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TheHan posted:I like the idea of the entire point being that oppressive power structures are the problem, and it does play into the attack titan always being used to destroy those oppressive systems (I like Gantolandons reading of AOT saying race is a social construct used to separate and oppress lower classes even more, but in a series thats so heavily focused on genes and heritage like with the Ackermans theyd have to just come right out and say it for me to fully buy into it). The point is that its such a strong message already that drawing holocaust parallels where you didnt need to was the dumbest thing, cause now all everyone thinks about is what does this have to do with the holocaust and what does Isayama think about the Jewish? In the last few chapters he could really take it home and make the moral explicit and that symbolism is still there loving everything up. Dias posted:I understand the thread is a bit...sore about the neverending "is AoT fascist/nazist" discourse, but I don't think it's a condemnation of the series to acknowledge, now that we're in the endgame, that its use of imagery is all over the place and not super well thought out - unless some last-minute reveal ties it all up or fucks it all up, of course. Japan doesn't have the cultural taboo against using Nazi-related imagery (or at least, it isn't so strong as in Europe and in the US). Attack on Titan is a product made by a Japanese author for the Japanese market primarily, which the Western audience picked up in the middle of the series. I don't think an author from a foreign country has the obligation to only use symbolism that won''t offend the American or European reader.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 21:35 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:51 |
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Dias posted:thiiiiiiiis might be a bit too much, dude No, I believe that it uses the imagery to accomplish exactly what it sought to, which is to show the worst excesses of otherization that people actually do to each other, and does so while also treading a line from the most supernatural to the least supernatural. So we start with living under the threat of literal man-eating monsters. Then we have the nobility, using "god-given" mind control powers to contain and tyrannize an ignorant population. We move onto Marley, who have "historical" and "scientific" reasons to push an ethnicity into ghettos. Child soldiers committing atrocities against their same people first because they don't know better, then because they are trapped by their circumstances. And finally here we get to the root of everything, and what do we see? Slaves getting their tongues removed because there's no need for them to speak.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 21:42 |
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The whole story every Eldian whether scouting legion, marley, tybers or shifters have all sacrificed themselves for the world. Whatever their reason they've all put their lives second to their duty just as Ymir. Eren (and Historia that one time) are the first to say 'gently caress the world, lets fight for our own destiny' and freeing Ymir this way is a great end to a strong story. Now we just sit back and enjoy the rumbling. Eren has to be the dad to Historia's kid right? Just doesn't make sense to be anyone else. No idea how Armin and Mikasa will tie in to the ending though.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 21:53 |
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It's somewhat kind of like in Wolfenstein where there was a Jewish secret society that made technology waaaaay ahead of its time but their motivation was to become closer to God through discovery and creation rather than making weapons. Does it justify anything the Nazis did? No. gently caress no.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 21:54 |
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I do like the take that Isayama Hajime didn't mean to imply anything about anything but he just happened to fall rear end backwards into unintentionally implying that "the Nazis were wrong." Quite serendipitous, that. (I less enjoy the take that the Nazi's would have been perfectly justified if only the Jews would have been more powerful.)
