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Alhazred posted:Just finished Dust of Dreams and....the part with Hetan is just loving vile. First of all it's extremely gratuitous (Hetan isn't just raped, she's crippled, raped by two dozen men and turned into the tribe's sex slave). What makes it even worse is that it follows the pattern of Midnight Tides, a woman is raped so the male characters can get upset about it and swear revenge while the rape victim just wanders off and die without any agency. Steven Erikson tries to justify it with making it about patriarchy but that just feels wildly out of place, this is a book about armies of velociraptors and undead cro magnon men, not the Handmaid's Tale. It's an absolute low point of the entire series. You're missing one part of the characterization I this scene, which is extremely horrible in every way, in that it is also a deconstruction of the entire Barghast culture, not just "patriarchy" as the "ancient culture Noble savage." I loving hated reading it though.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:22
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pile of brown posted:You're missing one part of the characterization I this scene, which is extremely horrible in every way, in that it is also a deconstruction of the entire Barghast culture, not just "patriarchy" as the "ancient culture Noble savage." I loving hated reading it though. But we allready know that their culture is a macho cesspit, we also know beforehand that they practice "hobbling" and that everyone else despises them for it. There is no deconstruction.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:36
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There is just too much goddamed rape In this series.
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Dec 13, 2019 13:43
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Alhazred posted:But we allready know that their culture is a macho cesspit, we also know beforehand that they practice "hobbling" and that everyone else despises them for it. There is no deconstruction. Not really? Before it happens all we really know about the Barghast are that they're cool tribal people helping Brood or the Malazan. The first we hear of the hobbling or really anything about their culture out side of warfare or politics is when the one Barghast chief tells the queen about it and she's rather upset but it's never even alluded to before that. I'm sure everyone gets why it's there especially after the Tor interview but Erikson really didn't need to go into the detail he did. Added the post I was replying to. Guyver fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 13, 2019 |
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Dec 13, 2019 13:55
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Meanwhile the atrocities of the seventh cities, the crucifixation of an entire army, the horrors of the Snake and Kallors genocide goes unremarked.
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Dec 13, 2019 17:13
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Guyver posted:I'm sure everyone gets why it's there especially after the Tor interview but Erikson really didn't need to go into the detail he did.
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Dec 13, 2019 17:41
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Cardiac posted:Meanwhile the atrocities of the seventh cities, the crucifixation of an entire army, the horrors of the Snake and Kallors genocide goes unremarked. Don't forget the second-hand description of what happens when the Tiste Edur genocide world tour lands on Sepik
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Dec 13, 2019 21:24
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Alhazred posted:But we don't really see her take on it. In Toll the Hounds it's mainly the male characters who talk about Stonny and even then they mostly talk about how she shouldn't be so sad and be a better mother. Yeah, as much as I like the glimpses we get of her PoV, narratively its entirely a driver for everybody else's plots, which is kinda distasteful
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Dec 13, 2019 21:53
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Guyver posted:Not really? What is the acceptable level of rape? Also I'm assuming almost everyone who thinks the level of rape is OK is a dude.
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Dec 13, 2019 22:44
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Think really hard about which of Alhazred's two posts I was replying to.
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Dec 13, 2019 23:04
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Welp I started reading this series in middle school and must have last read it when I was in high school and I do not remember all this rape. It was my favorite series back then too  guess I better hide my beat up copy of gardens of the moon I gifted my girlfriend
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Dec 16, 2019 05:38
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Gee. I wouldn't hide Malazan at all, I still recommend it to every single person I can.
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Dec 16, 2019 17:58
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turboraton posted:Gee. I wouldn't hide Malazan at all, I still recommend it to every single person I can. But maybe also give them a heads up about the content.
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Dec 16, 2019 18:32
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Alhazred posted:But maybe also give them a heads up about the content. I kinda want to have a really long talk about this, I kinda want to just let you know that around here in the outskirts of Lima, Peru, what you guys keep doing over and over sounds tremendously condescending and borders the offensive to the people I would suggest reading Malazan.
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Dec 16, 2019 18:40
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Have the long talk. It's not as if this is fast-moving thread.
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Dec 17, 2019 00:46
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i can dig it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250251966/ref=cm_sw_r_oth_api_i_qo.aEb28YR44S_nodl
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Dec 26, 2019 16:34
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Dalmuti posted:i can dig it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250251966/ref=cm_sw_r_oth_api_i_qo.aEb28YR44S_nodl I'm excited, but the way ICE has been I'm expecting this to be some dumb prequel, focus on a different jhistal, or only have a cameo appearance from the absolute fucker himself
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Dec 26, 2019 21:05
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Nah, that's gotta be Malick. ICE already wrote him in his Crimson Guard books. Not sure if I'd enjoy a whole book of him backstabbing his way to the throne, though.
