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Shodai? This poll is closed. |
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21 | 75.00% |
| Nah |
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7 | 25.00% |
| Total: | 28 votes | ||
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A bit of Googling reveals that the fish is medai which sounds like omedetai which means something happy or auspicious. Its not just a sumo thing, apparently. Politicians do it, and thinking about it, there were a couple on ice in the lobby when we went to the bunraku in Osaka a few years ago.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:14
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Kenning posted:Can someone re-explain the joke with the fish? It's something like the name for that fish sounds like (or shares kanji with) the word for victory or something? [efb] https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20756516 posted:The fish was a tai, usually translated into English as "sea bream", or "red sea bream", or sometimes just as "snapper"... One reason given for this in Japan is the similarity between the word "tai", and the word for "joyous", "auspicious" or "deserving celebration" - o-medetai. Also, haven't seen this anywhere else yet, but at least one source claims Goeido's retiring: https://twitter.com/InsideSportJP/status/1221768800078422018 sivad fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jan 27, 2020 |
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Jan 27, 2020 14:15
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For those who might stumble into this thread late: the January Basho is now over. The Spring basho will be held in the EDION Arena in Osaka 3/8-22, and the banzuke will be released sometime in late February.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:20
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Goeido has not yet declared Intai, but there is very strong speculation that he may do just that. He has publicly announced that he will decide whether or not he will continue before the kyokai meets for their 1/29 initial banzuke meeting.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:24
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Very excited now to be on board with sumo, can't wait to see an entire basho and everything. Thanks for this thread!
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Jan 27, 2020 14:31
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https://mainichi.jp/articles/20200127/k00/00m/050/187000c It is official, Goeido has retired. With his Intai, we are down to just one Ozeki for March.
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Jan 27, 2020 14:39
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Hmm. My schadenfreude turned bittersweet. I don’t like the guy but I’m not happy about this. We’re decimating the upper ranks. Wondering what the halfway point of March will look like. Possibly no Yokozuna, one Ozeki.. Not that it really hurt this Basho. Was a lot of fun to watch.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:17
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I have a feeling that Goeido is going to end up being one of those guys who we don't really appreciate until he is really, truly gone. At least before when some fluky upstart had a good run, I could always look forward to future matches and think "ok, well lets see if you can beat Goeido". And now we don't have that anymore. The disappointing Ozeki will not be there to disappoint us in March.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:35
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I'm not ready for parity in sumo. For the two years I've been following there have always been the yokozuna who have been miles ahead of the ozeki who have been miles ahead of the sekiwake who have been generally better than the komusubi and then on. With the exception of Takakeisho, this last basho made no sense whatsoever. I'm excited to see where this leads.
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Jan 27, 2020 15:57
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Rigel posted:yeah, there's some kind of joke here that is not obvious to western sumo nerds. Something about how holding up a big red fish sounds similar when said aloud to being a sumo grand champion. It’s about politicians, but it explains the pun. The article is pretty funny because it has a picture of a politician with a little tiny fish and then Harumafuji with a giant one. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20756516 quote:
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Jan 27, 2020 16:01
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Martytoof posted:Hmm. My schadenfreude turned bittersweet. Yeah. I disliked Goeido, but it's too bad to lose him like this. I guess he didn't want to face a hometown crowd as a Sekiwake, especially if his injuries made ten wins unlikely. Since there are a bunch of new folks in the thread, I'll recommend one of my favorite YouTube sumo dudes, Chris Sumo (formerly Chris Gould). He's a long-time fan living in Japan, and he does videos with unusual subjects/approaches. His narration may come across as a bit stodgy, but I'm a fan of his content. Here's how he reported the Tokushoryu win. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYnAjQWI60M One of the things I was most curious about when I started following sumo was what (if any) meaning the rikshis' ring names had. Chris did a series of videos using the upper division guys at the time, and they're interesting history/culture lessons. Here's the first of those, which includes Goeido: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNxucbgRTKs
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Jan 27, 2020 17:42
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Yeah chris is pretty good, love the depth wish there was more
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Jan 27, 2020 18:42
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Hopefully Goeido thought this through, even if he can't reach his former glory he's good enough to collect a paycheck for a year or two as he moves down the ranks. If I were his coach I would ask him to hold off for a couple of weeks to get over the initial disappointment, and find an exit strategy before hanging it up.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:08
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Konstantin posted:Hopefully Goeido thought this through, even if he can't reach his former glory he's good enough to collect a paycheck for a year or two as he moves down the ranks. If I were his coach I would ask him to hold off for a couple of weeks to get over the initial disappointment, and find an exit strategy before hanging it up. Supposedly he said that he gave it all he had in January and he still got 10 losses. The next tournament is in his hometown so he didn't want the fans that have supported him his entire career to see him get thrown around like a ragdoll. It makes sense to me. He didn't go out on top exactly but he had a great career with a lot of high points. If your body says it's time then you quit while you're ahead and can still walk in a decade.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:32
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I'm kind of sad to see Goeido go, he was one of the first rikishi I actively cheered for when I first started following the sumo threads but man, it's so much better to call it a career than risk even worse injuries trying to be something your body clearly doesn't want you to be anymore.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:50
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Robviously posted:I'm kind of sad to see Goeido go, he was one of the first rikishi I actively cheered for when I first started following the sumo threads but man, it's so much better to call it a career than risk even worse injuries trying to be something your body clearly doesn't want you to be anymore. Yeah. I hope he has a long and healthy post-retirement.
