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100 HOGS AGREE posted:But I thought he was giving all his money away!!! That dastardly wealth tax made him take it all back.
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Nov 16, 2019 21:27
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:But I thought he was giving all his money away!!! A billion dollar bill is made out of glitter and has the same magical effect. As soon as you have a little they'll just keep popping up places. From nothing. Do not question the narrative or we'll pull your org's foundation grants.
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Nov 16, 2019 21:30
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If you thought Uber was poo poo... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/15/nyregion/amazon-mechanical-turk.html quote:After turking for eight hours, the author had earned $7.83. quote:Most tasks pay a dime or less, and there is a daily churn of tasks that pay only a penny.
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Nov 16, 2019 21:41
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https://twitter.com/pulte/status/1195750417684144134
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Nov 16, 2019 22:24
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Ban this man for death threats
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Nov 16, 2019 22:34
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FacelessVoid posted:If you thought Uber was poo poo... Wait... from what I read here this seems to suggest that a ton of the internet's so-called "machine learning" information is actually generated by people who are paid a cent to describe the contents of the photo
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Nov 17, 2019 02:44
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FacelessVoid posted:If you thought Uber was poo poo... quote:Katie Boehm of Pittsburgh turned to turking in 2017 after her husband, who has diabetes, lost his job and insurance coverage. Her own health issues keep her from working outside the house, and turking seemed like a lifeline. Richest country in the world quote:I mentioned that the one Lead Liaison task I did, transcribing a card covered in handwriting, took me 84 seconds, yielding an effective hourly wage of $1.29, and asked whether that was an issue for him. 
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Nov 17, 2019 02:52
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WampaLord posted:Richest country in the world It's almost comically dystopian that people are literally acting as human computers to (partially!) pay for medicine.
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Nov 17, 2019 03:36
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WampaLord posted:Richest country in the world Full quote, c'mon quote:One requester I talked to has found MTurk quite effective. For a year, Ryan Schefke, the founder of a Texas company called Lead Liaison, has used turkers to transcribe business cards that salespeople collect at events. The contacts go into a database of sales prospects, a process known as “lead capture.”
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Nov 17, 2019 06:21
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CommonShore posted:Wait... from what I read here this seems to suggest that a ton of the internet's so-called "machine learning" information is actually generated by people who are paid a cent to describe the contents of the photo Most image classification applications require tons and tons of training data. You need thousands of pictured labelled cat and thousands of pictures labelled dog to get a neural network that can tell cat from dog. That's what they're talking about in the article. They used to do the thing where they directly marketed mechturk output as "artificial intelligence" when the field was much less mature and you needed heavy human supervision to do things like transcribe books.
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Nov 17, 2019 07:22
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I've worked in a machine learning, data entry automating startup where the idea was that while also employing a group of labelers who did nothing but label training data full-time, the system worked "good enough" for it to basically pre-label the data for whoever was going to do the job otherwise, who'd then check the neural nets work, correct it if needed, and file it as normal. In doing so they were actively teaching their own machine learning based replacement. It worked frighteningly well. Ultimately they got rid of all undergrad developers and I basically haven't touched machine learning ever since because I literally used to lay sleepless feeling guilty about that entire deal.
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Nov 17, 2019 07:59
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Full quote, c'mon The funniest thing is that Amazon Turk offers a non insignificant amount of money from tasks if you get a program that gets good enough results and can run it en mass. But you also need to find ways to make them not be like bots, I'm imagining a mispelling RNG engine for lying to amazon. Of course this puts potentially thousands of very poor people out of work over like $100-500 a month. Also I guess if I move to Manila I can get a decent wage transcribing cards after being put on the guillotine list for above.
