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So they fixed Hard Wired but not Strikers?
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Mar 25, 2020 21:57
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Polarity event is extremely unfun especially if you run a support build of some sort
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Mar 25, 2020 22:13
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^burtle posted:So they fixed Hard Wired but not Strikers? Strikers by itself is not broken. It’s issue is something shared with anything that fires relatively fast.
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Mar 25, 2020 22:22
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yeah strikers is probably related to the hit registration issues. the more people playing together the more the game drops hits so faster weapons lose dps. those dropped hits are considered misses for the striker talent, which messes things up.
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Mar 25, 2020 22:47
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Not that I do not believe you, but why do you get stacks when shooting other stuff ? If it’s a registration issue, that shouldn’t happen either.
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Mar 25, 2020 22:59
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Jose Oquendo posted:Not that I do not believe you, but why do you get stacks when shooting other stuff ? If it’s a registration issue, that shouldn’t happen either. Probably because they don't blank the stack if you get misses. Striker's is kind of unique in requiring you to stay on target.
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Mar 25, 2020 23:01
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So did the TTBK get addressed? I hit just shy of a million armor and got really tired of red trash mobs stripping that away in a couple of seconds.
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Mar 25, 2020 23:13
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Capn Beeb posted:So did the TTBK get addressed? I hit just shy of a million armor and got really tired of red trash mobs stripping that away in a couple of seconds. They reduced damage from enemies by 20%  Trip Report: Skill damage is still garbage. I ran 4 piece hardwired with max rolls, one peice wyvern, one piece china light. Even on 10 second cooldowns with 25% extra skill damage from chest and perfect spike on my gun, killing yellows and purples on challenging is a loving ubearable slog with literally every single skill except the sniper / mortal turret and if I have to play that garbage to actually do damage I'd rather just play all red dps where at least I can carry around some heals. Drone still gets instantly gibbed, even with enemy damage tuned down. Cluster mines still constantly miss. Sticky bomb still only does like 3.5 million damage on way too long a cooldown. Skill damage needs to be tripled or cooldowns need to be brought down to practically instant to make skill dps worth anything at challenging and above. Yes I know that skill healing and CC are very good, but that doesn't mean poo poo when you want to solo with skills or do skill dps. Skills in this game are just so poorly designed it's loving frustrating. I really want to continue to like this game but Massive are making it very hard.
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Mar 26, 2020 00:13
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Skills, if they worked, would be fine. They all suffer from coding/design issues and the enemies are coded to take advantage of that. I've dropped my single-digits-from-optimized skill build in favor of the functional M1A meta. It cooked on Challenging but when shooting dudes with a rifle goes faster, and is more reliable in Heroic, there's not much reason to go back.Malcolm Excellent posted:What kind of punishment could they even deliver? Ban people from a PVE game? It'd certainly fit their Bad Decisions(c) style, but realistically they have nothing to gain from it. There's a few clowns on reddit who believe it violates the explicit suffering=reward contract you make with videogames and they're the only ones who will cheer. The bug, in one form or another, has been around so long that you're talking about banning a shitload of people (thereby ensuring they drop the game) just to make a point.
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Mar 26, 2020 00:41
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Half the time I throw a blinder Firefly from cover it explodes for no reason. Half the time I shoot a firechem it explodes in my face.
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Mar 26, 2020 00:50
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Lmao I have a blockade on the Theater, and no way to clear it, as I don't get the button prompt. Love all the stupid rear end bugs in this loving game
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Mar 26, 2020 01:32
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20% damage reduction my rear end, you still die really quickly even on challenging and getting a lit match anywhere near you is still a death sentence. Solo play is such a slog now.
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Mar 26, 2020 01:48
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Nah they definitely lowered at least incoming gun damage. I can actually flank and poo poo without dying immediately to a red guy's SMG spray. So either they didn't adjust hazard damage or that hazard damage is already so high to begin with that a 20% reduction means gently caress all. Either makes sense to me because it's Massive.  4 player Heroic at least feels less like a slog than before. The combined lower incoming damage/scaling is noticeable though still feels a tad high with elites.