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Jan 27, 2020 19:53
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I didn't realise how long Goeido had been an Ozeki, 33 bashos. That's a pretty decent chunk of time.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:16
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I guess he figured he hit his ceiling and decided to retire on his own terms before things got even harder.
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Jan 27, 2020 20:35
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bartolimu posted:One of the things I was most curious about when I started following sumo was what (if any) meaning the rikshis' ring names had. Chris did a series of videos using the upper division guys at the time, and they're interesting history/culture lessons. Here's the first of those, which includes Goeido: Meet Hoshiandesu & Hoshitango
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Jan 27, 2020 21:08
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sivad posted:[efb] Oh my god look at the babies.
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Jan 27, 2020 21:13
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bessantj posted:I didn't realise how long Goeido had been an Ozeki, 33 bashos. That's a pretty decent chunk of time. It's quite incredible - I think only two others in history has lasted longer. I will definitely miss the guy, he was an institution. I have no doubt I'll feel the same way for Tochinoshin when he eventually retires as well. It can't be long - one or two more bashos and that's it for him. His leg is purple as gently caress.
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Jan 27, 2020 23:57
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Yeah, 33 consecutive basho as an Ozeki is one hell of a run. If he continued this year, he was going to be written into the banzuke for March as a Sekiwake, and I guess he re-evaluated both his body and his legacy and decided he was done. He even got a championship during his run, a 15-0 zensho-yusho even. Hopefully he'll be with a good sumo stable and become a good coach for the next generation of rikishi. edit: Just learned another bit of trivia about our forgotten, unloved Ozeki. Before he was finally promoted, Goeido had also broken the Sekiwake record. He was Sekiwake for 14 consecutive basho before he was finally promoted to Ozeki. He was probably just hanging on the last couple years for Yokozuna, but he just didn't quite make it. Hakuho and Kakuryu blocked him. Rigel fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 00:48
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Isn’t there a pension benefit to retiring as ozeki?
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Jan 28, 2020 01:12
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https://twitter.com/sumofollower/status/1221926701241946112
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Jan 28, 2020 01:19
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It's good he's getting a kabu, he certainly deserves one. It'll be fun in a few years to see him and Araiso-oyakata (Kisenosato) and Nakamura-oyakata (Yoshikaze) etc. sitting ringside as shimpan.
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Jan 28, 2020 01:21
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Yeah, if Goeido acquires one of the kabu, then he's pretty much set for life.
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Jan 28, 2020 02:09
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Kenning posted:It's good he's getting a kabu, he certainly deserves one. It'll be fun in a few years to see him and Araiso-oyakata (Kisenosato) and Nakamura-oyakata (Yoshikaze) etc. sitting ringside as shimpan. Ok, here’s a noob question- what’s the deal with names? I get they take on a professional or stage name, and that can can change but then once they retire they have to change names, or after a certain time away? Any good reads on this?
