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Strom Cuzewon posted:Also wouldn't the rock hoppers be the normal looking ones? If you're on a ship you're going to be under 1g most of the time, it's the station-dwellers that would be tall and skinny. I'd figure that Rockhoppers spend most of their time at the standard cruising acceleration of 0.3g, and also a solid amount of time on the float when they're stopped at a rock. That's the lucky ones who can afford an Epstein drive, IIRC the poorest rockhoppers can't even swing that and have to hop rocks on old-fashioned chemical/teakettle thrusters and spend 99% of their time on the float. There're also some inhabited celestial bodies like Pallas that aren't spun up and have negligible gravity for the people living inside, too.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:46
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Not sure if it's in the show or the books, but they mention that ships usually cruise at less than 1g for the comfort of the Belters and Martians. I think a baby Belter would have to spend a significant percentage of his childhood on a 1g-cruising spaceship to avoid that tall, skinny, low-g development.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:47
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The thing I really don't get is why the UN Navy doesn't make a point of taking advantage of the fact that their crews can all take like 3x as much gravity as everyone else's and burn 3x as hard everywhere. Make your standard cruising a full gee while everyone else has to live at 0.3, and in combat too you can push your crews harder, if the Martians can make 8g with juice you can probably pull off 10, etc.
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Jul 15, 2019 15:52
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Don't martian soldiers train in 1g? Seems like they'd make sure their sailors can handle high g
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Jul 15, 2019 16:08
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Bobbie's ~elite operator Force Recon~ branch does at least, I don't know if they consistently train the entire navy at 1g though. And even if you do a weekly 1g drill or whatever, you'll still never match someone who's body grew up under 1g 24/7/365, your bones will never be quite as strong, your blood vessels never quite as thick, your muscles and motor control will never be quite as used to it, etc. Like, Bobby's an elite tacticool hyper-operator who's the best of the best Mars had, and just trying to walk around and live a normal civilian life in 1g still whooped her rear end. There's no way she could handle being shot at in 1g, or trying to fly across the entire system under a 1g burn. I don't doubt that Mars trains like hell to survive and work under high-g combat conditions, any professional navy would and say what you will about the Dusters but they're definitely professionals. But training to survive a few hours under high-g for a battle isn't gonna do you much good if you need to race someone from your fleet base in the Belt out to a battle developing in the Saturn system and the other guys can sustain 3x the acceleration that you can without even breaking a sweat. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 15, 2019 |
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Jul 15, 2019 16:18
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StashAugustine posted:Don't martian soldiers train in 1g? Seems like they'd make sure their sailors can handle high g Mostly propaganda, given the way martian military personnel react to actually experiencing 1g the first time they set foot on Earth. Some elite forces might actually do it often enough that they can sort of handle it, sometimes, but a lifetime of living at less can't be fully compensated for by adult training. Earthers will simply always have a big physical advantage over any other humans, (though of course any given individuals can have other factors that overcome that), due to that disparity of upbringing and how it affects their physiology. (Of course, martians and belters would argue that earthers are *too* solid, and that has drawbacks of its own, so...)
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Jul 15, 2019 16:23
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I was rewatching the first season last night and I liked the bit where theyre trying to decide who gets sedated to save air and Alex suggests Amos because "he's an earther, he breathes more"
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Jul 15, 2019 16:47
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Crazycryodude posted:The thing I really don't get is why the UN Navy doesn't make a point of taking advantage of the fact that their crews can all take like 3x as much gravity as everyone else's and burn 3x as hard everywhere. Make your standard cruising a full gee while everyone else has to live at 0.3, and in combat too you can push your crews harder, if the Martians can make 8g with juice you can probably pull off 10, etc. Because you need to be able to arrest that speed as quickly as the enemy does.
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Jul 15, 2019 17:54
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EimiYoshikawa posted:Mostly propaganda, given the way martian military personnel react to actually experiencing 1g the first time they set foot on Earth. I thought that was less the 1G and more the sun and atmosphere that messed them up.
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Jul 15, 2019 17:56
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Thom12255 posted:I thought that was less the 1G and more the sun and atmosphere that messed them up. Yeah, non-Earthers tend to have panic attacks about HOLY poo poo WHERE IS THE CEILING
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Jul 15, 2019 18:06
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Thom12255 posted:I thought that was less the 1G and more the sun and atmosphere that messed them up. It was intended that gravity was a factor. IIRC, they put weights on the Martian actor's ankles, bodies, and wrists to really give them the look that they were struggling with it! May have just been Frankie Adams, though. Toast Museum posted:Yeah, non-Earthers tend to have panic attacks about HOLY poo poo WHERE IS THE CEILING But also this. Fun(ish?) story, one time my cat, who had always been inside at that point, ran out the front door and had an immediate and obvious panic attack upon realizing there was no roof...