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 21:57 |
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Gantolandon posted:Japan doesn't have the cultural taboo against using Nazi-related imagery (or at least, it isn't so strong as in Europe and in the US). Attack on Titan is a product made by a Japanese author for the Japanese market primarily, which the Western audience picked up in the middle of the series. I don't think an author from a foreign country has the obligation to only use symbolism that won''t offend the American or European reader. Not only is that a really bad excuse to dismiss careless imagery but Isayama is clearly aware of the larger implications of the specific things he used. He’s not putting his bad guys in SS uniforms just to sell how bad they are. Conspiratiorist posted:No, I believe that it uses the imagery to accomplish exactly what it sought to, which is to show the worst excesses of otherization that people actually do to each other, and does so while also treading a line from the most supernatural to the least supernatural. So you think he had to connect Eldians to Jewish people during the holocaust or this all would’ve been lost on us? Like, it was either the holocaust or slavery in the US less this whole story completely fall apart. A soldier fed a child to dogs but now that I’m wondering if the Eldians are supposed to be Jewish is when I really think about the depths man will sink to. TheHan fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 6, 2019 |
# ? Oct 6, 2019 22:12 |
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TheHan posted:So you think he had to connect Eldians to Jewish people during the holocaust or this all would’ve been lost on us? Like, it was either the holocaust or slavery in the US less this whole story completely fall apart. Feel free to list examples of systemic real-world otherization that don't actually draw parallels to real-world events.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 22:16 |
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TheHan posted:Not only is that a really bad excuse to dismiss careless imagery but Isayama is clearly aware of the larger implications of the specific things he used. He’s not putting his bad guys in SS uniforms just to sell how bad they are. It doesn't mean he's unaware, it means that most of his intended audience won't bat an eye. TheHan posted:So you think he had to connect Eldians to Jewish people during the holocaust or this all wouldve been lost on us? Like, it was either the holocaust or slavery in the US less this whole story completely fall apart. A soldier fed a child to dogs but now that Im wondering if the Eldians are supposed to be Jewish is when I really think about the depths man will sink to. Dude, you were shown that Attack on Titan cannot possibly be used to whitewash the Holocaust (which was your original complaint). You moved your goalpost to "Well, it's Isayama's fault that I cannot stop thinking about the Jews whenever I read AoT". This is not a viewpoint that makes you look reasonable.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 22:30 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:Feel free to list examples of systemic real-world otherization that don't actually draw parallels to real-world events. Do you mean in fiction? Cause like, a lot. Steven Universe is also about a kid fighting against and eventually changing an oppressive system that looks down on anyone different or considered lesser. There’s a whole subclass of people who’re literally just made to serve and mixing of the classes is grounds for execution. Steven Universe is for children, but it managed to get its themes across without throwing in holocaust imagery. Gantolandon posted:It doesn't mean he's unaware, it means that most of his intended audience won't bat an eye. Whoa buddy, never said AOT is being used to whitewash the holocaust, not even sure where you got that. My original complaint was that it was dumb to put it in at all cause with every new development the conversation inevitably turns to “What is he trying to say about the Jewish?” Conspiratiorist argued that he had to put in the holocaust imagery to get his point across, which I’m currently arguing is uh, stupid. Arguing that he is aware and it’s ok cause his direct audience don’t care is also, uh, stupid.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 22:52 |
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TheHan posted:Do you mean in fiction? Cause like, a lot. Steven Universe is also about a kid fighting against and eventually changing an oppressive system that looks down on anyone different or considered lesser. There’s a whole subclass of people who’re literally just made to serve and mixing of the classes is grounds for execution. Steven Universe is for children, but it managed to get its themes across without throwing in holocaust imagery. He could use other imagery, but he had no obligation to do that. You seem to take for granted that using Holocaust imagery in a story with an anti-fascist message is a bad thing and the author should be ashamed of himself, which is a pretty bizarre idea.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 22:58 |
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Gantolandon posted:He could use other imagery, but he had no obligation to do that. You seem to take for granted that using Holocaust imagery in a story with an anti-fascist message is a bad thing and the author should be ashamed of himself, which is a pretty bizarre idea. He can use whatever imagery he wants, it doesn’t protect him from criticism if it’s done poorly. You keep posting assuming my issue is with the imagery at all, and not how it was used in this specific context.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:04 |
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So, I think this is where poo poo's getting mixed up. Isayama intentionally used WW2 ghetto imagery for a very specific purpose: displaying the Marley Eldians as an otherized, segregated ethnicity. I think we can all agree with that, no one is saying otherwise. Now, the issue with using real-life imagery is that quite often it's used when you're making allegories in storytelling, and we kinda default to reading them as such. Thing is, I don't think the Marley Eldians work as an allegory for Jews because...they weren't supposed to be an allegory at all. Isayama wanted to evoke otherization and used the most famous symbol of otherization in modern history, but the text doesn't support "Eldians are Jews" both from an anti-Semitic or a sympathetic point of view. However, from a semiotic perspective, there are still connotations you can't run from when you use those symbols and attach them to a different people, one that's portrayed as having a past as oppressors and rulers instead of exiles and runaways. Does that mean Isayama intended that reading? Again, I don't believe it's an allegory, so no, but it's still there. Even if you say it's a difference in culture, those symbols pertain to a Western reality - it's not a manji being used in a Buddhist context, for instance. I'd say the historical/religious imagery in AoT is not well-crafted overall, it's even used pretty haphazardly. That, I feel, is a valid criticism because it leads to weird connotations. I think it's interesting to discuss this because it goes beyond "is Isayama/AoT fascist" but I'm fine dropping it after this post.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:06 |
