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Skull Servant posted:He's got my vote! So, priorities: 1. No divorce. 2. Ireland needs an irish monarchy which is the same as the british monarchy, so that it can be a republic. But only for "irish loyalists" not irish nationalists. 3. This is communism.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:04
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So hyped for Elizabeth II to be the NazBol Queen of the United Vatican Republic of United Ireland.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:10
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Just in case it's not 100% clear loyalist means unionist means they want to stay in the UK. This guy thinks all they need to stop wanting to be part of the UK is a King or Queen for them.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:16
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Is there a large contingent of people in Ireland who want to rejoin the UK???
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Feb 4, 2020 15:21
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OwlFancier posted:Is there a large contingent of people in Ireland who want to rejoin the UK??? When we say Ireland we mean the Island so yeah. But if you mean the Republic there is a very small contingent who would probably be okay with that.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:23
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lemonadesweetheart posted:When we say Ireland we mean the Island so yeah. But if you mean the Republic there is a very small contingent who would probably be okay with that. So small that I have never heard someone express that view in 35 years living here. Though I guess they probably wouldn't have mentioned it to me when I was like 3 years old
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Feb 4, 2020 15:24
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Well I mean... he's standing for election in dublin south west so I don't... necessarily know that the people in NI are going to be voting for him..?
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Feb 4, 2020 15:25
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OwlFancier posted:Well I mean... he's standing for election in dublin south west so I don't... necessarily know that the people in NI are going to be voting for him..? I don't think he's really speaking to the loyalists in NI. He's just a mad aul' lad who doesn't want divorce and thinks he can solve the troubles by making someone a king.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:27
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Specifically by making queen elizabeth the queen of Ireland... Irishly.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:28
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OwlFancier posted:Specifically by making queen elizabeth the queen of Ireland... Irishly. Nah I think you can keep her, this would be a new one. Pretty sure she's already the queen of Northern Ireland already.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:29
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Nah I think you can keep her, this would be a new one. Pretty sure she's already the queen of Northern Ireland already.  He appears to want an Irish monarchy which is the same as the British monarchy, but only applies to some people... And not, apparently, to the landmass, which should be all under control of the republic?? Like this is crackers on some extremely impressive levels.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:32
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OwlFancier posted:
Oh I genuinely missed that part. This is even better than I thought.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:35
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I mean he might also be suggesting making Ruaidhrí King of Connacht's corpse the king of the UK as well, and in fact might already have succeeded given the state of prince phillip recently.
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Feb 4, 2020 15:38
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OwlFancier posted:
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Feb 4, 2020 15:43
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Seat projections from paddy power https://twitter.com/adriancummins/status/1224703208276316162?s=19 Seems to factor SFs unused surpluses cutting towards FF over transferring left which could be an issue tbh
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Feb 4, 2020 16:25
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Not sure about the bigger parties but Labour getting 6 seems a stretch. PbP only getting 1 seems really low. I don't think Soc Dems will get 5 either.
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Feb 4, 2020 16:48
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Not sure about the bigger parties but Labour getting 6 seems a stretch. PbP only getting 1 seems really low. I don't think Soc Dems will get 5 either. SD getting 5 seems optimistic, though my boy Gary Gannon is nailed on imo
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Feb 4, 2020 16:52
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Failed Imagineer posted:SD getting 5 seems optimistic, though my boy Gary Gannon is nailed on imo He seems like a good lad but I still don't really trust the purple ones to do much to push things further left.
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Feb 4, 2020 16:54
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kustomkarkommando posted:Seat projections from paddy power I do see SF getting in but I would love if they get more seats than FG.
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Feb 4, 2020 17:01
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I think the greens are going to have to prove they're more than just "green" and push their environmental stuff into proper left leaning political action in every way. They have decent ideas about housing, etc. but they have to show they're making an impact at the immediate national level as well as the global environmental level.
