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The only Age of Sail stuff I've seen working on-screen are dashing captains with one ship cruising about - stuff like the Master and Commander movie. As far as I am aware (please tell me if I'm wrong) there's no movie about Trafalgar, or the Invincible Armada, or any of the other great fleet actions - and fleet actions are where the flaws I'm referring to really bite. Pacific-theater WWII was a war of fleet actions more than anything else. There's a place for dashing-captain movies to stick to historical footing, but it is a very small place.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:35
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Gnoman posted:The only Age of Sail stuff I've seen working on-screen are dashing captains with one ship cruising about - stuff like the Master and Commander movie. As far as I am aware (please tell me if I'm wrong) there's no movie about Trafalgar, or the Invincible Armada, or any of the other great fleet actions - and fleet actions are where the flaws I'm referring to really bite.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:48
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The effects budget problem would be hard to overcome, but I think you could find some interesting lines to follow through specific engagements. Captain Buckmaster at Midway comes to mind. Commanding a carrier, taking to the flyers, taking orders from Admiral Fletcher, giving the orders under air attack... A good writer would have a lot to work with.
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Sep 3, 2019 04:53
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Gnoman posted:
Essentially this. There's room for movies about anything, but you don't get mass-market appeal from the most technically oriented branch of the military. Ships, modern ships especially, are just big weapons platforms where the individual is obviously unimportant. You can just make up an excuse for people to board each other and swashbuckle, that's good hollywood, but it also isn't really WWII.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:05
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:the individual is obviously unimportant. for that matter, look at battlestar galactica or star trek
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Sep 3, 2019 05:17
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Zorak of Michigan posted:A good writer would have a lot to work with. I've got some bad news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd8OsSdXEGc
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Sep 3, 2019 05:32
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HEY GUNS posted:for that matter, look at battlestar galactica or star trek Both BSG and ST are long-form storytelling. They're primarily TV series, and that gives them time to develop the entire cast to the point where the audience can care about their individual lives, even with the loose continuity of ST or old BSG or the plat trainwreck that new BSG turned into. If we spend a lot of time with #4 AA gunner, get to see his hobbies, his letters from home, the way he interacts with his crewmates, what he does on leave, and all the other stuff no movie would have time for, the dramatic and story possibilities multiply exponentially. Movies don't have the time to do that very well for one character, let alone a dozen or more. The modern tight-continuity TV show has massive potential for this kind of work, and studios are pretty clearly grabbing the idea. Right now this is mostly restricted to series very grounded in reality, remakes of older shows or adaptations of works that were formerly "you couldn't possibly film this". Get the right kind of interest brewing, and you could do anything.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:35
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've got some bad news. No such movie exists, nor will be allowed to exist, within the interior of my consciousness.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:38
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Gnoman posted:The modern tight-continuity TV show has massive potential for this kind of work, and studios are pretty clearly grabbing the idea. Right now this is mostly restricted to series very grounded in reality, remakes of older shows or adaptations of works that were formerly "you couldn't possibly film this". Get the right kind of interest brewing, and you could do anything.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:45
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You could do a Dunkirk style delivery where you've got three component stories that cover different overlapping periods of time - that way you're covering a carrier group's admiral for 18 hrs as they chase down and engage an enemy fleet, a ship captain for 6 hrs at the height of the battle as his crew fights off airstrikes while spotting strikes of their own, and idk Dick Best over a 2 hour window where he puts his bombs down the elevator of Akagi. From what I've heard, though, that 'overlapping stories at different speeds' thing was not very well received.
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Sep 3, 2019 07:22
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FAUXTON posted:You could do a Dunkirk style delivery where you've got three component stories that cover different overlapping periods of time - that way you're covering a carrier group's admiral for 18 hrs as they chase down and engage an enemy fleet, a ship captain for 6 hrs at the height of the battle as his crew fights off airstrikes while spotting strikes of their own, and idk Dick Best over a 2 hour window where he puts his bombs down the elevator of Akagi.
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Sep 3, 2019 07:32
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HEY GUNS posted:this has been done, it's star wars Spruance: IT'S A TRAP!