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The imagery makes people very uncomfortable and I think that a manga that deals with issues like predjudice and abusive power structures should make you feel very uncomfortable. Concretely linking the events in the story to real life events is very important in my opinion. I don't think the story should be whitewashed to avoid bad faith arguments that ignore the content of the story and instead focus solely on the uncomfortable imagery.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:06 |
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TheHan posted:Do you mean in fiction? Real world. Isayama chose to use historical events as the basis for the imagery of his work. Was it impossible to tell the tale without it? No, but that's what he chose to use. But since we're moving. TheHan posted:He can use whatever imagery he wants, it doesnt protect him from criticism if its done poorly. You keep posting assuming my issue is with the imagery at all, and not how it was used in this specific context. TheHan posted:Depiction isn’t the problem, it’s why draw parallels to the Jewish at all? This is a fictional story about fictional people in a fictional world but for some reason he threw in this specific real world thing.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:15 |
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TheHan posted:He can use whatever imagery he wants, it doesn’t protect him from criticism if it’s done poorly. You keep posting assuming my issue is with the imagery at all, and not how it was used in this specific context. You have to prove it's done poorly. Using Holocaust-based imagery fits the story, which first takes every fascist trope existing and deconstructs it, then shows how ethnic-based identity is used by the ruling class to keep their subjects docile and divided.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:28 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:Real world. Dias posted:So, I think this is where poo poo's getting mixed up. Isayama intentionally used WW2 ghetto imagery for a very specific purpose: displaying the Marley Eldians as an otherized, segregated ethnicity. I think we can all agree with that, no one is saying otherwise. Now, the issue with using real-life imagery is that quite often it's used when you're making allegories in storytelling, and we kinda default to reading them as such. Thing is, I don't think the Marley Eldians work as an allegory for Jews because...they weren't supposed to be an allegory at all. Isayama wanted to evoke otherization and used the most famous symbol of otherization in modern history, but the text doesn't support "Eldians are Jews" both from an anti-Semitic or a sympathetic point of view. This pretty much perfectly summarizes it. I’m not coming for Isayama’s character here, just how when you throw in symbolism without considering the wider implications you run into things like, all of this. A way more innocuous example of this is the creator of the headbanging pigeon pissing off parts of Thailand. In that case, she just wanted to do a nice thing and made a mistake, genuinely unaware of the implications and what those symbols mean. Then you have David Cage and Detroit: Become Human, which just, sucks. Gantolandon posted:You have to prove it's done poorly. Using Holocaust-based imagery fits the story, which first takes every fascist trope existing and deconstructs it, then shows how ethnic-based identity is used by the ruling class to keep their subjects docile and divided. I think if it was done well, it wouldn’t leave room for debate at all. If people are arguing whether you intended to demonize the Jewish race, that’s like my bar for “Did not convey your ideas clearly”
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:40 |
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TheHan posted:I think if it was done well, it wouldnt leave room for debate at all. If people are arguing whether you intended to demonize the Jewish race, thats like my bar for Did not convey your ideas clearly That's a pretty low bar when we've got poo poo like Starship Troopers being considered fascist apologia by movie critics.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:48 |
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TheHan posted:I think if it was done well, it wouldn’t leave room for debate at all. If people are arguing whether you intended to demonize the Jewish race, that’s like my bar for “Did not convey your ideas clearly” That's not really genuinely fair at all. If your argument is "people can take negative things away" then almost nothing can follow your rules. You unironically have people who will argue that ANY sufficiently evil group was in the right. There are people who claim that Voldemort from Harry Potter was objectively in the right despite being a literal snake-faced evilman.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:55 |
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Titans really ARE zombies, titanization is an infection from the tree alien worm thing that spreads through blood. Eldians aren't the only possible titans, anyone who ate the flesh of a titan would become one, the ghettos, revisionist history and propaganda are just a way to control a minority.
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# ? Oct 6, 2019 23:56 |
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TheHan posted:This pretty much perfectly summarizes it. I’m not coming for Isayama’s character here, just how when you throw in symbolism without considering the wider implications you run into things like, all of this. Just like the existence of bronies and sexualised MLP fanart is a proof that the authors of the cartoon didn't consider the wider implications, they shouldn't have made ponies that could be considered sexy!
