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indigi posted:someone really claimed not to know the difference between murder and killing in self defense. this is a wild thread Either way you kill someone. Does your motivation for doing something determine if it's good or bad?
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Feb 1, 2020 00:58
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2house2fly posted:Either way you kill someone. Does your motivation for doing something determine if it's good or bad? Yes.
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Feb 1, 2020 00:59
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2house2fly posted:Either way you kill someone. Does your motivation for doing something determine if it's good or bad? ... Murder is unlawful killing Killing is killing Unlawful contains the element of motivation as you say
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Feb 1, 2020 00:59
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2house2fly posted:Either way you kill someone. Does your motivation for doing something determine if it's good or bad? Lmao
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Feb 1, 2020 00:59
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I can't believe that we've reached the point where in a monumental effort to argue about the PT of star wars, someone is taking the stance that stopping someone from murdering you is morally identical to murdering a baby.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:00
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Why did the jedis take kid Annie into combat instead of like, leaving him with the gungan civilians or something
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Feb 1, 2020 01:01
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So like it's OK for Obi-Wan to slice Anakin up in a self-defense scenario but if he'd gone to Mustafar in a starfighter and shot Anakin from the safety of his cockpit, that wouldn't have been OK? Morality is wild
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Feb 1, 2020 01:01
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Who are we talking about !
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Feb 1, 2020 01:01
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Why did the jedis take kid Annie into combat instead of like, leaving him with the gungan civilians or something That’s like the central idea of episode IVI
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Feb 1, 2020 01:02
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CainFortea posted:I can't believe that we've reached the point where in a monumental effort to argue about the PT of star wars, someone is taking the stance that stopping someone from murdering you is morally identical to murdering a baby. Someone would have to be pretty crazy to argue that. A baby isn't realistically able to pose a threat to an adult
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Feb 1, 2020 01:03
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Who are we taking about !!!
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Feb 1, 2020 01:04
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2house2fly posted:So like it's OK for Obi-Wan to slice Anakin up in a self-defense scenario but if he'd gone to Mustafar in a starfighter and shot Anakin from the safety of his cockpit, that wouldn't have been OK? Morality is wild I'd definitely argue it would be less okay yes. Though frankly Anakin in that moment had just concluded a spree of intentional murder of people who were attempting to surrender during war plus he had stopped in to commit this murder spree right after committing a DIFFERENT murder spree where he specifically murdered innocent children who had no means of defending themselves so I'd still be willing to call this particular case a net good for society if obi wan just blew him away right there from space. In situations where we did not have magical access to the exact chain of events and words that had led anakin to commit the crime of killing surrendering opponents and children I'd still have probably wanted some kind of actual effort to capture him alive so that he could answer for his crimes before a system of justice tho.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:06
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the movie literally makes fun of the idea of the method of killing someone mattering by having obi-wan shoot grievous and make him explode, then toss away the gun saying 'so uncivilised' you killed him! the gun isn't the one who's uncivilised!
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Feb 1, 2020 01:14
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2house2fly posted:Someone would have to be pretty crazy to argue that. A baby isn't realistically able to pose a threat to an adult Your word, not mine.
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Feb 1, 2020 01:16
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reignofevil posted:When I think about how much I'd have to make up in my head to try and make some kind of chicken salad out of the chicken poo poo that was the prequel trilogy, to try and see it for some kind of moral lesson worth taking away or when I try to see it as having some kind of interesting character dynamic or a unique portrayal of a character archetype that I could apply the lessons of in my own life as a writer, I mostly just think about the sheer scope of the endeavor. It takes a LOT of mental work to pretend these movies aren't complete pieces of poo poo. I need to ignore problems like Yoda deciding to turn his back on the wookies entirely because it was no longer needed as a convenient setpiece action sequence and I have to pretend that midichlorians weren't just introduced as something George Lucas thought would be cool because of a prior idea he got shot down on known as 'The Whils' which were microscopic beings that controlled the force as well, and I have to pretend instead George was making a subtle point about how the entire jedi order was predicated on a fallacy regarding these microscopic beings and even though it never comes up in the subsequent two films depicting their actual downfall I have to infer that belief in these beings was somehow Yoda's great character failing. I have to basically talk up what was a nine minute appearance in a movie instead of focusing on the failings of the several hours we spend with the main characters of the films, and even then the best I can manage is that Yoda somehow learned that war is bad but did not learn that murder is wrong. You don't need to think about George Lucas at all. You don't need to think about filmmaking at all. Any time you want, you can just point at something and say "this is good" - and that's literally the only way anything gets to be good. This is an incredibly freeing thing to realise in any kind of creative endeavour, and once you're free of the baggage of worrying about what George Lucas - who you will likely never meet - was thinking on one afternoon in 1999, you can appraise the prequels with a direct eye.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:12
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josh04 posted:You don't need to think about George Lucas at all. You don't need to think about filmmaking at all. Any time you want, you can just point at something and say "this is good" - and that's literally the only way anything gets to be good. This is an incredibly freeing thing to realise in any kind of creative endeavour, and once you're free of the baggage of worrying about what George Lucas - who you will likely never meet - was thinking on one afternoon in 1999, you can appraise the prequels with a direct eye. No, no. We already covered this. Your expectations must match the film in question, THEN you can say it's good.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:13