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Jan 28, 2020 06:31
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The ring name they have technically belongs to the NSK, so they can't just use it after they retire (this came up a bit with Akebono's pro wrestling career, I think). In order to join the sumo association as an elder you need to own stock, or "toshiyori-kabu" (often just called "kabu"). There are 104 shares of kabu, and each one has an associated name. You're known by that name as long as you're an elder (usually until you die or reach mandatory retirement at 65). Extremely successful wrestlers, like Takanohana, are given the right to use their ring name as their elder name, but that basically just lets them become elders without having to own stock. There's all sorts of weird politics with kabu. For one, certain names have a certain legacy, so if an elder wants to split off and start their own stable they'll sometimes try to trade kabu to get a prestigious name. As a result, there have been multiple stables with the same name, and also some stables that have changed their name. Also, a wrestler only has a limited amount of time after retiring to acquire stock if they don't have it already (some wrestlers, like Endo and Okinoumi, have stock well in advance of retirement). If you have no kabu when you retire and none are vacant, you can borrow the stock of an active wrestler, but you'll have to find new stock to borrow once they retire, unless you're able to acquire your own. Stock used to be an actual financial asset that you owned, and it would be a big expense to buy. Currently the NSK determines how stock is distributed, but I'm unclear as to how they make such a determination. Like all things in sumo, this whole process is deeply weird and fun to get into the weeds researching. Kenning fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 06:45
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Just to add to that, basically everyone in the sumo world has a professional name - the gyoji, the yobidashi and the hairdressers. The gyoji will either be a Shikimori or Kimura (with the latter being more popular). The tate-gyoji (the highest ranked gyojis) are always named Kimura Shoonosuke and Shikimori Inosuke, though the former position is currently unfilled. The current Shikimori Inosuke should eventually be promoted to that name. Apparently, regular gyoji change names too, during their careers - some names have prestige or were names held by a mentor. Kimura Yodo (little guy with shaved head who has a million sets of robes) used to be Kimura Kinosuke until a couple years ago. The name changes here are even more opaque than the rikishi and oyakata. The tokoyama always have a name starting with "Toko-". I don't know if there's any system to the yobidashi names. The use of professional names seems to be common in traditional Japanese cultural stuff - kabuki actors do something similar with names being passed down through families.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:10
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Kenning posted:If you have no kabu when you retire and none are vacant, you can borrow the stock of an active wrestler, but you'll have to find new stock to borrow once they retire, unless you're able to acquire your own. Minor exception is that as an exOzeki, Goeido could use “Goeido” as a temporary elder name for 3 years before he has to find a permanent name but it sounds like he wants a permanent solution before he officially retires so it probably won’t come up. For the original question, John Gunning had an interesting article when I first started trying to get into the history. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2018/06/13/sumo/byzantine-rules-govern-sumos-name-shares/ In fact, all of his Inside Sumo https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/column/inside-sumo/ articles are pretty good as he is pretty much the only professional English sumo journalist.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:21
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I was really sad to see the end of Goeido. I was really happy for Tokushoryu, especially when NHK said his mentor died during the basho, which probably fed into how his good start turned into absolutely amazing sumo. I'm sad that Abi is probably hosed because his footwork was already so bad that the knee injury will probably being his rapid undoing. When I started watching sumo in the middle of the 2016 November basho, I never expected to get so attached to the rikishi.
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Jan 28, 2020 07:50
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Goeido will become the 14th Takekuma-Oyakata. 70th Yokozuna Harumafuji (at the time Komusubi "Ama") vs Goeido, 2007: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPO39qtj1Vk Brut fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 08:36
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Great! Glad to hear he lined up kabu so quickly.
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Jan 28, 2020 09:05
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Stoked for goeido. I had him in my line up and he did poo poo but I still liked him. Glad he got himself sorted.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:16
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How much longer do you guys think Kotoshogiku will stick around for? He's the oldest guy still fighting and his injuries looked much worse this time around.
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Jan 28, 2020 11:37
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Brut posted:How much longer do you guys think Kotoshogiku will stick around for? He's the oldest guy still fighting and his injuries looked much worse this time around. Until he's more tape than man. Seriously though, I think he'll hang on as long as he can stay in makuuchi.
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Jan 28, 2020 12:39
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Brut posted:Goeido will become the 14th Takekuma-Oyakata. Man I miss Harumafuji :[
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Jan 28, 2020 16:26
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Martytoof posted:Man I miss Harumafuji :[ That reminds me - someone showed off their Tochinoshin regards earlier, so here's my wife's Harumafuji one: https://imgur.com/a/yZDP6uY It's a dodgy photo, but it's currently living with our elderly Japanese neighbour until we have somewhere to hang it out of sunlight. Elissimpark fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 28, 2020 |
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Jan 28, 2020 16:36
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Nattosumo has given us a wonderful little gift: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsYVjCffiWs
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Jan 28, 2020 20:40
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drat, that Meisei bout. Imagine a guy a head shorter than you just dragging you down onto your face with a gunt wedgie. Painful!
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Jan 28, 2020 20:53
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