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...the survival guide said this episode was good? What the hell
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Jan 12, 2020 06:36
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Rageaholic posted:...the survival guide said this episode was good? What the hell I was about to say the same thing lol. Maybe it's going by importance, due to the introduction of Annie?
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Jan 12, 2020 06:39
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Mike and Nadine checking in as Mr and Mrs "Inkman" from Montana is pretty interesting (Lynch, the writer, grew up in Montana). Maybe a nod that Lynch is not really in control right now? Once I saw the theory that all of S1 and S2 is Audrey's dream as she deals with her abuse, this episode actually has a lot of interesting threads. (you have to start with the premise that Laura/Leland was a deflection of Audrey's mind that couldn't fully accept that the abuse happened to her, and it was actually Ben/Audrey). You can imagine while Cooper is a projection there for Audrey to expose the abuse to her own conscious mind, Josie was there to protect her mind from the secret. Now that protector is gone, and now in this episode a) puzzle box that eventually explodes on Audrey in the bank , b) Ben over and over again saying how guilty he is introduced in having secrets, and c) similarities between Audrey and Annie (look at the skirt when she first appears and and the way Cooper stops in his tracks when ordering breakfast like he did when first meeting Audrey). Audrey is giving her own character a happy ending to be whisked away by a new handsome stranger, but it's definitely too good to be true since as soon as she does that a new manifestation of herself pops up where we can see more of her trauma. I don't know if I fully buy this but it's fun to re-watch with a new filter.
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Jan 13, 2020 18:28
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gently caress gently caress gently caress I had managed to successfully forget the Ben Horne/Mrs. Haywood storyline goddammit  I had also completely forgotten Eckhardt's Assistant was a thing.The Pine Weasel fashion show completely falling apart was fun comedy, and I love how Mike's terrible cover completely falls apart in seconds when he and Nadine are checking in.
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Jan 14, 2020 08:12
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I'm really having fun with the 'It's all in Audrey's mind' theory. A few more random things follow that I didn't realize at first. Save the Pine Weasel! Ben *IS* the pine weasel! He's a weasel who works out of a pine-paneled office. He's endangered because Audrey almost realized their secret. John Justice Wheeler is a projection/version of younger Ben Horne, maybe before he started molesting her and and getting sucked into dastardly deals like Ghostwood and One-eyed Jacks. Or maybe how Audrey wishes her dad was in the past, or possibly younger Audrey became attracted to her dad at this time. Much of his dialog with Ben makes sense in this light.
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Jan 15, 2020 00:34
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One of my co-workers messaged me to say he's looking into motorized drapes for his new house. I asked if they're silent 
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Jan 15, 2020 02:35
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BetterLekNextTime posted:Once I saw the theory that all of S1 and S2 is Audrey's dream as she deals with her abuse, this episode actually has a lot of interesting threads. That's a good way to approach it, imo. It's probably from that rambling 3-hour video you mentioned. The guy starts with that (and I didn't watch more because of all the  ).Just to get a little argumentative, though: The entire theory puts way too much stake into symbolic objects having a fixed meaning. Lynch works by intuition, not by mathematics. He slowly imbues objects with meaning over the course of the show. Just because something ends up meaning a certain thing doesn't mean it's always been that way. There are clearly parallels between Laura's and Audrey's stories. It's good to compare the two, and look for meaning there. However, turning them forcefully into the same story is simply reductive, and does neither one justice. Additionally, I think it's lame that the theory relegates all other characters to being stand-ins for Audrey's fractured psyche. What the heck does Pete stand for, then? Is that the part of Audrey that just wants to make lures all day, and likes to review Capablanca games? In any case, Mulholland Drive has nearly the same plot twist. Surely, it's not adequate to read all his work this way. Episode 23: Man, Billy Zane is just so punchable. He was pretty much born to play that douchebag in Titanic, wasn't he? "Eddie, we have to call a spade a spade. We're breaking up."  Analysis time: So, what happened to Josie? I quite frankly don't know why her soul is in a drawer pull.  The thing I do understand is that there has been a struggle for power between Josie and Catherine from the start. As they fight for control over the mill, they demonstrate their power through the clothes they wear. You can see them in the pilot with opposite coloured coats. In other episodes, Catherine and Josie wear similarly glamorous night gowns while trying to outsmart one another.    Particularly Catherine in her kimono looks a lot like some kind of Japanese warlord, imo. Either way, their attire is very regal. While Catherine is well suited for this type of seductive scheming, Josie seems incapable of it, in some way. Most of her lies are ineffective, and her big play against Catherine fails spectacularly. In some sense, Catherine maintains her power throughout by choosing her clothes wisely. Mr. Tojamura, you might argue, is simply her most effective demonstration of power and manipulative prowess, yet. It's so outrageous, even Ben Horne falls for it.  