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zoux posted:Wikipedia is being DDoSed, can someone tell me about the Amritsar Massacre As has often been the case in history, using Army troops to do riot/crowd control is a seriously bad idea. See also: Peterloo massacre, Boston massacre, Bloody Sunday etc.
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Sep 10, 2019 19:39
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Now we're going to add robots to the mix soon, lets see what happens!
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Sep 10, 2019 19:59
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Sep 10, 2019 20:00
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I am protected
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Sep 10, 2019 21:03
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SeanBeansShako posted:I strongly suspect it is more of a case of them trying to squirm away from bad PR and paying the survivors descendants/Indian government money. This is usually the case with previous Japanese governments too, although both the PRC, ROC, and ROK absolved Japan of all responsibility at different points through treaties and agreements.
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Sep 10, 2019 22:03
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It's double stupid cuz it seems like admitting responsibility is the best thing you can do in this situation. Like imagine a world with a nazi yasukuni shrine. I can't imagine Poland, Israel, Russia, etc having quite so decent a relationship with that Germany. (then again those all did have good relations with the DDR, eehhhhhhhhhhhh)
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Sep 10, 2019 23:54
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There have been apologies, statements, made but nothing like the reparations campaign West Germany did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan Allegedly Hirohito tried to apologize formally to MacArthur but he wouldn't admit Hirohito, so it couldn't be accepted.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:09
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You kinda hit up against the fact that for a long time, big wars involving killing a lot of people or your country brutally enforcing its will on somebody else used to be considered a glorious thing to have a lot of pride in and still is at the core of most nationalism. The main risk is offending the perpetrators and those who take pride in their actions. Or take pride in the actions that were just adjacent to the atrocity and maybe tangentially related. There's also people who have personal philosophies built up around the idea of never having to say sorry. It can be a little bit of political risk for the nebulous benefit of doing something right.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's double stupid cuz it seems like admitting responsibility is the best thing you can do in this situation. Like imagine a world with a nazi yasukuni shrine. I can't imagine Poland, Israel, Russia, etc having quite so decent a relationship with that Germany. The German equivalent would be some kind of privately owned military cemetery that also happened to be older than actual Nazi administration and also hosted a museum curated by Herman Goering's grand-nephew in a building formerly occupied by an insurance agency.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:27
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's double stupid cuz it seems like admitting responsibility is the best thing you can do in this situation. Like imagine a world with a nazi yasukuni shrine. I can't imagine Poland, Israel, Russia, etc having quite so decent a relationship with that Germany. If a Hard Brexit occur the government will have to come to terms and say sorry for past Imperial crimes because all we'll get is maybe pity trade from former Commonwealth and Dominion nations. So it best put on their best groveling pants! Slim Jim Pickens posted:The German equivalent would be some kind of privately owned military cemetery that also happened to be older than actual Nazi administration and also hosted a museum curated by Herman Goering's grand-nephew in a building formerly occupied by an insurance agency. RUNNING MAN 2 OLD FOR THIS poo poo.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:28
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I know that there have been war crimes as long as there have been wars but when did the ideas of "war crime" and "atrocity" develop, and what were the first instances widely recognized as such? Was it prior to WW II
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Sep 11, 2019 00:35
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SeanBeansShako posted:If a Hard Brexit occur the government will have to come to terms and say sorry for past Imperial crimes because all we'll get is maybe pity trade from former Commonwealth and Dominion nations. I dunno, North Ireland and Scotland will probably do fine after they do their own Brexits. 
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Sep 11, 2019 01:08
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feedmegin posted:As has often been the case in history, using Army troops to do riot/crowd control is a seriously bad idea. See also: Peterloo massacre, Boston massacre, Bloody Sunday etc.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:44
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zoux posted:I know that there have been war crimes as long as there have been wars but when did the ideas of "war crime" and "atrocity" develop, and what were the first instances widely recognized as such? Was it prior to WW II Well, the idea of just vs unjust war goes way back. Like St Augustine in the 4th century at least in a European judo-Christian framework and probably earlier, plus whatever other people were doing in other times and places. That said, our modern system based on a nebulous idea if international law is very much a product of the mid-late 19th C.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:49
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:The German equivalent would be some kind of privately owned military cemetery that also happened to be older than actual Nazi administration and also hosted a museum curated by Herman Goering's grand-nephew in a building formerly occupied by an insurance agency.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:01
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zoux posted:I know that there have been war crimes as long as there have been wars but when did the ideas of "war crime" and "atrocity" develop, and what were the first instances widely recognized as such? Was it prior to WW II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Grotius Cyrano4747 posted:That said, our modern system based on a nebulous idea if international law is very much a product of the mid-late 19th C. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 02:02
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Cyrano4747 posted:That said, our modern system based on a nebulous idea if international law is very much a product of the mid-late 19th C. My Civil Procedure professor said that the essence of personal jurisdiction (what state can haul your rear end into court; this underlies most of international law and comity) dated to the 1648 Treaty of Westphalia. 1. States have all power within their borders. 2. States have no power without their borders. ...things got increasingly complicated from that point, but I appreciated the starting ideas. HEY GUNS posted:16th and 17th, sorry man 
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Sep 11, 2019 02:52
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Hmm what metaphor can we use to help people understand the insane amounts of energy released by the Chicxulub impact event Ah, of course. 10 billion 21 kt atomic bombs, that commonly understood scale.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:13
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HEY GUNS posted:most of goering's relatives were anti-nazi, this is more like himmler's daughter, who was totally into it Göring‘s daughter was totally into it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOxR2rLFUMo&t=199s Start at 3:20 zoux posted:Hmm what metaphor can we use to help people understand the insane amounts of energy released by the Chicxulub impact event I think that despite this being a very large number, it is an O.K. choice because it’s like every person on the planet turned into Little Boy.