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josh04 posted:You don't need to think about George Lucas at all. You don't need to think about filmmaking at all. Any time you want, you can just point at something and say "this is good" - and that's literally the only way anything gets to be good. This is an incredibly freeing thing to realise in any kind of creative endeavour, and once you're free of the baggage of worrying about what George Lucas - who you will likely never meet - was thinking on one afternoon in 1999, you can appraise the prequels with a direct eye. and in so doing, realize they suck a lot, and wonder why anyone went ahead with these takes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tLf1JO5bvE
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Feb 1, 2020 02:13
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Hayden Christensen posted cringe and lost subscribers.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:17
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Cease to Hope posted:and in so doing, realize they suck a lot, and wonder why anyone went ahead with these takes this, but you unironically have to actually wonder why and then follow those thoughts through to reasonable conclusions that match with your own experience with creating art both alone and collaboratively
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Feb 1, 2020 02:20
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josh04 posted:this, but you unironically have to actually wonder why and then follow those thoughts through to reasonable conclusions that match with your own experience with creating art both alone and collaboratively nah the people who like it just have bad taste, no real need to overthink it lol "you don't have to think about george lucas at all" is not compatible with "george lucas made this bad to make a point"
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Feb 1, 2020 02:21
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enjoy staying a bad writer, sucker! e: pfft well if you're gonna edit your post to look more reasonable i'm gonna come off as a huge jerk, that's not fair. you have to stop being anxious over george lucas so that you can take a dispassionate view of why he might have done things - him or any of the other hundreds of people who worked on these films
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Feb 1, 2020 02:22
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Is the Snyderdome thread this ridiculous? I'm going to have to start reading that one too.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:23
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eh. i'm just not interested in rewriting these bad movies to be kinda good!Roth posted:Is the Snyderdome thread this ridiculous? I'm going to have to start reading that one too. worse
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Feb 1, 2020 02:23
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Cease to Hope posted:eh. i'm just not interested in rewriting these bad movies to be kinda good! Coward
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Feb 1, 2020 02:24
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Roth posted:Coward 
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Feb 1, 2020 02:24
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Live by the prequel analysis, die by the prequel analysis
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Feb 1, 2020 02:25
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I have to think about george lucas every single day or else I'm afraid I'd have to think about why I'm 400 pounds and can't get into the bathtub anymore.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:26
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Roth posted:Is the Snyderdome thread this ridiculous? I'm going to have to start reading that one too. Snyderdome is a mod psyop to keep the number of these arguments down. That said, at one point in CineD there were four threads simultaneously having Snyder-arguments and it absolutely ruled.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:26
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Roth posted:Live by the prequel analysis, die by the prequel analysis you don't have to reimagine a movie to argue that it's bad. down that road lies film school jerkoff hell.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:27
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Overthinking. Thinking too much. Too much as determined by whom? If it's too much for the viewer themselves, they can easily stop on their own. But when talking about things that are memetically hated, it's far more common to see "you're overthinking" than "I'm overthinking." It's a community trying to police the opinions that can be held within it. Don't reevaluate the movie, just accept that the consensus is final. Forget details or invent new ones if you have to.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:29
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you might say it's a discourse that tries to make us all complicit
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Feb 1, 2020 02:31
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Bongo Bill posted:Overthinking. Thinking too much. Too much as determined by whom? eh, you don't have to reimagine a movie to argue that it's good, either. assuming you aren't somehow the toblerone triangular of prequel-liking, you just saw something different in those horrible movies. that isn't overthinking, it's just how you felt about it.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:35
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That fucker George Lucas reimagined Cloud City with windows.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:36
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now, if bongo bill was the toblerone triangular of prequel-liking, that would be a hell of a gimmick
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Feb 1, 2020 02:37
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Roth posted:Is the Snyderdome thread this ridiculous? I'm going to have to start reading that one too. It’s worth it just for Cease’s weird rear end synopsis on Yojimbo that was clearly gleaned off of pop culture osmosis.
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Feb 1, 2020 02:40
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josh04 posted:you might say it's a discourse that tries to make us all complicit Well I'm not complicit because I didn't start it
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Feb 1, 2020 02:47
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If I were to rewrite the prequels the only major change would be removing darth sidious from the films. You dont need palpatine manipulating both sides to tell the story and it makes the Jedi look more dogmatically crazed at the end and would help better inform a more complex sequel trilogy. If I were rewriting the sequels, conversely the only thing Id keep is Finn's background.
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Feb 1, 2020 03:10
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and BB-8
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Feb 1, 2020 03:25
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It took awhile but I’m glad everyone now agrees the prequels are good
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Feb 1, 2020 03:42
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Barudak posted:If I were to rewrite the prequels the only major change would be removing darth sidious from the films. You dont need palpatine manipulating both sides to tell the story and it makes the Jedi look more dogmatically crazed at the end and would help better inform a more complex sequel trilogy. But then you wouldn’t have the joy of Sheev! 
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Feb 1, 2020 03:43
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