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:05 |
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Gantolandon posted:Just like the existence of bronies and sexualised MLP fanart is a proof that the authors of the cartoon didn't consider the wider implications, they shouldn't have made ponies that could be considered sexy! RainbowDashinholocaustphoto.txt
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:08 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:That's a pretty low bar when we've got poo poo like Starship Troopers being considered fascist apologia by movie critics. It's an impossible metric. Every story has an oppositional reading.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:08 |
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ImpAtom posted:That's not really genuinely fair at all. If your argument is "people can take negative things away" then almost nothing can follow your rules. You unironically have people who will argue that ANY sufficiently evil group was in the right. There are people who claim that Voldemort from Harry Potter was objectively in the right despite being a literal snake-faced evilman. Yeah you can take it to an extreme, but that’s true of anything. I’ve never read Harry Potter but from what I’ve heard, Voldemort is just wizard hitler and wants to do genocides. I’m assuming there’s nothing in the text that implies he’s in the right for wanting to just do evil things, and only the most liberal interpretations of it could come to that conclusion. That’s akin to those edgelords who college who would try and argue that Hitler was good for Germany, actually. Gantolandon posted:Just like the existence of bronies and sexualised MLP fanart is a proof that the authors of the cartoon didn't consider the wider implications, they shouldn't have made ponies that could be considered sexy! See, like this. There’s nothing to support arguments cause the stories make their points clear (or in the case of MLP uhhh, doesn’t bring up loving the ponies at all). Attack on Titan explicitly leaves specific things vague, which in this specific instance is something you super don’t want to leave open to interpretation.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:25 |
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TheHan posted:Yeah you can take it to an extreme, but that’s true of anything. I’ve never read Harry Potter but from what I’ve heard, Voldemort is just wizard hitler and wants to do genocides. I’m assuming there’s nothing in the text that implies he’s in the right for wanting to just do evil things, and only the most liberal interpretations of it could come to that conclusion. That’s akin to those edgelords who college who would try and argue that Hitler was good for Germany, actually Then you can point to anything else. The Empire from Star Wars, Starship Troopers, Zeon, X-Men, it doesn't really matter which. There will be a not-insignificant group of people who take that message away from something that has ambiguity in *any* form.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:40 |
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TheHan posted:Yeah you can take it to an extreme, but that’s true of anything. I’ve never read Harry Potter but from what I’ve heard, Voldemort is just wizard hitler and wants to do genocides. I’m assuming there’s nothing in the text that implies he’s in the right for wanting to just do evil things, and only the most liberal interpretations of it could come to that conclusion. That’s akin to those edgelords who college who would try and argue that Hitler was good for Germany, actually. The manga straight out tells you that oppressing the Subjects of Ymir is wrong and shows that the narrative legitimizing their oppression is fake. There is not even a hint of "but m-m-maybe they deserve to be genocided or at least used as slave soldiers" in the entire manga. You're the person who decided that it can be read as an anti-Jewish pamphlet and you presented zero arguments beyond "some people think so, which means the author wasn't careful enough".