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Feb 4, 2020 17:04
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Mrenda posted:I think the greens are going to have to prove they're more than just "green" and push their environmental stuff into proper left leaning political action in every way. They have decent ideas about housing, etc. but they have to show they're making an impact at the immediate national level as well as the global environmental level. The UBI section in their manifesto, arguably a defining policy here considering no one else is pushing it, is like a single paragraph with no numbers and a vague commitment - read like a serious own goal
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Feb 4, 2020 17:06
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i know nothing of the irish greens, but green parties in most of europe are basically urban middle-class educated types with socially liberal attitudes and no fundamental aversion to state action but also no particular commitment to any vision of society - so the seize a lot of less-engaged left-leaning types as well as devouring any old social liberal parties. UBI is a policy which is easy to put out there and hard to properly justify, because it seems to fit well in theory but which needs some hard choices in practice about what to cut or how to restructure society so as to afford it. either of these choices means clarifying some assumptions about how society actually works which really need to be kept fuzzy in order to keep their voting coalition together
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Feb 4, 2020 17:13
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kustomkarkommando posted:The UBI section in their manifesto, arguably a defining policy here considering no one else is pushing it, is like a single paragraph with no numbers and a vague commitment - read like a serious own goal I haven't read the manifestos but something I've noticed about the literature sent to me is the Greens, Labour, Soc Dems all set out their intentions, their desires, their personal motivations. Sinn Fein are very "We will do X" and it's striking me as A.) naive or B.) untruthful. They're taking strong positions, probably as set out with their initial plan for seats, and haven't faced up to the fact that all their "wills" might not matter (and their thinking was it wouldn't matter because they would be in opposition.) Either they've smartly limited their seat possibilities in this election so they can continue building for the next few years and launch a majority party plan, or they've been caught unaware that they might have to act an election cycle before they intended to. e: V. Illych L. posted:i know nothing of the irish greens, but green parties in most of europe are basically urban middle-class educated types with socially liberal attitudes and no fundamental aversion to state action but also no particular commitment to any vision of society - so the seize a lot of less-engaged left-leaning types as well as devouring any old social liberal parties. UBI is a policy which is easy to put out there and hard to properly justify, because it seems to fit well in theory but which needs some hard choices in practice about what to cut or how to restructure society so as to afford it. either of these choices means clarifying some assumptions about how society actually works which really need to be kept fuzzy in order to keep their voting coalition together I think that's what they are here, but there's a big split between their young members and the "elders" with the younger members dragging them properly to the left. I'm not familiar with European national politics apart from the UK, but with the coalitions we end up in I feel we always end up with "centrists" (or populists/neo-libs) and the smaller parties need to be more forceful and targeted in what left policies they drag the senior coalition party to. Unfortunately the Irish population tends to blame the smaller coalition party for everything while forgetting what the party who actually dominated did. Mrenda fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 17:15
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lemonadesweetheart posted:He seems like a good lad but I still don't really trust the purple ones to do much to push things further left. By themselves? No. But then the same is true of all Irish candidates on the vague left. Luckily thanks to the miracle of STV I don't even have to give him number 1 to still strongly endorse him over a bunch of massive corporatist pricks
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Feb 4, 2020 17:16
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V. Illych L. posted:i know nothing of the irish greens, but green parties in most of europe are basically urban middle-class educated types with socially liberal attitudes and no fundamental aversion to state action but also no particular commitment to any vision of society - so the seize a lot of less-engaged left-leaning types as well as devouring any old social liberal parties. UBI is a policy which is easy to put out there and hard to properly justify, because it seems to fit well in theory but which needs some hard choices in practice about what to cut or how to restructure society so as to afford it. either of these choices means clarifying some assumptions about how society actually works which really need to be kept fuzzy in order to keep their voting coalition together Young greens tend to be more militant and further left. Older greens are just champagne socialists or centrist scum who couldn't give a poo poo if poor people die in the streets as long as they get a tax on plastic bags/water etc etc
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Feb 4, 2020 17:16
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Young greens tend to be more militant and further left. Older greens are just champagne socialists or centrist scum who couldn't give a poo poo if poor people die in the streets as long as they get a tax on plastic bags/water etc etc i don't think this is necessarily fair - the younger greens in my country are fairly evenly divided between people who a decade ago would've voted soft-left and people who would've voted Liberal. in local politics, the greens keep pushing for basically socially liberal but somewhat regressive stuff like consumption fees and road tolls - and they work hard to increase the temperature of debates to make such issues more important, presumably because they know who their voters are and that they have the ideological leeway to just outright say 'gently caress those people, reactionary car using country dwellers that they are' i think the language of the academic left has become mainstream enough among young educated people and this makes us perceive them as further left than they actually are a lot of the time that said, my axe-grinding about the perfidious greens isn't terribly on-topic for the thread so i'll stop
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Feb 4, 2020 17:26
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Sorry I wasn't clear but that's my opinion on Irish Greens.