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Sep 11, 2019 04:03
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/kayaburgess/status/1171385248464146433 There was an anti-British protest in a contained area, so they opened fire on the crowd. Then they brought in Maxim guns. It wasn't crowd control it was flat out murder.
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Sep 11, 2019 04:57
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Platystemon posted:
No see that's a good metaphor
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Sep 11, 2019 05:50
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zoux posted:No see that's a good metaphor Actually, it’s a simile.
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Sep 11, 2019 05:56
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Platystemon posted:Actually, it’s a simile.
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Sep 11, 2019 05:57
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HEY GUNS posted:early modern legal theorists were entirely into the idea that there could be legal or illegal wars. GARS was into media and what new media could do for him and he had a legal justification for his acts published shortly after he made landfall at Stralsund Yeah, even before he set sail he held speeches to his councillors about wether this war was a just one and should he inflict more misery on his subjects. It was theatre, of course, but very important theatre.
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Sep 11, 2019 06:19
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Ataxerxes posted:Yeah, even before he set sail he held speeches to his councillors about wether this war was a just one and should he inflict more misery on his subjects. It was theatre, of course, but very important theatre.
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Sep 11, 2019 08:09
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HEY GUNS posted:say what you will about protestantism, gars "got" new media. well the new media enabled protestantism in the first place
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Sep 11, 2019 08:32
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sullat posted:There was an anti-British protest in a contained area, so they opened fire on the crowd. Then they brought in Maxim guns. It wasn't crowd control it was flat out murder. They just did it with 1650, .303s from lee Enfields. Col. Dyer posted:Supposing the passage was sufficient to allow the armoured cars to go in, would you have opened fire with the machine guns? Col. Dyer posted:He stated later that this act "was not to disperse the meeting but to punish the Indians for disobedience."
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Sep 11, 2019 09:25
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They did get the armoured cars into Croke Park a year later.
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Sep 11, 2019 10:50
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zoux posted:Hmm what metaphor can we use to help people understand the insane amounts of energy released by the Chicxulub impact event More like "1 KT", ammirite?
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Sep 11, 2019 11:05
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zoux posted:Hmm what metaphor can we use to help people understand the insane amounts of energy released by the Chicxulub impact event To be fair here, cold war nukes are kinda incomprehensible in terms of destructive power. The Hiroshima bomb is kinda the most relatable unit for most people. Fangz fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 11:14
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Schadenboner posted:More like "1 KT", ammirite? 
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Sep 11, 2019 11:45
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Platystemon posted:Göring‘s daughter was totally into it, too. I was looking into that last night out of curiosity and that was not there. Are there any deep cuts for Albert Speer Jr.? He seems like he has a pretty moderate, though anti-Nazi, view of it.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:05
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I'm surprised the man who sought everlasting vengeance for the Amritsar massacre decided to assassinate the former Lieutenant Governor of Punjab who implicitly approved of the massacre instead of the Colonel/acting Brigadier General who directly carried out the massacre.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:55
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Fangz posted:To be fair here, cold war nukes are kinda incomprehensible in terms of destructive power. The Hiroshima bomb is kinda the most relatable unit for most people. Yeah. There's a difference between 'the big scary thing' and 'the thing that did the historical event that you can look up pictures of'. It's like saying a space elevator is x times the height of the tallest possible skyscraper with current technology or y times the height of the empire state building.
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Sep 11, 2019 15:06
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Wait how many football fields is that?
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Sep 11, 2019 15:30
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golden bubble posted:I'm surprised the man who sought everlasting vengeance for the Amritsar massacre decided to assassinate the former Lieutenant Governor of Punjab who implicitly approved of the massacre instead of the Colonel/acting Brigadier General who directly carried out the massacre. Michael O'Dwyer was a slightly easier target than Colonel Dyer in 1940, as Dyer had had the unusual foresight to die thirteen years previously and have his ashes scattered in private
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Sep 11, 2019 15:32
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xthetenth posted:Yeah. There's a difference between 'the big scary thing' and 'the thing that did the historical event that you can look up pictures of'. "10 billion" is a meaningless number as far as human conception, it might as well be a gazillion bajillion, so to apply that to a known or unknown quantity is pointless. Also do all yall work for the CNN graphics department or something Edgar Allen Ho posted:Wait how many football fields is that? Sorry I use the metric scale unit "elephants stacked atop one another", that Imperial stuff is impenetrable
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Sep 11, 2019 15:58
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zoux posted:"10 billion" is a meaningless number as far as human conception, it might as well be a gazillion bajillion, so to apply that to a known or unknown quantity is pointless. Also do all yall work for the CNN graphics department or something It totally is! It's a thing that can't be meaningfully elaborated from things people know, but dammit they need a way to drive that or something like it home.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:02
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xthetenth posted:but dammit they need a way to drive that or something like it home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRbj1Q4tXNo&t=70s
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Sep 11, 2019 16:05
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edit: blah someone already said it
Fangz fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 16:17
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