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:42 |
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I'm choosing to take this stance despite all evidence to the contrary so that proves that it's ambiguous and up for debate
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 00:46 |
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ImpAtom posted:Then you can point to anything else. The Empire from Star Wars, Starship Troopers, Zeon, X-Men, it doesn't really matter which. There will be a not-insignificant group of people who take that message away from something that has ambiguity in *any* form. You can compare it to all sorts of media, but literally in this specific story there’s a whole arc that shoves in a ton of holocaust parallels and then at the end the characters asked “what’s the real reason this all happened?” giving two conflicting stories, one of which put the blame on the oppressed. Of course people are gonna start giving you the sideye, it’s not exactly Rugrats creepypasta to see some hosed up things with what you’re given. Also of those examples you gave, the original Star Wars trilogy made their bad guys planet busting Space Nazis and never once tried to go "Maybe they've got a point". In the second trilogy they tried to test the both sides water and famously hosed it up. X-men pulled a ton from the civil rights movement and coded the mutants as a minority race who are righteous in their mission. Bobby in X-1 "coming out" to his parents is a great scene, but once they did that introducing a mutant cure in X-3 was met with criticism cause why would you do both, your story isn't able to handle this.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 01:37 |
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TheHan posted:X-men pulled a ton from the civil rights movement and coded the mutants as a minority race who are righteous in their mission. And then you have Magneto, a holocaust survivor, who becomes the embodiment of humanity's fear of mutants who wants to lead an army of mutants to destroy humanity... idk how you could possibly be glossing over that part especially since Magneto's perspective and goals are always portrayed as extremely sympathetic but outright wrong.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:18 |
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Super Rad posted:And then you have Magneto, a holocaust survivor, who becomes the embodiment of humanity's fear of mutants who wants to lead an army of mutants to destroy humanity... idk how you could possibly be glossing over that part especially since Magneto's perspective and goals are always portrayed as extremely sympathetic but outright wrong. Cause in that instance we were talking about reading into media. Since my point was that Isayama left his portrayal open ended, Magneto is a great example of a story that does make it a point to say “we’re not agreeing with this”
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:25 |
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How is it really opened ended with how the story is heading is beyond me Theres a lot of people here that dwell on imaginary subtext instead of reading the god drat text
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:43 |
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TheHan posted:Do you mean in fiction? Cause like, a lot. Steven Universe is also about a kid fighting against and eventually changing an oppressive system that looks down on anyone different or considered lesser. There’s a whole subclass of people who’re literally just made to serve and mixing of the classes is grounds for execution. Steven Universe is for children, but it managed to get its themes across without throwing in holocaust imagery. You mean the show that had three rulings beings who committed genocide on a universal scale, who are then forgiven and sing happy songs in the aftermath with the main protag just because they cried over it a little bit? That Steven Universe? The one where that kind of suffering and violence is just washed over in a thirty minute episode? To be honest it really seems like you're arguing in bad faith. The idea behind those ghetto's is not to talk about the Jews/Holocaust, it is to talk about dehumanisation and how the cycle of upper classes keeps perpetuating it to various degree throughout history. It's very clear that's the storybeat Isayama is going for and how we are stuck in a perpetual cycle that we must break in order to truly be free from the suffering and violence we inflict on each other. He even has bloody Kruger state that outright to the audience. What Eren represents is an end to it. That's what the whole last chapter was about, to show that no matter the age, no matter the power, this system ( except the ones who perpetuate it) caused everyone under it to suffer. The only way to break free is to treat everyone as if they're worth something, as a human being worthy of love and that's how the system will collapse. You'd have to outright ignore scenes where the manga is telling you the opposite to reach the conclusion you have. Which is always the frustrating part of these arguments, because it's clear the person arguing about the ghetto imagery has either not read the story properly, got their info off some stupid twitter thread or outright ignores scenes which directly state what the author is actually doing. Asuron fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Oct 7, 2019 |
# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:49 |
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Asuron posted:You mean the show that had three rulings beings who committed genocide on a global scale, who are then forgiven and sing happy songs in the aftermath with the main protag just because they cried over it a little bit? That Steven Universe? The one where that kind of suffering and violence is just washed over in a thirty minute episode? I think you're misreading the argument. TheHan isn't saying the series is profascist or anything, they're just questioning whether the Holocaust imagery was necessary for the series' discussion of dehumanisation and the cycle of oppression. I think this is actually a very interesting discussion, and one that's worth having!