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Nov 17, 2019 08:48
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I came pretty close to living in the Philippines a couple of years ago, and have friends who are natives of the islands. That dude is full of poo poo. Even unskilled labor earns closer to $5/day, and the average yearly salary ranges from like $8,000 - $18,000, depending on where in the country you're looking. In short, that psychopath had to downgrade salaries in the Philippines to make his company's lovely payouts look better, and he should be put to death. Edit: I just did a quick Google. Apparently, some crop-specific agriculture jobs might fall below turking on the pay scale, I mean, I get that things are worse in other places, but come one. How do you even attempt to justify paying people $1/hour? I just realized I mish-mashed a bunch of thoughts in my fury at that scumbag. Let's just say I think he sucks, and paying people a penny to "turk" things should be globally illegal and result in immolation of anyone in charge of a company which does that. Edit again: quote:Compared to professionals based in developed countries like the USA and UK, professionals in the Philippines earn a much lower annual salary — sometimes even 70% to 90% less — despite having the same responsibilities. That may sound like it’s a bad thing, but it’s not; it’s actually a win-win situation for both the company and the outsourced labor force. There are not enough loving guillotines on this planet to handle the job. I need to take a break from this world. Veni Vidi Ameche! has issued a correction as of 12:34 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 12:26
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Do people in the Philippines work less that 4 hours a day?
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Nov 17, 2019 12:35
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My favorite part of the quote is how his example of "another job" a turker might do is "pick cotton." Of all the options out there, my guy chooses "pick cotton."
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Nov 17, 2019 16:52
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T-man posted:The funniest thing is that Amazon Turk offers a non insignificant amount of money from tasks if you get a program that gets good enough results and can run it en mass. But you also need to find ways to make them not be like bots, I'm imagining a mispelling RNG engine for lying to amazon. Of course this puts potentially thousands of very poor people out of work over like $100-500 a month. How does Turk know if you're lying to it, or if any of the poo poo is accurate? Are there tasks where Turkers audit tasks completed by other Turkers? Who Turks the Turkers?
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Nov 17, 2019 16:57
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Ytlaya posted:It's almost comically dystopian that people are literally acting as human computers to (partially!) pay for medicine. "Silly insulin." I'm trying to be glib but this is loving infuriating poo poo.
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Nov 17, 2019 17:02
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Multiple people do the same task in order to check for fake inputs or mistakes. Yes, paying ten people to do the same job is still more cost effective than paying one person a decent wage, especially since these people are being paid less than a slave's upkeep would cost. With traditional slaves you had to keep them alive and in good condition. By removing those costs a lot of money is saved and companies can work much more efficiently Elman has issued a correction as of 17:27 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 17:09
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Elman posted:Multiple people do the same task in order to check for fake inputs or mistakes. Yes, paying ten people to do the same job is still more cost effective than paying one person a decent wage, especially since these people are being paid less than a slave's upkeep would cost.
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Nov 17, 2019 17:37
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CommonShore posted:Wait... from what I read here this seems to suggest that a ton of the internet's so-called "machine learning" information is actually generated by people who are paid a cent to describe the contents of the photo Generally yes. Machine learning narrowly applies to specific situations and most of the time when marketing talks about machine learning it's just Mechanical Turk poo poo.
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Nov 17, 2019 18:16
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Teal posted:
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Nov 17, 2019 18:21
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for guillotine.mp4, take a look at this debate between the ceo of whole foods and some clod from reason magazine vs richard wolff and some clod from jacobin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROT2HjxovsE check out the moment around 1:01:00 for someone getting rekt.
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Nov 17, 2019 18:31
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Why? That sounds like it's replacing poo poo jobs that should be replaced. Jobs are poo poo, there is no dignity in labor, automate them all. Agreed, once we actually have a plan to provide for people so that they don't have to work you moron
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Nov 17, 2019 18:31
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the minimum wage in the Philippines varies between 9.90 USD to 11.88 USD, depending on the region and the work involved, for a day's work/8-hour shift entry level call center jobs offer salaries of anywhere between 350 to 400 USD/month, or about 16 USD per day, plus benefits
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Nov 17, 2019 18:43
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There is dignity in labor, but there is only drudgery nowadays, no one wants to pay for labor so they create drudgery instead and leave the labor undone.