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Sep 3, 2019 07:47
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FAUXTON posted:You could do a Dunkirk style delivery where you've got three component stories that cover different overlapping periods of time - that way you're covering a carrier group's admiral for 18 hrs as they chase down and engage an enemy fleet, a ship captain for 6 hrs at the height of the battle as his crew fights off airstrikes while spotting strikes of their own, and idk Dick Best over a 2 hour window where he puts his bombs down the elevator of Akagi. 
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Sep 3, 2019 11:04
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Arquinsiel posted:A lot of people really hated it for some reason. I thought it was great A lot of people don't know poo poo!  I was yesterday years old when I learned of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leros Notable because you usually thing the Germans stopped dropping paras after Crete, yet here they are, dropping on some Greek rock again, dying victoriously. The whole read is wild, you have 1. Dumb British officers 2. Inter-Allied disagreements 3. lol what's air cover 4. Paratrooper disaster 5. CAS going beast on parked ships 6. Subs delivering supplies and men 7. Executions!
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Sep 3, 2019 11:40
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Arquinsiel posted:A lot of people really hated it for some reason. I thought it was great It was confusing at first but on second watch it really clicks. On my second watch after the power of books it works more, I am just annoyed the French and British rear guard got shafted.
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Sep 3, 2019 12:23
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Arquinsiel posted:A lot of people really hated it for some reason. I thought it was great I liked it but I also expect Nolan to gently caress around with the perception of time in movies so when they popped up those captions like "THE MOLE: 3 DAYS" I caught on pretty quick and figured out who was where and when. It wasn't anything as convoluted as interstellar or inception but it's a little disorienting to have the story cutting between day and night the way it does if you don't catch those. I also think people were expecting something closer to Saving Private Ryan with pitched street battles and tanks and stuff. It's probably off-putting if you expect a line of Tommies valiantly holding off panzers.
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Sep 3, 2019 12:31
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Essentially this. There's room for movies about anything, but you don't get mass-market appeal from the most technically oriented branch of the military. Ships, modern ships especially, are just big weapons platforms where the individual is obviously unimportant. You can just make up an excuse for people to board each other and swashbuckle, that's good hollywood, but it also isn't really WWII. We haven't even gotten a good [really bad] submarine movie in a long time.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:02
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I liked the time fuckery but overal it's probably my least favorite Nolan film I've seen purely because his insistence on only practical effects kept throwing ahistorical details that even my non historian rear end catches. The container terminals in the background in particular. I recognize this is mostly me being a mierenneuker.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:08
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Cythereal posted:We haven't even gotten a good [really bad] submarine movie in a long time. Did Hunter Killer pass you by in 2018? That film is BAD. Fun, but baaaad.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:10
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It's like you lot don't even appreciate Battleship. 
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Sep 3, 2019 13:15
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AlexanderCA posted:I liked the time fuckery but overal it's probably my least favorite Nolan film I've seen purely because his insistence on only practical effects kept throwing ahistorical details that even my non historian rear end catches. The container terminals in the background in particular. I recognize this is mostly me being a mierenneuker. While we're still grousing I feel even if it was just focused on one section with the Guards the beach was still not cluttered enough, CG could have fixed this. I also think this scene from an older film (Atonement) captures the chaos that occurred just off the beaches and in actual Dunkirk quite well.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:16
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Did that guy ever do a write up of USMC(?) doing riverine raids during the american revolution
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Sep 3, 2019 13:27
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I would kinda defend Nolan's decision here. In Dunkirk, the depiction of the Beach is also a symbolic representation of the British's strategic position. It's not that accurate to how things looked, but the feel being invoked is that of isolation and exposure.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:31
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I mean you can still invoke that feeling with stacks of abandoned gear and sabotaged vehicles/dead bodies shrouded in their ground capes. It looked very clean and sparse for a beach that was pretty crammed. Plus the shots from the sea and air in other scenes did this. I mean for the final days when the evacuation was almost done it'd be fine. But the beach was missing the amount of useless kit and sad dead that would have added more to the gravity IMO.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:32
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SeanBeansShako posted:I mean you can still invoke that feeling with stacks of abandoned gear and sabotaged vehicles/dead bodies shrouded in their ground capes. It looked very clean and sparse for a beach that was pretty crammed. Plus the shots from the sea and air in other scenes did this. I think having people line up neatly does make for a stronger imagery when the planes come in and everyone panics. Like there's definitely some pretty inaccurate stuff in there but the general feel is okay I think.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:39