When Catherine returns, she strips Josie of the freedom to compete in the fashion game as a punishment. Josie is forced to play servant in a degrading maid's outfit. By this point, she has lost all agency. Maybe Pete bringing Catherine a set of mammy salt and pepper shakers (ep. 23) is supposed to symbolise this, as well. (Or it's just a racist prop, I dunno.)   At the start of the pilot, her applying make-up and humming was somehow creepy, menacing. In her final episode, it's become a sad final attempt at concealing her face before walking to her certain death. She is putting on a costume to play a part in Catherine's plan.  Episode 24: This episode reveals why the chess setup doesn't work out in the long run. There are all these wild claims about what Earle wants out of this game, and none of them make the game any more tense. We're basically going from an extremely rigged game: "He wants to take as many pieces as he can get away with" to a pretty standard one: "He wants to take valuable pieces". On a more positive note, I like the massive discrepancy between how defeatist Coop seems, and how much of a clown the real Earle is. He says: "If Windom wanted to kill me, I'd already be dead." I don't think so, tbh. It seems more like his fear of Earle is making him overestimate the guy in a major way. El Jeffe posted:I was about to say the same thing lol. Maybe it's going by importance, due to the introduction of Annie? Yeah, I'm having a hard time believing that any episode that has Denise in a major role would be inferior to an episode with John Justice Wheeler. Actually, I never looked at that guide all that closely. It's kind of fixating on the James side story, which is pretty much relegated to a tiny fraction of the show. In general, the whole Miss Twin Peaks plot is way worse for the show because it infects every plot line from here on out. Imo, the worst episodes are still coming. I bet it's the one with the plane. Rageaholic, could I get a screenshot of - The salt shakers in episode 23. (I hope I was imagining that poo poo.) - Josie clasping the gun to her chest before her death (I'm trying to get a good image of the dress) - Cooper hugging Truman and smiling, please? edit: Inserting images and commas. And More fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 15, 2020 21:23
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And More posted:There are clearly parallels between Laura's and Audrey's stories. It's good to compare the two, and look for meaning there. However, turning them forcefully into the same story is simply reductive, and does neither one justice. Fan theories can be fun to think about, but I don't really put any stock in them. And this one is certainly no different, but point of fact... Mulholland Drive did reportedly begin as an Audrey spin-off show. So maybe the similarity you note can't be dismissed quite as easily as otherwise possible.
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Jan 16, 2020 00:26
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Earle suffers from a depressingly common issue in a lot of TV shows where other characters TELL us that <x> is some super-genius criminal mastermind and assume that's enough for the viewer, while <x> never actually demonstrates anything to justify their reputation.
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Jan 16, 2020 02:45
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And More posted:Rageaholic, could I get a screenshot of   What salt shakers though? I see some at the diner but there's nothing out of the ordinary about them.
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Jan 16, 2020 03:43
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they should've shown josie just chilling inside a random doorknob in season 3
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Jan 16, 2020 04:16
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Rageaholic posted:
At the beginning of the episode where Catherine and Andrew are sitting at the table. I know exactly what he means and he is not imagining things.
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Jan 16, 2020 08:28
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Origami Dali posted:they should've shown josie just chilling inside a random doorknob in season 3 Ben Horne hears a humming sound that is very reminiscent of her singing.
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Jan 16, 2020 09:22
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NObodyNOWHERE posted:Fan theories can be fun to think about, but I don't really put any stock in them. And this one is certainly no different, but point of fact... Mulholland Drive did reportedly begin as an Audrey spin-off show. So maybe the similarity you note can't be dismissed quite as easily as otherwise possible. Granted, I've heard that as well. Still, a spin-off probably would have turned Audrey into the protagonist instead of just one of like 20 important characters. My Pete-argument stands, imo. Jerusalem posted:Earle suffers from a depressingly common issue in a lot of TV shows where other characters TELL us that <x> is some super-genius criminal mastermind and assume that's enough for the viewer, while <x> never actually demonstrates anything to justify their reputation. It's way more absurd here than in any other show I've seen, though. You have Cooper with his "cold as a diamond" stuff and then we cut to Earle prancing about the forest like a deranged wood elf. You can easily call it imcompetence on the part of the writers, but to me it seems kind of intentional. AstroWhale posted:At the beginning of the episode where Catherine and Andrew are sitting at the table. Thank you. That was messing with my mind. I have taken a crappy photo with my loving phone, now:  You can't beat that.
