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Majorian posted:There's an awful lot of projection going on in this post. Most of this isn't in the text or even in the subtext my dude. Name anything in my post that isn’t in the text.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:46
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zer0spunk posted:there's a lot of people who actually really like them Haha, surely not
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Jan 22, 2020 23:46
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So, wait. People other than insufferable click bait bloggers being paid by Disney actually liked the prequels? lol
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Jan 22, 2020 23:47
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Zoran posted:Name anything in my post that isn’t in the text. Qui-Gon thinks the Neimoidians won’t stand up to him because of his racial prejudices <-not in the text Jar Jar is dismissed as useless <-in the text, but that's because even the other Gungans see him as an annoying fuckup Qui-Gon thinks he can just cheat the seedy junk dealer with mind control <-mind control tends to work for the Jedi; I'm not sure what superficialities have to do with anything.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:48
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Peachfart posted:So, wait. People other than insufferable click bait bloggers being paid by Disney actually liked the prequels? lol No, just Extremely Online people like to say they do so they can argue about star wars, which is the thing they're actually doing for fun. No one actually watches them.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:48
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The end of TPM "Yippee! I'm a seven year old! Whoops, I accidentally flew my fighter into the mothership base and then banged on buttons like a monkey till it blew up! Artoo get us outta here!" I loving love it when the intense final battle, culmination of a movie, ends in children's slapstick while dozens of palace guards and gungan warriors in contemporaneous scenes are fighting to the death.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:49
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Shrecknet posted:The end of TPM Or when Robo Snidely Whiplash is hilariously wheezing right before the scene cuts to Anakin murdering a bunch of kids.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:50
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Zoran posted:Name anything in my post that isn’t in the text. Asking some people to understand basic text might be a bridge too far, they need obi wan or yoda to turn to the camera and explicitly explain that that stuff was intentional or it's "fanwanking"
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Jan 22, 2020 23:50
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Peachfart posted:So, wait. People other than insufferable click bait bloggers being paid by Disney actually liked the prequels? lol some of it is for sure stockholm ..."well it's better then nothing?"..but was it...was it really? i do defend the pod race n64 game in every prequel chat however. that game was the poo poo, fight me
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Jan 22, 2020 23:50
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Majorian posted:Qui-Gon thinks the Neimoidians won’t stand up to him because of his racial prejudices <-not in the text They call the Nemodians cowardly don't they?
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Jan 22, 2020 23:50
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CainFortea posted:No, just Extremely Online people like to say they do so they can argue about star wars, which is the thing they're actually doing for fun. No one actually watches them. I’m also arguing about Star Wars for fun
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Jan 22, 2020 23:51
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Majorian posted:Qui-Gon thinks the Neimoidians won’t stand up to him because of his racial prejudices <-not in the text “These Federation types are cowards. The negotiations will be short.” Mind control works on the weak-minded, so Qui-Gon is assuming that this slovenly-looking junk trader is easy to boss around. It’s a class prejudice.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:52
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Saint Drogo posted:that scene not looking like rear end would have pushed them a hell of a lot further. there's just nothing admirable about making your film look lovely, whether it's out of bravery (lmao) or laziness (yes). "Look, I know you think Bergman made the right choice to have this sequence dark and gloomy and misty, but the BRAVER choice would have been to have it perfectly lit, showing the warts and all!"