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I got no problem with the lines now, I thought that was well done. I just wish had a bigger CG/set budget to really sell the cramped nature and debris of the BEF that had to be left behind. Speaking of WW2 entertainment while Das Boot gets a second series I am still bemused/saddened the US Bombers one seems to be forever stuck in development hell.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:42
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Polyakov posted:Did Hunter Killer pass you by in 2018? This is the first I've ever heard of the movie, yeah.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:13
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The sinking ship was a total dude too. I recall some problems with it instantly going from under steam to no steam and anchors out. It’s been awhile though.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:15
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Dunkirk: -British soldiers getting shot up at the start in a French town, walk for 5 minutes and are at the beaches of Dunkirk, then wait forever until they get lifted off the beaches or stay behind. Makes no sense for the opening scene. -The long shot of everyone and everything on the beach was cool, but felt like they spent all their budget for that scene as the later beach scenes didn't look anywhere near the same. -Not as many bombings/shellings of the beaches as I would have expected -Very little French representation -He-111 rear gunners don't sound like that! -While I liked the multiple stories, it cut too frequently between them without keeping the viewer informed as to when things were taking place. I recall timestamps, but for such a long movie, maybe a different approach would've been better. -Running out of fuel, gliding all the way to Dunkirk, landing in sand, and then burning down your own plane is very weird considering how he was gliding over lines of men waiting to be picked up and suddenly its night outside. And the pilot never thought to ditch in the sea next to an evacuating boat. Its been a while so I may be forgetting/confounding stuff but those were my biggest gripes with the movie. Good, but not great. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 15:03 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 14:59
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When I watched it I got the impression that he landed to surrender to the Germans, hence burning the plane and hanging around waiting to get captured.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:28
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Ensign Expendable posted:When I watched it I got the impression that he landed to surrender to the Germans, hence burning the plane and hanging around waiting to get captured. It looked like the same area where the Germans were shooting at the boat with the dudes hiding in it, but like... why surrender to the Germans if you don't have to?
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Sep 3, 2019 15:32
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Yeah he was more or less coasting on fumes and I assumed by the time he'd circle and find a flat space spot to land possibly outside the shrinking perimeter the last of the boats were long gone.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:33
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Jobbo_Fett posted:It looked like the same area where the Germans were shooting at the boat with the dudes hiding in it, but like... why surrender to the Germans if you don't have to? Because you can't be arsed to keep fighting and you know that as a British officer you're probably going to have a pretty good time as a POW compared to most people?
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Sep 3, 2019 15:36
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Ensign Expendable posted:Because you can't be arsed to keep fighting and you know that as a British officer you're probably going to have a pretty good time as a POW compared to most people? Given Tom Hardy's lack of emotion during the film, I'd believe this.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:41
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Oh poo poo, I totally forgot. The Stukas looked like poo poo
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Sep 3, 2019 15:49
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JcDent posted:A lot of people don't know poo poo! Mussolini called Leros the "Corregidor of the Mediterranean", meanwhile Americans called Corregidor the "Gibraltar of the East". I think this type of thing needs to spread more, I want to know who is the Montgomery of Russia or Göring of America!
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Sep 3, 2019 15:50
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Nenonen posted:Mussolini called Leros the "Corregidor of the Mediterranean", meanwhile Americans called Corregidor the "Gibraltar of the East". I think this type of thing needs to spread more, I want to know who is the Montgomery of Russia or Göring of America! Vasilevsky and Patton respectively.
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Sep 3, 2019 15:52
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I've got some bad news. You know, considering that big chunks of this are nominally Hawaii before it was even a US state, that is an aggressive amount of only showing white people. Like to the point that it couldn't be accidental, someone was definitely spending effort to white-wash this.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:14
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Vasilevsky and Patton respectively. macarthur, surely
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Sep 3, 2019 16:32
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Googling Corregidor brought me to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_at_Cabanatuan Look at those Japanese casualties, you'd think the raid was conducted using Holy Hand Grenades E: the wiki article on Battle of Corregidor is written in a strangely conversational tone and puts some strange emphasis on "knee mortars" contributing to the victory over the 4th Marine Regiment.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:36
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