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Mar 26, 2020 02:22
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chami posted:20% damage reduction my rear end, you still die really quickly even on challenging and getting a lit match anywhere near you is still a death sentence. Solo play is such a slog now. I love when my shield gets stabbed and I bleed out in about 3 seconds and die. Worst enemy type in the game
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Mar 26, 2020 05:40
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Frustrated posted:Trip Report: Skill damage is still garbage. I ran 4 piece hardwired with max rolls, one peice wyvern, one piece china light. ditch hardwired. The loss of the second attribute per piece really stings. I have a pure highend skill build (demolitionist, 6 yellows, all pieces with skill haste/skill damage) which does well over a million more per sticky than yours and my CDs for it are pretty short so I'm not losing out much there either. I find cluster/artillery turret to be the best setup, I run cluster/BFB when the turret just isn't happening (tight indoor stuff, etc) and I don't even use my perfect spike gun that much because I'm usually holding emeline's guard to constantly get healing off kills. It's not a solo build but by no means does it need triple damage or instant CDs to pull its weight in a group. If you can squeeze it in, Acosta's overcharge ability will go off when the grenade is thrown, you don't even have to wait for damage. Start a fight with a grenade and dump your overcharged damage skills out and that's it for the entire spawn wave. Repeat for opening every fight. my skill dps easily holds up on challenging, haven't tried enough heroic to say but it did alright during a Roosevelt heroic run the other day. Because it is so heavily weighted towards explosives heavy armored dudes will own you completely, but you will wipe the floor with everything else. Psion fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 05:56
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Did a bunch of Heroic content tonight in a duo. With two people I could really feel the difference in two ways. Enemies definitely had more hp. I couldn't one shot reds with a bakers dozen headshots any longer, and elites definitely took one to two extra bullets. I could at least still kill a heavy in one clip with a 150 round lmg. On the bright side I was running glass cannon and I didn't seem to die quite as often. A lot of things that one shot me previously appeared to bring me down to a sliver of health but I survived. Fire and Bleed still sucked, but I didn't get one shot by it, I could usually roll out of fire and get off a health pack before I died. I'm not a huge fan of increasing enemy hp but I'll take not getting one shot in return. edit: Psion posted:ditch hardwired. The loss of the second attribute per piece really stings. I have a pure highend skill build (demolitionist, 6 yellows, all pieces with skill haste/skill damage) which does well over a million more per sticky than yours and my CDs for it are pretty short so I'm not losing out much there either. I find cluster/artillery turret to be the best setup, I run cluster/BFB when the turret just isn't happening (tight indoor stuff, etc) and I don't even use my perfect spike gun that much because I'm usually holding emeline's guard to constantly get healing off kills. It's not a solo build but by no means does it need triple damage or instant CDs to pull its weight in a group. I tried running 2 Hanna-U, 2 China Light, 1 Wyvern and several different backpacks. I tried acostas, the one with perfect +25% skill damage on skill kill, and perfect combined arms. It all still felt bad. Granted, I stated before that I really dislike the turret. It's just not fun to me, so mortar and sniper turret being the only viable skill damage abilities doesn't exactly make me happy. I get that they are good, but I don't like that playstyle. Also, 5 million damage on a sticky that's easy to miss is still garbage even when it has a 15 second cooldown. The biggest problem is I can crit for 3.5 million damage every single shot on a bakers dozen full red build. My LMG crits for 800k a hit with strained going. The amount of DPS a red build puts out compared to a full skill build is just insane. Add in the utility of a heal and rez and free repositioning without taking a huge dps loss, it's a no brainer for harder content. You know what doesn't bug out constantly or require all sorts of janky positioning? Just shooting a gun. I don't know if skills were op prior to TU8 or what, but warlords really just double hosed them. Massive was way too conservative with the scaling on 6 skill tier for most abilities (for example the striker drone gets 120% damage at skill tier 6. There were mods that gave it +500% damage prior to TU8! Also, making every single enemy an olympic gymnast who auto targets drones to wipe them out 5 seconds into spawning just doubles down on the frustration. I just want to play striker drone and oxidizer and sticky bomb and seeker mines and do reasonable dps at higher levels. Unfortunately it's very unlikely that will ever happen with the current state of balance. Frustrated fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 06:00
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Malcolm Excellent posted:What kind of punishment could they even deliver? Ban people from a PVE game? I thought that the DPS bug was also able to be used in PVP, so that's probably the focus. Be hard to punish in PVE except maybe those on the leaderboards with insane times. But honestly your right, why bother in a PVE game. Honestly I cheesed it and it made it pretty fun for a few nights to feel like a god.
