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Kalli posted:There's duplicate protection, so it'll prevent you from opening Oko's from non-draft/sealed packs. Okay, so you opened a circle of loyalty instead of a mythic wildcard? I don't think that's a good thing.
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Nov 1, 2019 16:50
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Kalli posted:There's duplicate protection, so it'll prevent you from opening Oko's from non-draft/sealed packs. Wait, is that how duplicate protection works? I thought you get what you get without intervention, but cards you already have 4 copies of turn into gems? But then again last night I opened up a fifth Seven Dwarves and I don't believe it turned into gems unless it was really sneaky about it. And I know that owning just 4 copies let you out the full 7 in your standard deck, so I figured a 5th card would trip the protection.
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Nov 1, 2019 16:51
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thespaceinvader posted:Why bother spending them though? It's not like you get back more than you spent. On top of what Kalli says, in the event he doesn't get banned in every format, you'll have free copies for Brawl or Historic or whatever.
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Nov 1, 2019 16:51
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The Bramble posted:Wait, is that how duplicate protection works? I thought you get what you get without intervention, but cards you already have 4 copies of turn into gems? But then again last night I opened up a fifth Seven Dwarves and I don't believe it turned into gems unless it was really sneaky about it. And I know that owning just 4 copies let you out the full 7 in your standard deck, so I figured a 5th card would trip the protection. Commons aren't protected.
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Nov 1, 2019 16:51
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Ok, I answered my own question by reading this. How pointlessly convoluted and complicated. https://draftsim.com/mtg-arena-vault/ Here's a question - do copies of commons and uncommons you get from draft picks or limited get applied to your "vault progress"?
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Nov 1, 2019 16:59
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The Bramble posted:Ok, I answered my own question by reading this. How pointlessly convoluted and complicated. Yes.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:00
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The Bramble posted:Wait, is that how duplicate protection works? I thought you get what you get without intervention, but cards you already have 4 copies of turn into gems? But then again last night I opened up a fifth Seven Dwarves and I don't believe it turned into gems unless it was really sneaky about it. And I know that owning just 4 copies let you out the full 7 in your standard deck, so I figured a 5th card would trip the protection. There is no duplicate protection for commons and uncommons if you open a fifth copy of those you just get vault progress. If you get a 5th copy of a rare/mythic as an individual card reward or in a draft/sealed pool it get 20/40 gems for it. If you open a store booster pack it will roll to see if you get a rare or a mythic and then force the rare/mythic to be one you don't have 4 of already. If you've got 4 of each card at that rarity then you just get gems instead.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:02
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Kalli posted:There's duplicate protection, so it'll prevent you from opening Oko's from non-draft/sealed packs. Fair enough, I thought you just got an equivalent wildcard instead if you drew a duplicate. The new common and uncommon only format looks like it could be fun...
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Nov 1, 2019 17:02
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thespaceinvader posted:Fair enough, I thought you just got an equivalent wildcard instead if you drew a duplicate. Oh I think we're all working on the assumption that Oko is getting banned. If that happens you'll get the wildcards you spent on him refunded. It's free real estate.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:11
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It's free real estate if you want to use Oko, yeah.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:15
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thespaceinvader posted:It's free real estate if you want to use Oko, yeah. Right. If you don't want to use oko, you might as well not craft him and slightly increase your chances of opening a mythic wildcard.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:21
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thespaceinvader posted:Fair enough, I thought you just got an equivalent wildcard instead if you drew a duplicate. The economy would disintegrate at that point since you could just finish a set (say, Guilds of Ravnica) and then whenever you need cards from another set for the next two years you just buy a pack of GRN for free wildcards. Lone Goat fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Nov 1, 2019 |
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Nov 1, 2019 17:24
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Dr. Stab posted:Right. If you don't want to use oko, you might as well not craft him and slightly increase your chances of opening a mythic wildcard. That's not how it works. Oko will stop appearing in non draft boosters until you have 4x of all the other mythic in ELD, then Oko will be there instead, then when you also have all 4 Oko, it'll give you 40 gems if your rare would have been a Mythic. So if you own Oko and he gets banned you get your wildcards replaced, can still use him in any formats he's not banned in (if any, lol), and you'll never have to worry about him showing up in boosters except draft, which will still get you a bunch of free wins.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:29
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do you get a WC if you open a banned card? I forgot
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Nov 1, 2019 17:31
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Lone Goat posted:That's not how it works. Oko will stop appearing in non draft boosters until you have 4x of all the other mythic in ELD, then Oko will be there instead, then when you also have all 4 Oko, it'll give you 40 gems if your rare would have been a Mythic. I mean for the present period where oko is unbanned. You're still able to open an oko unless you craft 4 right?