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:56 |
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TheHan posted:You can compare it to all sorts of media, but literally in this specific story there’s a whole arc that shoves in a ton of holocaust parallels and then at the end the characters asked “what’s the real reason this all happened?” giving two conflicting stories, one of which put the blame on the oppressed. And at the end of that arc Kruger answers this question by saying both versions are propaganda, and that wherever the truth of the past lies it doesn't change the fact that the oppression the Eldians are suffering through is wrong and the fault for perpetuating it lies in the world's existing power structures (the Marleyan government and the King of the Walls)
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 02:58 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:And at the end of that arc Kruger answers this question by saying both versions are propaganda, and that wherever the truth of the past lies it doesn't change the fact that the oppression the Eldians are suffering through is wrong and the fault for perpetuating it lies in the world's existing power structures (the Marleyan government and the King of the Walls) That's the part I'm referring to when I say the story just leaves it open ended, Kruger just says that the truth isn't real and moves on. Fine, history is written by the winners and all that. So why specifically use imagery from the one instance in history where one side was 100% in the wrong and lying about everything? There was no "cycle" where years before the jewish people (Who also aren't some entirely separate nation, they were also German) committed horrible acts against the rest of Germany, the imagery just doesn't mesh. Like Asuron said: Asuron posted:To be honest it really seems like you're arguing in bad faith. The idea behind those ghetto's is not to talk about the Jews/Holocaust, it is to talk about dehumanisation. It isn't about the holocaust, why specifically evoke that image? It just doesn't fit, really.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 03:49 |
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TheHan posted:So why specifically use imagery from the one instance in history where one side was 100% in the wrong and lying about everything? . ... Are you being serious right now? Like seriously? That isn't even the only time in the past hundred years, let alone the only time in history. Edit: Like seriously, you've had a weird undercurrent to what you've been saying and this seems to bring it into light. You seem to be arguing "genocide can be justified" and your complaint is that AoT is bad because it uses the 'one instance in history where one side was 100% wrong and lying about everything' which seems to imply you think all the other times the 'one side' actually had a point for the awful insane atrocities they committed? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Oct 7, 2019 |
# ? Oct 7, 2019 03:53 |
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ImpAtom posted:... Are you being serious right now? Like seriously? That isn't even the only time in the past hundred years, let alone the only time in history. Hey, the point's this: Attack on Titan's doing a morally grey story where everyone's lovely to each other and there's layers to both sides that have caused them to justify doing terrible things. Eldia attacks world, Marley attack Eldia, Marley attacks world. The holocaust was an objective atrocity and if someone's implying that there was any grey in it or that it was retribution for an earlier incident then hell yeah people are gonna start seeing red flags. The whole point is that it doesn't fit into a morally grey story so using that specific imagery was a huge misstep. And, I just put 'the' instead of 'this' by mistake.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 04:17 |
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The Holocaust is also a bad comparison because the Jews and other undesirables were being systematically murdered with the goal of eliminating them entirely. The situation with Eldians in Marley is closer to a colonization efforts (such as Japanese rule over Korea) where the residents are being used for slave labor, cannon fodder, and titan fodder. The Eldians are not being systematically eliminated, at least for now. It's still an incredibly lovely situation, but it's not even in the same ballpark as the friggin' Holocaust or the second Sino-Japanese war. It's not a comparison the author should have made lightly and comes off as being done for shock value.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 04:31 |
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Did you like, ever take a world history class? And the point is that it doesn't matter. Whatever biological or historical grievances the Marleyans might have towards the Eldians, real or imagined, do not justify oppression. The reason it's left "open ended" is because the message is that the question itself is wrong, because oppression is always unjustifiable. If you look far and deep into the history of any people or nation you'll find they did bad poo poo, but guess what? It doesn't justify persecution. Furthermore, portraying the Eldians as "historically innocent" would only undermine this message, because the point is that they're no different from any other people. "B-but the Jews-" Ever read the Old Testament? The Hebrews were loving savages. And they murdered our Lord Jesus Christ! But it doesn't matter. And did you ever notice how the Marleyans and Eldians are culturally indistinguishable? Because Eldia was a 2000 year old continent-spanning Empire. Both Marleyans and Eldians were part of the same nation - the racial divide was an artificial construct. There's the parallels (which I'm inclined to believe are more incidental than intentional) for the perceived incongruencies you've so far named. TheHan posted:Hey, the point's this: You just don't get it. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 7, 2019 |
# ? Oct 7, 2019 04:34 |
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TheHan posted:Hey, the point's this: And this is where the issue lies. You seem to think that these things are different if there's 'justification' in it, ignoring that historically there is always justification for it to the people who do it. Many times those justifications are nonsense bullshit and even when they are based on something 'real' that real thing is twisted into nonsense. The idea that there is such thing as an 'unambiguous' mass murder is pretty much ignoring history, because people will always try to justify themselves and even if there is any truth to imagined reasons that doesn't suddenly make it okay.
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# ? Oct 7, 2019 04:46 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:51 |
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Yeah the real moral of the story is that despite their past filled with atrocities (???), the Jews shouldn't have been Holocaust'd. Thanks Isayama.
Captain Cappy fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Oct 7, 2019 |
# ? Oct 7, 2019 04:49 |