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Dec 27, 2019 01:14
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Finally finished Midnight Tides. The first 250-350 pages were nothing to write home about, but once the stage was finally set it was a fun read the remaining 2/3rds+ of the book all the way to the end. And the epilogue that I wish had an "X days later..." tag. The downside is that I now want more roommate sitcom situations between Tehol and Bugg. Read like 5 pages of The Bonehunters, but I'm debating taking a breather before I read 1100 more pages of the same author. Same situation is why there was about a three month break around page 300 of MT.
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Dec 31, 2019 03:02
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Good news! You will get plenty more Tehol and Bugg!
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Dec 31, 2019 16:37
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anilEhilated posted:Nah, that's gotta be Malick. ICE already wrote him in his Crimson Guard books. Oh I was making a very funny joke about how unfocused ICE is. RotCG is barely about the crimson guard, path to ascendancy stops years before ascendancy, night of knives is about some dudes loving around while the interesting plot happens in the next room etc etc. You can tell it was funny, because I had to explain how funny it was.
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Jan 2, 2020 00:22
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In my defense, ICE is so unfocused it is hard to notice the lack of focus.
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Jan 2, 2020 01:12
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I'm about halfway through the last book, and I'm at the scene where Paran gives the sappers a cache of munitions and asks them to make him proud and go hog wild against the turned Wolf army. The sappers just stare at him in silence and he gets all awkward, asking Boil to go see if they are alright. Boil reports that the corporal has wept a single joyful tear and the rest are stunned by happiness. . That is such an effective few pages showing how crazy they all are.
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Jan 4, 2020 05:24
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i finished and reread the main erikson books many times. the other writer in the malazan world are his books worth reading and should i read any of the prequel poo poo by erikson?
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Jan 7, 2020 03:18
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General take on it is the ICE books range from poor (his first novella) to decent. I like them and I think people overreact to them not being as good as Erikson's stuff. If you want more malazan they fit the bill. The two Erikson prequels are like the first two books of toll the hounds ramped up to 11, so if that was your cup of tea you'll like them. I'm a huge malazan fan and simply couldn't finish them. Meanwhile he's making good progress on the next novel looks like: 
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Jan 7, 2020 23:37
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I'll chime in with a contrary opinion: the Kharkanas prequels are fantastic and you should definitely read them, if only to see just how many of the idea you get about the various Tiste and their mythologies from the base series is outright wrong. They're not very action-y, but new reveals keep coming at a steady enough pace. Honestly their biggest downside is that we're not getting the third book anytime soon.
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Jan 8, 2020 00:11
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I didn't find any of ICE's books unreadably bad. Night of Knives isn't particularly good and turns a thrilling, momentous event into a bit of a shrug. Temper is a decent protagonist, though. The Crimson Guard books (Return of the Crimson Guard, Stonewielder, Blood & Bone, Assail) are an improvement, flesh out the world a bit more (you see Jacuruku, Korel and Assail) and fill in a few bits and pieces Erikson hinted at along the way. If you can reach the end of Assail without wanting the actual Crimson Guard characters to all fall into a volcano and die, you'd be doing better than me, though. Orb Sceptre Throne finishes off the Darujhistan storylines that Erikson teased (mostly in Toll The Hounds) but it's a bit  I liked the Path to Ascendancy books a lot more, although the third one felt rushed and not as strong as the others. Yeah, the Kharkanas books were a bit different. I liked the first one and felt that the second one took forever to actually get going before having a really strong finish. To comment on anilEhilated's post, you do find out a lot about the Tiste histories, but the whole thing is being told by a self-confessed unreliable narrator (he says so in the prologue), so how much of what we learn in the MBotF series is right/wrong is deliberately left vague. Because Erikson thinks the story is more important than continuity
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Jan 8, 2020 00:36
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A few chapters into The Crippled God and have a question. Maybe I'm missing something. Why/how is the gate to Akhrast Korvalain sealed? Or does this get explained later?
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Jan 8, 2020 02:23
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:A few chapters into The Crippled God and have a question. Maybe I'm missing something. I think you mean Starvald Demelain. And as always the answer to whether it gets explained is "kinda".
