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Azathoth posted:Your entire list is great, but I've always had a soft spot for the Hopkinsville Goblins. It's one of those weird cases where, regardless of whether one thinks anything weird actually happened, the folks involved believed they did. That's what always gets me about stuff like this. Sure, some people lie for a variety of reasons, but not everyone would lie. There's got to be something going on, I don't think everyone would just make stuff up. Also skeptics go "hmm yes probably just an owl, these simple country people were fooled" but if you live in the holler your whole life you know what a goddamned owl looks like and what it doesn't look like. That seems to be a major fallacy in theorizing about cases like this, which is when academics or whatever assume that the people are just as unfamiliar with wildlife as they are. My stepdad has been a hunter his whole life and spent lots of time outside at night in the wilderness and forest. He's going to know the difference between the noise an elk makes and a potential Bigfoot makes, and he's going to know what's unusual behavior for lights in the sky. To me, it's the same thinking when people go "durr ancient humans couldn't built the pyramids" to also go "stupid hillbillies don't know what an owl looks like."
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Sep 17, 2019 09:09
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Solice Kirsk posted:Every year for my birthday I look up the complete set of these on Ebay and debate buying them. I finally own my own place, so I think this may be the year I actually pull the trigger. Medieval Times is pretty good. Well, the one in Orlando is, anyway.
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Sep 17, 2019 09:38
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Ralph Crammed In posted:That's what always gets me about stuff like this. Sure, some people lie for a variety of reasons, but not everyone would lie. There's got to be something going on, I don't think everyone would just make stuff up. Also skeptics go "hmm yes probably just an owl, these simple country people were fooled" but if you live in the holler your whole life you know what a goddamned owl looks like and what it doesn't look like. That seems to be a major fallacy in theorizing about cases like this, which is when academics or whatever assume that the people are just as unfamiliar with wildlife as they are. If you get a partial glimpse of an object your brain will often automatically fill in all the missing details and totally bullshit you, but there's just now way of telling whether your brain invented some of the details you 'remember' unless you go back and examine the object more closely. The kicker is, if you can't examine the object again and you don't get additional information that proves that your first impression was wrong then it often won't even occur to you that you might have been mistaken. There's been cases where people swear they saw a lion wandering around town but when the cops cornered the animal it turned out to be a large dog or a horse with a blanket over it, people calling in a UFO report which turns out to be the moon, etc etc.. In each of those cases the witnesses were really, really, really familiar with what a dog or a horse or the moon looks like but their brain still tricked them to the point that they were adamant that they saw something weird. And like you said, they weren't lying. They had no reason to lie. But they were still wrong. It's also super easy for people to mistake the size of objects at a distance, so there's been a bunch of 'black panther' sightings which have turned out to be just a regular housecat. Once again, the people who called in these reports are super familiar with housecats and had no reason to lie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7jSZuRgVQ There's also been a whole bunch of psychological studies that show that eyewitness accounts are often wildly different from the actual events, all of which is why anecdotal evidence is never accepted as definitive proof for cryptozoological creatures. Of course there's also been a bunch of times where people have spotted a bizarre animal on the loose in their area and it turned out to be real: Prowling tiger shot in Atlanta Wallaby filmed in Dorset woman's garden Etc etc ..
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Sep 17, 2019 11:28
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Dead people giving you a car ride is pretty bizarre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYv2SE96yts
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Sep 17, 2019 11:39
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I'm not saying there is a parade of aliens wandering around America's heartland, but there was some freaky stuff report that was never really taken that seriously by anyone other than the fringe. I think popular culture has had a negative effect on the way Fortean occurrences are treated by researchers. It became crackpot nonsense - B movie rubber masks and comic book fodder. Anyone who attempts to seriously investigate unusual occurrences is laughed out of the room. J. Allen Hynek, author and researcher, was a very extremely serious academic who debunked UFO reports for the Air Force, said as much in his book the UFO Experience: A scientific inquiry. He did recognize that it was unusual phenomena though, and while he didn't think it was extraterrestrial he still thought it was a big enough of an abnormality to get scientifically serious about it. But what are UFOS? Who knows, cause you can't bring your UFO thesis to a "real" academic institution without getting laughed at.
