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Stickfigure posted:Are we sure that people idolize "bad" protagonists because they're protagonists and not because they do cool but immoral poo poo that a properly socialized person is unable to do? Like, did people idolize, say, Paul Blart the mall cop? Or like Observe and Report guy? I don't think we know, which is itself bad. If film makers were broadly inconsistent in their understanding of the kuleshov effect, that would massively hamper film.
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Oct 5, 2019 19:32
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FFT posted:Checked further, Robertson has the illustrator credit on the credits page, no mention of Braun. Yeah, that's the colorist This is the dumbest derail itt lmao
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Oct 5, 2019 19:34
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Tulip posted:Communication is a two way street. If you one person out of a hundred misinterprets your satire as sincere, that's probably on them. If 90%+ of the people misinterpret your satire as sincere, well. The problem with this line of thinking is that a lot of people are actually really bad at recognizing satire. https://www.niemanlab.org/2019/08/maybe-you-know-that-article-is-satire-but-a-lot-of-people-cant-tell-the-difference/ on the topic of movies everyone now a days will tell you that Starship Troopers is obviously a satire but when it was released it flew right the gently caress over a bunch of people’s heads including critics as well. Roger Ebert famously misses the point entirely even though he recognized the satire inherent in Robocop. Satire is extremely tricky because even if you think you’re being blatantly obvious about it there’s a solid chance it’s going to missed by a large number of people. Ghosthotel has issued a correction as of 19:40 on Oct 5, 2019 |
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Oct 5, 2019 19:38
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Roger Ebert was an idiot. This is going to be emptyquoted and I don’t care.
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Oct 5, 2019 19:46
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goons never gonna let go of that time he said video games werent art (he was wrong there too)
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Oct 5, 2019 19:48
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The CEO of my company once proudly declared that he went into finance because of Wall Street and that the movie changed his life. He also apparently used to hang around protection rackets before that so I guess that's a mild improvement?
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Oct 5, 2019 20:01
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Honestly the problem is less the sheer badness of his opinions and more the weight society gave to them. He was treated like the Noam Chomsky of film.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:01
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With a few exceptions, Roger Ebert was a very good film critic. Like most people who are good at things though, he sucked at other things. One of those things was being a video game critic.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:03
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His review and love for Cosmology of Kyoto is pretty cool though.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:13
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https://twitter.com/Whatapityonyou/status/1180488513919303685?s=20
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Oct 5, 2019 20:17
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Ebert, 1982 posted:"The Thing" is a great barf-bag movie, all right, but is it any good? I found it disappointing, for two reasons: the superficial characterizations and the implausible behavior of the scientists on that icy outpost. Characters have never been Carpenter's strong point; he says he likes his movies to create emotions in his audiences, and I guess he'd rather see us jump six inches than get involved in the personalities of his characters. This time, though, despite some roughed-out typecasting and a few reliable stereotypes (the drunk, the psycho, the hero), he has populated his ice station with people whose primary purpose in life is to get jumped on from behind. The few scenes that develop characterizations are overwhelmed by the scenes in which the men are just setups for an attack by the Thing.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:33
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Didn't the thing not do amazing in theaters and it's become a classic in the intervening years or am I remembering wrong
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Oct 5, 2019 20:41
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christmas boots posted:With a few exceptions, Roger Ebert was a very good film critic. Like most people who are good at things though, he sucked at other things. One of those things was being a video game critic. he loved himself some titties tho
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Oct 5, 2019 20:43
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Didn't the thing not do amazing in theaters and it's become a classic in the intervening years or am I remembering wrong nah that is basically correct. shows how subject and useless art is as a descriptor is tho.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:45
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Didn't the thing not do amazing in theaters and it's become a classic in the intervening years or am I remembering wrong Yeah. Ebert was far from the only person who failed to recognise its greatness. It’s still an  moment to read his review today.
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Oct 5, 2019 20:45
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Platystemon posted:Yeah. Yeah I just wanted to make sure I was remembering correctly, he wasnt like this weirdo going AH gently caress THIS TRASH about something everyone loved Tbh he probably hated it because there were no titties
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Oct 5, 2019 20:48
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:he loved himself some titties tho who among us
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Oct 5, 2019 21:39
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Yeah I just wanted to make sure I was remembering correctly, he wasnt like this weirdo going AH gently caress THIS TRASH about something everyone loved Unironically probably correct, and given what horror audiences at the time were used to and expected, this probably explains the audience reaction too.
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Oct 5, 2019 21:39
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Eberts review of whatever that was like yeah movie was whatever, killer tits tho, is probably the Pinnacle of the written word
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Oct 5, 2019 21:44
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One More Fat Nerd posted:Unironically probably correct, and given what horror audiences at the time were used to and expected, this probably explains the audience reaction too. Ebert had some hangups about scary or gory movies sometimes. Sometimes he was able to recognize their quality despite his squeamishness, other times no.
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Oct 5, 2019 21:44
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Also, the reason that using violence to code people as "bad" so often fails to get the point across in movies is because violence isn't actually bad in that way. This is why so many anti-war movies fail to be anti-war, because they attempt to use violence to shock and disgust the viewer, and thus hope to create an aversion to war, but humanity will never have an aversion to violence.