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Nov 1, 2019 17:34
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No Wave posted:do you get a WC if you open a banned card? I forgot They adjust the pack drops so that you won't pull a banned card until you've pulled literally every other card, but they don't give you WCs for them.
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Nov 1, 2019 17:38
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I'm fairly certain that a significant portion of "ropers" actually just have slightly dodgy internet connections. I just tried playing with a connection which is a little slow but good enough for most stuff and it was really miserable.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:01
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The one thing I really miss about Brawl is that it’s the only format in the game where white is good. Hushbringer is soooooo powerful in that format, I handily beat Yarvo, Niv, basically any non-oko green deck. Oketra Hatebears was a smashing success.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:07
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Dr. Stab posted:I mean for the present period where oko is unbanned. You're still able to open an oko unless you craft 4 right? ohhh i get it. as long as you haven't yet crafted Oko you can still receive it in a booster, yes. didn't realise you meant that you were going to leave Oko uncrafted in the hopes or opening one in boosters pre-ban if it is goes the same way as the Field of the Dead ban, they'll announce it on the Monday and it'll remain legal on arena until he Thursday patch and I think you can craft or before Thursday to get the wildcard refund? I already had 4 fotd before the announcement so I'm not sure.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:25
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Bust Rodd posted:The one thing I really miss about Brawl is that it’s the only format in the game where white is good. draft bots are undervaluing Ardenvale Tactician and Faerie Guidemother so white is actually pretty good in ELD draft, especially with Lucky Clover which the bots also hate 
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Nov 1, 2019 19:28
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Filling out your Oko playset now is probably like, the safest thing you could ever possibly craft in Arena. You either get 4 Okos to play in Historic, Brawl or whatever you like and your WCs back, or if for some stupid reason it isn't banned, you get to keep one of the most busted PWs ever that will dominate any format it touches.
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Nov 1, 2019 19:34
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I am so looking forward to the common/uncommon only... Oko IS rare or mythic, right? I was doing OK in standard-play matches with the first c/u only deck I put together. It seems like about 90% of the components for mono-red hyper-aggro survive into that format just fine...