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Sep 17, 2019 13:28
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do people still go on about the bermuda triangle now that you can track ships in real time over the internet
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Sep 17, 2019 13:59
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luxury handset posted:do people still go on about the bermuda triangle now that you can track ships in real time over the internet fact and data will never actually matter for people who care about bermuda triangle and related things.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:20
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Ralph Crammed In posted:I'm not saying there is a parade of aliens wandering around America's heartland, but there was some freaky stuff report that was never really taken that seriously by anyone other than the fringe. luxury handset posted:do people still go on about the bermuda triangle now that you can track ships in real time over the internet Obviously all of that data is false and part of the coverup.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:29
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Pvt.Scott posted:I’m cool with people investigating cryptids and supernatural stuff. I even have a crazy hypothesis about how if ghosts are real, the phenomena used to explain them away are actually how they manifest in our world. That camera goofed up, producing orbs, and that fan emitted ELF sound, causing you chills and fear, precisely because there WAS a supernatural entity present. I am fully aware that this is a retarded and bad idea. Sorry for bringing up ghosts, but it’s the best example I can think of right now(I assume ghostchat is at least discouraged in this thread). I don't think that that's that crazy. The more physicists dig into the concept of reality and stuff the crazier it gets. I'm not going to pretend I'm able to explain it, but stuff like string theory and parallel universes open the door to the way we can contextualize stuff like ghosts and cryptids. It doesn't even have to be a tear in the fabric of space - the way our own brains work isn't completely understood either. There's a lot of possible explanations out there, in a lot of different fields, but again, saying 'I'm going to research Bigfoot, for real' will get you laughed at.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:00
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Ralph Crammed In posted:I'm not saying there is a parade of aliens wandering around America's heartland, but there was some freaky stuff report that was never really taken that seriously by anyone other than the fringe. I'm a gigantic skeptic and James Randi is my hero but I fuckin' love cryptozoology (I've bought a ton of books and cryptozoology journals) and I even did my thesis on the disconnect between proper science and parapsychology way back when I did my degree. I grew up in the 70s and 80s when all we had were the Leonard Nimoy "In Search Of" TV show and the Fortean Times magazine so I got to see all the crazy conspiracy theories spread like wildfire when the internet became a thing, then the History Channel started pumping out all these bullshit shows about ancient aliens and ghost hunting and bigfoot hunting and the entire field became a laughing stock all around the world. Pvt.Scott posted:I’m cool with people investigating cryptids and supernatural stuff. There's a bunch of Actual Scientists who track down reports of lazarus taxa (species that were supposed to have disappeared but then suddenly turned up again) and there's lots of examples of creatures that have been shown to be extant after they've been listed as extinct for decades or even for more than a century. The coelacanth is the most obvious example but there's hundreds more, and there's some good books on the subject if anyone is interested such as Scott Weidensaul's 'The Ghost With Trembling Wings'. There's also roughly 20,000 new species described by science every year (most of them are bacteria and tiny arthropods but there's quite often something a bit more substantial) and there's probably millions more that are yet to be identified and described so there's always a slim chance that some cryptid somewhere in the world may turn out to actually exist. Bigfoot's chances of actually existing are pretty much nonexistent though, thousands of people have been hunting it for over 70 years now but they've never found any genuine incontrovertible evidence.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:04
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I think the Flatwoods Monster is cute tbh it looks like a friend. 
