine barrens jokes when we heard that

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

EwokEntourage posted:

Is Pine Barrens the only episode were you see tony (or anyone else) launder money? They talk about Tony’s w2 from the garbage company a few times, but it seems like they don’t talk a lot about what is one of the major ways they catch people in organized crime

Wasn't Webistics essentially a big money laundering scheme? Like in addition to massive fraud.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Dawgstar posted:

Wasn't Webistics essentially a big money laundering scheme? Like in addition to massive fraud.

Webistics was a pump and dump stock manipulation scheme. You may be able to launder money through that but I'm not sure, I'd think the money you buy the stocks with would have to be clean already.

EwokEntourage
Jun 10, 2008

BREYER: Actually, Antonin, you got it backwards. See, a power bottom is actually generating all the dissents by doing most of the work.

SCALIA: Stephen, I've heard that speed has something to do with it.

BREYER: Speed has everything to do with it.
Yea it’s a pump and dump, which is why the two idiots beat that guy up for pushing different stocks. Also seems like the most complex scam they run

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

EwokEntourage posted:

Yea it’s a pump and dump, which is why the two idiots beat that guy up for pushing different stocks. Also seems like the most complex scam they run

It probably is, although the 'create fake patients to write insurance claims to' HMO scam in the pilot does seem pretty complex, although we never hear of it again despite that it potentially 'could be as good as garbage.'

Food Boner
Jul 2, 2005
whoever recommended poda bing what the gently caress its like thtwy didnt even watch the show

Food Boner
Jul 2, 2005
rewatchin season 1 thats a saeet rear end jag melfi drives

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Food Boner posted:

whoever recommended poda bing what the gently caress its like thtwy didnt even watch the show

I listened to the first couple of them at work and they kept me entertained.

DarkCrawler
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

EwokEntourage posted:

Yea it’s a pump and dump, which is why the two idiots beat that guy up for pushing different stocks. Also seems like the most complex scam they run

What about the Esplanade? I mean it sounds pretty complex and Ralph was basically not murdered by the first person he met in the morning because he seemed to be intelligent enough to be able to do some well, I assume complex stuff...I have no idea how the mafia makes money out of construction though.

Ungratek
Aug 2, 2005


The state guarantees matching funds into whatever the Esplanade costs to build, as well as guarantees regarding costs overruns. This works in the show because the Councilmen will help funnel the contracts to unions/contractors under the thumb of the mob, who can just run wild. The no show/no work jobs come from here (with exorbitant wages), giving everyone health insurance and a W-2 for tax purposes. On top of that, they can just wildly overcharge for materials and time and pocket the difference, while over ordering items (which the matching funds pay for), steal them, and then sell them on the side.

It's the biggest scheme in the show that mirrored real life mafia activity

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe

Ungratek posted:

The state guarantees matching funds into whatever the Esplanade costs to build, as well as guarantees regarding costs overruns. This works in the show because the Councilmen will help funnel the contracts to unions/contractors under the thumb of the mob, who can just run wild. The no show/no work jobs come from here (with exorbitant wages), giving everyone health insurance and a W-2 for tax purposes. On top of that, they can just wildly overcharge for materials and time and pocket the difference, while over ordering items (which the matching funds pay for), steal them, and then sell them on the side.

It's the biggest scheme in the show that mirrored real life mafia activity

Sometimes they're a little more careful on the stealing part. Looting the job sites versus not looting them becomes a recurring source of tension as the show progresses.

Speaking of councilmen, it always felt a little unrealistic to me how openly Zellman would meet with Tony. You'd think he'd have to be more careful with who he meets with in public given his position. But maybe I overestimate how much people would be paying attention.

Jack2142
Jul 17, 2014

Shitposting in Seattle

Ginette Reno posted:

Sometimes they're a little more careful on the stealing part. Looting the job sites versus not looting them becomes a recurring source of tension as the show progresses.

Speaking of councilmen, it always felt a little unrealistic to me how openly Zellman would meet with Tony. You'd think he'd have to be more careful with who he meets with in public given his position. But maybe I overestimate how much people would be paying attention.

