Old War/Dad Power: Clancey chat (both types)

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Old War/Dad Power: Clancey chat (both types)

General Battuta: Feb 7, 2011; This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Aight so the F-15 has a flawless record of 104-0. Where did it get all those kills? I never got the impression that air to air was particularly common, even in Desert Storm. Did the Israelis plunk that many MiGs?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 03:40

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 22:39

Suicide Watch: Sep 8, 2009

General Battuta posted:

Aight so the F-15 has a flawless record of 104-0. Where did it get all those kills? I never got the impression that air to air was particularly common, even in Desert Storm. Did the Israelis plunk that many MiGs?

Well, at least 2 of them were Black Hawks

Possible one F-15C was shot down, but yes most kills were Syrian and Iraqi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle#cite_ref-75

# ? Mar 10, 2020 03:47

gohuskies: Oct 23, 2010; I spend a lot of time making posts to justify why I'm not a self centered shithead that just wants to act like COVID isn't a thing.

For spaceflight fans, you may have listened to the BBC's excellent podcast 13 Minutes To The Moon about the Apollo project and specifically focusing on the 13 minutes from when the Apollo 11 lunar module began powered descent until when it landed. It's really excellent and does deep dives into the technology, the personalities of mission control and the flight team, and dissecting what was happening in the module, in mission control, and over the comms between them, listening to the unbroken recording of the landing comms is really gripping once you've grasped what all they're talking about the whole time.

They are starting a second season about the Apollo 13 flight and I'm certain it will be excellent as well - spaceflight fans would be well served to check it out. If you aren't up for committing to a whole podcast series and want to test the waters, episode 10 is kind of the climax and gives you a lot of the excitement of the landing comms audio.

Link here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xttx2

# ? Mar 10, 2020 06:08

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

General Battuta posted:

Aight so the F-15 has a flawless record of 104-0. Where did it get all those kills? I never got the impression that air to air was particularly common, even in Desert Storm. Did the Israelis plunk that many MiGs?

Eagles got 30 kills in Desert Storm. A few more in Allied Force, probably some during N/S Watch at some point. Then there's Israel.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 06:37

RangerKarl: Oct 7, 2013

I suppose this is a bit of a video game dork question but, a q about the F-14's sensor package vs other modern fighters:

So I play a little DCS, and in the F-14 module, one of the things I've noticed is that the AWG-9 set in TWS AUTO mode will automatically set up target track files for contacts it detects, without any real interference by the RIO. Of course the RIO can step in and do his thing here but it seems the pilot is A-OK to start rippling off Phoenixes from that point on.

My question is, how come this functionality isn't mirrored in over the F-18 and 16 and whatever else supports active radar homing modes?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 06:44

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Was it an F-15E that hit a Mi-24 with a 2000lb bomb while it was airborne or something crazy like that?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 06:46

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

mlmp08 posted:

Man, this is probably the last Smoll Plane Big Missile combo we'll ever see unless someone manages to slap a BVR on a Tucano or something.

That is, unless I'm mistaken and there are smaller fighter jets than Tiger Shark.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 07:57

Stravag: Jun 7, 2009

F5s and f20s are just so adorable

# ? Mar 10, 2020 08:37

CIGNX: May 7, 2006; You can trust me

JcDent posted:

Man, this is probably the last Smoll Plane Big Missile combo we'll ever see unless someone manages to slap a BVR on a Tucano or something.

That is, unless I'm mistaken and there are smaller fighter jets than Tiger Shark.

Maybe the KAI T-50/FA-50? Google says they're about 4 feet shorter than the F-20, and the supposedly the Philippines wants to convert some of their FA-50's to have BVR intercept capabilities using AIM-7 Sparrows.

edit: how about an Aero L-39 derivative? Surely someone has upsold a third-world air force on having giant missiles to make up for their tiny jets.

CIGNX fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Mar 10, 2020

# ? Mar 10, 2020 09:11

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

CIGNX posted:

KAI T-50/FA-50?

Oh my God, it's adooorable

# ? Mar 10, 2020 11:59

glynnenstein: Feb 18, 2014

https://twitter.com/tanooma/status/1236995687893446656/photo/1

# ? Mar 10, 2020 12:14

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

JcDent posted:

Man, this is probably the last Smoll Plane Big Missile combo we'll ever see unless

Harriers are quite small and weigh close to what an an F-20 did, but their chunky shape makes them seem less small. Italy has AMRAAMs on theirs, and the Marines are adding AMRAAMs to their Harriers. Not a dedicated fighter, but a small plane with a modern missile example.

J-8s aren't super small, but they are a single-seat dedicated interceptor, and the most upgraded version can carry a PL-12 missile.

The JF-17 Thunder is pretty small and can carry BVR missiles.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 12:27

Mazz: Dec 12, 2012; Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.

You also have those big fuckoff HVT AAMs Russia and China have continued to develop for shooting at tankers and AWACS. Only seen them on Su-27 derivatives but when you make a Su-27 look average sized you�re a big loving missile.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 12:32

JcDent: May 13, 2013; Give me a rifle, one round, and point me at Berlin!

mlmp08 posted:

The JF-17 Thunder is pretty small and can carry BVR missiles.