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Sep 17, 2019 15:05
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That's because bigfoots live in underground tunnel networks they've dug out over centuries. Everyone knows that.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:07
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Pvt.Scott posted:I’m cool with people investigating cryptids and supernatural stuff. I even have a crazy hypothesis about how if ghosts are real, the phenomena used to explain them away are actually how they manifest in our world. That camera goofed up, producing orbs, and that fan emitted ELF sound, causing you chills and fear, precisely because there WAS a supernatural entity present. I am fully aware that this is a retarded and bad idea. Sorry for bringing up ghosts, but it’s the best example I can think of right now(I assume ghostchat is at least discouraged in this thread). Orbs are just dust or pollen and the like 
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Sep 17, 2019 15:13
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Kitfox88 posted:I think the Flatwoods Monster is cute tbh it looks like a friend. I'm sure you'll be thrilled to learn that there's a whole bunch of 'sexy' Flatwoods Monster fan art online, as well as porn, as well as erotic Amazon kindle novels. The same is true for pretty much every other kind of cryptid.  Edit: there's also a ton of collectible toys 
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Sep 17, 2019 15:17
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:
gently caress those fucks. The Paracast, a podcast, mostly has UFO and alien stuff on but every now and then they'll talk to a ghost researcher and this guy had nothing but bad things to say about how the History Channel sources their 'experts'. Apparently the History Channel approached with a list of stuff they wanted him to say and he said no, he wasn't going to say that, and they declined to interview him after that. Paracast is good, or at least to used to be. I haven't listened to it in a while and apparently they've switched hosts. And thanks for the lazarus taxon list.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:28
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From a "cool for a fantasy setting, but I don't actually believe this" perspective, I like Aleister Crowley's take on ghosts. Crowley believed in reincarnation of a sort. His thing was that a soul's goal in life is to gain knowledge, and that knowledge is what passes on. Everything else, your likes and dislikes, opinions, personality, and so on, gets cast off in the spiritual realm leaving astral remains, just like dying leaves physical remains. He also believed in a catch-all sort of spirit he called elementals, as they are the basest, most broken down possible kind of spirit. These things run the normal bell curve of evil to good, but they all have a mischievous streak and love loving with us material folk. These elementals find those cast off astral remains and wear them, impersonating the dead person and creating a ghost. That's why ghosts in ghost stories tend to be, well, off. That's my favorite take from a storytelling perspective, because it can provide a lot of explanations of supernatural crap in one convenient package. What I'm really interested in, though, is the concept of High Strangeness, bolded here because there isn't BB code to make the letters appropriately squiggly. There has always been a divide between UFOlogy, ghost hunters, cryptid hunters, and other paranormal researchers. Recently, though, some UFOlogists (notably Richard Dolan, Linda Moulton Howe, and Robert Bigelow, the owner of the infamous Skinwalker Ranch) noticed that UFOs are often seen in conjunction with other paranormal activity in the area, from poltergeist activity to bigfoot and mothman sightings. High Strangeness is the idea that all of these phenomena are somehow connected. There aren't many ideas on how they are all connected, yet, since this concept has only been investigated seriously in the past few years, but, from a political perspective, this concept has the opportunity to bridge the gaps between the various types of paranormal researchers. If ghost and cryptid hunters start comparing notes with each other and UFOlogists, we could get some loving banger theories coming out of the paranormal research world. EDIT: Snowglobe of Doom posted:I'm a gigantic skeptic and James Randi is my hero but I fuckin' love cryptozoology (I've bought a ton of books and cryptozoology journals) and I even did my thesis on the disconnect between proper science and parapsychology way back when I did my degree. I grew up in the 70s and 80s when all we had were the Leonard Nimoy "In Search Of" TV show and the Fortean Times magazine so I got to see all the crazy conspiracy theories spread like wildfire when the internet became a thing, then the History Channel started pumping out all these bullshit shows about ancient aliens and ghost hunting and bigfoot hunting and the entire field became a laughing stock all around the world. A driving force behind a lot of the hardcore skeptics and debunkers is that they really want this stuff to be real. Back in the Bullshit! days, Penn Jillette did a bit where he ranted about how much he wished aliens and magic were genuinely real, but what pissed him off were the charlatans and hucksters trying to make a quick buck off of other peoples' belief. It's one of the few truly good takes he's ever had. OutOfPrint has a new favorite as of 15:34 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 15:29
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OutOfPrint posted:What I'm really interested in, though, is the concept of High Strangeness, bolded here because there isn't BB code to make the letters appropriately squiggly. There has always been a divide between UFOlogy, ghost hunters, cryptid hunters, and other paranormal researchers. Recently, though, some UFOlogists (notably Richard Dolan, Linda Moulton Howe, and Robert Bigelow, the owner of the infamous Skinwalker Ranch) noticed that UFOs are often seen in conjunction with other paranormal activity in the area, from poltergeist activity to bigfoot and mothman sightings. High Strangeness is the idea that all of these phenomena are somehow connected. The connection has been noted for decades - the Flatwoods Monster started out as a UFO sighting, to give one example. There's been a bunch of bigfoot sightings that have included weird poo poo (including the bigfoot occasionally disappearing into thin air) which was generally dismissed but has been picked up by sections of the community more and more over time, and with online self publishing becoming more and more of a thing we're now seeing books like this:  OutOfPrint posted:A driving force behind a lot of the hardcore skeptics and debunkers is that they really want this stuff to be real. Back in the Bullshit! days, Penn Jillette did a bit where he ranted about how much he wished aliens and magic were genuinely real, but what pissed him off were the charlatans and hucksters trying to make a quick buck off of other peoples' belief. It's one of the few truly good takes he's ever had.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:41