I mean in another great show didn't Clay Davis meet with Stringer Bell openly, and Davis was a lot more "prominent" being an actual elected federal official under investigation for corruption.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Jack2142 posted:

I mean in another great show didn't Clay Davis meet with Stringer Bell openly, and Davis was a lot more "prominent" being an actual elected federal official under investigation for corruption.

Davis is more prominent but Stringer Bell is much less so than Tony Soprano. Nobody has any idea who Stringer is(outside of the Major Crimes Unit), right up to his death. Tony is on t.v. all the time as a known mafia boss/capo, or at least associate.

crazy eyes mustafa
Nov 30, 2014
I’ve been wanting to know what was on the inside of that sheepish card more than what happened to valery

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
Fun Shoe

Basebf555 posted:

Davis is more prominent but Stringer Bell is much less so than Tony Soprano. Nobody has any idea who Stringer is(outside of the Major Crimes Unit), right up to his death. Tony is on t.v. all the time as a known mafia boss/capo, or at least associate.

Yeah, that. In fact by the time Stringer starts meeting with Clay, he (Stringer) is pretty insulated from the day to day business operations of the Barksdale organization.

Tony and his associates would be more well known to the locals I would think.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Ginette Reno posted:

Yeah, that. In fact by the time Stringer starts meeting with Clay, he (Stringer) is pretty insulated from the day to day business operations of the Barksdale organization.

Tony and his associates would be more well known to the locals I would think.

It's actually one of the main themes of the entire series, that the cops are so tied up in piling up statistics that they really put no effort into knowing anything about the actual organization that controls half the city's drug trade. And the feds are still living in the past where they think of "organized crime" as an Italian mafia thing, and really they're much more interested in arresting "terrorists" than guys in the inner city who provide no fanfare and attention when you catch them.

I mean, a major plot point in Season 1 is that the Baltimore PD doesn't even have a picture of the kingpin who runs half the city, and there are only a small handful of cops who even know Avon Barksdale exists. All of that is doubly true for Stringer, because he really is just a guy who hangs out in the background and advises Avon, then when he steps into a more direct role the police department has moved on because they got their man(Avon).

Ginette Reno
Nov 18, 2006

How Doers get more done
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Basebf555 posted:

It's actually one of the main themes of the entire series, that the cops are so tied up in piling up statistics that they really put no effort into knowing anything about the actual organization that controls half the city's drug trade. And the feds are still living in the past where they think of "organized crime" as an Italian mafia thing, and really they're much more interested in arresting "terrorists" than guys in the inner city who provide no fanfare and attention when you catch them.

I mean, a major plot point in Season 1 is that the Baltimore PD doesn't even have a picture of the kingpin who runs half the city, and there are only a small handful of cops who even know Avon Barksdale exists. All of that is doubly true for Stringer, because he really is just a guy who hangs out in the background and advises Avon, then when he steps into a more direct role the police department has moved on because they got their man(Avon).

Yeah, and one other point to remember is Tony is being investigated by the FBI whereas in the Wire the FBI doesn't give any shits about the Baltimore drug trade. The Baltimore drug trade was being investigated only by local police. Local police are generally understaffed and certainly underpaid compared to the FBI which has nearly limitless funding in comparison.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

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Ginette Reno posted:

Yeah, and one other point to remember is Tony is being investigated by the FBI whereas in the Wire the FBI doesn't give any shits about the Baltimore drug trade. The Baltimore drug trade was being investigated only by local police. Local police are generally understaffed and certainly underpaid compared to the FBI which has nearly limitless funding in comparison.

At several points McNulty tries to bring his FBI buddy in on the case he's building so that they can get their hands on those limitless resources but they get shut down every time because the FBI just doesn't care about inner city drug cases.

Anyway I'll shut up about The Wire, Jerusalem already did a fantastic thread on that show.

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Ginette Reno posted:

Yeah, that. In fact by the time Stringer starts meeting with Clay, he (Stringer) is pretty insulated from the day to day business operations of the Barksdale organization.

Tony and his associates would be more well known to the locals I would think.

Yeah, if you want a reason why, I mean they throw a Christmas party every year, a tradition Johnny Boy started. Nobody's unaware their kid's getting a present from the neighborhood's capo.

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