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Jul 15, 2019 18:10
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Toast Museum posted:Yeah, non-Earthers tend to have panic attacks about HOLY poo poo WHERE IS THE CEILING Non-Earthers are literally Dwarves.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:10
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:It was intended that gravity was a factor. IIRC, they put weights on the Martian actor's ankles, bodies, and wrists to really give them the look that they were struggling with it! May have just been Frankie Adams, though. I can't remember how much of a problem Bobbie had with it. I only remember the guy who falls over who just looks like some office dude so he probably hasn't been trained vigorously like a Martian marine to handle the gravity.
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Jul 15, 2019 18:14
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Thom12255 posted:I can't remember how much of a problem Bobbie had with it. I only remember the guy who falls over who just looks like some office dude so he probably hasn't been trained vigorously like a Martian marine to handle the gravity. At least in the books, Bobbie can operate normally but finds it exhausting and irritating until she gets back to 0.3g.
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Jul 15, 2019 19:42
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If folks push out to the new worlds through the Ring Gate, and no other interplanetary crises threatened all civilization, I wonder if lanky Belters would become a tiny, liminal culture like some of the deep Pacific Island that are trying to keep their cultures intact today.
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Jul 15, 2019 20:33
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ZorajitZorajit posted:If folks push out to the new worlds through the Ring Gate, and no other interplanetary crises threatened all civilization, I wonder if lanky Belters would become a tiny, liminal culture like some of the deep Pacific Island that are trying to keep their cultures intact today. I'm more wondering what happens to Martian culture now that terraforming Mars is kinda pointless
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Jul 15, 2019 21:26
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StashAugustine posted:I'm more wondering what happens to Martian culture now that terraforming Mars is kinda pointless stay tuned!
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Jul 15, 2019 22:43
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StashAugustine posted:I'm more wondering what happens to Martian culture now that terraforming Mars is kinda pointless They will whine about how the next generation is too soft and start subscribing to the martian version of the NY Post.
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Jul 16, 2019 00:01
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I don't see the majority of martians coming to the conclusion that the terraforming project is pointless anytime soon. Sure, they could just go find a new Earth out there somewhere, but the dream of Mars has always been to turn a lifeless rock into a garden. Maybe that changes after a generation or two of seeing everyone else get their own planet, but being tied to the red dustball is the core of the culture they've built.
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Jul 16, 2019 00:49
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If I had the choice I'd definitely be on the next colony ship out to somewhere that's got all the pure liquid water, clean air, and natural sunlight you could ever want just laying around for free rather than stay crammed into my hamster warren on the promise that maybe 80 years from now I'll get to see the first lichens introduced topside. But OTOH Martians are kinda nuts like that so who knows.
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Jul 16, 2019 00:52
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The gatebuilders also might've thought Venus was the habitable planet so who knows where the other gates lead... 
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Jul 16, 2019 01:14
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:The gatebuilders also might've thought Venus was the habitable planet so who knows where the other gates lead... Venus doesn't have any biological matter for the protomolecule to build from, so I doubt it.
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Jul 16, 2019 07:58
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Flatscan posted:Venus doesn't have any biological matter for the protomolecule to build from, so I doubt it. Does the matter have to be biological? I that all matter was usable?
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Jul 16, 2019 08:39
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notaspy posted:Does the matter have to be biological? I that all matter was usable? It specifically wants biomass and ionizing radiation. That's why Protogen fed it Eros instead of just some random uninhabited asteroid.
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Jul 16, 2019 08:41
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notaspy posted:Does the matter have to be biological? I that all matter was usable? the scientists in the show/book say that it specifically targets organic life (even though human scientists easily make it so it can eat spaceships) but it doesn't really make any sense. tech as advanced as the protomolecule shouldn't differentiate between "living" and "dead" matter, but that's how it's wrote, so remember that it is just a show and we should really just relax.
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Jul 16, 2019 08:43
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uber_stoat posted:the scientists in the show/book say that it specifically targets organic life (even though human scientists easily make it so it can eat spaceships) but it doesn't really make any sense. tech as advanced as the protomolecule shouldn't differentiate between "living" and "dead" matter, but that's how it's wrote, so remember that it is just a show and we should really just relax. It makes perfect sense given the context of why the protomolecule exists. This isn't really a spoiler at this point but I don't remember if it is explicit on the show yet: The protomolecule isn't just out to build gates to any old star system, it's specifically building gates to star sytems that contain an Earth-like planet with a biosphere for the protomolecule aliens to colonize. Having it consume dead matter to build a gate to nowhere is a waste of their time. So it doesn't work unless it hits a planet that would be usable. E: Now that I'm thinking about it the part that doesn't make sense is it feeding off ionizing radiation. An Earth-like planet is going to have air and water and a magnetosphere that block all but a token amount of that. It should feed on visible/infrared light. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Jul 16, 2019 |
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Jul 16, 2019 08:47
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I thought it fed off all radiation, it's just, you know, gamma is so much more energetic than visible.