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Feb 4, 2020 19:34
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kustomkarkommando posted:Also add Saoirse McHugh to the list of people who should be elected along with Gary Gannon imo A good example of younger greens from page 1
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Feb 4, 2020 19:36
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Sorry I wasn't clear but that's my opinion on Irish Greens. It also matches the England and Wales Greens, who proposed shutting down London City airport immediately and building luxury flats on it. Scottish greens are out and out socialists though.
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Feb 4, 2020 19:44
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lemonadesweetheart posted:A good example of younger greens from page 1 RE this I saw McHugh was doing some campaigning with Ming Flanagan, who sits with the GUE/NGL in europarl as opposed to Greens G/EFA grouping, which I absolutely could not imagine Eamon Ryan ever contemplating which probably does to show the gulf
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Feb 4, 2020 19:54
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TG4 has taken the pulse of the Kingdom https://twitter.com/harrymcgee/status/1224770992268087299?s=19 SF coming top - up 8% Greens at 9% - up 8% - might even get a seat... in Kerry?? FF +7% The Healy Rae alliance -14% - Danny looks dead?
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Feb 4, 2020 20:14
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V. Illych L. posted:i know nothing of the irish greens, but green parties in most of europe are basically urban middle-class educated types with socially liberal attitudes and no fundamental aversion to state action but also no particular commitment to any vision of society - so the seize a lot of less-engaged left-leaning types as well as devouring any old social liberal parties. UBI is a policy which is easy to put out there and hard to properly justify, because it seems to fit well in theory but which needs some hard choices in practice about what to cut or how to restructure society so as to afford it. either of these choices means clarifying some assumptions about how society actually works which really need to be kept fuzzy in order to keep their voting coalition together That’s pretty much same as our greens. Even their commitment to climate issues hinges on how much it will affect middle and upper class people. Their leader was against the new improvements to our public transport by buses because the new routes would have meant some of his constituents losing parts of their massive front gardens to expanded bus lanes.
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Feb 4, 2020 20:20
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kustomkarkommando posted:TG4 has taken the pulse of the Kingdom Aw gently caress if the Healy Raes take a beating I will be so happy
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Feb 4, 2020 20:33
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kustomkarkommando posted:TG4 has taken the pulse of the Kingdom The mens Jacks in the Dáil might finally see a reprieve. Edit: Danny has been notorious for sprouting some utter bollox in the Dáil in the last few years, so not surprised if he gets the boot. Foul Ole Ron fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Feb 4, 2020 |
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Feb 4, 2020 21:52
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lol everyone saying they want to go into government with the greens on the debate - most be rubbing their hands together
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Feb 4, 2020 22:46
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kustomkarkommando posted:must be rubbing their hands together wait, are we doing anti-Semitic tropes in Irish politics as well now?
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Feb 4, 2020 23:02
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kustomkarkommando posted:lol everyone saying they want to go into government with the greens on the debate - most be rubbing their hands together Yeaaaahh because that worked for the greens in the past. Coalitions ruin smaller parties, just look at the pd's, greens and especially Labour. Tbh, smaller parties are better off forming a loose block of opposition rather than forming into a coalition government, citing the above reason.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:30
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Failed Imagineer posted:wait, are we doing anti-Semitic tropes in Irish politics as well now? Alan Shatter tried that as a response to why he was turfed out of the Government. It got almost universally ignored.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:35
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If a smaller party doesn't go into government it will never actually directly influence the way the country is run, though. Particularly when the Irish electoral system, and voting habits, result in coalition governments that give comparatively outsized power to minority partners. Labour, the PDs and the Greens have had far more impact on Ireland than PBP/AAA or the SocDems for example, for that very reason - the minor parties who served in government have actually gotten ministerial positions, and party positions implemented. Its better to go in, get at least some of your core party goals/ideas implemented, and suffer electoral defeat afterwards than to never go in in the first place, if your goal is to actually improve/change the country. Sitting in opposition for decades doesn't achieve anything, other than a few decades of 100k a year salaries for your TDs.
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Feb 5, 2020 00:43
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https://twitter.com/rtepolitics/status/1225018556997390336?s=19 Tipp back on it seems
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Feb 5, 2020 12:44
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