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If you happen to stop scrolling in the right place (and you're maybe a bit tired) this looks like a disgruntled Bigfoot wearing a towel, pissed off at having to interrupt his shower again to yell at some humans in the other dimension, which is also how I'll imagine Bigfoot from now on 
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Sep 17, 2019 15:59
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Not all fringe stuff is fake. Check out Perimeter System or more commonly known in the west as Dead Hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Hand Dead Hand also known as Perimeter, is a Cold War-era automatic nuclear weapons-control system used by the Soviet Union. General speculation from insiders alleges that the system remains in use in the post-Soviet Russian Federation as well. An example of fail-deadly and mutual assured destruction deterrence, it can automatically trigger the launch of the Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) by sending a pre-entered highest-authority order from the General Staff of the Armed Forces, Strategic Missile Force Management to command posts and individual silos if a nuclear strike is detected by seismic, light, radioactivity, and overpressure sensors even with the commanding elements fully destroyed.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:05
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Solice Kirsk posted:That's because bigfoots live in underground tunnel networks they've dug out over centuries. Everyone knows that. im pretty sure the aliens in majoras mask are based on the flatwoods monster
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Sep 17, 2019 17:32
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Croatoan posted:Not all fringe stuff is fake. Check out Perimeter System or more commonly known in the west as Dead Hand This might be the wrong thread for it, but if you’re into the Dead Hand, read scp-1984. Genuinely fantastic. (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-1984)
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Sep 17, 2019 17:57
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Kanine posted:im pretty sure the aliens in majoras mask are based on the flatwoods monster
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Sep 17, 2019 18:31
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Yeah, that was a pretty fun  experience, I had vague memories of being spooked by the Flatwoods Monsters pic from years before, and all of a sudden it shows up in an otherwise normal section of a zelda game.
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Sep 17, 2019 18:52
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Cryptids always fascinated me as a kid, I'd take out a lot of books on them from the library. After a while I'd already read all the stories and the books tended to repeat themselves because a lot of cryptid stuff was witnessed before people had better things to do than go around seeing things in the dark. I like the cryptids that turned out real: the platypus and okapi, for example, because no one believed these animals that looked like a mashup of three other animals were real. And of course the Giant Squid, which live specimens weren't even recorded on camera until the early 2000s.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:59
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OutOfPrint posted:A driving force behind a lot of the hardcore skeptics and debunkers is that they really want this stuff to be real. Back in the Bullshit! days, Penn Jillette did a bit where he ranted about how much he wished aliens and magic were genuinely real, but what pissed him off were the charlatans and hucksters trying to make a quick buck off of other peoples' belief. It's one of the few truly good takes he's ever had. This is genuinely a good thing. What gets my goat is the skeptics who use a plausible explanation for part of an event to dismiss the whole event, even when the explanation is patently ridiculous for the whole thing. To use the Hopkinsville Goblins, I'll buy that the initial part of the encounter could be explained away by Lucky seeing a fireball, thinking it was a UFO, then getting freaked the gently caress out by an owl when he went out for water. If that was all the encounter was, that's pretty reasonable, but it's not the whole thing. At a minimum, a dozen people lost their goddamn minds and imagined that multiple tiny people were trying to invade their home for hours, with a significant cooling off period between when they fled the first time and when they returned, only to lose their minds again and flee a second time. Like, I don't even necessarily believe it was aliens (or whatever you want to call them), but holy hell does it sound dumb when someone trots out owls without further explanation.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:26
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OutOfPrint posted:
That's why one of my favorite RPG books is GURPS Illuminati, which is basically "High Strangeness: The RPG"
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Sep 17, 2019 20:49
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Also they were shooting at the goblins, so you would have thought they would have shot one of the owls.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:55
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I'm pretty sure a lot of cryptids like the Hopskinsville Goblins can be explained by a combination of being drunk, and herd mentality. I know rural people and people from older times weren't idiots, but I also have intensely rural family not too far away from there and know moonshine can practically be a way of life out those ways.