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Jul 16, 2019 09:40
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Thom12255 posted:I thought that was less the 1G and more the sun and atmosphere that messed them up. If i remember right Bobbie has a bit of an internal monologue when she lands about how she believed that the countless hours she spent training would have sufficiently prepared her for a potential invasion of earth, and how the moment she leaves the shuttle she realises that no amount of training can remove the fact that they would be going up against a planet with a population that has lived with1G from the moment they are born and the martians wouldn't stand a chance. She also understands their commanders already knew this and it was all just propaganda.
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Jul 16, 2019 10:46
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kanonvandekempen posted:If i remember right Bobbie has a bit of an internal monologue when she lands about how she believed that the countless hours she spent training would have sufficiently prepared her for a potential invasion of earth, and how the moment she leaves the shuttle she realises that no amount of training can remove the fact that they would be going up against a planet with a population that has lived with1G from the moment they are born and the martians wouldn't stand a chance. There's a great scene on the show when Bobby gets off the shuttle and all of the Martians are struggling with the gravity: they all looked weighed-down and sluggish. Then Bobby sees a seagull just floating, effortlessly on the wind and you can tell by her face it just crushes her...the all consuming knowledge that it was always just propaganda.
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Jul 16, 2019 13:43
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Earth should invade mars with an army of seagulls.
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Jul 16, 2019 15:57
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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:I thought it fed off all radiation, it's just, you know, gamma is so much more energetic than visible. It might, I haven't read Leviathan in a long time.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:05
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I can't recall whether the show puts it in these terms, but the Protomolecule's MO isn't infecting organisms, per se, but repurposing replicating systems.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:41
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Also, just because it can use radiation as food/fuel doesn't mean that's what it was sent there to do. I always figured it was sent after biomass to in order to construct a ring and human scientists just discovered that the proto molecule reacts strongly to radiation. Other than the stuff in the Anubis (where the PM had no place else to go AND reached away from the reactor to snag more sweet BMs) and the monster they engineered did we ever see PM actively seek out radiation?
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Jul 16, 2019 18:45
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I can, in a pinch, live off beans and rice. But if something more tasty is around I'm going to bee-line to that poo poo straight past the things I can technically subsist off of. I imagine the protomolecule worked the same way, sure it could make-do with venus but a station full of incredibly complex thinking meat was way more tasty.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:50
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The protomolecule just wants canned chicken. No chicken? Back of the line!
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Jul 16, 2019 18:54
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It's pretty clear that it was intended to hijack life to open a communication channel with it's masters. When it doesn't get a response it reaches out to the locals via protomolecule Miller. It then doesn't get the answer it wants and decides to open the gate to see why the masters aren't responding It seems to have been designed to hijack life closer to the primordial soup stage and not even single cell level. It attempted to communicate 113 times every second for a very long time before attempting to drive to Earth to get enough mass. It targeted Earth because it was not designed to have other parts of it think, which Julie was. Julie just wanted to go home. Eventually she directed it to Jupiter to construct the ring after a bit of convincing from Miller. Everyone that was on that station is very likely still thinking and conscious as part of that ring. It is both horribly wrong to allow the ring to continue to exist and to destroy it. It represents so much potential to spread humanity to the stars and explore new worlds. It's also torture for anyone stuck as part of the gate.
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Jul 16, 2019 18:57
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Venus, not Jupiter
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Jul 16, 2019 19:04
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the books are more explicit about how it feels to be "simulated" by the protomolecule. the bit in the show where Miller talks about "exceeding my boundary conditions" hints at it.
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Jul 16, 2019 20:27
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pixaal posted:It seems to have been designed to hijack life closer to the primordial soup stage and not even single cell level. It attempted to communicate 113 times every second for a very long time before attempting to drive to Earth to get enough mass. It targeted Earth because it was not designed to have other parts of it think, which Julie was. Julie just wanted to go home. Eventually she directed it to Jupiter to construct the ring after a bit of convincing from Miller.
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Jul 16, 2019 21:03
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uber_stoat posted:the books are more explicit about how it feels to be "simulated" by the protomolecule. the bit in the show where Miller talks about "exceeding my boundary conditions" hints at it. The description of occupying the exact same space as miller was something I was really interested with how they would deal with in the show. They just skipped it. Still mad about not seeing if my mental image of that scene matched up to the producers.
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Jul 16, 2019 21:04
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