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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It won't be more 'balanced' it'll just gravitate toward a new meta set of like 10 pokemon you pick from. All this has happened before and all this will happen again. there's always gonna be a top level, yea, but tbh I'm just ok with anything that changes the top level from the exact same mons with maybe one or two rotating slots and the typical legendary allowance. Like, yea I have some faves that didn't make the cut, I don't think everyone upset about it is some shitter or whatever, but I've just gotten to not being able to give a poo poo about the dexit and just kinda looking forward to some new pokemon experiences.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:45
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The game will be piss easy either way. It is a game for actual babies. Gen 6/7 were legit challenging with no EXP Share. I actually lost during several major fights and had to think about what the hell I was doing. ...Set mode is still in the game, right??
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Nov 10, 2019 00:48
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i don't care that much about the exp share thing, but the reasoning behind it I don't understand. if it's a thing supposed to encourage people to switch around their teams frequently and use a wider variety of pokes, then make Rare Candies more easily available. Have a Rare Candy berry tree if it's a concern with kids losing their interest if they come across a hard fight, then the day has finally come where i've grown out of touch with the youth and turned into a "back in my day" grandpa, cause gym leaders like Lt. Surge and Whitney are the most memorable parts of their respective games whereas Erika or the Johto ice gym are forgettable. And the games have gotten progressively easier as time went on with gym leaders, rivals, elite four and even champions not having a full roster. The only notable exception might have been Ultra Necrozma, and only if you were not using every resource available to you, cause Rotom powers make that fight infinitely easier.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:48
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Kite Pride Worldwide posted:Gen 6/7 were legit challenging with no EXP Share. I actually lost during several major fights and had to think about what the hell I was doing. the first time i played through Moon blind i turned off exp share and put on set mode and had a great time. it wasn't a nuzlocke and there weren't any other challenge or meta rules in place, it was all stuff within the game. i fought the elite four with my highest level mon around 44 (10 levels below the lowest level E4) when i stepped in and as a result had to use a lot more status moves, set-up moves, etc. i have no idea if this is the best way to play or whatever but it was cool for me.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:51
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lezard_valeth posted:i don't care that much about the exp share thing, but the reasoning behind it I don't understand. They probably would prefer to balance about EXP share being a thing than having to balance around both. Pokemon is not going to be hard, ever, because by necessity it has to be designed for a 8 year old who just spams one move over and over to reasonably have a chance of finishing. It is a game designed for young children with the intent that Genuine Challenge comes from competitive play against other players, not PvE. You can argue that they should include bonus optional difficulty modes for people who want it to be challenging but considering the insane work schedules they seem to be under to push stuff out as fast as possible that's probably not particularly easy to do, especially on the first game on a new console.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:52
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SirSamVimes posted:Wait, people dislike Toucannon? I don’t! I loved his grumpy face and laser beak and I used one to get through the main game. But there are people who dislike it for being basically just a toucan. They didn’t really put much of a spin on it, design-wise.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:53
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Toucannon is the best early-game bird since Staraptor.