And More fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 09:24
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Maarak posted:Ben Horne hears a humming sound that is very reminiscent of her singing. There's a funny throw-away line from Ben in one of the early S2 episodes about how you can move furniture around and get resonant energies. And More posted:Granted, I've heard that as well. Still, a spin-off probably would have turned Audrey into the protagonist instead of just one of like 20 important characters. My Pete-argument stands, imo. Just to play devil's advocate to your devil's advocate, I don't think every character and scene would have to exactly mirror some real world happening or memory. I haven't seen all of Lynch's movies but my impression is that he sees these surreal spaces as more richly populated than real life. But if I had to guess specifically about Pete, probably her dog (Pete the Poodle) But I 100% agree with your earlier comment. Even if this is a mostly true theory, it doesn't obviate other theories or interpretations that focus on other characters' psyches, the plot driven interpretations, commentary on media or American life, audience expectations, etc. Not everything is symbolism, but that doesn't mean we will know what is or isn't until we look. And More posted:It's way more absurd here than in any other show I've seen, though. You have Cooper with his "cold as a diamond" stuff and then we cut to Earle prancing about the forest like a deranged wood elf. You can easily call it imcompetence on the part of the writers, but to me it seems kind of intentional. Running with the "it's Audrey's, or somebody's dream" theory, let's imagine Cooper is a doctor or therapist helping Audrey (or Laura, or Ronette, or whoever) come to terms with her past abuse. Let's also imagine this doctor is insane after losing his wife. Cooper is the "hold it together" public persona of this doctor, but more and more Audrey starts to notice the crazy (on haloperidol?) persona of Windom Earl appearing. Or if this is a step too far, imagine that Cooper is a projection of the doctor who initially wants Audrey to find the truth, but then realizes at some point that the truth is so devastating that he needs to be very careful in how to protect Audrey. Possibly she was about to learn or did learn at the big reveal but then tried to commit suicide. Windom could be a projection of the doctor who seems evil to her because he's specifically targeting the horrible memories of sexual trauma. The owl cave scenes are important here. Annie (as Audrey) recognizes something that starts to trigger a memory of sexual abuse when she was younger. Cooper goes there but is too concerned to delve deeper, preferring to try to tread carefully. He is excited for the clue and asks us to trust him. Windom is more willing to exploit this trauma to get answers. Note how often Windom's clothing mirrors Cooper's.
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Jan 16, 2020 19:42
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BetterLekNextTime posted:Note how often Windom's clothing mirrors Cooper's.  You've actually somehow convinced me that I can't dismiss this theory out of hand. I'll try to take note of whether their clothes match from now on. (I don't actually think so? Cooper's pajamas look way better than Earle's, in any case)
And More fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 16, 2020 |
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Jan 16, 2020 23:37
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And More posted:Thank you. That was messing with my mind. I have taken a crappy photo with my loving phone, now: Embarrassingly enough, my mom owns a pair exactly like this. I think they were a hand me down from my grandma, but still, yikes.
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Jan 16, 2020 23:39
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Rageaholic posted:Oh, THESE I guess that proves it's period-accurate.  Anyway, thank you! Now the Josie post is complete. And, from now on, whenever I feel down, I can always look at Cooper giving the greatest hug.
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Jan 16, 2020 23:49
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Twin Peaks seasons 1-2 isn’t all a dream Audrey is having, hth
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Jan 16, 2020 23:59
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I totally understand why it's fun to talk about, but Twin Peaks all having a rational explanation would be a complete bummer.