How is it as a plane?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 14:21

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

Hush Kit article on the Monino air museum. Would love to visit it one day but for the fact it would involve visiting Russia, and there ain�t no way I�ll ever do that.

https://hushkit.net/2020/03/04/the-wise-report-the-monino-monoliths/

# ? Mar 10, 2020 14:29

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

JcDent posted:

How is it as a plane?

According to Pakistani cinema, it's unbeatable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anv3Y95eL9Q

# ? Mar 10, 2020 14:46

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

priznat posted:

Was it an F-15E that hit a Mi-24 with a 2000lb bomb while it was airborne or something crazy like that?

The -E's only air-to-air kill in Desert Storm.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 14:51

The Iron Rose: May 12, 2012; Cat Army

Suicide Watch posted:

Well, at least 2 of them were Black Hawks

Possible one F-15C was shot down, but yes most kills were Syrian and Iraqi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle#cite_ref-75

genuine question, are friendly fire incidents typically counted in air to air victories/losses?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 15:02

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

joat mon posted:

The -E's only air-to-air kill in Desert Storm.

I forget, was it a dumb bomb or laser guided? If it was just lobbed it was some pretty crazy luck.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 16:16

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

priznat posted:

I forget, was it a dumb bomb or laser guided? If it was just lobbed it was some pretty crazy luck.

The WSO (Bakke/Chewie) posted:

�What the radar was seeing was the rotation of the rotor blades, but it couldn�t hold a lock. So I decided to see if I can see them in the targeting pod.� Chewie saw two of the helicopters, or more correctly their rotors spinning in the LANTIRN pod. So he had to transition almost entirely to the pod, since as Bakke explained �the radar wasn�t much help at that point. Our mindset was turning to a ground attack��

After TB and Chewie directed the other Strike Eagle to remain up in a high-cover and after having received the AWACS confirmation to destroy the enemy helicopters, they armed and selected one of their four GBU-10 Paveway II 2000-lb LGBs (laser guided bombs).

As Bakke himself recalls �TB queries me as to whether I�m good for a release. I�ve got good laser ranging to the target, but I hold off for just a little bit-no technical reason, just a gut feeling. Finally, I call �Cleared to Pickle� and when TB pickles-off 2,000 pounds the aircraft immediately responded by shuttering and lurching upward.�

After having released the bomb TB performed a left designator turn but the GBU-10 time to impact quickly arrived to zero and he believed that the bomb had failed to impact. But at some point the bomb appeared on Chewie display: it was angled nose high, then started down and penetrated through the rotors, and the scintillation of the rotors as they disintegrated was easily discerned in the LANTIRN pod.

The GBU-10 then entered into the cockpit of the helicopter, and while it was coming out of the bottom of the aircraft the fuse delay functioned. Then a tremendous explosion disintegrated the helicopter in a huge fireball.

better source

joat mon fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Mar 10, 2020

# ? Mar 10, 2020 16:51

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Mazz posted:

You also have those big fuckoff HVT AAMs Russia and China have continued to develop for shooting at tankers and AWACS. Only seen them on Su-27 derivatives but when you make a Su-27 look average sized you�re a big loving missile.

Er, are big missiles really needed for shooting at tankers? Strikes me that a big plane full of fuel probably doesn't need a big hit to go up in a fireball.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 17:36

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

RangerKarl posted:

I suppose this is a bit of a video game dork question but, a q about the F-14's sensor package vs other modern fighters:

So I play a little DCS, and in the F-14 module, one of the things I've noticed is that the AWG-9 set in TWS AUTO mode will automatically set up target track files for contacts it detects, without any real interference by the RIO. Of course the RIO can step in and do his thing here but it seems the pilot is A-OK to start rippling off Phoenixes from that point on.

My question is, how come this functionality isn't mirrored in over the F-18 and 16 and whatever else supports active radar homing modes?

Fellow DCS dork, TWS auto is actually INOP at the moment, what you describe is just regular TWS. TWS auto is supposed to adjust scan volume and direction to optimize tracking of "prioritized targets".

# ? Mar 10, 2020 17:36

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

Cythereal posted:

Er, are big missiles really needed for shooting at tankers? Strikes me that a big plane full of fuel probably doesn't need a big hit to go up in a fireball.

Big missile generally mean bigger range. Tankers and AWACS are usually as deep as practically possible in their own airspace.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 17:40

TCD: Nov 13, 2002; Every step, a fucking adventure.

Those other 2 helos must of thought the Americans had some crazy new missile with that 2000 pound airburst.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 18:12

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Between precision air-to-ground munitions, look-down radars, ATGMs as anti-air, and the like, humanity is always finding new and different ways to turn helicopters to scrap.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 18:24

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

mlmp08 posted:

Between precision air-to-ground munitions, look-down radars, ATGMs as anti-air, and the like, humanity is always finding new and different ways to turn helicopters to scrap.

To be fair, so does helicopters.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 18:48

Collateral Damage: Jun 13, 2009

JcDent posted:

Man, this is probably the last Smoll Plane Big Missile combo we'll ever see unless someone manages to slap a BVR on a Tucano or something.