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Nov 10, 2019 00:55
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Countblanc posted:the first time i played through Moon blind i turned off exp share and put on set mode and had a great time. it wasn't a nuzlocke and there weren't any other challenge or meta rules in place, it was all stuff within the game. i fought the elite four with my highest level mon around 44 (10 levels below the lowest level E4) when i stepped in and as a result had to use a lot more status moves, set-up moves, etc. Hell yeah  SM's E4 loving dunked me really hard. Honestly I really think Gen 6/7 were balanced around not using EXP share, with on being an easy mode; all the enemy trainer levels sync up perfectly to what the older games would have been like when you have it turned off.The series is legit challenging and really fun if you ignore all the OP stuff they give you like free Megas and Z-Moves and the EXP Share and stuff. I can't wait to flagrantly ignore Dynamaxing too. I guess if things are still undertuned difficulty-wise I'll just have to run a massive roster to bring the average EXP levels down. Kite Pride Worldwide fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 00:57
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ImpAtom posted:They probably would prefer to balance about EXP share being a thing than having to balance around both. You literally don’t have to balance around it though! If someone turns it off they’re doing it knowing what they’re getting into.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:01
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Honestly I really don't get the "Pokémon is for kids" thing, with the Exp. Share off XY to a lesser extent, but especially SM are actually pretty difficult, and even before those I went back and played some older games like Platinum and Emerald last year and had a fair bit of trouble at some parts. Granted I did just use the mons I liked and never grinded off wild mons, only beating all the trainers because hahaha gently caress going through Hoenn without perma repels, but still. I did also ignore Megas and Z-Moves but those are so rarely used by trainers anyway they just feel like appropriate bosses when they do pop up since I can't just abuse them 
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Nov 10, 2019 01:02
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lezard_valeth posted:if it's a concern with kids losing their interest if they come across a hard fight, then the day has finally come where i've grown out of touch with the youth and turned into a "back in my day" grandpa, cause gym leaders like Lt. Surge and Whitney are the most memorable parts of their respective games whereas Erika or the Johto ice gym are forgettable. And the games have gotten progressively easier as time went on with gym leaders, rivals, elite four and even champions not having a full roster. The only notable exception might have been Ultra Necrozma, and only if you were not using every resource available to you, cause Rotom powers make that fight infinitely easier. ImpAtom posted:They probably would prefer to balance about EXP share being a thing than having to balance around both. as for difficulty options: they already made them for BW2, and the changes boiled down to "let standard trainers use the higher AI settings we normally reserve for bosses, add an extra pokemon to the gym leaders, and use an algorithm to bump up the enemy trainer levels a little bit." That's a super basic difficulty adjustment, and yet it made the game more fun and interesting. I was able to use poo poo like Haxorus and Excadrill without steamrolling the game, it was great.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:08
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Polderjoch posted:Honestly I really don't get the "Pokémon is for kids" thing You play as a kid in the games and the main characters are kids and there are pokemon cereals and happy meals
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Nov 10, 2019 01:08
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TheKingofSprings posted:You literally don’t have to balance around it though! If someone turns it off they’re doing it knowing what they’re getting into. This argument unfortunately doesn't hold as much weight when you're talking about a game designed for young children, who are both impatient and easily misunderstand things. A lot of the problems with Pokemon stem from it hanging on to a bunch of weird legacy mechanics or erring on the side of caution with making sure children don't lock themselves into unfun situations by mistake. A lot of adults do play Pokemon games but it's generally with the understanding it's a franchise for kids. Polderjoch posted:Honestly I really don't get the "Pokémon is for kids" thing, with the Exp. Share off XY to a lesser extent, but especially SM are actually pretty difficult, and even before those I went back and played some older games like Platinum and Emerald last year and had a fair bit of trouble at some parts. Granted I did just use the mons I liked and never grinded off wild mons, only beating all the trainers because hahaha gently caress going through Hoenn without perma repels, but still. "Pokemon is very difficult if I intentionally handicap myself" doesn't prevent it also from being for kids. Intentional handicaps are a way people try to make games they've mastered more interesting. The Pokemon franchise is and always has been absurdly easy barring a few optional challenge areas. This is because it is designed with the core idea being "the story is just for fun and to collect stuff so that you can compete with other people." Pokemon has issues with being competitive but that's more because GF isn't the best as designing for competitive and also had almost a thousand Pokemon so any attempt at balancing is a fool's errand. (For the record I doubt 400 will be any better balanced but we'll see.)