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Oct 5, 2019 21:48
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https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1180496231241416706?s=20 https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/status/1180500634010710017?s=20
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Oct 5, 2019 21:50
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Ebert once wrote up, early in his career, attending a Saturday matinee showing of Night of The Living Dead where most of the audience was kids deposited in the theater so their parents could get a couple of hours free to do some shopping, and brother, him describing the sheer chaos as he waited for the movie to start, and then the stone cold shock of a bunch of like six to ten year olds as the movie really settles into the unsettling, more than makes up for any misfires he had critically as his career went on. Also, his review of North.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:00
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I was lucky enough to see night of the living dead without it being spoiled ahead of time, it's one of those movies people just don't like to spoil generally, and sitting in my dark livingroom at like 4am in the morning i was also just loving hammer struck.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:15
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Yeah Ebert was a great movie critic because he understands all of the artistic parts of movies, but the guy just loves movies (and titties) so he's willing to give them a break as long as they were still entertaining, which alot of movie critics don't bother with. He was my go-to guy before he died.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:37
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His take on Lynch's movies were always interesting because i have the feeling that if isabella rosselini or patricia arquette were properly stacked he wouldve added a couple stars on that alone
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Oct 5, 2019 23:00
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Ebert wasn't just about the size, see e.g. the Rapa Nui review for evidence.
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Oct 5, 2019 23:05
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Tony murders his best friend just for dating his sister. yes he does and it's not portrayed as a good thing, since he does it in the latter part of the movie when he's falling apart mentally I mean he's a criminal, he's not out there building kindergartens and soup kitchens but within the confines of the criminal life he's shown to be an honorable hoodlum of course that's crap, I know it and you know it but I'm talking about the onscreen persona
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Oct 5, 2019 23:34
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https://twitter.com/LukeEclair/status/1180606108202864640?s=20
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Oct 6, 2019 00:06
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christmas boots posted:This isn't even made up. He actually has a license to gently caress. Should have given one to Anakin. He was one of a dying species too. The Jedi 
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Oct 6, 2019 00:21
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even as a not-too-bright teenager i understood starship troopers was satire. the "everyone's doing their part!" scene with kids crushing bugs with their feet and their mothers excitedly jumping and clapping was extremely on the nose. i *did* have to explain it to a few people though. hmm i also argued with my english teacher that saving private ryan being violent and gross was a good thing because movies should show what war really is, something gross and violent filled with pointless deaths that can and should be avoided at all costs. idk what more the directors could have done without breaking the fourth wall and having an actor look at the camera and say "war is bad you morons"
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Oct 6, 2019 02:12
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Ghosthotel posted:The problem with this line of thinking is that a lot of people are actually really bad at recognizing satire. My colleges humanities departments have a rotating speaker series where every month a different professor gives a talk at a local bar on whatever they want, and everyone gets free food. One of the professors gave his entire talk about how Starship Troopers obviously isn't satirical, because it doesn't wink at the camera, and that's what satire is.
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Oct 6, 2019 02:58
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Tunicate posted:My colleges humanities departments have a rotating speaker series where every month a different professor gives a talk at a local bar on whatever they want, and everyone gets free food. like... as a satirical take on that sort of take? probably not I guess
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Oct 6, 2019 03:18
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Suspicious posted:even as a not-too-bright teenager i understood starship troopers was satire. the "everyone's doing their part!" scene with kids crushing bugs with their feet and their mothers excitedly jumping and clapping was extremely on the nose. i *did* have to explain it to a few people though. hmm I've had some fashy teens tell me they hated Starship Troopers because it made the soldiers seem like clowns, which is interesting. TBH I don't really have an answer as I'm not, you know, a professional film maker. Rick & Morty gets incredibly close to looking you in the eye and saying "Rick is a defective wastrel who chooses to hurt the people around him out of selfishness" and it's basically just meme'd. The most interesting comparison I've seen is that American History X is popular among Nazis, but The Producers isn't.
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Oct 6, 2019 03:24
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war and violence are symptoms, not causes, any attempt to engage with them without this understanding is flawed at best and propaganda at worse
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Oct 6, 2019 03:24
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LGD posted:like... as a satirical take on that sort of take? nah I asked afterwards, and wanted to make sure he was talking entirely about the movie, and he was.
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Oct 6, 2019 04:01
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I liked the Ebert review of the Mummy where he says "it's trash, and I love it".
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Oct 6, 2019 10:14
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Ebert thought alien, blade runner, the thing, the terminator, and countless other classics were stupid and bad (with his own hot takes) when they came out, and only reversed his views once he realized refusing to do so would damage his credibility (and rightfully so) among subsequent generations later on He’s never been that smart
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Oct 6, 2019 17:11
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that’s sad it’s okay to dislike a movie others like stick with your opinions, you aren’t gonna get fired
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Oct 6, 2019 17:39
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whole lot of ted ralls up in here
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Oct 6, 2019 17:56
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