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Sep 17, 2019 21:01
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Extremely low frequency sounds, infrasound, has been proven to gently caress people up and/or make them really nervous and also may be behind some ghost sightings. I find it just as plausible that the Hopkinsville goblins were a result of something like that as it was owls.
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Sep 17, 2019 21:09
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Ralph Crammed In posted:Extremely low frequency sounds, infrasound, has been proven to gently caress people up and/or make them really nervous and also may be behind some ghost sightings. I find it just as plausible that the Hopkinsville goblins were a result of something like that as it was owls. Music nerd Adam Neely made a great YouTube video about infrasound and harmonic resonance. After that, he tunes a keyboard to harmonic intervals of 18hz and plays some NES sounding chip tune music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMSXdCWbRHw
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Sep 17, 2019 21:23
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OutOfPrint posted:Music nerd Adam Neely made a great YouTube video about infrasound and harmonic resonance. After that, he tunes a keyboard to harmonic intervals of 18hz and plays some NES sounding chip tune music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMSXdCWbRHw This is really loving cool
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Sep 17, 2019 23:12
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I recently listened to a podcast about the Coral Castle, and that was kind of interesting in the "how the gently caress did one guy build this thing that can withstand category 5 hurricanes" kind of way. The Podcast was Astonishing Legends and they went into the history of the guy who built the castle and apparently they guy lead a crazy life before building the castle, but the main mystery is how the hell did he build it. Apparently some of the out there theories is that he used the earth's own magnetic fields to levitate the rocks into place. Take that theory for what you want.
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Sep 17, 2019 23:30
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wikipedia posted:He spent more than 28 years building Coral Castle, refusing to allow anyone to view him while he worked. A few teenagers claimed to have witnessed his work, reporting that he had caused the blocks of coral to move like hydrogen balloons.[5][better source needed] That looks like a pretty neat place, but lol at wikipedia throwing shade at In Search Of as a reputable source
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Sep 17, 2019 23:34
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AngryRobotsInc posted:I'm pretty sure a lot of cryptids like the Hopskinsville Goblins can be explained by a combination of being drunk, and herd mentality. I know rural people and people from older times weren't idiots, but I also have intensely rural family not too far away from there and know moonshine can practically be a way of life out those ways. This gets mentioned a lot, so it's worth stating that the deputies who questioned them at the station, where they fled to first, testified that they were highly agitated but showed no signs of being under the influence. Further, the deputies who went back to the house with them searched for signs of drinking and didn't find any there either. The story goes that Glennie Lankford, the family matriarch, didn't allow alcohol in the house. Not saying they were teetotalers, just that everyone being bombed out of their minds on moonshine isn't something that's likely to escape the notice of multiple cops and deputies. Note, that they were drunk is brought up by skeptics, but it is absolutely a later addition to the story, and appears to have accreted to the tale in the same way that details so often do in UFO cases. It started as speculation, despite no evidence, then got reported as fact because of the speculation.
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Sep 17, 2019 23:59
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Azathoth posted:This is genuinely a good thing. What gets my goat is the skeptics who use a plausible explanation for part of an event to dismiss the whole event, even when the explanation is patently ridiculous for the whole thing. Of course, that means I'm very much testing and ruling out environmental triggers if at all possible, and I think most paranormal experiences have a rational explanation, but the first step there is not calling people stupid for reporting something they've experienced. And I think it should be acceptable to go, 'okay, I can't explain every part of what was experienced'. Like you said, the Hopkinsville Goblins aren't just owls, even if owls might play a part in it!