That is, unless I'm mistaken and there are smaller fighter jets than Tiger Shark.

Gripen-C is 30cm shorter (14.1m vs 14.4m for the F-20), however Gripen-D was lengthened to 14.8m.

It still looks funny carrying the RBS-15 anti-ship missile.

Even funnier with the BK90 glide bomb, but that was mothballed in 2012 when Sweden signed the convention on cluster munitions.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 18:53

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

joat mon posted:

better source

gat drat

Also my favourite chunky boi ordinance will always be the JP233 cluster dispenser

# ? Mar 10, 2020 19:09

RangerKarl: Oct 7, 2013

Xakura posted:

Fellow DCS dork, TWS auto is actually INOP at the moment, what you describe is just regular TWS. TWS auto is supposed to adjust scan volume and direction to optimize tracking of "prioritized targets".

Dangit, did Jabbers screw me on this one?

# ? Mar 10, 2020 19:12

Guest2553: Aug 3, 2012

Xakura posted:

To be fair, so does helicopters.

Don't leave out the people who drive them.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 19:13

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

RangerKarl posted:

Dangit, did Jabbers screw me on this one?

Yeah, seems like it. I just skimmed through his awg-9 video, and he quickly explains what it should do, but not that it is not implemented.

Latest from Heatblur is that tws auto and aim-54 updates are coming in the Q1 update, which should hopefully be soon.

# ? Mar 10, 2020 19:50

RangerKarl: Oct 7, 2013

Xakura posted:

Yeah, seems like it. I just skimmed through his awg-9 video, and he quickly explains what it should do, but not that it is not implemented.

Latest from Heatblur is that tws auto and aim-54 updates are coming in the Q1 update, which should hopefully be soon.

Great.

Though I think the original question's premise is still valid; namely, that the AWG-9 IRL can actually auto-prioritize certain tracks and filter them for the RIO's benefit. I suppose whatever filtering algos they use to sieve through the data are so commonplace now they just don't bear any special relevance for marketing/user documentation.

# ? Mar 11, 2020 06:24

Mazz: Dec 12, 2012; Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.

RangerKarl posted:

Great.

Though I think the original question's premise is still valid; namely, that the AWG-9 IRL can actually auto-prioritize certain tracks and filter them for the RIO's benefit. I suppose whatever filtering algos they use to sieve through the data are so commonplace now they just don't bear any special relevance for marketing/user documentation.

EDIT: the link is faulty but look up the APG-77 or 81 and AESAs in general; I�m pretty sure you�re right in that more modern radars just handle that via software refinement that it�s not really a notable feature; the 77 can provide TWS of up to 10 targets each, the 77v1 might�ve improved on that but you won�t find a ton of hard capability info on the 77v1 or 81. This is 6 more than the internal weapons load of the 22 and it can also share this data between 22s or over Link-16, meaning a 4 ship can track 40. They also provide a whole bunch of modes the AWG-9 (and for some, even the APG-71) couldnt touch.

Mazz fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Mar 11, 2020

# ? Mar 11, 2020 06:32

NightGyr: Mar 7, 2005; I � Unicode

Guest2553 posted:

Don't leave out the people who drive them.

Oh ye of little faith.

# ? Mar 11, 2020 07:46

Xakura: Jan 10, 2019; A safety-conscious little mouse!

NightGyr posted:

Oh ye of little faith.

# ? Mar 11, 2020 10:17

MikeCrotch: Nov 5, 2011; I AM UNJUSTIFIABLY PROUD OF MY SPAGHETTI BOLOGNESE RECIPE

YES, IT IS AN INCREDIBLY SIMPLE DISH

NO, IT IS NOT NORMAL TO USE A PEPPERAMI INSTEAD OF MINCED MEAT

YES, THERE IS TOO MUCH SALT IN MY RECIPE

NO, I WON'T STOP SHARING IT

more like BOLLOCKnese

priznat posted:

gat drat

Also my favourite chunky boi ordinance will always be the JP233 cluster dispenser

Use this one weird trick to get shot down by AAA! RAF pilots hate it!

# ? Mar 11, 2020 11:30

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

A comprehensive history of (fictional) MiGs - with illustrations!

https://hushkit.net/2020/02/06/fictional-mig-fighters-and-the-aircraft-that-inspired-them/

# ? Mar 11, 2020 16:17

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

FMguru posted:

A comprehensive history of (fictional) MiGs - with illustrations!

https://hushkit.net/2020/02/06/fictional-mig-fighters-and-the-aircraft-that-inspired-them/

quote:

The Firefox is a splendidly ambitious design, supposed able to achieve Mach 6 and to embody a range of advanced technologies, including thought control of it weapons systems (as long as you can think in Russian). Other claimed characteristics include 2 x 50,000-lb thrust engines, flight at up to 130,000 ft, internal carriage of 6 AA-11 missiles, 2x 23mm cannon and chaff and flare dispensing pods.

I love the idea of making a super-high-tech Mach 6 interceptor and then arming it with only IR missiles.

# ? Mar 11, 2020 22:29