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Jan 22, 2020 23:52
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I have a shocking possibility! Maybe... Just possibly... All Star Wars, excepting the original, is loving terrible poo poo.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:52
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McCloud posted:Asking some people to understand basic text might be a bridge too far, they need obi wan or yoda to turn to the camera and explicitly explain that that stuff was intentional or it's "fanwanking" Yeah imagine if, In the movie, anakin said something like “from my perspective the Jedi are evil” just laying out the completely obvious dynamic in tortured exposition . What a blunder that’d be
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Jan 22, 2020 23:53
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Zoran posted:“These Federation types are cowards. The negotiations will be short.” Sounds like more of an assessment of a predatory institution and less of an example of racial prejudice. quote:Mind control works on the weak-minded, so Qui-Gon is assuming that this slovenly-looking junk trader is easy to boss around. It’s a class prejudice. No projection going on here, no sir.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:54
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The Federation is comprised solely of Nemodians.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:54
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McCloud posted:Asking some people to understand basic text might be a bridge too far, they need obi wan or yoda to turn to the camera and explicitly explain that that stuff was intentional or it's "fanwanking" I'm so glad the prequels didn't feel the need to explain the Force through some sort of microscopic biological oddity that can be quantified. Lucas would never over-explain something that should be left to the viewer's imagination.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:55
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i'd rather watch any of the prequels then fuckin' solo ever again hoo boy what a pile of poo poo that one was "oh you're alone? we'll call you lone-lee..wait no gently caress, i can do this better. solo. yeah, nailed it bro" every scene: anyone - "hey did you want the lighting dimmers set to can't see a loving thing or?" all of space interior design - "yes."
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Jan 22, 2020 23:56
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Majorian posted:No projection going on here, no sir. What do you think “projection” is? Drawing obvious inferences isn’t “projection.” Projection is when you attribute your own thoughts and impulses to someone else and pretend that you don’t experience them yourself.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:56
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Roth posted:The Federation is comprised solely of Nemodians. That doesn't seem to actually be the case. Zoran posted:What do you think “projection” is? Drawing obvious inferences isn’t “projection.” Projection is when you attribute your own thoughts and impulses to someone else and pretend that you don’t experience them yourself. Reading something between the lines that isn't actually there because you really want it to be there. If that doesn't meet your definition of "projection," fine, call it what you want. But it's what you're doing here. You really want there to be more meaning behind some of the baffling decisions George made in these movies, but it's not actually there. George is just a lovely director.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:57
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In the movie they are all Neimoidians.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:58
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zoux posted:Yeah imagine if, In the movie, anakin said something like “from my perspective the Jedi are evil” just laying out the completely obvious dynamic in tortured exposition . What a blunder that’d be I mean, Yoda starting a war to save the Jedi and the republic and unwittingly playing into the hands of sheev and him being all wars do not make one great is entirely consistent but it seems people missed that so maybe tortured exposition would help hammer the point home in those people.
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Jan 22, 2020 23:59
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McCloud posted:I mean, Yoda starting a war to save the Jedi and the republic and unwittingly playing into the hands of sheev and him being all wars do not make one great is entirely consistent but it seems people missed that so maybe tortured exposition would help hammer the point home It's almost as if...the script could have been considerably better. Maybe even "not terrible," if a competent writer had written it.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:00
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McCloud posted:I mean, Yoda starting a war to save the Jedi and the republic and unwittingly playing into the hands of sheev and him being all wars do not make one great is entirely consistent but it seems people missed that so maybe tortured exposition would help hammer the point home That’s not why he thought they were evil
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Jan 23, 2020 00:00
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Majorian posted:Reading something between the lines that isn't actually there because you really want it to be there. If that doesn't meet your definition of "projection," fine, call it what you want. But it's what you're doing here. You say this in the same post you link to some wookiepedia poo poo that didn’t happen in the film
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Jan 23, 2020 00:03
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zoux posted:I’m also arguing about Star Wars for fun That's fine. I didn't judge the desire to do so, just pointing out the prequel defenders are using it as a false platform to do so. They enjoy watching the good star wars movies just like we do.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:03
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Learn anything in the preceding 400 years, I did not. Award council seats for collecting cereal boxes, the Jedi would.Peachfart posted:I have a shocking possibility! Maybe... Just possibly... All Star Wars, excepting the original, is loving terrible poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:04