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Jan 17, 2020 00:04
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Working my way through season 2. It's great how Cooper says he saw the killer in his psychic dream, and they're only mildly skeptical, like "it could've happened, but I doubt it happened"
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Jan 17, 2020 00:05
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antidote posted:I totally understand why it's fun to talk about, but Twin Peaks all having a rational explanation would be a complete bummer. Yeah when it goes from “lol this is a fun theory to be silly about” and goes into “hmmm I might actually have to start taking this seriously” it’s like....you have no understanding of Lynch as a creator
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Jan 17, 2020 00:06
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SardonicTyrant posted:Working my way through season 2. It's great how Cooper says he saw the killer in his psychic dream, and they're only mildly skeptical, like "it could've happened, but I doubt it happened" It's one of my absolute favorite things about the show, the way Truman and the others are just immediately onboard (or at least willing to listen) to any out there concept Cooper raises. Everybody leaning forward attentively when Cooper says he wants to talk about Tibet 
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Jan 17, 2020 00:19
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Escobarbarian posted:Yeah when it goes from “lol this is a fun theory to be silly about” and goes into “hmmm I might actually have to start taking this seriously” it’s like....you have no understanding of Lynch as a creator I don't think anyone's taking it that seriously. Consider it an exploration of symbols of abuse and treatment if you find the word "theory" too specific to get behind. And More posted:
I've watched this Saturday's already, so some of these might be here, but they both wear dark flannel with a gray puffer vest, and then we see Coop with his suit and Windom is back in the hut wearing an FBI pin. You could also write this off as him mocking Coop or any number of things, but I'll be watching for it more in the later episodes. Jerusalem posted:It's one of my absolute favorite things about the show, the way Truman and the others are just immediately onboard (or at least willing to listen) to any out there concept Cooper raises. Reading a book on Tibet in the Double-R just in one of the past couple of episodes I think!
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Jan 17, 2020 00:58
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BetterLekNextTime posted:I don't think anyone's taking it that seriously. Consider it an exploration of symbols of abuse and treatment if you find the word "theory" too specific to get behind. Yeah, there is no need to be  right on the internet about anything in this thread. Also, Escobarbarian, claiming authorial intent is cheating, and I'll play my Death-of-the-Author card, if you do. edit: Dang, did the death of the author also kill the thread? And More fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 01:04
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S2E18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYpQ1I4Cj9o
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Jan 19, 2020 04:47
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We're doing 2 episodes tonight, 2 next week and then the season 2 finale the week after!
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Jan 19, 2020 04:48
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Wow, I totally forgot about Thomas Eckhardt's assistant trying to murder Harry  e: Sexual jealousy 
Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jan 19, 2020 |
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Jan 19, 2020 05:10
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Rageaholic posted:Wow, I totally forgot about Thomas Eckhardt's assistant trying to murder Harry Same, totally blanked on that one.
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Jan 19, 2020 05:13
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Hell yeah, Gordon!
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Jan 19, 2020 05:15
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MASSIVE, MASSIVE QUANTITIES
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Jan 19, 2020 05:26
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Jan 19, 2020 05:29
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S2E19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVI712f93RQ 
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Jan 19, 2020 05:47
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First mention of the Black Lodge? I know the White Lodge has been mentioned before.
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Jan 19, 2020 05:59
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A FRONT THREE QUARTERS VIEW OF TWO ADULTS SHARING A TENDER MOMENT
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Jan 19, 2020 06:26
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Hahahaha, I love Gordon so much
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Jan 19, 2020 06:33
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The scene with Ben and Jack talking about "tell the hardest truth first" is pretty interesting if you view Jack = Young Ben or a literal manifestation of Ben's conscience.
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Jan 19, 2020 07:49
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Rageaholic posted:Wow, I totally forgot about Thomas Eckhardt's assistant trying to murder Harry Harry:  That whole subplot is so goddamn weird, comes out of nowhere and doesn't seem to achieve anything of any note. On the flip side, Gordon Cole showing up and screaming his intentions to flirt with Shelly for everybody to hear is beautiful.
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Jan 19, 2020 09:41
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"Sometimes I get angry and do things I'm not proud of." I can relate.  Back in the day, I really liked the Annie-Cooper romance. They both have a similar innocence to them. This time around, it feels just too simple and bland, somehow. There is no friction or anything. It's a real shame that they found a way to mostly write Bobby out of this show. In most scenes, he's additionally a real scumbag. They have basically undone his character development. His reaction to Mike's whispered explanation and the Cole/Shelly kissing scene kind of make up for it, though. Some random observations: - James' letter, is pretty funny. He sounds extremely mopey, yet he claims to be having the time of his life.  - Having now paid attention to Coop's and Earle's clothes: They are not even remotely similar. It's just that sometimes they both wear flannel, now (and it's a sin). I'm not convinced. - Oh, how I loathe that moment between Wheeler and Cooper in front of the fireplace. Could I get a screenshot of: - a cloaked figure in on top of the owl cave map (Ep. 26, 15 minutes in) - a cloaked figure in on top of the moon (Ep. 26, before the last scene), please?
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Jan 19, 2020 14:27
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I want to know where that meme of "rabid weasels that attach themselves to your face" came from and was apparently everywhere in the 90s
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Jan 19, 2020 16:09
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