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Mar 26, 2020 07:01
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Good news you can carry lovely pubbies in challenging content again! True patriot is seriously kicking rear end after this update and I'm preferring it over the rifle/shield build for both groups and solo. You provide great support with heals, a damage debuff/buff, CC, and you're pretty sturdy with good damage output because you can just facetank a lot of damage while you shoot. Thanks again ZombyDog for posting this build: ZombyDog posted:2nd. Gunner. I rolled a 3rd piece to red for more damage, but having the 3 x protection to elites is amazing. It clears Heroic missions with ease. I use different weapons though, I like Baker's Dozen for long range and Pestilence for everything else. The DoT also functions as a poor man's Patience while you reload since it heals you up too! Edit: And to clarify that was without the DPS bug. Not sure what it is but I'd be tempted to get through the loving polarity event with it
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Mar 26, 2020 08:08
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I've got my elite protection up to 34 now on my true patriot shield/tech hive build and you really can just stand toe to toe with a big dude and shoot him in the face with a pistol until he falls. Its pretty satisfying. Just have to find a wall to back up against. I'm not sure how to make the tech hive refresh my shield faster though. If its even possible.
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Mar 26, 2020 09:33
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Psion posted:It's not a solo build but by no means does it need triple damage or instant CDs to pull its weight in a group. That's pretty much the context here. Any group that can sort of do damage will roll through Challenging and if they actually have decent gear will get through Heroic ok. There's plenty of youtube "Check out this overpowered build!" videos that should have a giant IN MY DEDICATED GROUP IT WORKS disclaimer flashing the entire time because they're usually awful. Frustrated posted:Granted, I stated before that I really dislike the turret. It's just not fun to me, so mortar and sniper turret being the only viable skill damage abilities doesn't exactly make me happy. I get that they are good, but I don't like that playstyle. Also, 5 million damage on a sticky that's easy to miss is still garbage even when it has a 15 second cooldown. If you don't like turrets then yeah, you won't like skill setups currently. The sniper and mortar turrets are the least buggy, though that is a low bar, way to deal damage. Firestarter and seekers are good but you need to pair them with a more consistent damage source and that's the turrets. It sucks, I don't like it, but welp. I spent a stupid amount of time grinding out my skill set to where it is and it's on the shelf outside of gimmick stuff like this polarity event. quote:I don't know if skills were op prior to TU8 or what, but warlords really just double hosed them. There's the meme about "easily soloing Heroics" that didn't actually happen, but in general yes with fairly maxed skill haste/damage and BTSU gloves and a bleed hive you could plow through missions. Enemies still could easily avoid them, but the AI has been changed since TU8 and now they're back to running all over. More movement equals more bugged out seekers. In all fairness everything, through nerfs or bugs, got hit with a stick. The M1A meta right now wouldn't be a thing if guns worked correctly but here we are.
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Mar 26, 2020 11:22
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I'm 2 pieces away from having my true patriot tank build more or less fully optimal. I just need a patriot mask with either a good armor or crit chance god roll and a pair of contractors gloves, which will lower my crit chance compared to the ceska mask I'm running but will probably be an overall increase in dps. I keep trying other builds and they're fun and all, but I always wind up back at true patriot. I think I might stop trying new builds and just start sticking to this one permanently outside of maybe switching to my healer build for legendaries.
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Mar 26, 2020 11:34
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So are these polarity challenges only doable this week? Because one of them includes taking over a control point, but they haven't fixed the control point reset bug yet afaik, so...
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Mar 26, 2020 12:37
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GhostDog posted:So are these polarity challenges only doable this week? Because one of them includes taking over a control point, but they haven't fixed the control point reset bug yet afaik, so... I sure hope not. How many times have the control points bugged out now? And for how long? It's like they can't get the fix to stick.
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Mar 26, 2020 12:58
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Doesn't the invasion flip some of them?
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Mar 26, 2020 13:05
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Gish posted:I thought that the DPS bug was also able to be used in PVP, so that's probably the focus. Be hard to punish in PVE except maybe those on the leaderboards with insane times. But honestly your right, why bother in a PVE game. The insane times could also be from the rogue agents resetting the clock glitch. I had a run that was just about 9 minutes on Roosevelt Island heroic thanks to them showing up near the end, wiping the team and us not having to redo the encounter, and starting with a fresh timer. If they punish people with bonkers times chances are they are going to get a lot of the wrong people.
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Mar 26, 2020 13:37
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Quill posted:I sure hope not. How many times have the control points bugged out now? And for how long? It's like they can't get the fix to stick. Reset your manhunt progress to flip all the control points in the manhunt zones. It will not void your overall progress if you already beat Neptune.