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Nov 1, 2019 19:40
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https://twitter.com/F2KTruedawn/status/1190345024720064512 Isn't like everything a kitchen table deck in Pioneer at this point
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Nov 1, 2019 20:16
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like 95% of the skill in magic is properly identifying the meta and building a deck to deal with it, so if the meta is brand new, you are gonna have a much harder time building for it because you have to predict rather than research. 3% of the remaining skill is having read cards and being able to remember what they do, 2% is actually playing the game
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Nov 1, 2019 20:27
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cams posted:like 95% of the skill in magic is properly identifying the meta and building a deck to deal with it, so if the meta is brand new, you are gonna have a much harder time building for it because you have to predict rather than research. When my friends were hurf durf serious about mtg we often said (regarding tournament magic) the first person to think loses.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:30
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/F2KTruedawn/status/1190345024720064512 lol that he lost to a "dogshit dragon deck" and thinks that doesn't reflect badly on him.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:34
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pointsofdata posted:I'm fairly certain that a significant portion of "ropers" actually just have slightly dodgy internet connections. I just tried playing with a connection which is a little slow but good enough for most stuff and it was really miserable. I've been saying this for awhile. Actual ropers are usually very obvious, it will start when you play some bomb they don't have a good counter to and then they will just slow play. If they start roping on T2 or T3 before your deck gets going, it's either a client problem or a network problem.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:46
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the biggest """skill""" pro players have that others don't is putting their opponent on a specific card, that is, figuring out what they're holding based on their play pattern. even that is much more meta familiarity than some kind of secret magic jutsu. like, i'm nowhere near pro, and the other day i figured out pretty early on that my WB draft opponent was holding a silverflame squire. from then on i just never presented any opportunity for him to get value from it until he was forced to use it in a bad situation to 2-for-1 himself. had i just played into it like a dope i would have lost valuable early tempo and possibly fallen behind in the game, but because i didn't, he was the one who lost tempo by holding it up.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:52
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I'd probably be a lot better if I wasn't always stoned and distracted and loving around on the internet while playing, but then I wouldn't be having fun and I'd rather have fun than be good. Also my cap probably isn't even that high, at my very, very try-hardest I could probably manage to finish in an MCQ position like once.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:55
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the biggest """skill""" pro players have that others don't is putting their opponent on a specific card, that is, figuring out what they're holding based on their play pattern. even that is much more meta familiarity than some kind of secret magic jutsu. like, i'm nowhere near pro, and the other day i figured out pretty early on that my WB draft opponent was holding a silverflame squire. from then on i just never presented any opportunity for him to get value from it until he was forced to use it in a bad situation to 2-for-1 himself. had i just played into it like a dope i would have lost valuable early tempo and possibly fallen behind in the game, but because i didn't, he was the one who lost tempo by holding it up. It also helps that most of those pro players are primarily playing against other people at or near their skill level - so they're mostly seeing different iterations of the same few decks. That's why decks like that Kethis Combo from a few months ago are always so entertaining to see. It's completely out of the meta now, as far as I can tell, but it took basically everyone by surprise and forced them to adapt.
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Nov 1, 2019 20:55
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:the biggest """skill""" pro players have that others don't is putting their opponent on a specific card, that is, figuring out what they're holding based on their play pattern. even that is much more meta familiarity than some kind of secret magic jutsu. like, i'm nowhere near pro, and the other day i figured out pretty early on that my WB draft opponent was holding a silverflame squire. from then on i just never presented any opportunity for him to get value from it until he was forced to use it in a bad situation to 2-for-1 himself. had i just played into it like a dope i would have lost valuable early tempo and possibly fallen behind in the game, but because i didn't, he was the one who lost tempo by holding it up. Yep once you pilot a meta deck long enough against other meta decks it comes down to reading opponents and predicting lines of play. You see bluffs all the time in pro MTG because of that reason. There's fun to be had with that but I just find it so incredibly boring, especially mirror matchups. On the flip side the complete wild nature of draft makes MTG kind of crapshoot when predicting what your opponent has. It's cool to suss out the silverflame squire but with my luck that could have been any number of WB instants. Same with trying to predict if I should counter a three drop in limited not knowing if my opponent has bigger drops behind it or a bunch of trash. Usually when I don't counterspell it's a bunch of trash smaller drops and when I do they drop some huge bomb next turn. My favorite balance is me and my opponent running off meta decks but with enough theme to sort of guess what's coming next. Sort of the best of both worlds.
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Nov 1, 2019 21:06
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thespaceinvader posted:It's free real estate if you want to use Oko, yeah. Except if Oko getting banned kills that entire deck archetype. I probably dumped 12-15 WC to build Bant last month and will be kind of miffed if the ban kills the deck entirely. Oko should be banned for the good of the format but WotC kind of gets to have its cake and eat it too by killing 30 WC of value and only paying back 4 mythics when I have to go and build something else that's competitive.