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Guy A. Person posted:You say this in the same post you link to some wookiepedia poo poo that didn’t happen in the film I misremembered that there were non-Neimoidian trade federation dudes in the movie. I haven't seen the film in years, but I'll take everyone's word for it.  Doesn't really change my point that there's not much in the text or subtext that there's a racial angle behind Qui-Gon's assessment of them. Particularly when the Neimoidians themselves are super-racist stereotypes. I don't see much reason to give George the benefit of the doubt on racial commentary. Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 00:05
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Majorian posted:Doesn't really change my point that there's not much in the text or subtext that there's a racial angle behind Qui-Gon's assessment of them. Particularly when the Neimoidians themselves are super-racist stereotypes. I don't see much reason to give George the benefit of the doubt on racial commentary. Well, the plot of the movie is that the Naboo run away from their home world and go to the Republic capital to get their vaunted liberal democratic institutions to save them, but in the end it's the Gungans who share their world who come to their aid. Amidala's people overlooked this opportunity because they thought Gungans were stupid savages—“they think they brains so big!” Once the Queen takes the time to have an honest conversation with Jar Jar as more-or-less equals, she figures this out pretty quick, and returns home to put herself at Boss Nass's mercy. So it turns out that Padmé didn’t have to go and put Palpatine in power, but she did because she and her people were racist, and rejecting that racism is what allows her to win. I think it's a fine commentary on the subject, reinforced by the motif I’ve already mentioned where the heroes make all kinds of other mistakes because they misjudge people out of prejudice.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:16
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Zoran posted:“they think they brains so big!” You've highlighted the problem with your whole argument here.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:20
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Majorian posted:You've highlighted the problem with your whole argument here. Are you asserting that it’s racist to include characters who speak English improperly
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Jan 23, 2020 00:21
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Zoran posted:Are you asserting that it’s racist to include characters who speak English improperly I'm asserting that it's racist to fill your movie with really blatant racial stereotypes.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:23
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They released the John Williams score a week ahead of TPM and one of the tracks is titled "the death of Quo-Gonn" or something, spoiling it
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Jan 23, 2020 00:25
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Majorian posted:I'm asserting that it's racist to fill your movie with really blatant racial stereotypes. I don’t concede the premise that TPM is filled with racial stereotypes, but I do want to ask: suppose that you wanted to make a movie where the main characters underestimate both their enemies and their possible allies because they look and act different from themselves. Would this theme be communicated better if the foreigner characters carried zero real-world cultural signifiers of any kind?
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Jan 23, 2020 00:27
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Zoran posted:I don’t concede the premise that TPM is filled with racial stereotypes, but I do want to ask: suppose that you wanted to make a movie where the main characters underestimate both their enemies and their possible allies because they look and act different from themselves. Would this theme be communicated better if the foreigner characters carried zero real-world cultural signifiers of any kind? Of course not, but there's a lot of ground between characters having "zero real-world cultural signifiers" and characters being "basically dragged right out of a minstrel show/antisemitic propaganda/anti-East Asian immigration cartoons." TPM manages to score three out of three there. e: I mean, the thrust of your argument involves a lot of what TPM could have been. It could have been an excellent commentary on racism and underestimating people based on outward appearances. But that would have required someone else writing and directing it. George Lucas is not the person to do that. Majorian fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Jan 23, 2020 |
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Jan 23, 2020 00:30
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I don't remember where I read it, but I recall reading that the Nemodians are supposed to be more like Transylvanian and hearken to Count Dracula and that made more sense to me than them being asian.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:37
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Your Non-Racist Villains: Brought to you by some english guy's impersonation of a Thai man saying his lines.
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Jan 23, 2020 00:47
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Zoran posted:Well, the plot of the movie is that the Naboo run away from their home world and go to the Republic capital to get their vaunted liberal democratic institutions to save them, but in the end it's the Gungans who share their world who come to their aid. Amidala's people overlooked this opportunity because they thought Gungans were stupid savages—“they think they brains so big!” Once the Queen takes the time to have an honest conversation with Jar Jar as more-or-less equals, she figures this out pretty quick, and returns home to put herself at Boss Nass's mercy. A beautiful post about a beautiful movie
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Jan 23, 2020 00:51
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Part of making a commentary on any hot button issue like modern day racial politics is the danger that you are exposing yourself to a lot of harsh criticism from basically all sides when you do so. That said I believe that for the most part so long as film makers and commentators do their part to be well informed and considerate when presenting themselves it will almost always show through and they'll get more receptive commentary back than they will negative backlash. The phantom menace meanwhile made sure to stick a Yarmulke on the shifty desert trader because george lucas didn't give a gently caress about any of that. edit- clarified a bit
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Jan 23, 2020 00:51
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