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Mar 26, 2020 13:41
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Frustrated posted:You know what doesn't bug out constantly or require all sorts of janky positioning? Just shooting a gun. ARs would like to have a word with you
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Mar 26, 2020 15:15
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SmallpoxJenkins posted:I like how one of the challenges is to kill someone of a different polarity, but you do so little damage it'd take loving forever to kill even a base red bar. I don't know if it's only the sniper turret or if it's any skill, but I've been getting credit for challenges without shooting my own gun a single time.
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Mar 26, 2020 15:24
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TastyLemonDrops posted:I don't know if it's only the sniper turret or if it's any skill, but I've been getting credit for challenges without shooting my own gun a single time. Any skill that can kill something will count as long as you’re holding the gun with the opposite charge of what dies.
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Mar 26, 2020 15:30
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So yeah the more I read this thread (big mistake, I know), the more I think removing Weapon Damage % as a stat from the game entirely would help mitigate a lot of the problems you guys have in general. It's a bad stat and largely unnecessary. It'd smooth out the group scaling a lot easier, and you wouldn't have to account for ridiculous glass cannon (as opposed to Glass Cannon) all-red builds because they're boring and kind of a dumb trap anyway. Now, I'd leave in type % primary stats on weapons, because I like some variety, and I'd just change Weapon Damage % as a gear primary to I dunno Crit Damage or something and cap it at like 6. That'd allow for an all-red build but you'd have to necessarily account for needing a higher Crit Chance and create a tradeoff like the other two stats have. And alla ya'lls big numbers guys can still get ridiculous numbers popping out if you want. Then the enemy rebalance doesn't need to account as much for the far right of the bell curve and the filthy casuals like me can have more fun while keeping Challenging and Heroic still pretty hard! Haha, this is just me musing idly on some dead forum because my eyes don't work well enough to read my tv and improve my Pistol Build so instead I make them worse by staring at a much closer screen.
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Mar 26, 2020 16:39
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Is there a DPS calculator available where I can type in the damage, rpms and reload times to help me figure out which is the better gun. I frankly don't have the head for it just by looking at it. I have found some from pre WoNY, but I know some things have changed and those I saw never factored in reload to give me a dps.
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Mar 26, 2020 16:52
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Casnorf posted:So yeah the more I read this thread (big mistake, I know), the more I think removing Weapon Damage % as a stat from the game entirely would help mitigate a lot of the problems you guys have in general. It's a bad stat and largely unnecessary. It'd smooth out the group scaling a lot easier, and you wouldn't have to account for ridiculous glass cannon (as opposed to Glass Cannon) all-red builds because they're boring and kind of a dumb trap anyway. Now, I'd leave in type % primary stats on weapons, because I like some variety, and I'd just change Weapon Damage % as a gear primary to I dunno Crit Damage or something and cap it at like 6. That'd allow for an all-red build but you'd have to necessarily account for needing a higher Crit Chance and create a tradeoff like the other two stats have. And alla ya'lls big numbers guys can still get ridiculous numbers popping out if you want. Then the enemy rebalance doesn't need to account as much for the far right of the bell curve and the filthy casuals like me can have more fun while keeping Challenging and Heroic still pretty hard! I mean, our biggest complaint right now is that the game is forcing people to go all in on a stat to be even competitive in harder difficulties, while before the expansion you could be a hybrid player with a lot of tools at your disposal. Pretty much all builds have problems right now (DPS with hit registration issues, armor numbers being too low for enemy damage, skills not doing enough damage/failing constantly). They basically balanced enemy HP around a full red build, balanced enemy damage around a full blue build and balanced enemy threat around a full CC build. So we ended up with enemies that hit too hard, take too long to kill and just run all over the place throwing skills nonstop. If they start tuning things down a bit then hybrid builds will be back again. Everyone is sorta annoyed that pubbies are now a liability due to group scaling, pretty much everyone is complaining about the game not being casual friendly anymore.