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Sep 18, 2019 00:02
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Bigfoot's chances of actually existing are pretty much nonexistent though, thousands of people have been hunting it for over 70 years now but they've never found any genuine incontrovertible evidence. Another reason that Bigfoot (and other Bigfoot-esque cryptids) specifically gets laughed at is that theres a lot of connections and money between bigfoot hunters and creationist groups. Apparently these folks think finding Bigfoot will disprove evolution. Of course creationist types are their own kind of interesting (infuriating) fringe "science". My favorite thing is that in the past, creationist religious groups would pay for young men from their church to go to college and study geology, in the hopes that they would use their scientific knowledge to prove Flood Geology was real. Every single time the men would get the degree and come back and say: "nah, sorry, there was definitely never a global flood" I don't know if i like it better if those men got the stupid educated out of them, or if they were grifting the ignorant rubes for a free degree from the start.
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Sep 18, 2019 00:49
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Madkal posted:I recently listened to a podcast about the Coral Castle, and that was kind of interesting in the "how the gently caress did one guy build this thing that can withstand category 5 hurricanes" kind of way. The Podcast was Astonishing Legends and they went into the history of the guy who built the castle and apparently they guy lead a crazy life before building the castle, but the main mystery is how the hell did he build it. Apparently some of the out there theories is that he used the earth's own magnetic fields to levitate the rocks into place. Take that theory for what you want. Levers. This, and ancient aliens, and any other pseudoscience about large structures, is easily explained non-supernaturally by Archimedes over two thousand years ago. Lifting stuff ain't hard, just time-consuming.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:31
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+1 for the Art Bell era of Coast to Coast. I'm not from America and only started listening to them on youtube about five years ago. But my god nothing gets you feeling both cosy and creeped out like Art Bell's voice. he's broadcasting from the middle of nowhere-american midwest, talking to truckers driving through the night. Its v aesthetic. plenty of long episodes on youtube too. I recommend starting with the Philadelphia Experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVE94Zvy17c (or for a short dose check out the frantic area 51 caller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZDzWIG7x_4) And thank you for starting this thread. It's nice to get back to the dirty roots of the unnerving thread. Which was actually the thread that got me to originally register for SA back in 2008. Here's to 11 more years of unnerving?
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Sep 18, 2019 01:55
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OutOfPrint posted:
That's kinda how I feel. Ever since I was a kid, I'd read/watch anything on UFOs, ghosts, cryptids, folklore, you name it. It's annoying to come across something that's obviously been faked or is nothing and is getting played up as proof, like the insistence photographed orbs are anything other than dust/asbestos particles, or the Warrens bullshit.
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Sep 18, 2019 14:09
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Azathoth posted:To use the Hopkinsville Goblins, I'll buy that the initial part of the encounter could be explained away by Lucky seeing a fireball, thinking it was a UFO, then getting freaked the gently caress out by an owl when he went out for water. If that was all the encounter was, that's pretty reasonable, but it's not the whole thing. There's been other incidents where groups of people have reported protracted incidents involving weird creatures, like the 1924 Ape Canyon case where five miners were reportedly stuck defending themselves in a cabin while dozens of enraged ape creatures threw boulders at them all night. That story is super popular among cryptozoologists but it's a whole bunch of bullshit as far as I'm concerned because it looks like the only miner to later come forwards and share his version of events was a crazy dude who kept changing the details over the years (the story eventually got wilder and more dangerous, the bigfoots got taller and bulkier and the order of events got mixed around) and he claimed he'd been having psychic premonitions of the ape men for years before it happened. From what I can tell he was interviewed in 1966 by Robert Patterson (one of the guys who later shot the infamous bigfoot film in 1967) and I don't even know if Patterson verified that he was actually one of the original guys from the 1924 reports and not just some crazy random guy who latched onto this old urban legend as his 15 minutes of fame. Some of the original 1924 newspaper articles were some crazy yellow journalism bullshit as well. The thing about cases like Ape Canyon and the Hopkinsville Goblins is that there's zero evidence that the events happened as the witnesses described so there's no way of telling what actually happened, there's only guesswork and speculation.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:54
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