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Nov 10, 2019 01:10
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Countblanc posted:the first time i played through Moon blind i turned off exp share and put on set mode and had a great time. it wasn't a nuzlocke and there weren't any other challenge or meta rules in place, it was all stuff within the game. i fought the elite four with my highest level mon around 44 (10 levels below the lowest level E4) when i stepped in and as a result had to use a lot more status moves, set-up moves, etc. i had a similar experience with running a Ghost team in Moon when it first came out. There were quite a few fights (i can't remember who) that gave me trouble, and it certainly forced me to do more than just bulldoze through the game. I want to try running a rock/steel/fire team in Sword.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:20
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I feel like I don't have a terribly great amount to contribute, but after idly browsing to the Pokemon reddit I was genuinely taken aback by the scale of the meltdown. We go on about forums meltdowns and reddit being reddit and whatnot, but this is the largest-scale community meltdown in the video game realm I've seen in quite a few years. Meanwhile I'm just curious about the games and want to try them because a lot of the QoL changes look neat and seem like they'll make multiplayer a lot more convenient  That said, if the dex leaks are true, it baffles me how in the world Lillipup and Snubbull didn't make the cut. They are literally the most British pokemon ever designed and there was even tons of room for a third stage of Snubbull. ImpAtom posted:This argument unfortunately doesn't hold as much weight when you're talking about a game designed for young children, who are both impatient and easily misunderstand things. A lot of the problems with Pokemon stem from it hanging on to a bunch of weird legacy mechanics or erring on the side of caution with making sure children don't lock themselves into unfun situations by mistake. A lot of adults do play Pokemon games but it's generally with the understanding it's a franchise for kids. See though, this still doesn't track with my own experiences with kids, including my own childhood; my experience with kids and games is that, more often than not, if the game gets hard, they'll just buckle down and try to beat it. It's possible that isn't true today (or at least is seen as not being true) due to the absurd cornucopia of distractions, amusements and time wasters available to human beings in the year of our Arceus 2019, but I'd still have my own doubts about that being the case. If the games are being designed to be "easy for kids", then I think that design is itself wrong-headed.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:21
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a lot of this would be fixed if pokemon had different difficulties. like, "normal mode" and "hard mode", with the difference being stuff like levels, full teams or not, and occasionally held items or gimmick 'mons.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:25
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Radio Free Kobold posted:a lot of this would be fixed if pokemon had different difficulties. like, "normal mode" and "hard mode", with the difference being stuff like levels, full teams or not, and occasionally held items or gimmick 'mons. There was an attempt in Black 2 and White 2, but the only way to enable them was through linking them with other completed games and was ridiculously obtuse.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:28
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also iirc "easy mode" ended up actually being harder by virtue of getting less exp unless you really decide to grind wild mons
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Nov 10, 2019 01:34
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I know these games are for kids, but I still think having a hard mode like in black and white 2 would be a good idea. Also, unlike Black and White 2, make the hard mode easier to access.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:36
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So, what would hard mode entail, beyond no exp share? Reducing exp gain makes it more grindy, so I'm eh on that, but am interested in other ideas.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:38
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iospace posted:So, what would hard mode entail, beyond no exp share? Reducing exp gain makes it more grindy, so I'm eh on that. make enemy trainers have more and stronger mons is the big one, especially important fights or gyms. i don't really think most people just want more grinding, i certainly don't. that said to avoid gen 5's hard mode's pitfall of becoming easier by virtue of stronger mons granting more exp you'd probably adjust exp down a bit but since trainers have more things to fight it'd even out.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:40
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iospace posted:So, what would hard mode entail, beyond no exp share? Reducing exp gain makes it more grindy, so I'm eh on that, but am interested in other ideas. 1) NPC trainers that are not nearly entirely pushovers.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:41
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qnqnx posted:1) NPC trainers that are not nearly entirely pushovers. Like some of the trainers in Alola you could only fight after beating all the other trainers on a route. I still have nightmares about that one early game dude with a Butterfree that only knew Silver Wind and Roost.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:45
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SpaceDrake posted:See though, this still doesn't track with my own experiences with kids, including my own childhood; my experience with kids and games is that, more often than not, if the game gets hard, they'll just buckle down and try to beat it. It's possible that isn't true today (or at least is seen as not being true) due to the absurd cornucopia of distractions, amusements and time wasters available to human beings in the year of our Arceus 2019, but I'd still have my own doubts about that being the case. If the games are being designed to be "easy for kids", then I think that design is itself wrong-headed. Zuzie posted:There was an attempt in Black 2 and White 2, but the only way to enable them was through linking them with other completed games and was ridiculously obtuse.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:45
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the fights in each route should be designed to teach mastery of a particular mechanic/competitive meta element
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Nov 10, 2019 01:47
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Live Free posted:the fights in each route should be designed to teach mastery of a particular mechanic/competitive meta element a mainline game with nothing but doubles? a very brave thought
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Nov 10, 2019 01:57
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Live Free posted:the fights in each route should be designed to teach mastery of a particular mechanic/competitive meta element Actually I wish the main campaign actually did teach the player how competitive Pokemon is run. Its weird that VGC rules run on something that's vastly different then the main campaign.