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Mar 26, 2020 16:56
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OgNar posted:Is there a DPS calculator available where I can type in the damage, rpms and reload times to help me figure out which is the better gun. Yeah the one on your phone. Multiple ROF by damage. Compare numbers. Honestly I just ignore the reload times. They're more or less same-ish across different weapon types (so, belt LMG vs mag LMG vs AR vs SMG vs bolt rifle vs mag rifle) so really it's more about how the particular weapon plays. ARs are about mag dumping and then ducking into cover for a reload for a sec, while LMGs are about laying a base of fire then loving off for a while to reload. I look at the mag stat more as how the flow of the engagement goes, rather than a key component in a theoretical max DPS. Really you're almost never just mag dumping into a target. This game is way, way more about burst than sustained DPS, so mag stuff is more about how those bursts happen.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:00
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nerdz posted:I mean, our biggest complaint right now is that the game is forcing people to go all in on a stat to be even competitive in harder difficulties, while before the expansion you could be a hybrid player with a lot of tools at your disposal. Pretty much all builds have problems right now (DPS with hit registration issues, armor numbers being too low for enemy damage, skills not doing enough damage/failing constantly). To be honest, we're already a good way there. I'd say Heroic mobs still need some tuning so that they're not giant blobs of HP but the 4player health scaling seems a lot less aggressive. Also running the invasion on Heroic with goons yesterday, people only seemed to go down if they over extended or tried to play close range. Status effect damage is still bullshit but incoming damage wise it did feel less punishing. I don't really agree at all with removing weapon damage as a stat but they can definitely stand to tone it down on the high end of difficulty so that low/non red builds can fire their guns without feeling worthless.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:01
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Have you tried: Angry Swarm of Bees
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Mar 26, 2020 17:07
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Finally tried out the banshee pulse and I definitely understand why so many people run it. It's a very fun skill and is pretty reliable cc on a short cooldown. I might consider running it over the reviver hive since the bulwark shield already provides a lot of utility for reviving teammates. I'm also a big fan of the riot foam nades, I never used my concussion nades anyways and having a ton of cc is pretty nice on a tank support build.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:09
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nerdz posted:I mean, our biggest complaint right now is that the game is forcing people to go all in on a stat to be even competitive in harder difficulties, while before the expansion you could be a hybrid player with a lot of tools at your disposal. Pretty much all builds have problems right now (DPS with hit registration issues, armor numbers being too low for enemy damage, skills not doing enough damage/failing constantly). You do realize you're agreeing with me, right? The knock-on consequences of removing Weapon Damage % entirely from the game mitigate most if not all of the other issues you're describing. I think it's the linchpin. It's not a balance issue. Balance isn't a good word for what's going on here anyway (my thoughts on how balance does not mean what people who play games think it means aside). It's that there's a "best" option, and the correct way to mitigate the problems created by having a best option is to remove that option. People, players, are generally pretty creative and adaptable, so I'm sure they'll latch on to the next thing, but that one might be more of tweak than a straight removal. I mean, if it were up to me, we'd see soon enough.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:30
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Casnorf posted:It's that there's a "best" option, and the correct way to mitigate the problems created by having a best option is to remove that option. no, it's not. look to the removal of DTE and the part where Massive still hasn't gotten that tuned up right as an example of why your logic is not as sound as you think. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 26, 2020 |
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Mar 26, 2020 17:43
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Yeah upon removing DTE, they just reworked a few items to basically be like DTE, but even better because they're multiplicative damage sources that affect PVE *and* PVP. We still have some ways to go.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:45
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| # ? Apr 27, 2024 03:30 |
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Casnorf posted:You do realize you're agreeing with me, right? The knock-on consequences of removing Weapon Damage % entirely from the game mitigate most if not all of the other issues you're describing. I think it's the linchpin. It's not a balance issue. Balance isn't a good word for what's going on here anyway (my thoughts on how balance does not mean what people who play games think it means aside). It's that there's a "best" option, and the correct way to mitigate the problems created by having a best option is to remove that option. People, players, are generally pretty creative and adaptable, so I'm sure they'll latch on to the next thing, but that one might be more of tweak than a straight removal. I mean, if it were up to me, we'd see soon enough. Yeah that was my point. You came here like you had a novel idea and everyone are tryhards who want big number when pretty much everyone here is a casual player and annoyed that the game now requires more coordination and building. Removing weapon damage is a bit too extreme, but reducing the delta from 0 DPS investment to max would be a good starting point. They could even keep that if other builds without damage investment could do enough weapon damage to matter. I've already managed to build semi hybrid tank/skill builds that have a single red core+offensive minors and talents who did 2-3x as much damage as build with zero weapon damage anything. I think tuning enemy HP down will do half of the work, hitreg fixes will fix 30% and a weapon damage/exotic rebalance could deal with the rest.
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Mar 26, 2020 17:45
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