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Nov 1, 2019 21:32
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i spent all my wildcards on golos and simic food, so when oko gets banned i am hosed on building any more for a whiiiiile. kinda bummed but whatevs.
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Nov 1, 2019 21:37
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Doltos posted:Yep once you pilot a meta deck long enough against other meta decks it comes down to reading opponents and predicting lines of play. You see bluffs all the time in pro MTG because of that reason. There's fun to be had with that but I just find it so incredibly boring, especially mirror matchups. On the flip side the complete wild nature of draft makes MTG kind of crapshoot when predicting what your opponent has. It's cool to suss out the silverflame squire but with my luck that could have been any number of WB instants. Same with trying to predict if I should counter a three drop in limited not knowing if my opponent has bigger drops behind it or a bunch of trash. Usually when I don't counterspell it's a bunch of trash smaller drops and when I do they drop some huge bomb next turn. the thing with the silverflame squire example is that it really can't be any number of WB instants - the other things they can have in this particular are either cheaper (outflank) or far less likely to be included in a deck in the first place because they aren't very good cards (lash of thorns, righteousness, shining armor). if an opponent is consistently holding up 3+ mana with cards in hand it really can't be much other than squire, which is the kind of situational awareness he was talking about (im sure now that i wrote all these words there's a trick im forgetting and im going to get owned for it) as far as counterspells in limited, my opinion is that if you took turn 3 off to hold a didn't say please instead of play a guy (or you didn't have anything else to do for some reason (the reason is you didn't mulligan)) you are absolutely obligated to counter whatever they play or you fall way too behind on board. like, if you let them resolve a 3 drop, then play a 4 drop next turn, then they play their 4 drop and you're way behind on tempo, with a counterspell in your hand which is not a card you want to hold when behind. note that the above doesn't really apply if you have something else to do with your mana, like if you pass turn 4 with the ability to pop a witching well if they don't play anything worth countering
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Nov 1, 2019 21:52
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house of the dad posted:Except if Oko getting banned kills that entire deck archetype. I probably dumped 12-15 WC to build Bant last month and will be kind of miffed if the ban kills the deck entirely. Oko should be banned for the good of the format but WotC kind of gets to have its cake and eat it too by killing 30 WC of value and only paying back 4 mythics when I have to go and build something else that's competitive. You’re still playing a Nissa/Hydroid Krasis deck, that’s not going away. https://twitter.com/f2ktruedawn/status/1190349864305143809?s=21 LoL this dude literally couldn’t beat a Gruul Aggro deck playing zero removal, maybe your strategy uh just sucks bro
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Nov 1, 2019 22:05
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Pros being mad about not winning at a game that includes a large amount of chance will never get old for me.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:15
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It's hard to garner sympathy for your Green Devotion deck losing to a homebrew.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:37
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Hey how are you supposed to deal with removal as a Simic deck. Counterspells the only way? Move your creatures back into your hand? Thoughts and prayers?
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Nov 1, 2019 22:38
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Bust Rodd posted:
I don't know why he can get mad at losing to a jank deck because the opponent got a bunch of great draws, like surely he'd lose even harder to a better deck in that situation? Like be pissed at people getting lucky, sure, but what they're playing shouldn't come into it.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:38
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Vando posted:I don't know why he can get mad at losing to a jank deck because the opponent got a bunch of great draws, like surely he'd lose even harder to a better deck in that situation? Like be pissed at people getting lucky, sure, but what they're playing shouldn't come into it. In theory it's more frustrating to lose to the singleton combo deck that drew the exact specific sequence of cards it needed to crush you despite the fact that you'd win against it 99% of the time normally. It feels like losing to a joke character in a fighting game. In practice, you just got dumpstered, sorry buddy but maybe you're not as good as you think you are. Or you got wrecked by RNG, or a combination thereof. It happens.
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Nov 1, 2019 22:50
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