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Jan 8, 2020 22:13
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:A few chapters into The Crippled God and have a question. Maybe I'm missing something. Jaxyon posted:I think you mean Starvald Demelain. And as always the answer to whether it gets explained is "kinda". Both of you are right - OP is right with the spelling and you're right with "kinda." https://malazan.fandom.com/wiki/Ahkrast_Korvalain ulmont fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 23:07
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They both have the same answer right? "because those dudes are assholes, seriously, gently caress those guys"
Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 23:37
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I mean, some of what seem to be the main antagonists of the series denouement don't have access to their warren, and are going to use the heart of the onstensible series antagonist to break what's sealing it. It's all so big and thus it's frustrating to not know why/how this situation is what it is. I know that kind of confusion is the Malazan experience right there, but at this stage in the proceedings I wanted to check whether I'm supposed to know or not. Obviously I know why the FA are being pricks in general, or at least their justification of it. ulmont posted:Both of you are right - OP is right with the spelling and you're right with "kinda." https://malazan.fandom.com/wiki/Ahkrast_Korvalain Does the link spoil TCG?
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Jan 9, 2020 00:16
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Does the link spoil TCG? Mildly, but probably no more than you already know based on your OP. It's a pretty bare bones link.
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Jan 9, 2020 03:21
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Isn't it because Midnight Tide spoiler The k'chain che'malle performed that ritual that cut the elder races off from their sources of power?
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Jan 9, 2020 15:19
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I kind of hated this series at first, but somehow I'm at House of Chains and I love it and can't stop reading. It's kind of addictive how this series just throws tons and tons of dumb fantasy names at you with no explanation, leaving you in a state of deep, frustrating confusion, until it all starts coming together and making sense. Kind of funny how a lot of the big superpowered characters are blatantly RPG characters originally. It feels like the author had a bunch of superpowered, dumb as hell player characters from his campaign as a starting point but somehow manages to turn that into a compelling narrarative.
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Jan 10, 2020 11:36
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Geisladisk posted:I kind of hated this series at first, but somehow I'm at House of Chains and I love it and can't stop reading. That's literally how the whole thing was written, a GURPS campaign while on archaeological digs. Erikson's a gifted writer, even if he rambles. I've read a lot of bad fantasy and he does better with obvious mega-edgelord PC's like rake than most. Esslemont writes a bit more like the standard genre stuff and it's more noticeable.
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Jan 10, 2020 21:50
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I am on page 1000 of the Crippled God and yet there is somehow almost 200 pages left
Alhazred fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jan 21, 2020 |
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Jan 21, 2020 17:28
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Alhazred posted:I am on page 1000 of the Crippled God and yet there is somehow almost 200 pages left  Things I liked about Malazan Book of the Fallen: The Chain of Dogs. I also liked how characters in-universe realized how big of a deal this was and various myths of the event and Coltaine would began to spread. "Worm says gently caress you, Assail!"  The books are really diverse. People are queer, have different skin color, women are in the army and no one makes a big deal out of it. I don't know if it was intentional but it reminded me of the roman armies that were also really diverse. There's really no evil race, except the fuckerall. In the start it's easy to get the impression that the jaghuts or K'Chain Che'Malle are the designated bad guys but later on it turns out that any bad guys within that group are outliers. Erikson is really good at humanizing the otherwise faceless fantasy army. The best of parts of the books are usually soldiers sitting together having a chat. The Bone Hunters, I liked them better than the Bridge Burners. I just really liked the idea of a bunch of incompetent assholes thrown together. The idea of a bunch of different species arriving at a place at different times in history without anyone really knowing how or why was also neat. I also actually really liked Gardens of the Moon and it was that book that made me read all the others. The Paran family. It's a family that barely functions and yet it's the one that makes the biggest impact on malazan universe. Shurq Elalle, the only character to realize how hosed everything is and that the best option is to try and escape from the plot. Things I didn't liked about Malazan Book of the Fallen: Toll the Hounds. It's badly written, featuring dull characters and little of no consequence happens. Erikson is only able to make a few characters stand out. Smiles, Bottle, the dal honese sisters and Fid stands out, but it's almost impossible to tell the other characters apart. Theoretical characters like Balm, Cuttle and Deathsmell are different character but not in practice. The Shore could easily been excised, it is not connected to the main plot and seems only to be there to make the page count higher. I've said it before in this thread but Erikson is really bad at writing about rape. Like, really bad. The characterization of the Crippled God isn't really good. In some books he's mustache twirling bad guy, in others he's a messiah like character. Erikson's is clumsy at writing about political stuff, this is especially a problem with the books set in Lether were political intrigue is the main part of the plot. All the comedic characters like Kruppe, Tehol and Bugg does not work. Every section where they are the main character was a chore to get through.
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Jan 23, 2020 17:14
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Alhazred posted:All the comedic characters like Kruppe, Tehol and Bugg does not work. Every section where they are the main character was a chore to get through. I don’t think I can respect any of your opinions with a comment like this.
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Jan 23, 2020 18:19
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latinotwink1997 posted:I don’t think I can respect any of your opinions with a comment like this. Its like a reading a section written by someone who knows that things are funny but not why.
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Jan 23, 2020 19:02
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