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Nov 17, 2019 19:25
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:for guillotine.mp4, take a look at this debate between the ceo of whole foods and some clod from reason magazine vs richard wolff and some clod from jacobin The jacobin guy is not very good, the whole foods guy and libertarian were infuriating. Mostly they spent too much time being pedantic and lacked any strong ideological basis other than saying "we exist and you wear clothes so capitalism must be good" Meanwhile Wolff is where the discussion should be, a cultural one. I think capitalists/liberatarians are just incapable of that kind of connection dealt with by Wolff's marxist perspective. Which is that our society needs to be one in solidarity that works towards happiness and larger goals, not pure meaningless consumption for its own sake. Liberals also fall for this, they can't imagine that cultures can change and we might be in the wrong cultural configuration. The idea that we can work towards better things together, even multiple things at once is not even comprehensible to many and I wish it was more highlighted in these types of debates.
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Nov 17, 2019 19:55
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I do enjoy that big time CEOs are 100% genius tier innovators until their system is challenged then suddenly innovation and better things are no longer possible.
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Nov 17, 2019 20:02
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https://twitter.com/dorseyshaw/status/1195767971618205696?s=21
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Nov 17, 2019 20:26
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Gene Hackman Fan posted:for guillotine.mp4, take a look at this debate between the ceo of whole foods and some clod from reason magazine vs richard wolff and some clod from jacobin John whatever CEO from whole foods got so pissed off he got called a dictator that he said nazis were socialist The reason magazine women just sat there smiling like a psychopath The jacobin guy was whatever but the wolff spread the word and didnt get shaken once Good debate
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Nov 17, 2019 22:41
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:Why? That sounds like it's replacing poo poo jobs that should be replaced. Jobs are poo poo, there is no dignity in labor, automate them all. sure I keep telling myself that but yet somehow it couldn't help me sleep well no better keep in mind that these turk gigs are a lot worse than the typical data entry position the business I was developing for aims to replace; these jobs are done here typically by people on fulltime above-minimum wage and it's boring but for someone who enjoys calm and asocial job beats a waitress or retail massively
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Nov 17, 2019 23:33
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if anyone anywhere is ever forced to take this job capitalism has officially failed as an efficient distributor of goods and services, sure hope that don't happen
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Nov 18, 2019 00:04
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We have a literally limitless quantity of evidence that it has, that job notwithstanding.
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Nov 18, 2019 00:07
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tbh I can imagine lot worse jobs that shooting someone rich rear end in a top hat's ugly kids and occasionally cleaning the mess of course they still better pay for the ammo
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Nov 18, 2019 00:11
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woosh
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Nov 18, 2019 00:12
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Regarding the Philippines stuff, how does that compare with living costs? Even in American $15 can go extremely different lengths depending on where you live.Warmachine posted:My favorite part of the quote is how his example of "another job" a turker might do is "pick cotton." That stood right out to me when I read it too. What the hell. ate poo poo on live tv posted:Why? That sounds like it's replacing poo poo jobs that should be replaced. Jobs are poo poo, there is no dignity in labor, automate them all. It's been said already but these are already poo poo-tier jobs, if these go away without some sort of UBI type of deal then "silly insulin" turns into "dead" There's also the case that machine learning is being used to replace humans in cases where having an actual human would provide far better results. Transcription is one of them, but also video analysis, surveillance, etc.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:17
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 https://twitter.com/robrousseau/status/1196135726401966080
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Nov 18, 2019 02:30
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Nov 18, 2019 02:39
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A nervous looking Bernie was seen fleeing the scene.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:40
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etalian posted:A nervous looking Bernie was seen fleeing the scene. He'd look defiant, not nervous.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:44
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Captain_Maclaine posted:He'd look defiant, not nervous. When Bernie visited Maryland in 2016 primary there were a series of yacht burnings.
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Nov 18, 2019 02:44
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