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Nov 10, 2019 01:58
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Open Marriage Night posted:Are you playing the Gen 1 or 2 game on the DS Virtual Console? You can use that with the Poketransporter, and get those Pokémon on your later generation games with their Hidden Abilities. I was more looking to move Pokémon between gen 1 and 2 games and not play 6th gen at all
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Nov 10, 2019 01:59
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I feel trick room would be much harder in singles
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Nov 10, 2019 01:59
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Brother Entropy posted:a mainline game with nothing but doubles? a very brave thought Pokemon Colosseum and XD were very good.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:00
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Instead of each route and dungeon having dozens of trainers each having one or two pokemon each, have 3-6 or so with actual teams of 4-6 mons. On top of this a good way to make a Hard Mode would just be to allow trainers to actually evolve up their team. I should not be fighting a Remoraid trainer outside Victory Road. That can be on Kids Game Mode.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:00
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Brother Entropy posted:a mainline game with nothing but doubles? a very brave thought
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Nov 10, 2019 02:00
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pospysyl posted:Pokemon Colosseum and XD were very good. i never actually played them 
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Nov 10, 2019 02:01
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Brother Entropy posted:i never actually played them they're about as easy to get ahold of as Path of Radiance is, so your only option is either  or  , but still, they're much more replayable than most of gen 1-3
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Nov 10, 2019 02:05
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Zuzie posted:Actually I wish the main campaign actually did teach the player how competitive Pokemon is run. Its weird that VGC rules run on something that's vastly different then the main campaign. I don't think I saw a single entry hazard in ORAS until the literal champion fight where Steven used Spikes. Actually that would be a cool way to freshen up Gyms. Instead of the types have each teach you about a gameplay aspect. This Gym uses entry hazards, this Gym uses Switch-Out moves, etc.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:05
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Blaziken386 posted:as someone who works with elem school kids - the ones who're old enough to play video games are generally incredibly stubborn, have lots of free time, and don't care for being condescended to at all. Kindergarteners might be entranced solely by flashy lights, but 5th graders (aka, 10 year olds, aka, who the games are ostensibly marketed to) aren't afraid of challenge at all. Yeah. Whoever buys into the 'games should be easy cause their made for kids!' either doesn't remember how much they banged their head against the wall with whatever they were playing when they were growing up, or doesn't really know how kids operate.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:09
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Blaziken386 posted:they're good I’ve said it before, they should port one or both of those to the Switch one day.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:09
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Larryb posted:I’ve said it before, they should port one or both of those to the Switch one day. 
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Nov 10, 2019 02:20
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Paul MaudDib posted:I was more looking to move Pokémon between gen 1 and 2 games and not play 6th gen at all I'm like 80% sure that VC -> bank is a one way transfer.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:23
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galagazombie posted:I don't think I saw a single entry hazard in ORAS until the literal champion fight where Steven used Spikes. Actually that would be a cool way to freshen up Gyms. Instead of the types have each teach you about a gameplay aspect. This Gym uses entry hazards, this Gym uses Switch-Out moves, etc. which gym teaches how to do a wake up shoryuken?
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Nov 10, 2019 02:23
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